Logan Grimnar vs Abaddon the Despoiler?

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**Sgt_Smudge**

Marthike wrote:
Frecklesonfire wrote:
No other factors? so the 4 ruinous powers jacking Abaddon up are gone for the fist fight, doesn't matter Abaddon still has 10,000 years of great crusade experience, Horus heresy experience, black crusade experience.

I think some people forget that Abaddon is a ' Luna wolf ' . He has everything that Logan has. On the exception of space wolves have better senses. Luna wolves have the most endurance of all the legions. Even the perfectionists of Fulgrim's legion are exhausted trying to keep up.

Abaddon has 10,000 years of fighting and tactical experience. Logan doesn't.

Abaddon was on Ullanor with Horus slaying the Warboss. A most impressive feat of strength for even a first captain.

Abaddon fought back from a crushing advance from the loyalists and reclaimed the war masters body. And yet again had to reclaim the war masters body from the Emperors children within the eye.

Only the daemon primarchs have as much power as Abaddon

Abaddon also has been waging war in his terminator armor all this time. There really isn't a time that hes not in it, and even when terminator armor was fist issued to the legions Abaddon is super fast and quick footed in it, Loken makes a note of it on Istvan 3, Imagine if he wasn't wearing it how fast he would be.

If it was Logan Vs Abaddon in a boxing ring or a field, he would be on the ground so fast its not funny. Logan would be weaker, Logan would be exhausted, Logan would be slower, Logan would be intellectually outmatched, Logan is not as battle hardened as Abaddon.

I'm trying hard not to be a Abaddon fan boy, but lets be real.

I like abaddon and all, since I want to start a chaos army with him and chosen with lots of termis. (just epic)

But speed is not a problem. did you not read my comment that logan killed a GK supremme GM with 1 hit before he can even react, is that not fast? with all his psychic ability and mastery of the falchion and being the supreme GM he died to logan, also even a GK libby was beat by him. this libby shattered the demon sword of (the demon from the the first war of armorgedon).

Sorry i forget how to spell the names and exact details.

He killed the Supreme Grand Master becasue he wasn't ready for it. The act itself is heresy, attacking one of the Emperor's own. That is hardly testament to beating him in combat. In the hypothesised scenario, Abby and Santa Logan would be both ready and prepped for the fight. Backstabbing is not of any use here.

**ZebioLizard2**

Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Marthike wrote:
Frecklesonfire wrote:
No other factors? so the 4 ruinous powers jacking Abaddon up are gone for the fist fight, doesn't matter Abaddon still has 10,000 years of great crusade experience, Horus heresy experience, black crusade experience.

I think some people forget that Abaddon is a ' Luna wolf ' . He has everything that Logan has. On the exception of space wolves have better senses. Luna wolves have the most endurance of all the legions. Even the perfectionists of Fulgrim's legion are exhausted trying to keep up.

Abaddon has 10,000 years of fighting and tactical experience. Logan doesn't.

Abaddon was on Ullanor with Horus slaying the Warboss. A most impressive feat of strength for even a first captain.

Abaddon fought back from a crushing advance from the loyalists and reclaimed the war masters body. And yet again had to reclaim the war masters body from the Emperors children within the eye.

Only the daemon primarchs have as much power as Abaddon

Abaddon also has been waging war in his terminator armor all this time. There really isn't a time that hes not in it, and even when terminator armor was fist issued to the legions Abaddon is super fast and quick footed in it, Loken makes a note of it on Istvan 3, Imagine if he wasn't wearing it how fast he would be.

If it was Logan Vs Abaddon in a boxing ring or a field, he would be on the ground so fast its not funny. Logan would be weaker, Logan would be exhausted, Logan would be slower, Logan would be intellectually outmatched, Logan is not as battle hardened as Abaddon.

I'm trying hard not to be a Abaddon fan boy, but lets be real.

I like abaddon and all, since I want to start a chaos army with him and chosen with lots of termis. (just epic)

But speed is not a problem. did you not read my comment that logan killed a GK supremme GM with 1 hit before he can even react, is that not fast? with all his psychic ability and mastery of the falchion and being the supreme GM he died to logan, also even a GK libby was beat by him. this libby shattered the demon sword of (the demon from the the first war of armorgedon).

