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Made in de
Regular Dakkanaut





Aeri wrote:



Dronecontroller Stacking



If you read the rules for them, you'll find that DCs unfortunately don't stack.
   
Made in il
Warplord Titan Princeps of Tzeentch






Aeri wrote:

Dronecontroller Stacking
All auras can be stacked!
3 Crisis suits with Dronecontrollers make Drones in 6'' BF 2+ - for 15 points total!
Add an Ethereal and you have twin linked bf 2+ marker drones. easy to get those 5 hits I'd say.


No they don't, auras work if you have the unit within range to a aura giver, but not the same aura twice, due to the way they are worded.


Aeri wrote:
Homing Beacons are evil!
Remember how you can only Mantastrike up to 9'' to an enemy unit?
Well, just get a unit of Stealth Suits in there and put down a homing beacon.
The beacon has to be 9'' away from any enemy model aswell, but instead of Manta Striking you can make a low altitude drop, allowing you to place the models within 6'' of the homing beacon.
That can be up to 3'' of enemy units - 9 Flamers I hear you say? (Beacon 9'' away, 6'' bubble --> 3'' distance)



And then the enemy just steps towards the stealth suits, end their move within 9" of the beacon, and the beacon is destroyed. (also, charge the stealth suits and kill them)



Now, you know what I just noticed?
Our big suits-they pack heavy guns, and no ability to let them move and shoot in regular BS.
So yea, they cost much more, can't JSJ, cant even walk and shoot properly on our meager BS3 AND the markerlights took a heavy nerf.

If you thought you'll play tau as anything but an infantry gunline in 8th, you're going to have a bad time.

can neither confirm nor deny I lost track of what I've got right now. 
   
Made in de
Regular Dakkanaut





 BoomWolf wrote:




Now, you know what I just noticed?
Our big suits-they pack heavy guns, and no ability to let them move and shoot in regular BS.
So yea, they cost much more, can't JSJ, cant even walk and shoot properly on our meager BS3 AND the markerlights took a heavy nerf.

If you thought you'll play tau as anything but an infantry gunline in 8th, you're going to have a bad time.


So everything that doesn't utilize big suits is an infantry gunline? Also, you can take Target Lock on all of our suits and Markerlights will do the trick, too.

Combined arms Tau looks very promising and suit-only lists being heavily nerfed was the best thing they could've done in my book.
   
Made in us
Water-Caste Negotiator





West Virginia

Aeri wrote:
Manta Strike + Kauyon
It nowhere says, that models that entered via Manta Strike count as having moved. It just happens at the end of your movement phase.
Add a Commander to your Mantastriking Crisis suits and let them unleash twin linked hell!
BTW: I think you can Mantastrike into melter range, since 9 '' is all you need for the effect to take place. That makes a great unit to get rid of some nasty tanks/monstrous creatures


This also will not work since you have to declare the Kauyon at the beginning of your turn before movement or deepstriking would take place.
   
Made in gb
Assassin with Black Lotus Poison





Bristol

 GI_Redshirt wrote:
 Unusual Suspect wrote:
To those holding out for the hope of JSJ's return, I can sympathize but I think pulling the bandaid off now is the better choice.

Keywords do nothing except what the rules allow them to do. We've seen the page in the index for army-wide rules, and there is nothing to be found regarding JSJ.

Keywords are not all about benefits, nor about penalties - they're about distinguishing between classes of units. Some unit abilities, perhaps enemies or perhaps friends, will undoubtedly interact with Jump Pack and Jet Pack key words.

But seriously, clinging to JSJ because "we just haven't seen all the rules yet" is simply untrue (we HAVE seen all the rules, and JSJ ain't there) and presuming the keyword has a universal benefit would actually be extremely RARE for a keyword - aside from Fly, they tend to interact with other bespoke rules for classification purposes (if your target is a Vehicle, deals 1d3 Mortal Wounds to Infantry, etc.) rather than grant benefits all their own.


This.

Keywords are not the new USRs. They are nothing more than words that describe a unit for the purpose of serving as a shorthand when referenced in rules. Keywords themselves have no meaning, no special rules attached to them. For example, Crisis Suits have the "Battlesuit" keyword. Battlesuit itself means nothing in 8th, however it is referenced in relation to special rules and bespoken rules to describe how units with the keyword react with those rules (IE the Devilfish transporting rule states that it cannot transport units with the Battlesuit keyword, rather than Battlesuit having a definition or rule stating it cannot ride in a Devilfish).

Jet Pack, in and of itself, means nothing. It doesn't mean that JSJ is gonna still be a thing. It simply means that those units can be described as having a jet pack and at some point in the future GW can put out an army rule or bespoken rule that affects those models that have that keyword.


Well, except for the fact that we know that keywords do act as special rules which do not need to be defined in the army-wide special abilities section.

The keyword Fly, for example. We know that models with the Fly keyword can fall back from combat and shoot as normal (as mentioned in the T'au faction focus) yet nothing in the leaked index says that which clearly indicates that some keywords will be present in the rulebook and be universal. I imagine that Biker will be another one, and Jump Pack too, along with Jet Pack.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/05 15:16:18


The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.

Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
 
   
Made in de
Focused Dark Angels Land Raider Pilot




Germany


Dronecontroller Stacking: it clearly says that its cumulative (right hand side)
Spoiler:



 BoomWolf wrote:


Aeri wrote:
Homing Beacons are evil!
Remember how you can only Mantastrike up to 9'' to an enemy unit?
Well, just get a unit of Stealth Suits in there and put down a homing beacon.
The beacon has to be 9'' away from any enemy model aswell, but instead of Manta Striking you can make a low altitude drop, allowing you to place the models within 6'' of the homing beacon.
That can be up to 3'' of enemy units - 9 Flamers I hear you say? (Beacon 9'' away, 6'' bubble --> 3'' distance)



And then the enemy just steps towards the stealth suits, end their move within 9" of the beacon, and the beacon is destroyed. (also, charge the stealth suits and kill them)



You infiltrate your stealth suits, move them up, place the beacon, Deepstrike and be happy.
If you don't have first turn, don't infiltrate to far.


 Mud Turkey 13 wrote:
Aeri wrote:
Manta Strike + Kauyon
It nowhere says, that models that entered via Manta Strike count as having moved. It just happens at the end of your movement phase.
Add a Commander to your Mantastriking Crisis suits and let them unleash twin linked hell!
BTW: I think you can Mantastrike into melter range, since 9 '' is all you need for the effect to take place. That makes a great unit to get rid of some nasty tanks/monstrous creatures


This also will not work since you have to declare the Kauyon at the beginning of your turn before movement or deepstriking would take place.


Shadowsun will be on the field already, infiltrated together with those nasty homing beacon stealth suits.

This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2017/06/05 15:44:11


 
   
Made in fi
Water-Caste Negotiator





 A Town Called Malus wrote:
 GI_Redshirt wrote:
 Unusual Suspect wrote:
To those holding out for the hope of JSJ's return, I can sympathize but I think pulling the bandaid off now is the better choice.

Keywords do nothing except what the rules allow them to do. We've seen the page in the index for army-wide rules, and there is nothing to be found regarding JSJ.

Keywords are not all about benefits, nor about penalties - they're about distinguishing between classes of units. Some unit abilities, perhaps enemies or perhaps friends, will undoubtedly interact with Jump Pack and Jet Pack key words.

But seriously, clinging to JSJ because "we just haven't seen all the rules yet" is simply untrue (we HAVE seen all the rules, and JSJ ain't there) and presuming the keyword has a universal benefit would actually be extremely RARE for a keyword - aside from Fly, they tend to interact with other bespoke rules for classification purposes (if your target is a Vehicle, deals 1d3 Mortal Wounds to Infantry, etc.) rather than grant benefits all their own.


This.

Keywords are not the new USRs. They are nothing more than words that describe a unit for the purpose of serving as a shorthand when referenced in rules. Keywords themselves have no meaning, no special rules attached to them. For example, Crisis Suits have the "Battlesuit" keyword. Battlesuit itself means nothing in 8th, however it is referenced in relation to special rules and bespoken rules to describe how units with the keyword react with those rules (IE the Devilfish transporting rule states that it cannot transport units with the Battlesuit keyword, rather than Battlesuit having a definition or rule stating it cannot ride in a Devilfish).

Jet Pack, in and of itself, means nothing. It doesn't mean that JSJ is gonna still be a thing. It simply means that those units can be described as having a jet pack and at some point in the future GW can put out an army rule or bespoken rule that affects those models that have that keyword.


Well, except for the fact that we know that keywords do act as special rules which do not need to be defined in the army-wide special abilities section.

The keyword Fly, for example. We know that models with the Fly keyword can fall back from combat and shoot as normal (as mentioned in the T'au faction focus) yet nothing in the leaked index says that which clearly indicates that some keywords will be present in the rulebook and be universal. I imagine that Biker will be another one, and Jump Pack too, along with Jet Pack.


Fly -keyword also lets you move over units in movement phase. BRB page 177. Same page mentions the fall back and still shoot thing for units with Fly-keyword. So keywords enable exceptions to rules and are clearly indicated in rulebook text as bolded. I can't think of any other unit with jetpack to have a look if it does something for them. I'd imagine it can be used to prevent certain units using transports for example, like Rhino can't transport units with Jump pack

-Heresy grows from idleness- 
   
Made in de
Regular Dakkanaut





Aeri wrote:

Dronecontroller Stacking: it clearly says that its cumulative (right hand side)
Spoiler:



It says that modifiers are cumulative, but that doesn't mean a single ability can necessarily be applied to the same unit multiple times.

A drone controller will give drones +1BS and and 5 Markerlights will also give them +1BS -> the modifiers are cumulative.


