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Please delete.

kenofyork wrote:


www.proxiemodels.com


Been made in USA from the start, without the need to raise $8,000,000 from China first, or ask customers to loan me money for all my upfront costs.

20mm rounds have been available for years. 40 in a pack for $4.50.

Same price as retail, as I do not want to screw my wholesale customers.

Yes, I know I am being a jerk and expect to be attacked. But frankly I think it takes huge balls to wrap yourself in the flag, fireworks, and eagle AFTER you sold out and went to China.

I checked your link. Thanks? Anyway, this is all I could find in terms of 28mm infantry:



Besides, Reaper is known for their hundreds, if not thousands, of fantasy miniatures. Miniatures used in D&D and other role playing games, in addition to dioramas and such.

Most of what I see on Proxiemodels is the one unit of military dudes (below average compared to other mini companies), some OK scenery, and trucks/tanks.

That's not really Reaper's forte.

I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish.

 kronk wrote:

I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish.

It is entirely possible he's calling attention to the fact that Reaper's offerings in the bases KS are by no means unique, or praiseworthy. Proxie sells 40 20mm round bases for $4.50 et cetera. This is merely a theory on my part.

Talking about kickstarter whens Reaper 3 meant to hit retail?

I see Ken's point. Bought more than my fair share of bases from him. Planning on doing so as soon as I run out of them for my current project.

I like that they're locally grown here in the States. I like the prices. I like the selection.

For a big company like Reaper to want me to commit money up front for a similar product that I can already get at very reasonable prices with relatively little turnaround time, IMMEDIATELY, it's got to be one heck of a sweeter deal than it currently is on offer.

He means that bases like they are making are already available, produced in the USA. There are some sizes in Reaper's KS that Proxie doesnt have, but in general, this is a pretty boring KS with the option to save a tiny amount by buying a product already available 6 months in advance.

 Agamemnon2 wrote:

 kronk wrote:

I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish.

It is entirely possible he's calling attention to the fact that Reaper's offerings in the bases KS are by no means unique, or praiseworthy. Proxie sells 40 20mm round bases for $4.50 et cetera. This is merely a theory on my part.

Ah, it's all about the base, the base, no minis.

That's fine to gripe about, I guess. I'm personally not interested at all in Reaper's bases. I use GW and Secret Weapon Miniatures resin bases for my 40k minis and my Reaper D&D minis.

kenofyork wrote:


www.proxiemodels.com


Been made in USA from the start, without the need to raise $8,000,000 from China first, or ask customers to loan me money for all my upfront costs.

20mm rounds have been available for years. 40 in a pack for $4.50.

Same price as retail, as I do not want to screw my wholesale customers.

Yes, I know I am being a jerk and expect to be attacked. But frankly I think it takes huge balls to wrap yourself in the flag, fireworks, and eagle AFTER you sold out and went to China.

I'm a customer of yours and will continue to be one when I need new bases, or when you finish your next kit. However, I'm not on the same page with you attacking Reaper for manufacturing in China. Pointing out that you already make bases at great prices is one thing. Pointing out Reaper is almost Mantic levels of Kickstarter-happy is another. Calling them sell outs for using their only real manufacturing option to release their Bones ranges is too far for me. They are using Chinese factories, the same way 90% of miniatures companies do, because otherwise they could not make a product worth selling at a price people would pay for it.

I don't see the bases KS doing well at all. When I need bases, it's because I need them right away, and I buy them right away. The cost is generally so low as to be almost negligible. There is not really any discount that could induce me to want to wait a year to receive my bases. I've no idea what bases I will need in a year's time. I don't know any wargamers who do, really.

I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish.

The point of my post, which I admit is ill advised and sure to piss people off, was to point out that the kick starter clearly is trying to play up the made in USA aspect. Which is fine, but it needs to be mentioned that a huge amount of stuff made by Reaper came via China. I got a little upset seeing all the patriotic imagery and posted when I should have counted to 1000.

Proxie Models is just a one person part time shop in my back yard. I have no intention or delusions of grandeur to aspire to be like Reaper. Frankly it keeps me very busy just making stuff and working my regular job.

I apologize to Reaper for any harm I may have caused. I simply loved Reaper minis for years and have a huge collection. When they went to China it left me feeling more than a little down. Of course when my own factory outsourced whole departments to Mexico it was a bit of a bummer as well.

This issue is going to continue to impact more and more people over time, but as of now gamers are just delighted to have loads of cheap stuff. Thankfully I am retired in 3 years and my future is pretty safe.

Kudos to Reaper for making some stuff in the USA. Even though it is going to kill my own business, it is a step in the right direction.

I would like to point out one new aspect of this issue. Chinese retailers are selling more and more directly on e-bay and Amazon. By-passing the importers. I do not know how but they are getting subsidized shipping. It costs less to ship from China than it does to ship across your own state. This is going to start cutting a lot of people soon.

I feel sorry for the young people. You are faced with a future of huge student loans, massive taxes, and jobs as temps.