Sorry i forget how to spell the names and exact details.

He killed the Supreme Grand Master becasue he wasn't ready for it. The act itself is heresy, attacking one of the Emperor's own. That is hardly testament to beating him in combat. In the hypothesised scenario, Abby and Santa Logan would be both ready and prepped for the fight. Backstabbing is not of any use here.

Considering that Logan Grimnar is

A: A Space Marine

B: A Chapter Master

C: Most importantly, A Space Wolf.

That plot armor is so powerful on the base Space Puppies that Abbadon will be beaten and then tossed out the airlock, he'll survive somehow due to the chaos gods but Logan won't even be scratched.

**shauni55**

Psh in a fist fight Ferris Mannus would beat them both... METAL FISTY CUFFS

**luftsb**

DarthMarko wrote:
Logan would maul the crap out of him...

+1 any scaps left of abaddon would be lunch for Tyrnak and Fenrir

**Veteran of The Long War**

Abaddon beats Logan in every way.
As a commander, Abaddon has orchestrated a 10,000 year campaign against the Imperium with only 2 canonical defeats and it cumulated with the conquest of Segmentum Obscuras.

As a Warrior, Abaddon beat The Horus Clone and Sigismund, the greatest warrior in the great crusade.

In a straight up brawl, Abaddon was supposedly the strongest marine alive, able to use terminator armor like normal marines use power armor.

**Happyjew**

But, dot dot dot, how can Abaddon fight with no arms?

**BrianDavion**

Happyjew wrote:
But, dot dot dot, how can Abaddon fight with no arms?

Get back there and he'll gnaw your ankles off!

**Happyjew**

BrianDavion wrote:
Happyjew wrote:
But, dot dot dot, how can Abaddon fight with no arms?

Get back there and he'll gnaw your ankles off!

The Black Legion leader is invincible!

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Crap. Now I need to ruin that scene.

To Adepta Sororitas Sense of Humor: 1,001 Sisters jokes!!

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Well, on second thought, let's not go to that thread -- it is a silly place. Right.

**Bobthehero**

Veteran of The Long War wrote:
Abaddon beats Logan in every way.
it cumulated with the conquest of Segmentum Obscuras.

''conquest''

**Arcsquad12**

Easy, Huron Blackheart. While Grimnar and Abaddon punch each other, he takes the opportunity to highjack both their flagships and escape back to the Maelstrom. Dude has the second largest Chaos army after Abbadon, and billions of pirates and renegades to boot.

**Inkubas**

Abbadon

**anyeri**

So , ´till now, the only advantage Abby have over Grimnar is the 10k years of veterany, yeah, 10k years relaying in the favors of the 4 chaos powers, and the reason he is always making offerings to them, because he know that even with 10k of experience he needs the extra punch of daddy´s chaos gods.
When the fight happen and Logan is face to face with Abby, you now, the 4 gods feel that the fight is a perfect test to mr. chaos pony tail and leave him without the backup of the chaos gifts, becaus you know they are the chaos gods and they are a

s.
Clean fist against clean fist (and giant pony tail) i think Logan would win, because Logan relay in his strenght and cunning (as a feral wolf), and Abby relay to much on his chaos power to gain more power (like a hunter with a big rifle) but if he losee all the gifts given by the chaos is left like a naked baby in the woods (

the masquerade, anyone?) (so you take the big rifle and gear out of the hunter and you have nothing more than a scare man in the woods)
Ironically, power is the deafeat of Abby, all those power granted by the chaos would make him so confident to himself that will understimated Logan, but in the fight of pure an raw skill (without fancy claws or crazy daemons swords) Logan will overcome his adversary, thanks to his skill been developed figthing without relaying on fancy powers or equipent, Logan always win his fight by pure skill, strenght and cunning

PD: pardon the bad english, i had a long shift on my job

**Jayden63**

I'm going to go with the Despoiler on this one. I love Logan as much as the next SW fanboy, but there is no way any SM character can stand up to Abby. You can take away their armor, you can take away their weapons. But you can't take away their fight and Abby pretty much wins this hands down. I also find it pretty hard to believe that the Chaos Gods can turn on and off their gifts on a whim (or would even bother to do so). So any advantages the four big powers have given Abby, he takes them into battle.

