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-Loki- wrote:

BlapBlapBlap wrote:

-Loki- wrote:There's not much left GW can take from Tyranids.

So say they just decided to remove the Tervigon and only leave hald of the box for the Tyrranofex...

I was talking more about making units worse, since GW haven't been on a 'remove units entirely' kick for a long time, outside of Pariahs in the Necron book. Lately, books have been about 'squeeze in as many units as possible, even if half of them are terrible'.

Agreed

I'm thinking they're going to nerf Rune Priests. Space Wolves don't trust arcane magic, yet the Rune Priest is arguably their best HQ. It doesn't fit in with their fluff at all. My guess is that Jaws will be errataed so that it rolls to hit and that it removes one wound from multiwound models instead of removing all of them.

It would suck for Wolves players, but it could lead to other HQ choices becoming more viable.

-Loki- wrote:

BlapBlapBlap wrote:

-Loki- wrote:There's not much left GW can take from Tyranids.

So say they just decided to remove the Tervigon and only leave hald of the box for the Tyrranofex...

I was talking more about making units worse, since GW haven't been on a 'remove units entirely' kick for a long time, outside of Pariahs in the Necron book. Lately, books have been about 'squeeze in as many units as possible, even if half of them are terrible'.

Make Tervigons stop spawning and cancel any gaunts altogether, counting as a KP, whenever they roll a 3 or lower on any dice.

On 3d6? That'd be broken, meaning a triple 1 is needed (something like a 1/64 chane of it happening I think)

IHateNids wrote:Ok, AP3 then. But deffinately S5 in, S4 out

You only want this cause we all play mech spam don't you. Whereas you and the Elf play footsloggers. I still think that ap3 is harsh. Maybe ap5. and the D6 idea with no saves would affect marines to much and things like orks to little.

IHateNids wrote:On 3d6? That'd be broken, meaning a triple 1 is needed (something like a 1/64 chane of it happening I think)

Triple one? You just have to roll a single number below 3 to lose it forever.

I didn't say all?

BlapBlapBlap wrote:

IHateNids wrote:On 3d6? That'd be broken, meaning a triple 1 is needed (something like a 1/64 chane of it happening I think)

Triple one? You just have to roll a single number below 3 to lose it forever.

I didn't say all?

No, you didn't

redkeyboard wrote:

IHateNids wrote:Ok, AP3 then. But definately S5 in, S4 out

You only want this cause we all play mech spam don't you. Whereas you and the Elf play footsloggers.

That has nothing to do with it. I hate the idea that people inside an exploding vehicle can survive

I still think that ap3 is harsh. Maybe ap5. and the D6 idea with no saves would affect marines to much and things like orks to little

Got any other ideas?

IHateNids wrote:

BlapBlapBlap wrote:

IHateNids wrote:On 3d6? That'd be broken, meaning a triple 1 is needed (something like a 1/64 chane of it happening I think)

Triple one? You just have to roll a single number below 3 to lose it forever.

I didn't say all?

No, you didn't

So what did I say?

I have a horrid habit of putting Question Marks at the end of everything, so it might be lost in translation.

StoneRaizer wrote:I'm thinking they're going to nerf Rune Priests. Space Wolves don't trust arcane magic, yet the Rune Priest is arguably their best HQ. It doesn't fit in with their fluff at all.

It does fit with their fluff.

Their fluff just doesn't make sense.

biccat wrote:

StoneRaizer wrote:I'm thinking they're going to nerf Rune Priests. Space Wolves don't trust arcane magic, yet the Rune Priest is arguably their best HQ. It doesn't fit in with their fluff at all.

It does fit with their fluff.

Their fluff just doesn't make sense.

I always assumed their fluff was in denial. I mean "Energies from the Planet and Russ?"

And no one's really tried correcting them, because they bash people in the face that try to.

With the release of the Storm Talon, GW appears to be trying to take away the pride of Space Marine armies.


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biccat wrote:

StoneRaizer wrote:I'm thinking they're going to nerf Rune Priests. Space Wolves don't trust arcane magic, yet the Rune Priest is arguably their best HQ. It doesn't fit in with their fluff at all.

It does fit with their fluff.

Their fluff just doesn't make sense.

This is fairly true. The Space Wolves tend to break any and all established fluff. Including their own.

redkeyboard wrote:

IHateNids wrote:Ok, AP3 then. But deffinately S5 in, S4 out

You only want this cause we all play mech spam don't you. Whereas you and the Elf play footsloggers. I still think that ap3 is harsh. Maybe ap5. and the D6 idea with no saves would affect marines to much and things like orks to little.

