Logan Grimnar vs Abaddon the Despoiler?

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**ZebioLizard2**

Iron_Captain wrote:
thenoobbomb wrote:
Iron_Captain wrote:
The matter is simple:
Who has the most intimidating beard? Logan Grimnar of course!
Abbadon is a hairless pussy eunuch and will therefore die from shock alone when faced with Grimnar's manliness.

Logan's the one with the stupid sleigh and wolf-murder-claws.
Who's the manliest now, huh?
Well, that is a valid point...
Still, as long as Abbadon keeps on using that laughable hairstyle, he will always lose automatically. Unless Logan laughs himself to death upon seeing Abbadon's ridiculous hair tower of course. It is almost on the same level of silliness as old Nagash's hat

What's wrong with the topknot?

**Deadshot**

Iron_Captain wrote:
thenoobbomb wrote:
Iron_Captain wrote:
The matter is simple:
Who has the most intimidating beard? Logan Grimnar of course!
Abbadon is a hairless pussy eunuch and will therefore die from shock alone when faced with Grimnar's manliness.

Logan's the one with the stupid sleigh and wolf-murder-claws.
Who's the manliest now, huh?
Well, that is a valid point...
Still, as long as Abbadon keeps on using that laughable hairstyle, he will always lose automatically. Unless Logan laughs himself to death upon seeing Abbadon's ridiculous hair tower of course. It is almost on the same level of silliness as old Nagash's hat

Until Abaddon lets it down, forming a beard that puts the whole SW chapter to shame, who procede to slink away in shame.

**Iron_Captain**

ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Iron_Captain wrote:
thenoobbomb wrote:
Iron_Captain wrote:
The matter is simple:
Who has the most intimidating beard? Logan Grimnar of course!
Abbadon is a hairless pussy eunuch and will therefore die from shock alone when faced with Grimnar's manliness.

Logan's the one with the stupid sleigh and wolf-murder-claws.
Who's the manliest now, huh?
Well, that is a valid point...
Still, as long as Abbadon keeps on using that laughable hairstyle, he will always lose automatically. Unless Logan laughs himself to death upon seeing Abbadon's ridiculous hair tower of course. It is almost on the same level of silliness as old Nagash's hat

What's wrong with the topknot?

Better ask what isn't wrong with it

It is not a topknot, it is a toptower!

**BrianDavion**

mitch_rifle wrote:
Deadshot wrote:
mitch_rifle wrote:
OMFG draigo fluff really?

Yeah, really. Do you have a problem with that?

Yes it is a character which was written by frankly a crappy writer, and completely disregards the lore and story of 40k

Abaddon, the chaos gods, the primarchs etc. have all been around for some time, each story being developed for 20 odd years in conjuction with the fluff

All completely disregarded in the manner of a few pen strokes.

Which is proably why 7th Ed's GK codex has toned it down very slightly (for one thing not telling us anything about what he's doing in the warp. in fact he's only JUST been trapped there) I honestly don't think there's anything with the current fluff that is terriably "disregarding of canon" especially as the audio drama explains they had Mortorian's true name

**Exergy**

purplefood wrote:
Abbaddon would win but it's not like he'd do it easily...
Grimnar hasn't been chapter master of the SW for over 500 years for no reason...

What is harder, being chapter master of the SW or being warmaster of all of the Chaos forces in the eye, battling usurpers and treatury at the momenet notice?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Amaya wrote:
In game they're roughly equal.

Abaddon strikes first regardless. 1/6 chance of hitting himself, has an average of 7.5 attacks per turn. 5 hits, 4.17 wounds, 2.13 unsaved wounds.

Logan gets +1 attack once per game and has Preferred Enemy. 6 Attacks, 5.3 hits, 4.42 wounds, 2.21 unsaved wounds.

Logan has less wounds so he should lose in round 1 if Abaddon rolls a 6 and gets 10 attacks, or round 2 if Abaddon rolls poorly. Abaddon should win the majority of the time (4/5), but the odds of him striking himself increase as the fight goes on. Should he roll a 1 in round 1 or 2 he will probably lose.

Logan makes up for his comparable lack in melee by being a superior force multiplier.

Abaddon also has PE and hatred....

**Abadabadoobaddon**

BrianDavion wrote:
mitch_rifle wrote:
Deadshot wrote:
mitch_rifle wrote:
OMFG draigo fluff really?

