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 Shrapnelsmile wrote:
How has the reception been by new players, not current, in your area?

At my local club that meets every week, absolute zero interest. No one's talking about the new edition, no one appears to care about the models.
That being said, I'm not at all surprised by that. Heresy has always had very minimal presence at the club. I think I've seen a grand total of like two or three games of it over the last couple of years. It's 40k/AoS there.

The group of guys I get meet with one a month to play heresy though, the reaction to the new edition has been mixed. A couple down right poopoo'd it and have gone back to 1st edition. We did have a learn-to-play day over the weekend, and the reaction was positive-ish. We generally agreed list building was sort of annoying, but likely one of those thing you'll just end up adapting too. The change to reactions was met favourably. Challenges were definitely a mixed bag, a couple of guys really liked it, a few thought it was over complicated. The one guy who bought a flyer with him was not overly enamored with the new flyer rules.
Future meet ups will really be the telling factor of how successful it is. We average probably 10-12 people a meet up. We had 10 come the other day, one of who was a new player. So we'll see I guess.

Had a game myself on sat and am hoping to meet up with the HH club I'm part of too in a few weeks.

Rhino rush is real nowdays, but the debuffs for being dis-ordered are brutal. Knocks off your step up bonus, no extra attack and no volley makes it harder to push pressure. But on the other hand it does mean you can a first turn charge. But they are double the points now it figures.

The list building is a bit janky, like, it wants you to take one or two different types of things. If you wanted to build a list around the idea of a generalist little force you're kind of out of luck or need to burn up your aux slots/prime advantages.

The loss of artificer armour is good though, means your Sargent is likely the last model, not the first to die.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
It’s still suggestive of certain folks only here to tell people they don’t like a thing. The sort that when challenged on a conclusion, just go to ad hominem.

At no point have I said anyone with a negative opinion on the game is wrong. There’s no point in that. And frankly, I don’t care enough whether the next person does or doesn’t enjoy a thing I enjoy.

If 3rd Ed does choke? I’ve still my complete (I think? May not have nabbed the Militias book) set of 2nd Ed books, and will have no problem getting further mileage from those purchases.

And in that scenario, I feel confident the wider community will adopt a set of extra rules for the all new units. And so all I’m out, at most, is the price of the 3rd Ed books I’ve bought. And even then, I dare say it’ll still be possible to get a game in.

But those who are just here to tell us they don’t like a thing? They don’t care about the game. They don’t care about the wider community and who might or might not adopt what. They seem solely intent on just trying to paint GW as incompetent, again for reasons best known to themselves. And they are tiresome in doing so.

Firstly, if you don't care whether people like something, don't engage telling them they're wrong.

Secondly as I feel I fall under your umbrella of "people who don't post in HH prior to 3rd dont get a vote", I was indeed looking to a new edition to jump in. I have friends who have been excited to play HH previously but playing catch up with the books was an expensive proposition, alongside the resin investment.

I've played plenty of 7th 40k, I was familiar enough with HH 2.0s changes and rules to be able to engage in conversation. I had no interest in the game specifically previously.

This edition release does everything I didn't want it to, to the point I've told my friends to carry on without me. I'm standing by my opinion counter to others that even the respective failures are subjective to a degree.

I've been called a white Knight and shill enough times on this forum for not being angry at GW for stuff. I got called out for saying "you can play 2.0 still" earlier in the thread, because apparently nobody else would be doing that and it's some social impossibility. I got slammed for not being super angry at the fact consul loadouts being restricted was a thing.

I'm not just about to say I don't like a thing. I love the HH minis, I wanted to have a reason to get into this game. But they just moved in a way that, for me, put walls up and made it harder to get into.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Right.

But there’s a difference between

A) Not wanting to change editions
B) Trying a new edition and then switching back
C) Calling a new edition junk whilst refusing to even try it,

Likewise, there have been folk in thread doing the ol’ Doom And Gloom who, rather conspicuously, have never posted in the main Heresy board. Ever. And they’re often the ones desperate, for reasons best known to themselves, to paint 3rd Ed as dead on arrival.

The sort to present anything in the worst possible light, and have a go at anyone pointing out “that’s not the only conclusion”. Not addressing the argument, merely parroting them back and making ad hominem attacks,

Given they’ve never posted to discuss general Heresy stuff, you’ve got to ask whether they’ve a genuine concern about the health of a game system, or if they’re just pot stirrers with nothing better to do than dislike a company.