This is what "wrecked" looks like. Power armor ain't gonna help.

BairdEC wrote:
This is what "wrecked" looks like. Power armor ain't gonna help.

Thank you, someone making sense at last

And Power Armour isn't going to help because...? The tank wreck looks like that because it explodes from the inside. It's not designed to keep together after an internal explosion. Relative to the Power Armour, though, the explosion is external, which is the very thing Power Armour is designed to protect from.

Veteran Sergeant wrote:With the release of the Storm Talon, GW appears to be trying to take away the pride of Space Marine armies.

What exactly does this mean?

BairdEC wrote:
This is what "wrecked" looks like. Power armor ain't gonna help.

When your armor is as thick as the tank you're inside, I think it's a possibility you'll survive. I agree again that riding in transports should cause more harm when they explode, but losing the whole squad to the explosion should only happen when your dice absolutely positively screw you.

Ok, here's something: The unit in the Transport takes 2D6 S6 AP4 hits. External Explosion is 2D6" S4 AP5 hits what it covers

IHateNids wrote:Ok, here's something: The unit in the Transport takes 2D6 S6 AP4 hits. External Explosion is 2D6" S4 AP5 hits what it covers

Make the inside S5 and the external 1D6"; having the explosions be that enormous would just make you want to put your guys in vehicles even more. If one Trukk in the middle of my army exploded and killed 30 boyz I'd be pretty unhappy.

Meh. I dont know if this will happen but I hope they dont nerf SG or DC. That would be bad.

What caused the damage to that Bradley wasn't an explosion, but a penetrating (RPG?) hit that started an ammunition fire, resulting in the catastrophic kill. IIRC, a few guys did manage to bail out before it was too late, which is what I think of the save representing. Unfortunately, power armor isn't going to save a trooper from a fire that melts his armor. Standing in a burning combat vehicle would be like standing in a volcanic eruption. Maybe space marines can do that, but if so, I've missed that bit of fluff.

BairdEC wrote:What caused the damage to that Bradley wasn't an explosion, but a penetrating (RPG?) hit that started an ammunition fire, resulting in the catastrophic kill. IIRC, a few guys did manage to bail out before it was too late, which is what I think of the save representing. Unfortunately, power armor isn't going to save a trooper from a fire that melts his armor. Standing in a burning combat vehicle would be like standing in a volcanic eruption. Maybe space marines can do that, but if so, I've missed that bit of fluff.

Ammunition / fuel explosion IS what the Destroyed - Explodes result is supposed to show.

If the explosion is sufficient to destroy the aluminum-steel armor on a Bradley and make the frame totally unrecognizable, then power armor will not save you.

BairdEC wrote:What caused the damage to that Bradley wasn't an explosion, but a penetrating (RPG?) hit that started an ammunition fire, resulting in the catastrophic kill. IIRC, a few guys did manage to bail out before it was too late, which is what I think of the save representing. Unfortunately, power armor isn't going to save a trooper from a fire that melts his armor. Standing in a burning combat vehicle would be like standing in a volcanic eruption. Maybe space marines can do that, but if so, I've missed that bit of fluff.

They kinda can! First the power suits are internally sealed so that fire damage to the lungs is less likely to occur, and than there's the glands that enable them to resist acid and fire damage to the skin because of the way it works.

Not to mention Power armor itself can resist HEAVY FLAME THROWERS, y'know, the one's that are hot enough to melt through stormtrooper/firewarrior armor?

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

BairdEC wrote:What caused the damage to that Bradley wasn't an explosion, but a penetrating (RPG?) hit that started an ammunition fire, resulting in the catastrophic kill. IIRC, a few guys did manage to bail out before it was too late, which is what I think of the save representing. Unfortunately, power armor isn't going to save a trooper from a fire that melts his armor. Standing in a burning combat vehicle would be like standing in a volcanic eruption. Maybe space marines can do that, but if so, I've missed that bit of fluff.

They kinda can! First the power suits are internally sealed so that fire damage to the lungs is less likely to occur, and than there's the glands that enable them to resist acid and fire damage to the skin because of the way it works.

Not to mention Power armor itself can resist HEAVY FLAME THROWERS, y'know, the one's that are hot enough to melt through stormtrooper/firewarrior armor?