Abbys crusades have all fallen because he is one man in a legion and what he needs is a Legion of one man.

**BrianDavion**

Jayden63 wrote:
I'm going to go with the Despoiler on this one. I love Logan as much as the next SW fanboy, but there is no way any SM character can stand up to Abby. You can take away their armor, you can take away their weapons. But you can't take away their fight and Abby pretty much wins this hands down. I also find it pretty hard to believe that the Chaos Gods can turn on and off their gifts on a whim (or would even bother to do so). So any advantages the four big powers have given Abby, he takes them into battle.

Abbys crusades have all fallen because he is one man in a legion and what he needs is a Legion of one man.

I'm not sure I'd say his crusades have fallen eaither. in all of the black crusades he's acheived his war aims. the Imperium just has a tendancy to when Abby gets what he wants and pulls out, to declare victory. in fairness a lot of the time they're in the dark what the crusade is really about.

Pandorax is a pretty good example, in small scale, of the black crusades really

**Quickjager**

I'm giving the win to Abby here, he has too many feats to deny his superiority. Just the fact he beat a clone of Horus, the person who put the Big E on his throne, speaks enough about his prowess.

I think its safe to say anyone. save a Primarch, isn't GUARANTEED to beat him.

**Abadabadoobaddon**

Quickjager wrote:
I'm giving the win to Abby here, he has too many feats to deny his superiority. Just the fact he beat a clone of Horus, the person who put the Big E on his throne, speaks enough about his prowess.

I think its safe to say anyone. save a Primarch, isn't GUARANTEED to beat him.

Draigo would defeat him with a single blow and not so much as a scratch. It's flat out stated that the Chaos gods themselves are not powerful enough to overcome Draigo within their own realms. Their pawn Abaddon wouldn't stand a chance.

**BrianDavion**

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
Quickjager wrote:
I'm giving the win to Abby here, he has too many feats to deny his superiority. Just the fact he beat a clone of Horus, the person who put the Big E on his throne, speaks enough about his prowess.

I think its safe to say anyone. save a Primarch, isn't GUARANTEED to beat him.

Draigo would defeat him with a single blow and not so much as a scratch. It's flat out stated that the Chaos gods themselves are not powerful enough to overcome Draigo within their own realms. Their pawn Abaddon wouldn't stand a chance.

A Submarine can sink a battleship, but a destroyer can sink a submarine, does this imply a destroyer is more powerful then a battleship?

Dragio is basicly a anti-deamon SPECIALIST. it does NOT stand to reason he'd nesscarily be able to pwn any chaos Marine simply because of his skill vs deamons.

Dragio vs abby would be a good fight, and eaither could win, that said Abby has the edge in terms of speed and skill according to their codex entries.

**Spetulhu**

A guy called "the armless" against someone called "wolf wolf wolf something?" That's so far from a fair fight that Abby can just stay home and sulk instead. He's been useless for ten millennia, waiting for Logan to die of old age isn't going to make any difference.

**mitch_rifle**

Abaddon. No argument

**Deadshot**

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
Quickjager wrote:
I'm giving the win to Abby here, he has too many feats to deny his superiority. Just the fact he beat a clone of Horus, the person who put the Big E on his throne, speaks enough about his prowess.

I think its safe to say anyone. save a Primarch, isn't GUARANTEED to beat him.

Draigo would defeat him with a single blow and not so much as a scratch. It's flat out stated that the Chaos gods themselves are not powerful enough to overcome Draigo within their own realms. Their pawn Abaddon wouldn't stand a chance.

Its not that. In the new Codex, a Greater Daemon of Tzeentch is literally unable to see Draigo, and sees just a black mark where Draigo is. Nor can he predict anything Draigo does. The passage cites that Draigo's fate is promised to another, which is M'kar. In the same Codex, M'kar promises Draigo ten millenia of pain and torment. That's a prophecy/curse. Draigo can't die until 999M51.

**mitch_rifle**

OMFG draigo fluff really?

