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Has anyone tried Deep Striking the crisis suits in yet? Do they get cut down worse than before?

FacelessMage wrote:Has anyone tried Deep Striking the crisis suits in yet? Do they get cut down worse than before?

From my experience so far, they're still best deployed at the begining behind cover. Then they can dish out firepower from the first turn. Now steath suits on the other hand, they could go well with a deep strike. However, I find they're best with an outflank or infiltrate. That way they can get deep without the potential for mishap.

Deep Striking crisis suits is now pretty much like moving straight at a mob of orks. Weapons can do damage from turn one as Yotsuba said and this way you can counteract their movements, rather than being stuck in their face!

Eldrad (beast of an ally for tau) can also redeploy D3+1 units at start so that makes it even better to start in cover.

Deep striking also makes you battle cannonable as you wont have cover Need to give your broadsides a turn to kill them before you complain that they have the easy job!

Hey guys I love the tau but havent played them basically ever because I got tired of losing to my cousin. Any one have any tips on beating necrons that are basically tailored to your list no matter what you play as? Also he loves the doom scythes....

Any advice is appreciated

I'm a smattering of games into them now and I can give what advice I've been seeing.

So far we have done 1500 point games to get the rules ironed out well. My army has been some variation of:

3x suits all with Mpods and flamers + 2 total gun drones/blacksun. Some weapon differences but I love this loadout in the new game. The offhand flamers have been an incredible deterent towards MSU chargers like trukk boys and even whittled down marine squads. Overwatch fire from flamers even nicked the last wound on a daemon prince bearing down on me, good times all. I havent had the points to bump everything up to shield drones though spare points usually see my comander get a pair, though I hate spending points on any one option so he rarely gets over 100 points.

1 baby suit commander with Mpod, flamer 1 or 2 gun/shield drone. Again single Mpod plus flamer is a ton of utility in the new game, I have seen tons of foot slogers. The meta is xenos heavy so the flamers have cut down tons on overwatch and just general

4-6 units of 6 FW no transports

2x2 units of tetras

Heavy support has been rotation of all the options though im very happy with 1 unit of 2 broadside + 2x hammerheads

So far 6th feels like a new book for tau. The mobility is staggering. The whole army has wheels and can get to where it needs to go. If something threatens it gets lead by the nose via movement. Running + assault moves can have your enemy chase after ghosts. Plus the new vehicle rules have seen metal boxes dry up so the 2-4 railguns I have plus missile spam have usually been way past sufficient for armor duty.

I have also deep struck one unit of warriors each game and its done as expected, usually wrecking stragglers in the rear or messing up small units. I misshaped one game but I had the game in had already on turn two and was trying to be aggressive with a corner drop which i flubbed even with the tetra reroll.

In 6th I dont know how I am going to find room for kroot. Every army has better melee and I'd rather have a s5 shooting platform which can scoot away from threats.

Orkaswampa wrote:Deep Striking crisis suits is now pretty much like moving straight at a mob of orks. Weapons can do damage from turn one as Yotsuba said and this way you can counteract their movements, rather than being stuck in their face!

Eldrad (beast of an ally for tau) can also redeploy D3+1 units at start so that makes it even better to start in cover.

Deep striking also makes you battle cannonable as you wont have cover Need to give your broadsides a turn to kill them before you complain that they have the easy job!

Maybe you should deep strike "behind" the enemy and then thrust move 2d6 away after shooting.
If you can get the enemy to back up to chase a cheap unit, then that unit has done something whether it destroys a target or not..

I have seen one of the posters here, deep strike aggressively against the IG in order to nullify their battle cannons/big guns. The suits were too close to their Russes for Large Blast ordinance and the melta-vets were to far away. If you can get your suits right next to a Leman Russ, they have a hard time clearing out enought to allow for safe use of Ordinance.

This might be different now in 6th but I think it worth remembering.

