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I like wards codexs, so I'm in for a treat, sucks to be you guys

I really dont see how Necrons changing from "We want to harvest almost all life for our master Ctans" to "We shall once again rule the whole galaxy and might occasionally let a civilization or two survive so that it can serve our needs" make the 40k SO much less grimdark? And can people stop with this crap about Necrons employing market economics. For all we know they are trading invaluable intelligence for useless tech to some duped Inquistor ect...

bombboy1252 wrote:I like wards codexs, so I'm in for a treat, sucks to be you guys

Not sure if troll, or just plain stupid...


And it does make 40K less grimdark because when you see eerie green lights, you don't have to panic because it may be a diplomatic committee.

Remember the good old times?



Guess I will start new one soon...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Void__Dragon wrote:
I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree. Other than Fulgrim and maybe Lorgar, I wouldn't say the traitor primarchs were especially weak-minded.

Especially not Magnus or Guiliman.

Lord Rogukiel wrote:

bombboy1252 wrote:I like wards codexs, so I'm in for a treat, sucks to be you guys

Not sure if troll, or just plain stupid...


And it does make 40K less grimdark because when you see eerie green lights, you don't have to panic because it may be a diplomatic committee.

Actually it makes it more grimdark. Now you won't know if it's a trading group, or a bunch of raiders. Adds a sense of suspense.
There are different necron factions now. Not all of them are diplomatic.

I'll wait til the Codex is actually out before deciding how it goes. And even then it probably won't change things alot. They've already established a "highly variable" attitude for the Necrons depending on various things (number of times reborn, etc.) so the apparent difference between Old Codex style Necrons and the new would just be chalked up to those things. And unless they explicitly say, flat out NO THERE ARE NO C'TAN LEFT WHATSOEVER THE EMPEROR SAYETH SO there's always the possibility of C'Tan remaining and the 'Crons as a whole are unaware of them.

And just because some Necrons aren't evil soulless doombot kill machines doesn't mean things aren't grim and foreboding for the Imperium. It's not like the Orks, Tyranids, Chaos, or umpteen-kajillion various xenos threats have exactly gone and vanished.... plenty of scope for the Imperium to be fighting for its life (against itself and against outside threats, both.)

Besides, from what I have been hearing and reading, it looks like this is just another case of 40K descending back into its fantasy roots, after a fashion (judging by the names and stuff.) Which feels odd after several editions spent trying to get AWAY From those roots and make 40K more distinctive or something. but I guess we're getting space skelton/liches/mummies and magick and such. Who knows maybe Space Dwarves are just around the corner...

Connor MacLeod wrote:Who knows maybe Space Dwarves are just around the corner...

They will never bring back the Squats...

Deathly Angel wrote:

Connor MacLeod wrote:Who knows maybe Space Dwarves are just around the corner...

They will never bring back the Squats...

Yes, never....

Lord Rogukiel wrote:Not sure if troll, or just plain stupid...

Matt Ward codices, whatever you think of the lore, have excellently written, varied, and interesting rules and playstyles.

Melissia wrote:

Lord Rogukiel wrote:Not sure if troll, or just plain stupid...

Matt Ward codices, whatever you think of the lore, have excellently written, varied, and interesting rules and playstyles.

Agreed. The lore is a touch confusing at times since it isn't always clear what he is getting at but IMO it's actually quite good...

purplefood wrote:

Melissia wrote:

Lord Rogukiel wrote:Not sure if troll, or just plain stupid...

Matt Ward codices, whatever you think of the lore, have excellently written, varied, and interesting rules and playstyles.

Agreed. The lore is a touch confusing at times since it isn't always clear what he is getting at but IMO it's actually quite good...

I don't know if you're serious or just trollin'. Either way he's messed up necrons for me so...

Lord Rogukiel wrote:

purplefood wrote:

Melissia wrote:

Lord Rogukiel wrote:Not sure if troll, or just plain stupid...

Matt Ward codices, whatever you think of the lore, have excellently written, varied, and interesting rules and playstyles.

Agreed. The lore is a touch confusing at times since it isn't always clear what he is getting at but IMO it's actually quite good...

