McNinja wrote:So that guy is OTT. Also, Too Horrible to Die isn't a thing, unless it's part of the BA codex. Is there a reason this guy is basically Mephiston?

McNinja wrote:So that guy is OTT. Also, Too Horrible to Die isn't a thing, unless it's part of the BA codex. Is there a reason this guy is basically Mephiston?

Ovion wrote:

McNinja wrote:So that guy is OTT. Also, Too Horrible to Die isn't a thing, unless it's part of the BA codex. Is there a reason this guy is basically Mephiston?

I think he means one of the new 6th USRs, though I don't havthe book, to hand, remember what it does, etc...

McNinja wrote:

Ovion wrote:

McNinja wrote:So that guy is OTT. Also, Too Horrible to Die isn't a thing, unless it's part of the BA codex. Is there a reason this guy is basically Mephiston?

I think he means one of the new 6th USRs, though I don't havthe book, to hand, remember what it does, etc...

I'm fairly certain he means It Will Not Die, but still.

felixander wrote:Yeah he's pretty stinkin' big as I understand him, I think Extremely Bulky is good. Also I'd bump up his toughness in exchange for one strength personally. I haven't read the full series but I read the first and I felt like he was tougher than he was strong, no?

Hrontore Da Death Bringer wrote:Hrontore Sesha the Bringer of Death ()
Ws= 6 BS= 4 S= 5 T= 4(5) W= 4 I= 5 A= 4 LD= 10 Sv=2+

Special rules
• Independent Character
• And they shall know no fear
• Combat tactics
• Eternal warrior
• It will not Die
• Orbital Bombardment

War gear
• Artificer armour
• Death Bringer- Master crafted Power scythe(Power Axe,flesh bane,Unweildly)(ideas for DMG of weapon?)
1. on a roll of 6 to hit add +1 A per 6 rolled
• Master crafted Bolter w/ Aux grenade Launcher (Stalker pattern except 1 shot at 36" 2 shots at 24"
• Michaels Pendant-convers a 4+ invulnerale save
• Hover Bike(jetbike, 2 twin liked bolters) +50Pts

Leader of my homebrew chapter. C&C. ideas for points cost? also he has a brother(techmarine)wanted to try to get special effects if they're together but idk where to start for the brother.
If you need any background /fluff jus ask. im tryna make him legit and not OP.

felixander wrote:

Hrontore Da Death Bringer wrote:Hrontore Sesha the Bringer of Death ()
Ws= 6 BS= 4 S= 5 T= 4(5) W= 4 I= 5 A= 4 LD= 10 Sv=2+

Special rules
• Independent Character
• And they shall know no fear
• Combat tactics
• Eternal warrior
• It will not Die
• Orbital Bombardment

War gear
• Artificer armour
• Death Bringer- Master crafted Power scythe(Power Axe,flesh bane,Unweildly)(ideas for DMG of weapon?)
1. on a roll of 6 to hit add +1 A per 6 rolled
• Master crafted Bolter w/ Aux grenade Launcher (Stalker pattern except 1 shot at 36" 2 shots at 24"
• Michaels Pendant-convers a 4+ invulnerale save
• Hover Bike(jetbike, 2 twin liked bolters) +50Pts

Leader of my homebrew chapter. C&C. ideas for points cost? also he has a brother(techmarine)wanted to try to get special effects if they're together but idk where to start for the brother.
If you need any background /fluff jus ask. im tryna make him legit and not OP.

I typed up a long page and then my browser crashed. here's the short version:

245 points. Melee weapon is almost too powerful. Give him Frag/Krak grenades and a bolt pistol. Why does he have -1 BS from another SM Chapter Master when he has a Stalker Pattern bolter?

Fluffwise don't SMs cut all ties to their previous lives and only consider their battle brothers to be "family"? Plus given the rigorous testing to become a Space marine it's unlikely that the two brothers would both survive, right?

Maybe someone with my SM Fluff know-it-all will be able to help validate this.

