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Chesh wrote:Aaaaaaaaaand, we're right back to why more women don't play 40k.

Time spent away from "society at large" leads to a lack of social skills, which leads to awkward conversation, which leads to more time spent away from "society at large". It's a big downward spiral from there - or a small one, depending.

I think you've switched cause and effect. Because the tabletop game genre in general doesn't like to ostracize, we tend to gather and interest people who have been socially ostracized, for whatever reason. Poor socialization and hygiene will be overlooked so long as the individual can play the game. And a poor attitude towards nonwhite nonmales is often present.

When was the last time you said "You're a jerk, I won't play you"?

I think it doesn't help that GW believes they cannot expand into the women's demographic. So if they might as well make boy eyecandy because they have given up on getting women into the hobby. The company will be slow to change this attitude, especially since there are no women who work for GW in any creative capacity.

Mordiggian wrote:When was the last time you said "You're a jerk, I won't play you"?

Last Saturday actually, at my FLGS when TFG showed up.

Mordiggian wrote:I think you've switched cause and effect.

The fun thing about downward spirals or catch .22s is that attributing a specific cause is like trying to figure out whether the chicken or the egg came first.

Also, since when did the tabletop game genre "not like to ostracize"? Just like any other society or subculture we have our cliques and one of our absolute favorite things is to ostracize and prejudge people. Here are some common themes:

"Oh, another GK player. WAAC much?"

"Oh look, it's TFG"

etc...

Poor socialization isn't overlooked. How often have you found it pleasant to play with someone who's so poorly socialized they don't even display normal emotions? Or the person who doesn't understand that they've taken a joke "too far" or "run it into the ground"? How about the "pleasure" of playing a game against an opponent whose secret weapon is the waft of stench that floats across the table every now and then that distracts you from what you're doing?

If anything, tabletop wargamers are even MORE cliquish and prone to harsh judgments and ostracization (that's not a word, I'm fairly sure, but it should be), thanks to our status among the geek community as the geeks that other geeks make fun of.

Mordiggian wrote:

I think it doesn't help that GW believes they cannot expand into the women's demographic. So if they might as well make boy eyecandy because they have given up on getting women into the hobby.

Sanguine Guard? Twilight in space? sculpted abs and nipples, spend all day they dont battle painting/persuing the arts if i remember rightly?

doc1234 wrote:

Mordiggian wrote:

I think it doesn't help that GW believes they cannot expand into the women's demographic. So if they might as well make boy eyecandy because they have given up on getting women into the hobby.

Sanguine Guard? Twilight in space? sculpted abs and nipples, spend all day they dont battle painting/persuing the arts if i remember rightly?

Blood Angels are heavily influenced on the armor and style of the the Italian Renaissance, and have been that way since before Twlight came out.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Chesh wrote:

Mordiggian wrote:When was the last time you said "You're a jerk, I won't play you"?

Last Saturday actually, at my FLGS when TFG showed up.

Mordiggian wrote:I think you've switched cause and effect.

The fun thing about downward spirals or catch .22s is that attributing a specific cause is like trying to figure out whether the chicken or the egg came first.

Also, since when did the tabletop game genre "not like to ostracize"? Just like any other society or subculture we have our cliques and one of our absolute favorite things is to ostracize and prejudge people. Here are some common themes:

"Oh, another GK player. WAAC much?"

"Oh look, it's TFG"

etc...

Poor socialization isn't overlooked. How often have you found it pleasant to play with someone who's so poorly socialized they don't even display normal emotions? Or the person who doesn't understand that they've taken a joke "too far" or "run it into the ground"? How about the "pleasure" of playing a game against an opponent whose secret weapon is the waft of stench that floats across the table every now and then that distracts you from what you're doing?

If anything, tabletop wargamers are even MORE cliquish and prone to harsh judgments and ostracization (that's not a word, I'm fairly sure, but it should be), thanks to our status among the geek community as the geeks that other geeks make fun of.

All these jokes are intergroup bonding and establishment of pecking order. They are socialization and indicators of acceptance, not ostracization. When was the last time you actively discouraged someone from coming to the table? Told them that they were not welcome to play? All those peolle you mention don't appear with fully-painted armies, play once, and then vanish. They come again and again and other players will overlook their behavior. When was the last time you told someone that they needed a shower? That they were an asshat for taking the joke too far? Have you not played people because they're socially maladjusted? How is it that these people, have gotten the idea that the behavior is OK, and that they can play Warhammer despite the fact that they are socially awkward? The game doesn't do it. They start out that way, and as a group, gamers do not know how to tell people to modify their behavior.