I don't know if you're serious or just trollin'. Either way he's messed up necrons for me so...

I'm serious. All of the people claiming Mat Ward's fluff is bad are looking at one interpretation, if you look at it a different way it's not actually that bad.

purplefood wrote:

Lord Rogukiel wrote:

purplefood wrote:

Melissia wrote:

Lord Rogukiel wrote:Not sure if troll, or just plain stupid...

Matt Ward codices, whatever you think of the lore, have excellently written, varied, and interesting rules and playstyles.

Agreed. The lore is a touch confusing at times since it isn't always clear what he is getting at but IMO it's actually quite good...

I don't know if you're serious or just trollin'. Either way he's messed up necrons for me so...

I'm serious. All of the people claiming Mat Ward's fluff is bad are looking at one interpretation, if you look at it a different way it's not actually that bad.

Alright sire Purplefood, I will attempt to look at the fluff from an objective point of view. BA necron alliance grumble grumble

Lord Rogukiel wrote:

purplefood wrote:

Lord Rogukiel wrote:

purplefood wrote:

Melissia wrote:

Lord Rogukiel wrote:Not sure if troll, or just plain stupid...

Matt Ward codices, whatever you think of the lore, have excellently written, varied, and interesting rules and playstyles.

Agreed. The lore is a touch confusing at times since it isn't always clear what he is getting at but IMO it's actually quite good...

I don't know if you're serious or just trollin'. Either way he's messed up necrons for me so...

I'm serious. All of the people claiming Mat Ward's fluff is bad are looking at one interpretation, if you look at it a different way it's not actually that bad.

Alright sire Purplefood, I will attempt to look at the fluff from an objective point of view. BA necron alliance grumble grumble

Please, it was a ceasefire if it was anything. The wording is poor but after fighting the Tyranids neither side was in any shape to fight the other.

purplefood wrote:

Lord Rogukiel wrote:

purplefood wrote:

Melissia wrote:

Lord Rogukiel wrote:Not sure if troll, or just plain stupid...

Matt Ward codices, whatever you think of the lore, have excellently written, varied, and interesting rules and playstyles.

Agreed. The lore is a touch confusing at times since it isn't always clear what he is getting at but IMO it's actually quite good...

I don't know if you're serious or just trollin'. Either way he's messed up necrons for me so...

I'm serious. All of the people claiming Mat Ward's fluff is bad are looking at one interpretation, if you look at it a different way it's not actually that bad.

When you have to phrase it as not that bad, it's still kind of bad. Though I do see merit in some changes that matt ward makes. Even the brofisting. It's done as a way to give you more fluffy ways to play on the table top. Your necrons, but your buddy's BA. Now you have a fluffy reason to team up in a apoc game. Though I can still see how people get mad by the change.

I heard the Squats ARE coming back in the next Tau codex, but we will see i guess

So, what follows here is pure speculation on my part, but maybe you have your own thoughts about those things, or maybe you just want to flame me for mixing up "facts"

What i don't like about the new codex "rumours" (yes i will still call them rumours until i read it myself) is:

- That it might change how i feel about the necrons. Now they are this unstoppable, merciless army of killerrobots on the outside, but if you look deeper you see the tragedy of a civilization lost to hate and envy, enslaved to forever do the bidding of their unloving gods, never to rest in peace. And i really liked that tragic touch. It somehow made them creepier

- No C'tan left after the war against the old ones? Sooo..
Dragon
The emperor never threw the Dragon on mars, the dragon never influenced the mechanicum that got stationed there and they never made such big leaps in building stuff..where did the ships and the equipment come from after old night?

The Deceiver
He never got to cause the war that lost the IoM the starbase that could destroy C'tan (= Extremely powerful). That means we still have it? Can we pewpew stuff with it and win the universe now?

The Outsider
Did he still eat the other C'tan? Wasn't that AFTER the fall of the old ones? So the eldar god of the harlequins never made him do that, so there are alot more gods around to unleash now? Also, who inhabits his Dyson sphere? I call DIBS!