Hrontore Da Death Bringer wrote:
what makes the weapon op in your opinion?are you referring to the on a 6 pick up an extra attack per? aren't there weapons that do this already like a chaos lord weapon IIRC.i should also mention that the materials the weapon is made out of is in no means normal
frag and krak shall be added per standard as all SM can take them
the 4 BS is because he leaed more towards close combat as a scout and IIRC scouts are BS 3 so +1 for the stalker gives him BS4

i know the chaces of both making it is slim.thats what make sit interesting right? i guess i could also play it as the two got close while in their original chapter.
thanks for the critique keep it comming

McNinja wrote:It's unlikely, but possible, though they would not have that much more of a bond than any other battle-brother. Perhaps slightly more, but not much. If they were guardsmen, they would, but Space Marines spend too much time with everyone to have one single close friend, unless they are higher up in power. A captain could be closer to one other captain than the rest, but I don't see a battle-brother being close to one than another.

Also, T4(5) doesn't exist in 6th edition. It's T5. The toughness is permanent.
the T 5 is for when hes on his bike

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Hrontore Da Death Bringer wrote:
what makes the weapon op in your opinion?are you referring to the on a 6 pick up an extra attack per? aren't there weapons that do this already like a chaos lord weapon IIRC.i should also mention that the materials the weapon is made out of is in no means normal
frag and krak shall be added per standard as all SM can take them
the 4 BS is because he leaed more towards close combat as a scout and IIRC scouts are BS 3 so +1 for the stalker gives him BS4

i know the chaces of both making it is slim.thats what make sit interesting right? i guess i could also play it as the two got close while in their original chapter.
thanks for the critique keep it comming

The weapon is OP because it is AP2 and wounds on a 2+. That's pretty big, even if he is hitting at I1, and combined with his extra attacks makes it almost OP (almost, not quite,as Thunder Hammers will wound on 2s 90% of the time and are AP2). He basically has a Thunder hammer, but can have a crapton of attacks. It's what, 9 attacks on the charge if he gets all sixes? Also, can the hits get more hits? If I roll a 6, and I roll to hit for the extra attack, and I get another six, do I get another attack? Basically is it a Blood Talon dreadnought or Drazhar-like ability?

McNinja wrote:It's unlikely, but possible, though they would not have that much more of a bond than any other battle-brother. Perhaps slightly more, but not much. If they were guardsmen, they would, but Space Marines spend too much time with everyone to have one single close friend, unless they are higher up in power. A captain could be closer to one other captain than the rest, but I don't see a battle-brother being close to one than another.

RegalPhantom wrote:Honestly, I think the best solution for his scythe would be to make it in line with what Tesla does for Necron shooting. I also agree with dropping Fleshbane

Deathbringer
S +1, AP2, Range -, Unwieldly, Master Crafted, Reaper*

Reaper*: When rolling to hit with this weapon, any rolls of a 6 cause 2 hits instead of one. This additional hit may be allocated to any model that could be wounded by this weapon.

Hrontore Da Death Bringer wrote:

McNinja wrote:It's unlikely, but possible, though they would not have that much more of a bond than any other battle-brother. Perhaps slightly more, but not much. If they were guardsmen, they would, but Space Marines spend too much time with everyone to have one single close friend, unless they are higher up in power. A captain could be closer to one other captain than the rest, but I don't see a battle-brother being close to one than another.

im sorry i should have stated the current character under Review is my Chapter Master. and his Brother is Probably going to be tweaked off the MOTF Statline. so yes they are up there in the chain of command

Hrontore Da Death Bringer wrote:i was in that range for points also. how do people get the cost jus a side question.

Ovion wrote:It's a good amount of comparison and experience in the end.

When I create a character I'll first look at similar characters, I'll price things according to the cost of units / characters / wargear in the relevant codex.
If all else fails I'll generally cost it at 10pts base per stat point, wargear or rule, and then modify accordingly.

It helps to work from the 'base' version of the character / unit (if available). Ensure it is never cheaper than running its 'standard' equivalent and don't do anything too absurd or gamebreaking.

I generally reccomend rounding up, and that overcosting is far better than undercosting, as if someone looks at your unit and goes 'yeah, that's overpriced' or 'It costs that much and only does that?' They're going to let you use it.

Or, to look at it from the other side - if someone else put your unit down infront of you, said 'these are the rules, can I use it?' what would you say? (Realisticly.)