Against guard yes, but something like orks will catch you and kill you fast if you're in their territory Deep striking does screw Long range lists but the majority of cc wil lbe a huge problem

I'd rather have a horde of boys after my tl flamersuits who are conveniently on overwatch than after an objective or my fire warriors.

Think last turn target denial, no ork player can turn down the chance to kill things! even if it means losing that objective.
The objective is either contested by the suits or is abandoned by the orks.
Crisis suits will *probably* survive a round of combat with a depleted mob.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and eldrad with a blob of rangers or gardener jetbikes is full of win

Everything aggressive you do should happen starting turn 4-5. Basically, I've put myself in a position to win or tie every game I've played lately by kiting my enemy, allowing him to push while witiling him down then suddenly and quickly striking back with the killing blow, either taking or contesting objectives and making it difficult for them to retaliate because there may or may not be a next turn.

This is what my kroot seem to be best for. They work well when it comes to last minute contests and holding empty points while my main force focuses on more important targets.

Going to ground with a guardian jetbike squad for 2+ save on turn 1 works well, as your opponent will ignore them, and then go 48 inches for objective denial later.

That sounds like a good tactic yotsuba i must try this ;P

I thought bikes couldn't go to ground.

Well then just sit there, doesnt make much difference

Are tau really that bad that every other post keeps talking about eldar or necrons? =P I was considering selling my tau army for a necron army but now that necrons are "top dog" I don't want to jump on the proverbial monolith bandwagon. So I'll make my tau work (but you know we'll figure this whole 6th ed change out and then we'll get a new codex and start back at page 1)

Most psychic powers seem less than 24" range and the enemy should hopefully be dying if they are closer than 15". I don't see a use for the devilfish anymore. Can someone make a good argument for it?

Lastly some stealth suits squad with some sniper drone support seems to be a nice cover hugging pain throwing distraction unit.

Setting aside elrad and his awesomness, what do you think of equipping 6-8 fire warriors with EMP-nades? Quite a few glances on vehicles.

Gatekeeper wrote:Are tau really that bad that every other post keeps talking about eldar or necrons? =P I was considering selling my tau army for a necron army but now that necrons are "top dog" I don't want to jump on the proverbial monolith bandwagon. So I'll make my tau work (but you know we'll figure this whole 6th ed change out and then we'll get a new codex and start back at page 1)

Most psychic powers seem less than 24" range and the enemy should hopefully be dying if they are closer than 15". I don't see a use for the devilfish anymore. Can someone make a good argument for it?

Lastly some stealth suits squad with some sniper drone support seems to be a nice cover hugging pain throwing distraction unit.

The tau dex is old and just about everything is over-costed points-wise. Some aspects of the faction can be effective, but they're really due for an across the board point decrease the same way Guard got one last edition.

Just thought of something>

Since the Sniper Drone Teams don't have target lock anymore do both teams then have to fire at the same unit? Which means that hammerheads and broadsides are still better right?

Great thread. Thanks for starting.

Gatekeeper wrote:Just thought of something>

Since the Sniper Drone Teams don't have target lock anymore do both teams then have to fire at the same unit?

...yes, just like everything else without target lock.

Gatekeeper wrote:
Which means that hammerheads and broadsides are still better right?

I'm assuming that you're saying that "because sniper teams don't get target lock, is it an investment to get hamerheads and broadsides?". Yes. Hammerhead and broadsides all the way. ALSO, target lock is gone from the wargear list, but not from vehicle upgrades . So hammerheads can shoot at whatever they please.

Each of the 1-3 teams are seperate units, so each of the 1-3 units can fire at a different target.

But each model in each of the 3 1-3 units must fire at the same target, so you can't fire the Markerlight at something else, etc.

Gatekeeper wrote:I don't see a use for the devilfish anymore. Can someone make a good argument for it?

Sure thing.

Firstly, if you're taking pathfinders it's required so you will have to have one to have all that markerlight/rail rifle goodness.

Secondly, They get a 5+ jink save (4+ flat out) so as long as you're constantly moving them they're harder to hit.