 Ian Sturrock wrote:
I don't see the bases KS doing well at all. When I need bases, it's because I need them right away, and I buy them right away. The cost is generally so low as to be almost negligible. There is not really any discount that could induce me to want to wait a year to receive my bases. I've no idea what bases I will need in a year's time. I don't know any wargamers who do, really.

Fulfillment is in February.

I actually kind of like the idea, but pitching a kickstarter for a grabbag of bases for future projects might be the least sexy kickstarter ever.

Not to sound overly dramatic, but a kickstarter to allow a fairly major company to start production of a product identical to products already on the market might be the final moment when Kickstarter is fully a loan/preorder platform.

kenofyork wrote:

I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish.

The point of my post, which I admit is ill advised and sure to piss people off, was to point out that the kick starter clearly is trying to play up the made in USA aspect. Which is fine, but it needs to be mentioned that a huge amount of stuff made by Reaper came via China. I got a little upset seeing all the patriotic imagery and posted when I should have counted to 1000.

So you're upset that Reaper is advertising a product that is made in the USA as being made in the USA, because they have different products made in China?

Ok...

So you're upset that Reaper is advertising a product that is made in the USA as being made in the USA, because they have different products made in China?

This is a deliberate attempt to alter the meaning by re-phrasing.

No, it is not what I mean. Or meant.



I think I best keep my mouth shut and fade back in to the corner.

There is a reason why I try to stay off forums- it is a no win situation.

Again I apologize for my negative comments. I would like to wish them luck in any future endeavors.

kenofyork wrote:

So you're upset that Reaper is advertising a product that is made in the USA as being made in the USA, because they have different products made in China?

I think I best keep my mouth shut and fade back in to the corner.

There is a reason why I try to stay off forums- it is a no win situation.

It would be an instant win if those Amazons showed up!

kenofyork wrote:
There is a reason why I try to stay off forums- it is a no win situation.

Not really. I think you could have dropped a line saying that you currently make a range of plastic bases in the US, and that if people are interested, you can ship them immediately.

You can gain positive notice for your business by stressing what's positive about it.

If you show up as a business owner critiquing, even fairly, another business owner, it comes off as drama, and people love drama.

Looking at your first post, even if you had just kept off the last line, you would come off as fun and snarky rather than bitter.

Also, it should be pretty apparent that if you find yourself adding the line "I know I am being a jerk and expect to be attacked" than you should absolutely rephrase what you are saying, unless being attacked is what you want.

We've never met, but I'm friends with people that have done business with you, and I totally get why this would be frustrating to you. There's probably a better place to let it all out.

kenofyork wrote:

So you're upset that Reaper is advertising a product that is made in the USA as being made in the USA, because they have different products made in China?

This is a deliberate attempt to alter the meaning by re-phrasing.

No, it is not what I mean. Or meant.

Huh. Because that's exactly what it sounds like. Not sure what other meaning you're trying to convey.

 Polonius wrote:

kenofyork wrote:
There is a reason why I try to stay off forums- it is a no win situation.

Not really. I think you could have dropped a line saying that you currently make a range of plastic bases in the US, and that if people are interested, you can ship them immediately.

You can gain positive notice for your business by stressing what's positive about it.

Agreed on this.

I had no idea you existed, and now I know where I can get bases, should the need arise.

Again, I prefer Secret Weapon Miniatures sculpted resin bases so that my 40k armies are uniform and fething awesome, so the Reaper ones don't do ANYTHING for me.

kenofyork wrote:

I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish.

The point of my post, which I admit is ill advised and sure to piss people off, was to point out that the kick starter clearly is trying to play up the made in USA aspect. Which is fine, but it needs to be mentioned that a huge amount of stuff made by Reaper came via China. I got a little upset seeing all the patriotic imagery and posted when I should have counted to 1000.

Yes it was, and yes it did - you turned what could have been a selling point into a reason to avoid Proxie Models.

Until your post, I had never heard of Proxie - and now the only reference that I have is a negative one. (I am fighting down the urge to make sarcastic remarks.)

Proxie Models is just a one person part time shop in my back yard. I have no intention or delusions of grandeur to aspire to be like Reaper. Frankly it keeps me very busy just making stuff and working my regular job.

I apologize to Reaper for any harm I may have caused. I simply loved Reaper minis for years and have a huge collection. When they went to China it left me feeling more than a little down. Of course when my own factory outsourced whole departments to Mexico it was a bit of a bummer as well.

This issue is going to continue to impact more and more people over time, but as of now gamers are just delighted to have loads of cheap stuff. Thankfully I am retired in 3 years and my future is pretty safe.

Kudos to Reaper for making some stuff in the USA. Even though it is going to kill my own business, it is a step in the right direction.

I would like to point out one new aspect of this issue. Chinese retailers are selling more and more directly on e-bay and Amazon. By-passing the importers. I do not know how but they are getting subsidized shipping. It costs less to ship from China than it does to ship across your own state. This is going to start cutting a lot of people soon.