The wording on drone controllers is fairly clear, though: Are drones within 6" of a drone controller? Yes= +1BS, No= no effect. No mention of stacking there.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/06/05 16:00:53


 
   
Made in us
Shas'la with Pulse Carbine





BertBert wrote:
Aeri wrote:

Dronecontroller Stacking: it clearly says that its cumulative (right hand side)
Spoiler:



It says that modifiers are cumulative, but that doesn't mean a single ability can necessarily be applied multiple times.

A drone controller will give drones +1BS and and 5 Markerlights will also give them +1BS -> the modifiers are cumulative.


The wording on drone controllers is fairly clear, though: Are drones within 6" of a done controller? Yes= +1BS, No= no effect. No mention of stacking there.


I know its a new edition, but that would be consistent in the 7th ed faq, reduced/stopped the cursed earth 2++ rerollable. etc
can only benefit from any rule 1ce, can't get stealth and stealth and stealth and stealth... stealth only counts 1ce, shrouded 1ce.

   
Made in br
Loyal Necron Lychguard




Lisbon, Portugal

 BoomWolf wrote:

Now, you know what I just noticed?
Our big suits-they pack heavy guns, and no ability to let them move and shoot in regular BS.
So yea, they cost much more, can't JSJ, cant even walk and shoot properly on our meager BS3 AND the markerlights took a heavy nerf.


Doesn't multi-tracker or target lock (con't remember which) repeat 3 ML result and then keep then firing as usual?

AI & BFG:
40k:
SW Legion & X-Wing: CIS

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
"FW is unbalanced and going to ruin tournaments."
"Name one where it did that."
"IT JUST DOES OKAY!"

 Shadenuat wrote:
Voted Astra Militarum for a chance for them to get nerfed instead of my own army.
 
   
Made in fi
Longtime Dakkanaut




stratigo wrote:
Backfire wrote:
stratigo wrote:
It's also a hard rule to balance. The Tau already have a lot of ability to defeat assaults via firepower, and almost all their suits have fly and so can unengage and still shoot, so giving them an extra move would make it simply too hard for assault armies to get to them.


But this is the problem. Tau as they stand now are increasingly more about unloading loads of dakka to the enemy, instead of working clever and flexibly.
Shoot smart, not hard. That's what the Tau should be about.


I dunno if you've played 7th edition, but let me tell you, the Tau basically was a bunch of gundams unleashing torrents of firepower. There wasn't much a difference between shoot smart/shoot hard.


Yea I played Tau in 7th twice. It was boring as heck. That is my point exactly. I'm a 5th edition Tau player.

Mr Vetock, give back my Multi-tracker! 
   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

So, what does everyone think about the Tidewall fortifications now? It looks like our guys can safely ride "inside" them now, and aren't able to be shot at until the fortification is destroyed. This seems a little bit good. I'm thinking of maybe putting some Strike teams with a Cadre Fireblade on a Shieldline for a mobile fire platform. Or does a Fireblade's Volley Fire ability work when he's embarked on a fortification? If it does, it seems like Shieldlines would be better for Strike Teams than a Devilfish, as they are cheaper and they let the guys shoot out. Breachers would probably still be better off in a 'fish since they need to get up close and personal with their guns.

My armies (re-counted and updated on 9/25/20, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~16000 | Space Marines (Blood Ravens and others): ~900 | Space Wolves: ~3800
Astra Militarum: ~800 | Officio Assassinorum: ~600 | Imperial Knights: ~1300 | Sisters of Battle: ~1900
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Total models painted in 2019: 62 | Total models painted in 2020: 28 | Current main painting project: The Witch-King of Angmar on Fell Beast
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
 
   
Made in br
Loyal Necron Lychguard




Lisbon, Portugal

aura abilities don't work from inside vehicles

AI & BFG:
40k:
SW Legion & X-Wing: CIS

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
"FW is unbalanced and going to ruin tournaments."
"Name one where it did that."
"IT JUST DOES OKAY!"

 Shadenuat wrote:
Voted Astra Militarum for a chance for them to get nerfed instead of my own army.
 
   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

 Vector Strike wrote:
aura abilities don't work from inside vehicles

Ah, so it's still true then. Oh well, nix the Fireblade, it's still possibly an effective tactic.

My armies (re-counted and updated on 9/25/20, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~16000 | Space Marines (Blood Ravens and others): ~900 | Space Wolves: ~3800
Astra Militarum: ~800 | Officio Assassinorum: ~600 | Imperial Knights: ~1300 | Sisters of Battle: ~1900
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Total models painted in 2019: 62 | Total models painted in 2020: 28 | Current main painting project: The Witch-King of Angmar on Fell Beast
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
 
   
Made in hk
Fresh-Faced New User




 BoomWolf wrote:



Now, you know what I just noticed?
Our big suits-they pack heavy guns, and no ability to let them move and shoot in regular BS.
So yea, they cost much more, can't JSJ, cant even walk and shoot properly on our meager BS3 AND the markerlights took a heavy nerf.

If you thought you'll play tau as anything but an infantry gunline in 8th, you're going to have a bad time.