Yeah, really. Do you have a problem with that?

Yes it is a character which was written by frankly a crappy writer, and completely disregards the lore and story of 40k

Abaddon, the chaos gods, the primarchs etc. have all been around for some time, each story being developed for 20 odd years in conjuction with the fluff

All completely disregarded in the manner of a few pen strokes.

Which is proably why 7th Ed's GK codex has toned it down very slightly (for one thing not telling us anything about what he's doing in the warp. in fact he's only JUST been trapped there) I honestly don't think there's anything with the current fluff that is terriably "disregarding of canon" especially as the audio drama explains they had Mortorian's true name

Just out of curiosity, what is Mortarion's true name? Is it "Mortarion"? Because that might explain why Ezekyle Abaddon doesn't want to be a daemon prince.

**BrianDavion**

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
mitch_rifle wrote:
Deadshot wrote:
mitch_rifle wrote:
OMFG draigo fluff really?

Yeah, really. Do you have a problem with that?

Yes it is a character which was written by frankly a crappy writer, and completely disregards the lore and story of 40k

Abaddon, the chaos gods, the primarchs etc. have all been around for some time, each story being developed for 20 odd years in conjuction with the fluff

All completely disregarded in the manner of a few pen strokes.

Which is proably why 7th Ed's GK codex has toned it down very slightly (for one thing not telling us anything about what he's doing in the warp. in fact he's only JUST been trapped there) I honestly don't think there's anything with the current fluff that is terriably "disregarding of canon" especially as the audio drama explains they had Mortorian's true name

Just out of curiosity, what is Mortarion's true name? Is it "Mortarion"? Because that might explain why Ezekyle Abaddon doesn't want to be a daemon prince.

I've not heard the audio drama first hand so I'm not sure they nesscarily spell it out, but no it's not. His true name is apparently the name the Emperor gave him.

**Deadshot**

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
mitch_rifle wrote:
Deadshot wrote:
mitch_rifle wrote:
OMFG draigo fluff really?

Yeah, really. Do you have a problem with that?

Yes it is a character which was written by frankly a crappy writer, and completely disregards the lore and story of 40k

Abaddon, the chaos gods, the primarchs etc. have all been around for some time, each story being developed for 20 odd years in conjuction with the fluff

All completely disregarded in the manner of a few pen strokes.

Which is proably why 7th Ed's GK codex has toned it down very slightly (for one thing not telling us anything about what he's doing in the warp. in fact he's only JUST been trapped there) I honestly don't think there's anything with the current fluff that is terriably "disregarding of canon" especially as the audio drama explains they had Mortorian's true name

Just out of curiosity, what is Mortarion's true name? Is it "Mortarion"? Because that might explain why Ezekyle Abaddon doesn't want to be a daemon prince.

Mortarion is the name the tyrant on Barbarus gave him. Draigo knew the name the Emperor orginally intended to call him, his True Name.

**Abadabadoobaddon**

Deadshot wrote:
Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
mitch_rifle wrote:
Deadshot wrote:
mitch_rifle wrote:
OMFG draigo fluff really?

Yeah, really. Do you have a problem with that?

Yes it is a character which was written by frankly a crappy writer, and completely disregards the lore and story of 40k

Abaddon, the chaos gods, the primarchs etc. have all been around for some time, each story being developed for 20 odd years in conjuction with the fluff

All completely disregarded in the manner of a few pen strokes.

Which is proably why 7th Ed's GK codex has toned it down very slightly (for one thing not telling us anything about what he's doing in the warp. in fact he's only JUST been trapped there) I honestly don't think there's anything with the current fluff that is terriably "disregarding of canon" especially as the audio drama explains they had Mortorian's true name

Just out of curiosity, what is Mortarion's true name? Is it "Mortarion"? Because that might explain why Ezekyle Abaddon doesn't want to be a daemon prince.

Mortarion is the name the tyrant on Barbarus gave him. Draigo knew the name the Emperor orginally intended to call him, his True Name.

I was kinda joking. I actually assumed his daemon true name would have been something bestowed upon him by Nurgle. If a daemon prince's true name is just his original mortal name then that's actually a very glaring weakness, and well... kinda dumb.