And finally, the best part IMO, they're essentially mobile cover. You place one in a choke point and hope they waste time shooting at it. As long as it doesn't explode, it sits there as a giant wall between you and your opponents.

Drones have the same type profile as the controller.
So Drones bought by characters also become characters.
Page 413 lists model types with (ch) being included.
i.e. Broadside Shas'vre Type: In(ch) or as a non-tau example Nob type: In (ch)
It would only apply for drones bought by models with (ch) in the type so a Stealth Shas'ui with DC would not confer (ch) but a stealth Shas'vre would.
You can basiclly use drones and their controller to tarpit a MC or IC for at least three rounds.
Time to start playing Frisby with IC and MC!

YotsubaSnake wrote:Everything aggressive you do should happen starting turn 4-5. Basically, I've put myself in a position to win or tie every game I've played lately by kiting my enemy, allowing him to push while witiling him down then suddenly and quickly striking back with the killing blow, either taking or contesting objectives and making it difficult for them to retaliate because there may or may not be a next turn.

This is what my kroot seem to be best for. They work well when it comes to last minute contests and holding empty points while my main force focuses on more important targets.

Waiting until turn 4-5 is a 5th ed tactic. It may still hold true in 6th or.... maybe not.

In 5th ed, I'd use my posi-relay to hold half of my troops(FW &/or Kroot) off of the board until turn 4 in most games. I would then have them walk on to contest/grab my objectives after having my suits & vehicles lead my opponent on a merry chase.

In 6th ed, it seems that having troops on the board will be more necessary in order to help provide weight of fire against your opponents infantry. This combined with the new movement/assault distances means that we will, most likely, have to provide distractions(be agressive) earlier in the game than in previous editions.

Avro wrote:Setting aside elrad and his awesomness, what do you think of equipping 6-8 fire warriors with EMP-nades? Quite a few glances on vehicles.

Even though the EMP's are over-priced, when compared to the cost of their haywire cousins, a unit or two set up like this will be pretty good.
Don't know if you would want to spend the points to run all of your fw's like this, this would be a matter of personal preference.

Panzeh wrote:

Gatekeeper wrote:Are tau really that bad that every other post keeps talking about eldar or necrons? =P I was considering selling my tau army for a necron army but now that necrons are "top dog" I don't want to jump on the proverbial monolith bandwagon. So I'll make my tau work (but you know we'll figure this whole 6th ed change out and then we'll get a new codex and start back at page 1)

Most psychic powers seem less than 24" range and the enemy should hopefully be dying if they are closer than 15". I don't see a use for the devilfish anymore. Can someone make a good argument for it?

Lastly some stealth suits squad with some sniper drone support seems to be a nice cover hugging pain throwing distraction unit.

The tau dex is old and just about everything is over-costed points-wise. Some aspects of the faction can be effective, but they're really due for an across the board point decrease the same way Guard got one last edition.

Careful, Some of us are very sensitive about comparisons between the Tau and the IG. Tau have enough problems with other players (IG&SM) calling them xenos IG.

Tau are not in any way an IG type army. To put it differently:


Would you rather have a generic points drop that makes the Tau a non-fluffy higher model count army that also does not really address the core problems created by more recent codicii?

or

Would you like to see each units effectiveness increased to where they are worth their current points costs?

I prefer the latter. The Tau are a small empire that does not engage in attrition warfare. They should be lower model count builds that, if used properly, have a high kill vs loss ratio.
I hope that GW keeps them around 65-75 models in a 1850-2000 pt army. If Kroot are improved, maybe up to an 85-95 model count army.

terminalmonky wrote:Great thread. Thanks for starting.

Thanks and welcome to both the thread and to Dakka.

YotsubaSnake wrote:

Gatekeeper wrote:I don't see a use for the devilfish anymore. Can someone make a good argument for it?

Sure thing.

Firstly, if you're taking pathfinders it's required so you will have to have one to have all that markerlight/rail rifle goodness.

Secondly, They get a 5+ jink save (4+ flat out) so as long as you're constantly moving them they're harder to hit.