Target Lock lets Heavy move and shoot without penalty, lets Rapid Fire advance and shoot like Assualt, and lets Assault advance and shoot without penalty. It's better than 3 ML hits.
Stormsurge has Walking Battleship and doesn't care anyway; for Riptide, Target Lock seems like an auto-take for one of your to Support System slots.

As for infantry: Practically the entire Tau arsenal is Assault rated: most things can Advance and shoot, and Target Lock/ML lift the penalty for doing so. I think we will have to use that Move-Phase mobility to build our tactics. It's different from JSJ, but probably less obnoxious at the end of the day.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Does anyone have any indication what the detachment allowance is going to be like for tournaments? I know it's premature to be asking things like that, but given that the ITC guys had a prominent role in playtesting and presumably creating this edition, we'll probably get word on the issue sooner rather than later.

I ask because it seems to me like taking an Outrider detachment with a Commander or two and Pathfinders (and maybe gun drones) plus a Super-heavy detachment to fill the rest of your list with Stormsurges would be a way around a lot of the weaknesses introduced to the army and codex units.
   
Made in br
Loyal Necron Lychguard




Lisbon, Portugal

The rulebook has a table. 1 for 1000p, 2 for 2000p and 3 for 3000p

AI & BFG:
40k:
SW Legion & X-Wing: CIS

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
"FW is unbalanced and going to ruin tournaments."
"Name one where it did that."
"IT JUST DOES OKAY!"

 Shadenuat wrote:
Voted Astra Militarum for a chance for them to get nerfed instead of my own army.
 
   
Made in ca
Missionary On A Mission






 BoomWolf wrote:

And then the enemy just steps towards the stealth suits, end their move within 9" of the beacon, and the beacon is destroyed. (also, charge the stealth suits and kill them)


Except your reserve unit already arrived at the end of the movement phase you placed the homing beacon in, so the stealth suits did their job. The bit about enemy models destroying the homing beacon if they move within 9" is in the unlikely event that you placed the beacon and didn't have any unit in reserve to bring in.

   
Made in gb
Sneaky Sniper Drone




 Captain Joystick wrote:
 BoomWolf wrote:

And then the enemy just steps towards the stealth suits, end their move within 9" of the beacon, and the beacon is destroyed. (also, charge the stealth suits and kill them)


Except your reserve unit already arrived at the end of the movement phase you placed the homing beacon in, so the stealth suits did their job. The bit about enemy models destroying the homing beacon if they move within 9" is in the unlikely event that you placed the beacon and didn't have any unit in reserve to bring in.


Or the slightly more likely scenario that you leave them littered around across turns while the Stealths wander off? They appear to be removed under 2 circumstances: enemy within 9", or a sept unit uses them. I suppose it could be read that the shorting out is at the end of the movement phase whether used or not, but it's a little vague.

It does seem to suggest that you can't use them for more than 1 unit though - so no HQ and bodyguard. Is that how others read it?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/06/06 10:22:44


 
   
Made in de
Regular Dakkanaut





xerxeshavelock wrote:
 Captain Joystick wrote:
 BoomWolf wrote:

And then the enemy just steps towards the stealth suits, end their move within 9" of the beacon, and the beacon is destroyed. (also, charge the stealth suits and kill them)


Except your reserve unit already arrived at the end of the movement phase you placed the homing beacon in, so the stealth suits did their job. The bit about enemy models destroying the homing beacon if they move within 9" is in the unlikely event that you placed the beacon and didn't have any unit in reserve to bring in.


Or the slightly more likely scenario that you leave them littered around across turns while the Stealths wander off? They appear to be removed under 2 circumstances: enemy within 9", or a sept unit uses them. It could be read that the shorting out is at the end of the movement phase whether used or not, but it's a little vague.

It does seem to suggest that you can't use them for more than 1 unit though - so no HQ and bodyguard. Is that how others read it?


Yeah, it looks like it's one Homing Beacon per Stealth Suit squad and one unit deepstriking per Homing Beacon. However, they are removed after an enemy has finished their move within 9", so you can place them as closeto the enemy as you want if you plan on bringing your reserve in on the same turn.
   
Made in gb
Sneaky Sniper Drone




BertBert wrote:
xerxeshavelock wrote:
 Captain Joystick wrote:
 BoomWolf wrote:

And then the enemy just steps towards the stealth suits, end their move within 9" of the beacon, and the beacon is destroyed. (also, charge the stealth suits and kill them)


Except your reserve unit already arrived at the end of the movement phase you placed the homing beacon in, so the stealth suits did their job. The bit about enemy models destroying the homing beacon if they move within 9" is in the unlikely event that you placed the beacon and didn't have any unit in reserve to bring in.


Or the slightly more likely scenario that you leave them littered around across turns while the Stealths wander off? They appear to be removed under 2 circumstances: enemy within 9", or a sept unit uses them. It could be read that the shorting out is at the end of the movement phase whether used or not, but it's a little vague.

It does seem to suggest that you can't use them for more than 1 unit though - so no HQ and bodyguard. Is that how others read it?