So assuming Ezekyle Abaddon is actually the Warmaster's given name that would be a very good reason for him to never ever become a daemon prince - he's so notorious your average imperial citizen would be able to banish him.

**BrianDavion**

I suppose that depends on the nature of true names, I suspect in most cases someone's true name is not simply their birthname. in the case of the Primarchs however, because of how the Primarchs where created, by as much sorcery as science, it may be that the name the emperor intended for them thus was, due to the unique circumstances of what they are, what would become their true name

**Ironclad Warlord**

Abaddon puts Grimmars head on a stake, why are we even having this conversation?

**Happyjew**

Ironclad Warlord wrote:
Abaddon puts Grimmars head on a stake, why are we even having this conversation?

Because some people disagree with you. If everybody agreed, there would be no discussion.

**Relapse**

Corruption wrote:
Straight up fisty cuff, no other factors. Who wins.

Just use their game stats. Straight up WS, Wounds, Initiative, Strength, and Attacks without benifit of armor saves unless it's an inate ability or skill. What does Math Hammer tell us?

**Quickjager**

Relapse wrote:
Corruption wrote:
Straight up fisty cuff, no other factors. Who wins.

Just use their game stats. Straight up WS, Wounds, Initiative, Strength, and Attacks without benifit of armor saves unless it's an inate ability or skill. What does Math Hammer tell us?

Abby still wins

**Relapse**

Quickjager wrote:
Relapse wrote:
Corruption wrote:
Straight up fisty cuff, no other factors. Who wins.

Just use their game stats. Straight up WS, Wounds, Initiative, Strength, and Attacks without benifit of armor saves unless it's an inate ability or skill. What does Math Hammer tell us?

Abby still wins

It's settled, then.

**Happyjew**

Using book stats, assuming no charge bonuses, no weapons, no armour. Mathhammer away.

Abaddon attacks first with 4 attacks, hitting 3.556 times, inflicting 1.778 Wounds.

Logan retaliates with 5 attacks, hitting 2.5 times, inflicting .694 Wounds (remember, Abaddon still has his marks, so he will have a 6++ save).

Turn 2+, Abaddon no longer benefits from Hatred and as such will average 1.333 Wounds, while Logan is still getting less than 1.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
If we take out the marks...

Abaddon drops to 1.333 Wounds per turn vs Logan's 1.25 Wounds.

Abaddon still wins.

**koooaei**

Logan Grimnar's sleigh is his beard. Actually, anything below Logan's chin is his beard. And opponents treat area within 6' of Logan as beard and dangerous. That's how manly he is.

Spoiler:

**BlaxicanX**

BrianDavion wrote:
you keep repeating that like his killing a man who under estimated Logan and idioticly expected him to maintain a flag of truce once broken was any great acheivement.

You say this expecting me to care.

The Grand Master "underestimating" Logan is entirely irrelevant, considering he was looking right at Logan when he drew his weapon and proceeded to chop his head off. The Grand Master might not have been expecting Logan to attack him initially, but one would think that:

"Hmm, he's drawing his huge fething axe while glaring at me"

"Hmm, he's stepping toward me with his huge fething axe while glaring at me"

"Hmm, he's raising his huge fething axe while stepping toward me while glaring at me"

"Hmm, he's swinging his huge fething axe at me while glaring at me"

would be a decent indication of Grimnar's intentions.

But it didn't matter, as Logan kjust killed him before he could react in any way.

Meanwhile, who's Abaddon beaten again? He lost to a 10,000 year old Eldrad who's confirmed to be on his proverbial death-bed... would have lost to Loken had he not been wearing armor that made him completely invulnerable to Loken's attacks, any other feats of single combat worth nothing?

Come on, Dakka. Impress me.

**Ashiraya**

The answer, of course, is that

Eldrad who's confirmed to be on his proverbial death-bed

and

Loken

>>>>>>>>>

Grimnar

See, it all makes sense.

**Relapse**

BlaxicanX wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
you keep repeating that like his killing a man who under estimated Logan and idioticly expected him to maintain a flag of truce once broken was any great acheivement.

You say this expecting me to care.