**Deadshot**

mitch_rifle wrote:
OMFG draigo fluff really?

Yeah, really. Do you have a problem with that?

**BlaxicanX**

Abaddon got whooped in single combat by Eldrad and had to get teleported away by the Gods to avoid being Fatality'd.

Logan Grimnar by comparison has speed-blitzed Grey Knights- specifically, beheading a Grey Knights Grandmaster with such speed that the other Grey Knights and Inquisitors in the room didn't comprehend that the Grand Master had just been decapitated until Grimnar was teleporting away back to his ship.

/thread

**Iron_Captain**

The matter is simple:
Who has the most intimidating beard? Logan Grimnar of course!
Abbadon is a hairless pussy eunuch and will therefore die from shock alone when faced with Grimnar's manliness.

**BrianDavion**

BlaxicanX wrote:
Abaddon got whooped in single combat by Eldrad and had to get teleported away by the Gods to avoid being Fatality'd.

Logan Grimnar by comparison has speed-blitzed Grey Knights- specifically, beheading a Grey Knights Grandmaster with such speed that the other Grey Knights and Inquisitors in the room didn't comprehend that the Grand Master had just been decapitated until Grimnar was teleporting away back to his ship.

/thread

you keep repeating that like his killing a man who under estimated Logan and idioticly expected him to maintain a flag of truce once broken was any great acheivement.

**thenoobbomb**

Iron_Captain wrote:
The matter is simple:
Who has the most intimidating beard? Logan Grimnar of course!
Abbadon is a hairless pussy eunuch and will therefore die from shock alone when faced with Grimnar's manliness.

Logan's the one with the stupid sleigh and wolf-murder-claws.
Who's the manliest now, huh?

**Iron_Captain**

thenoobbomb wrote:
Iron_Captain wrote:
The matter is simple:
Who has the most intimidating beard? Logan Grimnar of course!
Abbadon is a hairless pussy eunuch and will therefore die from shock alone when faced with Grimnar's manliness.

Logan's the one with the stupid sleigh and wolf-murder-claws.
Who's the manliest now, huh?

Well, that is a valid point...
Still, as long as Abbadon keeps on using that laughable hairstyle, he will always lose automatically. Unless Logan laughs himself to death upon seeing Abbadon's ridiculous hair tower of course. It is almost on the same level of silliness as old Nagash's hat

**mitch_rifle**

Deadshot wrote:
mitch_rifle wrote:
OMFG draigo fluff really?

Yeah, really. Do you have a problem with that?

Yes it is a character which was written by frankly a crappy writer, and completely disregards the lore and story of 40k

Abaddon, the chaos gods, the primarchs etc. have all been around for some time, each story being developed for 20 odd years in conjuction with the fluff

All completely disregarded in the manner of a few pen strokes.

**Deadshot**

mitch_rifle wrote:
Deadshot wrote:
mitch_rifle wrote:
OMFG draigo fluff really?

Yeah, really. Do you have a problem with that?

Yes it is a character which was written by frankly a crappy writer, and completely disregards the lore and story of 40k

Abaddon, the chaos gods, the primarchs etc. have all been around for some time, each story being developed for 20 odd years in conjuction with the fluff

All completely disregarded in the manner of a few pen strokes.

To each their own. Frankly, I'm in no mood to argue about it, so good day sir.

**Quickjager**

For some reason people expect Abby to be meeting Mr. Wolfie under a flag of truce and with his weapons sheathed. If a surprise attack on a idiot counts as a feat when your weapon is already drawn and his isn't then I believe we have more Heroes of the Imperium than you can shake a warding stave at.

If the Space Wolf standard is they way Logan acts, then that's sad, he may have a grasp of tactics, but if "MUH HONOR!!1!" is his motivation for the majority of his actions then we're probably going to see a repeat of the Battle of the Fang.

Oh wait.

If you ask me Bjorn The Fell-Handed has a better chance of beating Abby. But you don't see any SW nominating him! He hates the reverence people hold him with, he sees himself as a warrior, he hates the decorations the SW of the 40k era put on his chasis. He's got more experience than Logan, more firepower, tango-ed with a Primarch, and has saved the SW chapter more times than not.