Five Geek Social Fallacies.

On a complete tabgent to this thread, I went to a friendly tournamenty type thing and a woman whom played SW turned up and had to fight GK. The bloke was doing the usual bragging and condecending talk and such like and I was on the table next to her. She wiped the floor with him. tabled on turn 3. It was literally eye-watering. Guy was almost crying. 'tis always good to see the supposed inferiors beat the gak out of those who get too uppity for their own good

The Crusader wrote:'tis always good to see the supposed inferiors beat the gak out of those who get too uppity for their own good

i wholeheartedly agree.

The more i read post on dakka the more i become convinced I hit the jackpot on FLGS, the vast horde of kids that play are not there, in fact Im the youngest at 22. We all have good hygeine. And most are married so theyre not socially awkward. Its a pretty good crowd. Real friendly.

Now we do share the store with those card players. The MTG crowd is cool, but every saturday from noon to 6 the yu gi oh players overrun the place.

ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:
Now we do share the store with those card players. The MTG crowd is cool, but every saturday from noon to 6 the yu gi oh players overrun the place.

Exactly the same at the FLGS I frequented a while ago. Bloody crazy kids.

OBC

In the words of Monty Python:

You lucky b*****d, you lucky, lucky B*****d

Mine is filled with snot-nosed kids and incompetent fools with about 5% being good

Hazardous Harry wrote:

ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:
Now we do share the store with those card players. The MTG crowd is cool, but every saturday from noon to 6 the yu gi oh players overrun the place.

Exactly the same at the FLGS I frequented a while ago. Bloody crazy kids.

Yeah, luckly Thursday is the "official" 40k night, but if you want a game on saturday be prepared to shout across the table.

Come play Infinity instead - plenty of women in far better (and more realistic) detail for a fraction of the cost of GW!



Infinity (and other skirmish games) subforum

is infinity good?. Also back on women. I know quite a few women who play. My cousin and girlfriend for a start

Sorry mate, but Infinity is too anime for me. Plus NO ONE plays it in my area. Its either 40k, Fantasy, or FOW.

GW Belfast have 2 female employees. Both skilled gamers, painter and modellers, hobbyists in general.

ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:Sorry mate, but Infinity is too anime for me. Plus NO ONE plays it in my area. Its either 40k, Fantasy, or FOW.

While there are certainly anime-like elements, there are plenty of models (and forces) which are much more "realistic" - Ariadna being one of the least anime factions http://www.infinitythegame.com/infinity/en/2012/miniatures/merovingian-rapid-response-force/

And that just means you need to gather interest in your area

@ bobsy99 - I've not played it, but am certainly looking forward to doing so

Regards women in 40k... my wife refuses to enter GW stores.

People are too set in their ways, I tried to play Warmahordes, but it never picked up.

Plus Im not into skirmish games. The next game I get into is FOW. Bring on the Finns.

I tried Fantasy but I find the extra phase, the random spell fice and the lack of differentiation between a vehicle like a steam tank and an infantryman's characteristics, along with other things, too much to take in duribg a 12 minute demo vame.

Up at Warhammer World there's a female employee called Amy March. She is an excellent painter and thouroghly lovely.

The manager at my FLGS is a woman, apparently one of two in Canada.

Mr Nobody wrote:The manager at my FLGS is a woman, apparently one of two in Canada.

One of two women in Canada?

There are over 5 females who regularly frequent my local gw,

While I am happy to see that plenty of us know girls who play, let's try not to keep a tally sheet going. I think it seems creepier than it does supportive

Vendetta 476 wrote:

Mr Nobody wrote:The manager at my FLGS is a woman, apparently one of two in Canada.

One of two women in Canada?

Why do you think we drink so much and wrestle bears so much?

Nothing better to do :(

It would explain the dropping birth rate

MrFlutterPie wrote:

Vendetta 476 wrote:

Mr Nobody wrote:The manager at my FLGS is a woman, apparently one of two in Canada.

One of two women in Canada?

Why do you think we drink so much and wrestle bears so much?

Nothing better to do :(

Two women... nothing better to do... there's a joke in there somewhere depending on how you define "do"...

Redbeard wrote:

TedNugent wrote:
Women who actually kick ass are stinky, husky, and crass, and they have big biceps and square jaws.

Seriously?

Not one of those women could beat an equally skilled man in the same devision as themselves. The man will have much greater muscle density, quicker reflexes and stronger bones. If this hurts your feelings, suck it up and go take an anatomy class, followed by grade school biology. If it still hurts your feelings after that, go join a hippy feminist commune, because you just arent cut out for reality.