Nightbringer
His backstory was that he (or his deeds? His “presence”? I only recall the result) implemented the concept of “Death” (or the Reaper) in most sentient species subconsciousness.
So..noones afraid of the reaper now? : (

Uriel Ventris/ Pasanius
Eh..yes..*book removed from BL booklist* xD

Sorry for my bad english btw ^-^d

I think there are still some Ctan running around, so that they don't actually have to change the dragon or anyone.

Besides, it could simply be a shard of said beings, rather than the whole thing.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Lord Rogukiel wrote:

bombboy1252 wrote:I like wards codexs, so I'm in for a treat, sucks to be you guys

Not sure if troll, or just plain stupid...


And it does make 40K less grimdark because when you see eerie green lights, you don't have to panic because it may be a diplomatic committee.

Actually it makes it more grimdark. Now you won't know if it's a trading group, or a bunch of raiders. Adds a sense of suspense.
There are different necron factions now. Not all of them are diplomatic.

But you do lose the level of terror that goes with them in the Cain books, where it's basically 'see green, run away and nuke from orbit'.

I think it's an improvement, since the old fluff really had them tied down. It was basically, unstoppable omnicidal robots will eventually fully awaken and kill everyone. The 40k setting is in stasis because everything is always on the knife's edge of utter grimdarkness, but Necrons had dialed that up to a silly point where you really couldn't progress a story at all with them because to do so would basically lead to the fall of the Imperium. All the other armies at least had a slight amount of wiggle room in their setting.

Lord Rogukiel wrote:

bombboy1252 wrote:I like wards codexs, so I'm in for a treat, sucks to be you guys

Not sure if troll, or just plain stupid...

Can't tell if troll, or just doesn't like other peoples opinions....

iDevour wrote:Nightbringer
His backstory was that he (or his deeds? His “presence”? I only recall the result) implemented the concept of “Death” (or the Reaper) in most sentient species subconsciousness.
So..noones afraid of the reaper now? : (

I got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell.

Lord Rogukiel wrote:I hate this fluff so much already. It's fething ridiculous. Necrons with a sense of market economy?

Oh, and every necron lord is out for himself but the C'tan seem to controlling everything. Now that just doesn't make any sense. If they're controlling everything, then why would they make every necron lord an individualistic git?

And working with living races just goes against all the fluff ever written in any edition about necrons. Who wrote this crap?

Competing lords that are slaved to a C'tan isn't necessarily a bad thing. I haven't read this 'fluff', but you can look at a communist/socialist model where you are just judged on production let's say, and then you wind up with more shoes than feet one month but no milk, and next month milk but no shoes. A market system or competition system means you have to change to meet the needs of the local populace. You cannot just endlessly do one thing or the other, you have to react in a way that is advantageous to you.

As to who does it make them like, maybe the Tau at best. Imperium hates all aliens and wants to trade with none of them, Tyranids don't trade, Eldar deem all non Eldar as below them and don't exactly run around trading, Orcs shoot first because trading is for 'umies', Dark Eldar would rather just steal it.... really only the Tau say 'let's trade and get the best from everyone to make ourselves better'.

Engaging in some trade works as inflitration. You can observe and mimic your foe (gee, flayed ones anyone?), know their technological strengths and deficiencies, and you also ensure you are getting fresh/new ideas in to maintain your technical superiority (the US didn't invent radar, for example, but built the first radar resistant plane in the F117a in the 70s).

I don't mind the changes. These changes, that is. I'm afraid of the future for 40k. With each codex having more and more rediculous fluff and changes to the established storyline I wonder if Matt Ward will bring the whole thing down. We have brofisting enemies, grey knights who can do ANYTHING, CC loving Space Wolves using more heavy weapons than the tau... It all seems so silly compared to the game that got me interested in wargming.

I miss the old ways. I liked that some races had some mystery involved.

Well Orks will trade services (fighting) for goods (guns, just make sure you don't give them guns and ammo at the same time), and while the Imperium as a whole has a 'xenos bad' policy, the reality varies on a planet to planet basis, usually dependent on relative distance to an Inquisition stronghold and the trading partner in quesiton. Plus there's always Rogue Traders.

Eldar would not think the Necrons are below them though. They're the same 'age' as a species, however their past (way past) history would mean that trade is unlikely.