And finally, the best part IMO, they're essentially mobile cover. You place one in a choke point and hope they waste time shooting at it. As long as it doesn't explode, it sits there as a giant wall between you and your opponents.

^This.

Also, I mentioned that the Pathfinder devilfish might be getting kitted out differently in this edition. Look closely at running sensor spines on the D-fish. Remember, This is going to be terrain-hammer and vehicles in terrain can easily get a better save than the normal 5+ Jink.


(Tactics hint)
Captain Avatars last post brings up a valid point. Sometime, when deep striking or just in game, you will find that getting right up next to an opponents units and non-skimmer vehicle will stuff his movement. It will, also, force your opponent to decide whether to move those vehicles faster than planned or to let you get cover from the rest of his army.

Other times, getting behind their advancing lines can force them to break the wall/trap and thus leave your army with a much needed escape route.

Gatekeeper wrote:I don't see a use for the devilfish anymore. Can someone make a good argument for it?

Ok.

Make a warfish from the pathfinder fish, add SMS, TA, multi-tracker and the zip around going 12 inches or less and blast things with your always 5+ fishy. You can also load up 10 kroot for last turn objective grabbing.

^ +1
The devilfish is a big awkward lump, that if in cover, will be difficult to shift. Landing gear means you can block off lines of sight and flechettes make it awkward to assault.
Even glancing it to death wont work because only and 'explodes' result removes the model from the board.
The marker beacon special rule from the pathfinders 'fish will bring in your suits nice and accurately.

Anything else?

@focusedfire, making tau worth their points would be good but we go into the MEQ abilities when start trying to improve most them. I would rather get cheaper crisis suits and fire warriors.
Everything counts in large amounts.

Game update:

Destroyed a landraider with 8 FW with EMP-nades. Oh the glee! Then they were killed by thunder hammers :,(

Avro wrote:Game update:

Destroyed a landraider with 8 FW with EMP-nades. Oh the glee! Then they were killed by thunder hammers :,(

Fair exchange
But have heart, If Matt Ward does our next codex you'll get your revenge. I imagine our broadsides would be dual wielding thunder hammers and will attack on a I6 (and dont forget the shield drones with lighting claws!)

Now I want to make a Shield Drone with twin-Lightning Claws...

Tun_Tau wrote:

Avro wrote:Game update:

Destroyed a landraider with 8 FW with EMP-nades. Oh the glee! Then they were killed by thunder hammers :,(

Fair exchange
But have heart, If Matt Ward does our next codex you'll get your revenge. I imagine our broadsides would be dual wielding thunder hammers and will attack on a I6 (and dont forget the shield drones with lighting claws!)

Don't even joke about that. Ward might see it and actually think we want these things.

A Town Called Malus wrote:

Tun_Tau wrote:

Avro wrote:Game update:

Destroyed a landraider with 8 FW with EMP-nades. Oh the glee! Then they were killed by thunder hammers :,(

Fair exchange
But have heart, If Matt Ward does our next codex you'll get your revenge. I imagine our broadsides would be dual wielding thunder hammers and will attack on a I6 (and dont forget the shield drones with lighting claws!)

Don't even joke about that. Ward might see it and actually think we want these things.

You'd know he'd do it lol

A Town Called Malus wrote:

Tun_Tau wrote:

Avro wrote:Game update:

Destroyed a landraider with 8 FW with EMP-nades. Oh the glee! Then they were killed by thunder hammers :,(

Fair exchange
But have heart, If Matt Ward does our next codex you'll get your revenge. I imagine our broadsides would be dual wielding thunder hammers and will attack on a I6 (and dont forget the shield drones with lighting claws!)

Don't even joke about that. Ward might see it and actually think we want these things.

We don't want those things?

SO: i was reading Forgeworld stuffs and I noticed that one of the lower cost fliers is a heavy support choice for Tau (the barracuda). I'm not sure we would enjoy having to decide between fliers and broadsides and hammerheads.