The Grand Master "underestimating" Logan is entirely irrelevant, considering he was looking right at Logan when he drew his weapon and proceeded to chop his head off. The Grand Master might not have been expecting Logan to attack him initially, but one would think that:

"Hmm, he's drawing his huge fething axe while glaring at me"

"Hmm, he's stepping toward me with his huge fething axe while glaring at me"

"Hmm, he's raising his huge fething axe while stepping toward me while glaring at me"

"Hmm, he's swinging his huge fething axe at me while glaring at me"

would be a decent indication of Grimnar's intentions.

But it didn't matter, as Logan kjust killed him before he could react in any way.

Meanwhile, who's Abaddon beaten again? He lost to a 10,000 year old Eldrad who's confirmed to be on his proverbial death-bed... would have lost to Loken had he not been wearing armor that made him completely invulnerable to Loken's attacks, any other feats of single combat worth nothing?

Come on, Dakka. Impress me.

The Math Hammer science is proven. Abbadon wins, game over.

**MarsNZ**

BlaxicanX wrote:

Meanwhile, who's Abaddon beaten again? He lost to a 10,000 year old Eldrad who's confirmed to be on his proverbial death-bed... would have lost to Loken had he not been wearing armor that made him completely invulnerable to Loken's attacks, any other feats of single combat worth nothing?

Come on, Dakka. Impress me.

Lol at the double standard. Abaddon ruins Loken, who cares about his armour. Logan was wearing his usual terminator gear when he cheapshotted the Grey Knight.

Also in the upcoming trilogy Abaddon kills someone much more impressive than this old wet dog.

Spoiler:

**ZebioLizard2**

MarsNZ wrote:
BlaxicanX wrote:

Meanwhile, who's Abaddon beaten again? He lost to a 10,000 year old Eldrad who's confirmed to be on his proverbial death-bed... would have lost to Loken had he not been wearing armor that made him completely invulnerable to Loken's attacks, any other feats of single combat worth nothing?

Come on, Dakka. Impress me.

Lol at the double standard. Abaddon ruins Loken, who cares about his armour. Logan was wearing his usual terminator gear when he cheapshotted the Grey Knight.

Also in the upcoming trilogy Abaddon kills someone much more impressive than this old wet dog.

Spoiler:

Sigismund

Whoa wait what you serious?

**tgjensen**

It's almost certain that the two will oppose each other - the author has said as much - but we don't strictly know what happens or how. I mean, one of them is obviously still alive in the 41st millenium and the other one almost certainly isn't, so...

**CShaffer**

BlaxicanX wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
you keep repeating that like his killing a man who under estimated Logan and idioticly expected him to maintain a flag of truce once broken was any great acheivement.

You say this expecting me to care.

The Grand Master "underestimating" Logan is entirely irrelevant, considering he was looking right at Logan when he drew his weapon and proceeded to chop his head off. The Grand Master might not have been expecting Logan to attack him initially, but one would think that:

"Hmm, he's drawing his huge fething axe while glaring at me"

"Hmm, he's stepping toward me with his huge fething axe while glaring at me"

"Hmm, he's raising his huge fething axe while stepping toward me while glaring at me"

"Hmm, he's swinging his huge fething axe at me while glaring at me"

would be a decent indication of Grimnar's intentions.

But it didn't matter, as Logan kjust killed him before he could react in any way.

Meanwhile, who's Abaddon beaten again? He lost to a 10,000 year old Eldrad who's confirmed to be on his proverbial death-bed... would have lost to Loken had he not been wearing armor that made him completely invulnerable to Loken's attacks, any other feats of single combat worth nothing?

Come on, Dakka. Impress me.

What with the forces of the Imperium having pretty crazy plot armor, I'm pretty sure Abby would destroy a Grey Knights Grand Master.
He is literally The Warmaster of Chaos, what is Logan? Some old as dirt space marine, I'm sure he is powerful but Abby is just on another plane of power.
I don't think it would even be a solid fight if Logan wasn't a good guy and thus plot armor.

**Deadshot**

CShaffer wrote:
BlaxicanX wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
you keep repeating that like his killing a man who under estimated Logan and idioticly expected him to maintain a flag of truce once broken was any great acheivement.

You say this expecting me to care.

The Grand Master "underestimating" Logan is entirely irrelevant, considering he was looking right at Logan when he drew his weapon and proceeded to chop his head off. The Grand Master might not have been expecting Logan to attack him initially, but one would think that:

"Hmm, he's drawing his huge fething axe while glaring at me"

"Hmm, he's stepping toward me with his huge fething axe while glaring at me"

"Hmm, he's raising his huge fething axe while stepping toward me while glaring at me"

"Hmm, he's swinging his huge fething axe at me while glaring at me"

would be a decent indication of Grimnar's intentions.