Yeah, it looks like it's one Homing Beacon per Stealth Suit squad and one unit deepstriking per Homing Beacon. However, they are removed after an enemy has finished their move within 9", so you can place them as closeto the enemy as you want if you plan on bringing your reserve in on the same turn.


A strict reading of the rule suggests 1 per turn, rather than per beacon. 'If there are any friendly homing beacons on the battlefield at the end of your movement phase, ONE of your Sept units.....can perform a low altitude drop...'
   
Made in us
Shas'la with Pulse Carbine




 ZergSmasher wrote:
Spoiler:
Naaris wrote:
I played my first 8th ed game last nite. My Tau vs my friends Chaos Marines. He is no pushover, and I stomped him. Close combat has not been brought up to par with shooting. Tau have gotten ridiculously better.

What I found:
Tau suits are now much more expensive
The entire Army is crazy mobile
All our battlesuits gained 1 Toughness
All suits gained more wounds
Key wargear - advanced targeting system - effectively removes bonus to saves or gives weapons that extra -1 to AP.
Broadsides are insanely good
Stormsurges are godlike
Vehicles are so much better now.
Invulnerable saves are game breakers

We just played out a simple game using the narrative missions. Decided to just use the power level system. agreed on 75 PL. Today I calculated my list and came out to 1535pts.

My List:
Longstrike with SMS and Railgun
Ethereal on hover drone - 8" movement
3x5-man strike teams
1x3-man Crisis suit team each with 2 Missile Pods and advanced targeting systems
1 broadside with 2 HYMP and 2 SMS - S5 T5 W6 2+ sv - with advanced targeting system - He alone was just over 200pts
1 Ghostkeel with 2 fusion blasters, 1 fusion collider and stim injector
1 Stormsurge with Pulse blast cannon and Burst cannons as well as his regular missile loadout. Also had Shield gen, Stims and Velo tracker

Chaos had:
Kharn
Unit of berserkers
Landraider
Pred with auto cannon? and las sponsons
Rhino
Unit of 5 CSMarines
Unit of 5 Warp Talons
Mauler fiend
Heldrake

I wanted to try a bit of everything but stay battle forged. he went first. The heldrake went for Longstrike and a firewarrior squad beside him. Longstike is tough as hell and could not be killed in CC by the heldrake. The whole concept of him fighting a mechanical demon dragon was great! His railgun wasn't overly effective. His SMS did a lot of work though.
The ghostkeel's fusion was also not overly effective. I found it to be too random.
The Crisis suits were real stars. 12 shots from that squad at S7 -2 (due to the ATS) D3 dmg took out the maulerfiend.
The stormsurge wrecked the landraider while taking nothing but las cannon shots and shrugged them off with 4+ invuln and the new stims

What we found was that target prioritization was critical. Sure everyone can hurt everyone now. But its still not worth trying to kill targets your unit isn't designed for. The big example were his warp talons attacking my CS suits after they deepstuck in. CS suits are now T5 with 3 wounds. His warp talons and all assault units got hit so badly with the nerf stick. He had 11 attacks now. They used to have 21 with mark of khorn / 16 without it. And those lightning claws used to negate my saves now i get a 5+ save. He used to wound them on 4. Now he wounds them on 5+.
He should have softened them up with some shooting first.

I think this is less of a "CC has been nerfed, shooting is still king" and more of a case of a very bad matchup. Plus the points will most likely be tweaked for some things. Also, how many points was his army, or did you calculate? I suspect that Power Levels alone are not going to be very telling, and most players will stick to points to come up with an even game.

That said, I do think Tau are still very strong despite the hit we took to our beloved Riptides (more like R.I.P.tides now ). Their ability to disengage without penalty is killer. It's also nice to see that some underappreciated units are making a big comeback, like Longstrike and other Hammerheads. I expect we won't see many Sky Rays anymore, though, with them needing 6's for their missiles to hit (unless you can get 2 markerlights on something). One thing I'm wondering about is Kroot; are they any good now? It looks like Vespids became good or at least playable, but what about our favorite galactic scavengers?


My army came to about 1534 his was 1465. Reason being I was able to take considerably more expensive upgrades than him with 0 power level implications.

I will be play testing riptides this Thursday. I don't think they're really any less powerful. Being able to fire those SMS at different targets from the main gun is killer! Kroot, and stealth teams will make the list this week along with Markerlight options such as pathfinders, sniper drones etc...

9000
8000
Knights / Assassins 800  
   
Made in us
Trustworthy Shas'vre





Philadelphia

I have two battle reports up in the BR section, but here's a unit breakdown.

Okay, first of all, don't panic: we're still really good. My gut says we're about where we were before, not tippy top tier, but better than many. I haven't played with all our units yet, and the games were only 1000 points with the same list, but I don't see any obviously bad units. I'll only comment on what I played with:

Fireblade: Cheap cheap cheap, and very effective. I played him in a Devilfish with 10 Breachers and the extra shot at half range is devastating.