Additionally - come up with decent names. If it and its gear and rules are named well, people are that much more likely to accept it. It's not a huge factor, but I'm far more likely to accept 'Julian Lestat, 4th Lord of the Knights Errant' with his elegant singing swords to 'Super Marine God Man' with his pwnhammer.

Ovion wrote:And for a more indepth 'guide': The easiest way is to select the closest thing that already exists, then 'adjusting' the points like so:
Unit Type: +/-10pts depending on whether it's shifted from infantry to something better, or from something better to infantry, WS, BS, S, T, W, I, A- +/- 10pts per point of difference Ld- +/- 5pts per point of difference, Sv- +/- 10pts per point of difference.
Wargear:
Step 1: Cost all the wargear the base character has, that your character doesn't have, and subtract it.
Step 2: Cost all the new / different wargear your character has, and add it. Standard Wargear, use at the standard cost of the closest unit to yours (another HQ choice, an Elites choice etc.) If that wargear is a modified base, go with base cost +5pts per change made. (You can also give a guestimate up and down based on negatives / if it seems overcosted.)
Step 3: Any new and unique wargear, attempt to cost using the closest existing gear as a base, then adjusting based on differences.

Special Rules:
Step 1: Cost all the special the base character has, that your character doesn't have, and subtract it.
Step 2: Cost all the new / different special rules your character has, and add it. Guesstimate and use at the standard cost of the closest unit to yours (another HQ choice, an Elites choice etc.) If that special rule is a modified base, go with base cost +5pts per change made. (You can also give a guestimate up and down based on negatives / if it seems overcosted.)
Step 3: Any new and unique rules, attempt to cost using the closest existing rule as a base, then adjusting based on differences.

Options:
Price accordingly.

When done add 10% of the current cost / 10pts (whichevers lower.) as a 'anything you missed tax' then round up to the nearest 5 or 10 pts so it doesn't end up something silly like 173, or 228.

Always err on the side of Overcosted if you're in doubt, it'll lead to people being more accpting of it.
Furthermore, always ensure you've spelt your charcater properly. And try to lay it out nicely / give things cool names.
i.e. - Wolf God Hammer sounds a bit crap, try and do something interesting, like Borealis Thunder Hammer.

Once you've done all this, forget this unit is your baby, that you've just spent ages carefully crafting the bugger, sit back and think like your opponent, objectively look at the unit, its stats, rules and cost, and think 'If someone else had made this, would I be happy to let them use it and play against it?'
If the answer is YES, put it up for review / playtest it, etc - there may have been somethign you missed / an unforseen effect / synergy that makes things a bit overpowered.
Adjust up or down accordingly dependant on performance (or leave it as is and call it finished if it seems to play fine.)

Matt.Kingsley wrote:Wedge Talon, Chapter Master of the Hunter Eagles, 210pts (is this enough?)

Spoiler:

WS 7
BS 5
S 4
T 4
W 3
I 4
A 6
Ld 10
Sv 2+

Unit Type: Jump Infantry (Character, Unique)

Special Rules:
ATSKNF
The Great Loss
Accurate Desent
The High-Flying Eye
Ariel Attack
Independent Character

The Great Loss:
Wedge Talon has the Prefered Enemy: Chaos, Hatred: Chaos Space Marines and Crusader rules. His accompaning unit also gain benefit from the crusader rule while Wedge is alive/acompanying them.
Accurate Desent:
Wedge Talon (and his unit) only scatter D6" when deep striking
The High-Flying Eye: Wedge Talon re-rolls all rolls to hit when shooting. In addition, he and his unit can choose to use the skyfire rule in their shooting phase.
Ariel Attack:
Wedge Talon and his unit are able to assault the turn they deep strike. As well as that, Wedge and his unit, instead of moving normally in the movement phase, may instead elect to go into ongoing reserves. When they return the MUST deep strike. Wedge Talon must always be your warlord if included as part of the primary attachement and automatically has the 'Coordinated Assault' command trait. Assault Marines are troop choices and Vanguard Veterans are scoring units.
Orbital Bombardment