I feel sorry for the young people. You are faced with a future of huge student loans, massive taxes, and jobs as temps.

And then you go back to the attack, this time from the oblique.

Yeah, Proxie will not be seeing my business any time soon.

The Auld Grump

Holy gak, they finally do a ROW friendly KS and it's for bases..

If Proxie Miniatures releases more miniatures, I'll ignore any remarks they make at Reapers Expense.

I think we have thoroughly discussed Proxie at this point.

Feel free to start a discussion thread if there's more to say on Proxie, Chinese production or various basing options.

On topic, I'm not excited about the base kickstarter. The only bases that I'd actually be interested in buying cheap bulk at this point are the oval ones, but 40K uses soo many different sizes at this point I'm not even shure which ones I would use.

Anyone know what oval base, from the kickstarter, would be appropriate for 40K bike sized models ?

I've got about 20 custom ork bikes, on my to do list, that could use bases.

With the mess 40K is in, does it really matter?

GW has given up any attempt at standardizing basing and now it's far to late to introduce something like that. Especially for bikes, which is probably the troop type in 40K that has been the most eclectically based of all.

We've seen everything from 25x50 squares, 50mm rounds, at least like three different types of oval bases, no bases etc. GW will never make any ruling on that, and I don't think any tournament will be able to either since people have models based all kind of different ways. As long as someone isn't obviously attempting to get a unreasonable advantage it'll be fine.

Just get whatever oval base is a good fit for the bike models. For the new Ork bikes I'd say around 60-70mm long and 40mm wide should fit well, and give you some space for scenery, rocks or whatever you use to base.

 Nostromodamus wrote:

kenofyork wrote:

So you're upset that Reaper is advertising a product that is made in the USA as being made in the USA, because they have different products made in China?

This is a deliberate attempt to alter the meaning by re-phrasing.

No, it is not what I mean. Or meant.

Huh. Because that's exactly what it sounds like. Not sure what other meaning you're trying to convey.

I like most of your posts. I know you aren't daft.

Seems fairly obvious, from his own posting, that he felt like (at the time of his posting) that any company who has a large part of it's process in China is being dishonorable/fake/disingenuous by making an advertisement covered in pro-america imagery. He also said, "I should have counted to 1000 and thought about it instead of posting right away."

Stop busting his balls to be internet tough. He posted how he felt, explained it, then explained he was going to back off that position because he didn't think it through.

On point,

My local store stocks Reaper stuff, including bases, fairly regularly. This can only be good for me, as I'm about to finally start rebasing my fantasy to rounds for sigmar. More people making more things that aren't GW is always a win in my book.

 Thunderfrog wrote:

 Nostromodamus wrote:

kenofyork wrote:

So you're upset that Reaper is advertising a product that is made in the USA as being made in the USA, because they have different products made in China?

This is a deliberate attempt to alter the meaning by re-phrasing.

No, it is not what I mean. Or meant.

Huh. Because that's exactly what it sounds like. Not sure what other meaning you're trying to convey.

I like most of your posts. I know you aren't daft.

Seems fairly obvious, from his own posting, that he felt like (at the time of his posting) that any company who has a large part of it's process in China is being dishonorable/fake/disingenuous by making an advertisement covered in pro-america imagery. He also said, "I should have counted to 1000 and thought about it instead of posting right away."

Stop busting his balls to be internet tough. He posted how he felt, explained it, then explained he was going to back off that position because he didn't think it through.

On point,

My local store stocks Reaper stuff, including bases, fairly regularly. This can only be good for me, as I'm about to finally start rebasing my fantasy to rounds for sigmar. More people making more things that aren't GW is always a win in my book.

He posted in a thread about another company - in other words, he was being 'internet tough'.

And his reply continued to try to make that same point from the oblique, thinly disguised as an apology - so he can go hang.

On topic - one thing that I do not see in the list of bases - Unit bases/movement trays/diorama bases. Large bases that can be used to mount entire units or build small dioramas. (I play Kings of War....)

Reaper has stated that they won't be making scenic bases, feeling that Secret Weapon and other companies are doing well in that market.

The Auld Grump

Movement trays or big large bases for multiple units would probably get me to seriously consider putting a pledge in.

If the bases are like the ones included in Bones 2, they will be very plain. Vanilla plain. Bagel with butter plain. Vice presidential. Positioned only for missionaries.



And it strikes me as odd that one set of bases can stand out among plastic bases for being the unexciting option.

Movingtrays/Diorama bases, really?

There are more than one place already selling such in plastic even (not to mention how easy they are to cut out from plasticard). And there's approximately a million additional places that sell them in custom sizes if you're ok with MDF.

Why pay in advance and wait for months for something you can buy or easily make yourself today?

Round and oval bases are a different matter as they're not nearly as easy to construct yourself.

Hrm. It seems the trend for Reaper has been progressively less exciting Kickstarters, and now we are at bases. Plain bases.

I really don't see what this offers as there are cheap plain bases widely available.