Ghostkeel: I set her up as a vehicle/character/monster killer with a fusion collider and two fusion blasters. I think this would have been awesome against some armies, like Imperial Knights, or Space Marines with lots of transports. However, the armies I played against, Necrons and Orks, he was ill equipped. I think there are going to be two ways to use Keels effectively, as I had him here, or as a cheap screening unit, which would have helped me more in my games. A Cyclic Ion Raker and a few flamers is a lot cheaper way to run her and she can score Maelstrom objectives thanks to her blazing speed, is super resilient, and can fall back and still shoot because she flies. Really fluffy way of imagining using Keels, bounding in the fog of war at the edge of the battle skirmishing, retreating, and revealing themselves again to score points and take out vulnerable units!

Crisis Suits: Wow, these are our best unit. I will say, plasma and burst are underwhelming options, but with fusion and missile pods, I think they will be incredible. Don't get my wrong, I had mine with Plasma and Burst, and they were still absolute bosses. They got tougher, can shoot 3 weapons, and because they have the "fly" keyword, can fall back and shoot. I can't emphasize how good that is. You can't lock us in combat anymore. Losing JSJ is a shame, but they move 8" and can still jump over stuff or land on impassable terrain. I suspect 2 missile pods with an Advanced Targeting System will be the go-to build. S7 -1 rend with D3 damage, and making it -2 rend with the ATS? That is awesome. And the 36" range with 8" move means you'll be hitting whatever you want to. Finally, with deep striking no longer scattering, if you do choose to drop these guys in, which I did in both games, they will be exactly where you need them to be (>9" from the enemy of course)

Breachers: These were and still are my favorite Tau unit. -2 Rend with 5" is not quite as good as AP3 was, but -2 rend in 8th edition is still very, very good. They can still be granted their +1 shot at half range, now given by a Fireblade, and they are just devastating at that range. And they are dirt cheap. 8 points per model. And now that charging units always go first, you may find yourself as I did assaulting with them rather than waiting to be shot in the ensuing turn. So cinematic, so freakin' cool.

Devilfish: They're more expensive than before, but you get so much more. 12" T7 3+ 12W is sooooo good. And it's a decent gunboat with two SMS systems and a Burst Cannon. I think I will try out a cheaper version with just drones, but SMS is still very good (though not as accurate as it once was)

Broadsides: I used the Heavy Rail Rifle with 2 SMS system base version, adding a multi-tracker to give me +1 to hit if everything fires at the same target. The Rail option gives you Heavy 2 S8 -4 Rend and D6 damage! Yes! That is awesome, and it is great at killing vehicles and monsters. Unfortunately for me, I didn't have any of those on offer in my games, but the SMS still does work. Are they more expensive? Yes. Much more. But they are much, much better. 2+ save with 6W and that amount of firepower at range is awesome. Well worth their points.

That's the unit breakdown, this weekend I will let you know how Stormsurges, Strike teams, Stealth Suits and Hammerheads are. Until then, I hope this is useful

Rule #1 is Look Cool.

4000 Tau'Arn Desert Raiders

2000 Sa'Cea Sept Urban Assault Cadre

1000 V'iet Jungle Insurgents (Under Construction)  
   
Made in us
Water-Caste Negotiator





 The Shrike wrote:
I have two battle reports up in the BR section, but here's a unit breakdown.

Okay, first of all, don't panic: we're still really good. My gut says we're about where we were before, not tippy top tier, but better than many. I haven't played with all our units yet, and the games were only 1000 points with the same list, but I don't see any obviously bad units. I'll only comment on what I played with:

Fireblade: Cheap cheap cheap, and very effective. I played him in a Devilfish with 10 Breachers and the extra shot at half range is devastating.

Ghostkeel: I set her up as a vehicle/character/monster killer with a fusion collider and two fusion blasters. I think this would have been awesome against some armies, like Imperial Knights, or Space Marines with lots of transports. However, the armies I played against, Necrons and Orks, he was ill equipped. I think there are going to be two ways to use Keels effectively, as I had him here, or as a cheap screening unit, which would have helped me more in my games. A Cyclic Ion Raker and a few flamers is a lot cheaper way to run her and she can score Maelstrom objectives thanks to her blazing speed, is super resilient, and can fall back and still shoot because she flies. Really fluffy way of imagining using Keels, bounding in the fog of war at the edge of the battle skirmishing, retreating, and revealing themselves again to score points and take out vulnerable units!