But it didn't matter, as Logan kjust killed him before he could react in any way.

Meanwhile, who's Abaddon beaten again? He lost to a 10,000 year old Eldrad who's confirmed to be on his proverbial death-bed... would have lost to Loken had he not been wearing armor that made him completely invulnerable to Loken's attacks, any other feats of single combat worth nothing?

Come on, Dakka. Impress me.

What with the forces of the Imperium having pretty crazy plot armor, I'm pretty sure Abby would destroy a Grey Knights Grand Master.
He is literally The Warmaster of Chaos, what is Logan? Some old as dirt space marine, I'm sure he is powerful but Abby is just on another plane of power.
I don't think it would even be a solid fight if Logan wasn't a good guy and thus plot armor.

Abaddon has more plot armour than Logan has beard. Abaddon could have fought Loken literally stark naked with a stool sample and still won because of his plot armour.

**Ashiraya**

Why does Abaddon have plot armour?

**Deadshot**

Ashiraya wrote:
Why does Abaddon have plot armour?

Because he must lead the 13th Black Crusade we will never find out about. He literally cannot die until the Crusade is launched and we are frozen at a point in time just before that occurs.

**Ashiraya**

Deadshot wrote:
Ashiraya wrote:
Why does Abaddon have plot armour?

Because he must lead the 13th Black Crusade we will never find out about. He literally cannot die until the Crusade is launched and we are frozen at a point in time just before that occurs.

That's irrelevant. Any feat he performs could just as well be due to his own skill and might.

**CShaffer**

Deadshot wrote:
CShaffer wrote:
BlaxicanX wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
you keep repeating that like his killing a man who under estimated Logan and idioticly expected him to maintain a flag of truce once broken was any great acheivement.

You say this expecting me to care.

The Grand Master "underestimating" Logan is entirely irrelevant, considering he was looking right at Logan when he drew his weapon and proceeded to chop his head off. The Grand Master might not have been expecting Logan to attack him initially, but one would think that:

"Hmm, he's drawing his huge fething axe while glaring at me"

"Hmm, he's stepping toward me with his huge fething axe while glaring at me"

"Hmm, he's raising his huge fething axe while stepping toward me while glaring at me"

"Hmm, he's swinging his huge fething axe at me while glaring at me"

would be a decent indication of Grimnar's intentions.

But it didn't matter, as Logan kjust killed him before he could react in any way.

Meanwhile, who's Abaddon beaten again? He lost to a 10,000 year old Eldrad who's confirmed to be on his proverbial death-bed... would have lost to Loken had he not been wearing armor that made him completely invulnerable to Loken's attacks, any other feats of single combat worth nothing?

Come on, Dakka. Impress me.

What with the forces of the Imperium having pretty crazy plot armor, I'm pretty sure Abby would destroy a Grey Knights Grand Master.
He is literally The Warmaster of Chaos, what is Logan? Some old as dirt space marine, I'm sure he is powerful but Abby is just on another plane of power.
I don't think it would even be a solid fight if Logan wasn't a good guy and thus plot armor.

Abaddon has more plot armour than Logan has beard. Abaddon could have fought Loken literally stark naked with a stool sample and still won because of his plot armour.

Ok taking into account plot armor, nothing would happen because screw advancing storyline.
If we ignore both sides plot armor then Abby would rape due to the whole being the Warmaster of Chaos type situation, and Logan being an old space marine who has done some cool things in his time but was not pretty much second in command to the most honored space marine legion in history.

**PoisonWood**

Well going by most recent books only one Chaos Primarch even will have the gall to stand up to Abadon and even that Primarch will eventually take a knee to him. So unless ADB makes Grimnar even more powerful in his next book. (maybe Grimnar takes down a Titan legion on his own or something) Then we can have a fairer fight

Right now we have a guy who can beat a Horus Clone and make ALL the other Primarchs in the eye follow him whether they are willing or not (according to ADB). So if Primarchs are pretty much not of worry to Abaddon, I would think Grimnar would be a joke for him to contemplate.

So doesn't that mean that no-one that we know can beat Abaddon?