I'm going to counter the bit I underlined: Flamestorm Cannons

Unit1126PLL wrote:

BairdEC wrote:What caused the damage to that Bradley wasn't an explosion, but a penetrating (RPG?) hit that started an ammunition fire, resulting in the catastrophic kill. IIRC, a few guys did manage to bail out before it was too late, which is what I think of the save representing. Unfortunately, power armor isn't going to save a trooper from a fire that melts his armor. Standing in a burning combat vehicle would be like standing in a volcanic eruption. Maybe space marines can do that, but if so, I've missed that bit of fluff.

Ammunition / fuel explosion IS what the Destroyed - Explodes result is supposed to show.

If the explosion is sufficient to destroy the aluminum-steel armor on a Bradley and make the frame totally unrecognizable, then power armor will not save you.

I don't think you're arguing here, but a quick clarification, if I may.

While RPG's and other HEAT/HEAP (shaped charge) rounds do explode, it's not the explosion that does the damage. That type of warhead creates a molten metal slug that burns through the armor and, once inside, bounces around the interior. Fuel and ammo hits are almost certain to ignite if struck by the slug. HESH/HEP warheads are also explosive, but don't form a jet. They smash against the side of the target and blow chunks from the inside layer (spalling), which makes them great for use against bunkers. Fragmentation is a happy side effect of both of these, but the fragmentation is not responsible for the major damage to the vehicle hit.

Thanks Baird, we aren't unfamiliar with how shells work XD

All I'm trying to say is not a great lot will survive inside an exploding tank

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

BairdEC wrote:What caused the damage to that Bradley wasn't an explosion, but a penetrating (RPG?) hit that started an ammunition fire, resulting in the catastrophic kill. IIRC, a few guys did manage to bail out before it was too late, which is what I think of the save representing. Unfortunately, power armor isn't going to save a trooper from a fire that melts his armor. Standing in a burning combat vehicle would be like standing in a volcanic eruption. Maybe space marines can do that, but if so, I've missed that bit of fluff.

They kinda can! First the power suits are internally sealed so that fire damage to the lungs is less likely to occur, and than there's the glands that enable them to resist acid and fire damage to the skin because of the way it works.

Not to mention Power armor itself can resist HEAVY FLAME THROWERS, y'know, the one's that are hot enough to melt through stormtrooper/firewarrior armor?

Can space marines handle hugs from a eldar avatar?

Still, even though the suits are sealed, they still have weak points- joints. The flexibility required to move means that the armor does have weak spots, just not many. The other aspect that comes to mind is that if the fire is hot enough, it doesn't matter how thick the shell is. Have you ever used a dutch oven? Same principle.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Yeah. no problem I blame Hollywood for most people's gross misunderstanding of how weapons work.

That, and Call of Duty

Brother SRM wrote:

Veteran Sergeant wrote:With the release of the Storm Talon, GW appears to be trying to take away the pride of Space Marine armies.

What exactly does this mean?

It means that Games Workshop managed to one-up the Stormraven and created the new ugliest model in 40K history.

Seriously. A Marine in a Squat Hovercar would have been better than the Stormtalon. Like one person has said, it's so horribly engineered that it would never fly, and then it loses out by being so ugly that the "rule of cool" doesn't even save it.

Literally the biggest disappointment in history if you're a fan of Space Marines. I can't even figure out how this model got greenlit for production. Or even made it past the conceptual artwork stage. So yes, that model is an embarrassment to the entire Space Marine product range.

Veteran Sergeant wrote: means that Games Workshop managed to one-up the Stormraven and created the new ugliest model in 40K history.

Seriously. A Marine in a Squat Hovercar would have been better than the Stormtalon. Like one person has said, it's so horribly engineered that it would never fly, and then it loses out by being so ugly that the "rule of cool" doesn't even save it.

Literally the biggest disappointment in history if you're a fan of Space Marines. I can't even figure out how this model got greenlit for production. Or even made it past the conceptual artwork stage. So yes, that model is an embarrassment to the entire Space Marine product range.

So don't buy it? I fail to see the problem whether you like it or not. Even if you think it's an atrocious model, it doesn't ruin the good Space Marine models.

You're taking this a bit too seriously man. It was a joke. GFL.

Transports: Strength 4 AP -, inside and outside. Nerfs them a bit, but not enough to make them rolling coffins. Seriously, S5 would make transports absolutley useless, especially for Eldar and Space Marine armies. And the explosion and AP value would be ridicolous. No one would ever use transports again.