Wargear:
Power Armour
Auxillary Grenade Launcher
Iron Halo
The Eagle's Talons
This is a twin pair of lightning claws with the following profile:
range - str +1 ap 2 type shred melee, specialist weapon*
Note, Wedge Talon gets the +1 attack as they are a PAIR,
Calthalian Hunter Eagles:
Wedge Talon is accompanied by 3 of the finest Calthalian Hunter Eagles. He gains +1 I as long as 1 Hunter Eagle is alive. In addition, the Calthalian Hunter Eagles have their own stats, listed below:

Calthalian Hunter Eagle
WS 4
BS 1
S 3
T 3
W 1
I 5
A 3
Ld 9
Sv -

Unit Type: Jump Beast

Special Rules:
Quick Reflexs:
Confers a 5+ invunerable save.
Stubborn
Eagle's Eye:
All attacks made by Calthalian Hunter Eagles are Precision Strikes

Wargear:
Sharp Talons:
range - str user ap 6 type shred

Note: Calthalian Hunter Eagles DO NOT interfer with the 'Independent Character' rule Wedge Talon has, he may still join other units even when accompanied by them.

The High-Flying Eye: Wedge Talon re-rolls all rolls to hit when shooting. In addition, he and his unit can choose to use the skyfire rule in their shooting phase.

Spoiler:

Chapter Master = 125
+ 1WS +10
+3A +40 (I costed the first one at +10 and the other 2 at +15 each. As things become more and more powerful they should cost more to balance it)
Artificer Armor +15
Jump Pack +25
The Great Loss +20 (I was unsure how to score this but I figured +5 per extra rule since they aren't overly powerful ones like Eternal Warrior and then added an extra 5 to cover any oversight)
Accurate Descent +20
The High-Flying Eye +20
Ariel Attack +30 (this is WITHOUT assaulting on Deep strike. Also I would divide this ability into two different abilities by putting the AsMar Troops/Scoring Vets into another rule like Command of the Skies or something like that. VERY minor but it'd help clarify things when discussing him with an opponent since they do very different things.)
Aux GL +5 (Curious about how this is mounted/modeled. Underslung or maybe slung over the shoulder?)
The Eagle's Talons +45 (15 for one Lightning Claw + 10 for a second (since it confers +1A basically) + 10 (+1s) + 10 (AP2))
Eagles + 20 each (20 points EACH?!?! Yup. I think the comparison to an Assault Marine in melee is the closest we can do. They're at -1S, -1T, +1i, +2A, and have Shred. So they get to attack first, reroll wounds and get one more attack. Slightly less effective than an Assault Marine though (but put them in the back line of an assault and their downfalls are covered) I'd also call the 3+ to 5++ moot (personally). AND THEN you give the whole squad they join Stubborn and all together give your super IC another Initiative. =/ 20 points each)

If you want to keep him as is with the DS charge rules I'd peg on at LEAST another 70. Overpowered = Overcosted =)

"BUT HE COSTS TOO MUCH" Than cut down his powers. He does too much as is (He makes other Chapter Masters look like fools compared to him in mobility. And shooting. Oh and in shooting.
the High Flying Eye - Cut it! You shouldn't really need it and seems over the top. I get it that Skyfire is cool because he can jump up to the level of aircraft but he can't get close to matching their speed which is why they need 6s to hit.
The Great Loss - Maybe take out Crusader? I don't know the fluff but I feel like that should reflect it well? I'd cost it down to 10 points
Eagles - Consider cutting it down to a wargear choice with +1i and +1A for 20 points. Otherwise I'd say drop an attack and stubborn and you could price them closer to 12 each
Stat line - Drop AT LEAST one of his attacks. 6 is ungodly. Calgar is the only CMaster in the C:SM book that has more than the base 3 attacks, and he only goes up to 4. If Draigo and Mephiston have base 4 attacks I have SERIOUS trouble believing this guy gets 6!

RegalPhantom wrote:Honestly, I think the best solution for his scythe would be to make it in line with what Tesla does for Necron shooting. I also agree with dropping Fleshbane

Deathbringer
S +1, AP2, Range -, Unwieldly, Master Crafted, Reaper*

Reaper*: When rolling to hit with this weapon, any rolls of a 6 cause 2 hits instead of one. This additional hit may be allocated to any model that could be wounded by this weapon.