This is the single most frustrating fact of the feminist movement. The blatent refusal to acknowledge the basic biological design of the sexes. Men are ALWAYS, going to be physically superior to women. Women will ALWAYS be physically inferior to men. Women are genetically designed to help make babies, feed the growing babies, and raise the child. Men are genetically designed to hunt, fight, kill, burn, maim et al. All in the interest of providing for the female and children as they grow, and protect them from physical harm if possible thus continuing and furthering the species. (please note, this is not an assertion that "women belong in the kitchen, makin me a sangwich, while being pregnant and barefoot)

Now how this applies to this thread. There is no reason why women, attractive women cannot compete in the games of war. ESPECIALLY in the 41st millenium where bionics, power suits, and physical manifestations of ones stead fast faith are concerned. Ooooh that brings up a nasty thought......
Female Ogryn..... death by snusnu anyone?

thakabalpuphorsefishguy wrote:Not one of those women could beat an equally skilled man in the same devision as themselves. The man will have much greater muscle density, quicker reflexes and stronger bones. If this hurts your feelings, suck it up and go take an anatomy class, followed by grade school biology. If it still hurts your feelings after that, go join a hippy feminist commune, because you just arent cut out for reality.

This is the single most frustrating fact of the feminist movement. The blatent refusal to acknowledge the basic biological design of the sexes. Men are ALWAYS, going to be physically superior to women. Women will ALWAYS be physically inferior to men. Women are genetically designed to help make babies, feed the growing babies, and raise the child. Men are genetically designed to hunt, fight, kill, burn, maim et al. All in the interest of providing for the female and children as they grow, and protect them from physical harm if possible thus continuing and furthering the species.

Though I would be willing to bet these women could beat the crap out of you, and most of your male friends...

SilverMK2 wrote:

thakabalpuphorsefishguy wrote:Not one of those women could beat an equally skilled man in the same devision as themselves. The man will have much greater muscle density, quicker reflexes and stronger bones. If this hurts your feelings, suck it up and go take an anatomy class, followed by grade school biology. If it still hurts your feelings after that, go join a hippy feminist commune, because you just arent cut out for reality.

This is the single most frustrating fact of the feminist movement. The blatent refusal to acknowledge the basic biological design of the sexes. Men are ALWAYS, going to be physically superior to women. Women will ALWAYS be physically inferior to men. Women are genetically designed to help make babies, feed the growing babies, and raise the child. Men are genetically designed to hunt, fight, kill, burn, maim et al. All in the interest of providing for the female and children as they grow, and protect them from physical harm if possible thus continuing and furthering the species.

Though I would be willing to bet these women could beat the crap out of you, and most of your male friends...

And I would be the first to cry like a little 6 year old girl if I made one of those lovely women mad XD!!! Hell hath no fury like an MMA champion scorned hahah

But my point still stands, and I simply felt like airing out my frustrations with the "im every woman," "We are strong" liberal feminatzi movement. And the line of tripe they force upon culture as a whole. And here is why, for those of you who want a little personal story.
I was lucky enough to have a mother who stayed at home and raised me and my two sisters. And to sit and watch the nasty self righteous whitches denigrate my mother as a "backwards regretionist" loser to lazy and or stupid to work like "real women" should, makes me want to puke.

thakabalpuphorsefishguy wrote:[But my point still stands, and I simply felt like airing out my frustrations with the "im every woman," "We are strong" liberal feminatzi movement. And the line of tripe they force upon culture as a whole. And here is why, for those of you who want a little personal story.
I was lucky enough to have a mother who stayed at home and raised me and my two sisters. And to sit and watch the nasty self righteous whitches denigrate my mother as a "backwards regretionist" loser to lazy and or stupid to work like "real women" should, makes me want to puke.

There are fringe nutters in every group. The entire point of feminism is equality; in society, employment, rights, etc, not that women should become a CEO at the age of 25, make her first trillion at the age of 26, fund genetic research to "cure the male problem" by age 28, and then rule over a world without men at the age of 30

There are certain physiological differences between men and women, but the difference between average people of different sexes is essentially meaningless in modern society. Dump them into the jungle and most men and women from middle America would be dead within a week, regardless of how "genetically superior their gender is when it comes to hunting", or whatever tired trope it is that you want to wheel out to "demonstrate" that one sex is better than the other. In the grand scheme of things, there is no difference between men and women.