Maniac_nmt wrote:

As to who does it make them like, maybe the Tau at best. Imperium hates all aliens and wants to trade with none of them, Tyranids don't trade, Eldar deem all non Eldar as below them and don't exactly run around trading, Orcs shoot first because trading is for 'umies', Dark Eldar would rather just steal it.... really only the Tau say 'let's trade and get the best from everyone to make ourselves better'.

Engaging in some trade works as inflitration. You can observe and mimic your foe (gee, flayed ones anyone?), know their technological strengths and deficiencies, and you also ensure you are getting fresh/new ideas in to maintain your technical superiority (the US didn't invent radar, for example, but built the first radar resistant plane in the F117a in the 70s).

Trade? Rogue traders are entitled to trade with non-humans...
Plus, the stuff the inquisition/GK use, that isn't of IoM origin... I'd suggest to rethink the 'chart' of trade-partners you seem to have in mind.

Necrons do not have to infiltrate. But if, they could use small things, things ignored in general like scarabs. Such a little spy may get anywhere..
OtOH the hints on new fluff also seems on a course to "necrons want to rule" and thus expect tribute, ie free stuff, not to 'pay' for something inferior from the younger races.

daveNYC wrote:Well Orks will trade services (fighting) for goods (guns, just make sure you don't give them guns and ammo at the same time), and while the Imperium as a whole has a 'xenos bad' policy, the reality varies on a planet to planet basis, usually dependent on relative distance to an Inquisition stronghold and the trading partner in quesiton. Plus there's always Rogue Traders.

Eldar would not think the Necrons are below them though. They're the same 'age' as a species, however their past (way past) history would mean that trade is unlikely.

Afaik the necrons are as old as the OldOnes, and they were the ones who "created" the Eldar.
So the Necrons should be older..or did i miss something?

iDevour wrote:

daveNYC wrote:Well Orks will trade services (fighting) for goods (guns, just make sure you don't give them guns and ammo at the same time), and while the Imperium as a whole has a 'xenos bad' policy, the reality varies on a planet to planet basis, usually dependent on relative distance to an Inquisition stronghold and the trading partner in quesiton. Plus there's always Rogue Traders.

Eldar would not think the Necrons are below them though. They're the same 'age' as a species, however their past (way past) history would mean that trade is unlikely.

Afaik the necrons are as old as the OldOnes, and they were the ones who "created" the Eldar.
So the Necrons should be older..or did i miss something?

Older but not by much i'd say... at least not by much relative to how old they are.

iDevour wrote:

daveNYC wrote:Well Orks will trade services (fighting) for goods (guns, just make sure you don't give them guns and ammo at the same time), and while the Imperium as a whole has a 'xenos bad' policy, the reality varies on a planet to planet basis, usually dependent on relative distance to an Inquisition stronghold and the trading partner in quesiton. Plus there's always Rogue Traders.

Eldar would not think the Necrons are below them though. They're the same 'age' as a species, however their past (way past) history would mean that trade is unlikely.

Afaik the necrons are as old as the OldOnes, and they were the ones who "created" the Eldar.
So the Necrons should be older..or did i miss something?

Necrons are older, true. Unless something really goes off the rails with the new fluff.

I meant it just to say that the contempt that Eldar feel for younger races wouldn't be an issue.

DeffDred wrote:I don't mind the changes. These changes, that is. I'm afraid of the future for 40k. With each codex having more and more rediculous fluff and changes to the established storyline I wonder if Matt Ward will bring the whole thing down. We have brofisting enemies, grey knights who can do ANYTHING, CC loving Space Wolves using more heavy weapons than the tau... It all seems so silly compared to the game that got me interested in wargming.

I miss the old ways. I liked that some races had some mystery involved.

Sounds like you need a break from the internet's exaggerations.

New necrons appear to have had power levels buffed past GKs for fluff. World engines crap upon entire imperial fleets and can withstand countless volleys of exterminatus weapons AFTER shields drop.

What's more, is that new crons seem to have gone from sleepy robots to empire waking up and unifying. Given the fact that the silent king looked at the entire nid threat and deduced his race could kill them id say crons still are beefed up.

Srsly cant wait for the fluff! So far it sounds like a great addition imo