Crisis Suits: Wow, these are our best unit. I will say, plasma and burst are underwhelming options, but with fusion and missile pods, I think they will be incredible. Don't get my wrong, I had mine with Plasma and Burst, and they were still absolute bosses. They got tougher, can shoot 3 weapons, and because they have the "fly" keyword, can fall back and shoot. I can't emphasize how good that is. You can't lock us in combat anymore. Losing JSJ is a shame, but they move 8" and can still jump over stuff or land on impassable terrain. I suspect 2 missile pods with an Advanced Targeting System will be the go-to build. S7 -1 rend with D3 damage, and making it -2 rend with the ATS? That is awesome. And the 36" range with 8" move means you'll be hitting whatever you want to. Finally, with deep striking no longer scattering, if you do choose to drop these guys in, which I did in both games, they will be exactly where you need them to be (>9" from the enemy of course)

Breachers: These were and still are my favorite Tau unit. -2 Rend with 5" is not quite as good as AP3 was, but -2 rend in 8th edition is still very, very good. They can still be granted their +1 shot at half range, now given by a Fireblade, and they are just devastating at that range. And they are dirt cheap. 8 points per model. And now that charging units always go first, you may find yourself as I did assaulting with them rather than waiting to be shot in the ensuing turn. So cinematic, so freakin' cool.

Devilfish: They're more expensive than before, but you get so much more. 12" T7 3+ 12W is sooooo good. And it's a decent gunboat with two SMS systems and a Burst Cannon. I think I will try out a cheaper version with just drones, but SMS is still very good (though not as accurate as it once was)

Broadsides: I used the Heavy Rail Rifle with 2 SMS system base version, adding a multi-tracker to give me +1 to hit if everything fires at the same target. The Rail option gives you Heavy 2 S8 -4 Rend and D6 damage! Yes! That is awesome, and it is great at killing vehicles and monsters. Unfortunately for me, I didn't have any of those on offer in my games, but the SMS still does work. Are they more expensive? Yes. Much more. But they are much, much better. 2+ save with 6W and that amount of firepower at range is awesome. Well worth their points.

That's the unit breakdown, this weekend I will let you know how Stormsurges, Strike teams, Stealth Suits and Hammerheads are. Until then, I hope this is useful


Always good to see people reporting from actual games that we're still fine as an army, especially given the negativity the Tau playerbase seems to have across multiple forums. Quick question regarding your suit loadouts, specifically the Ghostkeel and the Broadside. Why did you go with Multi-trackers over Target Locks? When I first read through the leaks, my immediate thought for Ghostkeels, Riptides, and Broadsides was that Target Locks were gonna be all but mandatory on them to counteract their main weapons and possibly secondary weapons being Heavy. It seems like you went with ensuring they can reroll 1s when focus firing and relying on markerlights to get the move and shoot heavy weapons with no penalty. In my mind, doing the reverse is the better option, ensuring they can always move and shoot with no penalty and relying on markerlights to get the reroll 1s is the more reliable option, as you only need 1 ML on the target rather than 3. What are your thoughts on this, given that I haven't been able to try out 8th Tau on the table yet and you have? Is the Target Lock as mandatory as it seems to be on our bigger suits?

Mobile Assault Cadre: 9,500 points (3,200 points fully painted)

Genestealer Cult 1228 points


849 points/ 15 SWC 
   
Made in fi
Focused Fire Warrior




Helsinki

 The Shrike wrote:
I have two battle reports up in the BR section, but here's a unit breakdown.

Fireblade: Cheap cheap cheap, and very effective. I played him in a Devilfish with 10 Breachers and the extra shot at half range is devastating.

Breachers: These were and still are my favorite Tau unit. -2 Rend with 5" is not quite as good as AP3 was, but -2 rend in 8th edition is still very, very good. They can still be granted their +1 shot at half range, now given by a Fireblade, and they are just devastating at that range. And they are dirt cheap. 8 points per model. And now that charging units always go first, you may find yourself as I did assaulting with them rather than waiting to be shot in the ensuing turn. So cinematic, so freakin' cool.



You unfortunatly played the fireblade wrong, his aura only affects pulse rifles, carbines and pistols so it is pretty much pointless to put him in a unit of breachers. This makes me really pissed since breachers formed the core of my army for the last year and a half.

My armies:
vior'la sept 12k
Erik Morkai's great company 6k
dark mechanicus, the dearth of hope, 8k
rothwyr morwan's company 1,5k
Adeptus custodes 2k
AoS, The forgotten order, SE, 3k 
   
Made in ie
Pete Haines





I used Darkstrider yesterday with some breachers, he is about the same price as a fire blade. The -1 toughness, markerlight and his fall back aura is nice. I was not sure how the Devilfish would fare with the new rules. Not 100% sure I played it right, but at one point I charged the Devilfish into an enemy unit, then in my next turn the breachers disembarked and the transport made a fall back move.

We couldn't see any rule to stop this move. So I blasted away with the breachers at point blank range!

Stealth suits took a bit of getting used to with their 2 wounds a piece. The -1 to hit seems to work in assault, so I used them at one point to assault/tie up some fodder after shooting them up. The suits even won the combat. Most Tau units essentially have 8th edition hit and run now.

Longstrike and 2 hammerheads did allot of work.

Hordes is a thing now, with the way blast weapons work and terrain. They can cover objectives.

   
Made in us
Trustworthy Shas'vre





Philadelphia

Yeah shame about my mistake with the Fireblade, I'm sure we made other mistakes. In fact, I just remembered my opponent certainly was not adjusting his BS down when targeting my Ghostkeel because I didn't remind him to. Anyway, I'll probably try Darkstrider like the above poster.

As for the gear on the suits, you're probably right I just wanted to try everything out.

Other tactical/list-building notes:

I think our faction, more than most, will be dependent on Command Points for success. I'm thinking a Brigade detachment at the recommended average game size of 2000 points is not only doable, but essential. That's 12 re-rolls. A 1 on Longstrike's shot? No problem. A 2 on his D6 damage? Not an issue.

I used it multiple times to keep my Ghostkeel at 6 wounds and thus operating at optimum efficiency.

I'm not sure yet whether we are worse in 8th, mainly because that's dependent on how effective everyone else is and I've only played against Necrons and Orks. Still, our low BS seems to demand lots of Command Points to mitigate, even considering support systems and markerlights.

Also, while the all-Fusion Ghostkeel is good, especially using a CP to reroll the D3 shots for the Collider if necessary, I'm thinking a Commander with 4 fusion is incredibly cheap at 160 and more efficient than our other AT choices. BS 2+, and if you keep him behind our frontline units like KRoot, Keels, Stealths, Crisis and Vespid, he should live a long time to make enemy tanks and monsters miserable (and dead).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/08 12:38:11


Rule #1 is Look Cool.

4000 Tau'Arn Desert Raiders

2000 Sa'Cea Sept Urban Assault Cadre

1000 V'iet Jungle Insurgents (Under Construction)  
   
Made in fi
Water-Caste Negotiator





So yeah, had my first game. Just threw together a list of cool models I didn't play too much in 7th ed so bunch of Fire Warriors, Fireblade, Pathfinders, two Missilesides and two Devilfishes. Oh yeah, and a Riptide and 3 Crisis suits and a Commander with two missile pods. I was facing walker heavy orks. I lost, but only because I lacked any real anti-tank or high power weapons. I'll write a better list for next time.

What was good:
-Fire Warriors with Fireblade is a solid gunline. Thinking of including Ethereal too
-Devilfishes are pretty good anti-infantry weapons with drones attached. They are also pretty big modes, thus able to block charges.

What I feel was lackluster:

-My list. No way around it, it was just bad list haha. Got excited about the Fire Warrior a bit too much. Should've bought markerlights for them too as even one hit is good.
-MIssilesides. Now these guys put out a good amount of shots but are really expensive. In this matchup his weapons weren't enough though. I feel like I should take more Crisis Suits instead.

What I faced was a list I think we'll see more of in 8th. Melee centric assault list that puts many threats onwards fast.Target priority will be even more important than before.

Markerlights are good even with one hit. I'm going to try and upgrade my shas'uis with those too.

Next time I'll test Stormsurge and Ghostkeels, the backbones of my 7th ed lists.

-Heresy grows from idleness- 
   
Made in us
Unrelenting Rubric Terminator of Tzeentch





Not a tau player Myself, but I figured I share my experience against my buddies Tau with you, and suggest that perhaps doom and gloom is an inappropriate response to nuTau.

Here's the lists:

2k Nids:
Spoiler:

2x Winged Tyrants: 2x Rending Claws, Tail, Adrenal glands

Swarmlord

Broodlord

20 Stealers (w/ Trygon)
15 Stealers
15 Stealers

11 Hormagaunts
10 Hormagaunts
10 Hormagaunts
10 Hormagaunts

Trygon: Adrenal Glands
Carnifex: Adrenal glands
Carnifex: Adrenal glands


2k Tau:
Spoiler:

Commander: 4x Fusion Blaster
Commander: 4x Fusion Blaster
Commander: 4x Burst Cannon, 2x Gun Drone

3x Crisis Suits: 8x Burst Cannon, Drone controller, 2x Gun Drone
3x Crisis Suits: 8x Burst Cannon, 2x Gun Drone
3x Crisis Suits: 9x Burst Cannon, 2x Gun Drone
3x Crisis Suits: 7x Missile Pod, 1 EWO, Drone Controller

7x Gun Drone
7x Gun Drone
7x Marker Drone
7x Marker Drone

2x Skyray

Sunshark Bomber


We called the game at turn 4 as I was basically tabled. I made a few gaffs here and there because I was rusty but this list was brutal to face. Granted it was *kinda* tailored to beat mine (I had been talking up how good nids were looking), but I still think it's a pretty good all rounder. Gun Drones drones are a steal at 8 ppm, and they do work with a drone controller and some marker lights. With the amount of marker lights he had he was consistently lighting up the biggest threat to his army at any given time with the full 5 markers. I think big blobs of drones around crisis suits are going to be good for you guys.

"Backfield? I have no backfield." 
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter






How did the carnifex do. was looking through it with a friend and basicly was awestruck at how its a faster punchier dreadnought for cheaper.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/08 18:40:32


 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 Scott-S6 wrote:
And yet another thread is hijacked for Unit to ask for the same advice, receive the same answers and make the same excuses.

Oh my god I'm becoming martel.
Send help!

 
   
 
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