Good time to remind you that you've never played Newcromunda yet you still have five posts on every page of the Necromunda thread, including posts extolling the virtues of A Good Arbitrator and the Value of RPGesque Design (despite never having played, arbitrated, or having been arbitrated yourself)

edit: Which I bring up to ask, why do you think it's ok for you to poke your nose into every conversation about every game GW makes, but when others do a (much less intrusive, because you're inescapable on this forum) version of the same thing they're suddenly compromised bad actors? Are you the only one who gets to take an interest in the breadth of GW's offerings, simply because you're always, by default, enamoured of them? Are you the only one who gets to extrapolate how a game plays, not having actually played it? I mean, you've decided you like the game without having tried it yet, so what's wrong with another person deciding they don't like it without trying it?

Incidentally, I think it's clear that you're not an impartial, innocent broker of pure facts and logic (strictly applied to only the games you play regularly, of course!). You seem to have a portion of your identity tied up in the concept of Being A Games Workshop Fan, and I think you also derive vicarious pride from GW being A Great English Company (the brutally-forced folksy Englishman voice you insist on using is what sells it, for me). And I'd bet a starter set that you own shares of the company on top. So, no, you're not Nigel Neutral, duck.

But that's not even that weird of you! Because it makes complete sense that fans or players of certain GW games would be interested in discussing the fortunes of other GW games. Not least because figuring out what's going on with one line can often tell you what might happen in another line you care more about. The people who knew about the transition into rigid 3 year structures for 40K & AoS predicted that HH would get a new edition after 3 years. Someone does not have to be a HH player to be able to assess the success of the release. Nor do they have to want the game to succeed.

When I picked up my Saturnine the part-timer said it was the fifth box they sold. IIRC the initial sales on Age of Darkness was 6-7 boxes, and out of that only 3 of us ended up playing HH2. No idea who the other people who picked up Saturnine are.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:



And GW absolutely flubbed this release, and I'm not even going to talk about the rules, but the plastic.

There were a few that wanted Saturnine Terminators, I'll admit that. But I've never seen a request for a dreadnought in similar styling. Or a request for a heretofore unheard of gun emplacement. Or for disintegrator weapons to be moved from a "rarity even during the days of the Great Crusade" to squad level weapons.

To be clear: people were asking for things like Destroyer Squads, Ogryns, and Myrmidons in plastic. Not what we got. So, regardless of the rules, which, as you correctly say, are subjective, they still flubbed this, spectacularly. Giving us things that no one asked for, instead of what was actually asked for.

Got it.
GW flubbed thier release because they didn't make it conform to how you'd have done it.

Since you obviously know thier buissiness better than they do? Perhaps you should consider a career change & go set them right.

ccs wrote:

Got it.
GW flubbed thier release because they didn't make it conform to how you'd have done it.

Or possibly because of all those boxes barely moving at 35% discount?

ccs wrote:
Since you obviously know thier buissiness better than they do? Perhaps you should consider a career change & go set them right.

That makes a lot of sense when you consider no company has ever commited an error in judgement and they have perfect track records of only success.

At least GW has never made any mistakes or bad products, they also only care about their customers and everything they was always planned in advance/s

ccs wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:



And GW absolutely flubbed this release, and I'm not even going to talk about the rules, but the plastic.

There were a few that wanted Saturnine Terminators, I'll admit that. But I've never seen a request for a dreadnought in similar styling. Or a request for a heretofore unheard of gun emplacement. Or for disintegrator weapons to be moved from a "rarity even during the days of the Great Crusade" to squad level weapons.

To be clear: people were asking for things like Destroyer Squads, Ogryns, and Myrmidons in plastic. Not what we got. So, regardless of the rules, which, as you correctly say, are subjective, they still flubbed this, spectacularly. Giving us things that no one asked for, instead of what was actually asked for.

Got it.
GW flubbed thier release because they didn't make it conform to how you'd have done it.

Since you obviously know thier buissiness better than they do? Perhaps you should consider a career change & go set them right.

Sooo let me get this straight. We play HH which has more incommon with a wargame like BA albeit beeing set in a space universe and somehow we should just accept what is in essence STGW 44 Access to everyone and their mother?



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 kodos wrote:
At least GW has never made any mistakes or bad products, they also only care about their customers and everything they was always planned in advance/s

Oh dear, i did just remember 6th 7th 40k and end stage warhammer fantasy.

6th ed was the best edition.

The "nobody can target my invisible unit" thing was 5th edition.

In 6th it was any model targeting an invisible unit shoot at BS1 and melee at WS1.

The codex based deathstar stuff was what killed 6th.

Legacies PDF is up

https://assets.warhammer-community.com/eng_04-08_warhammer_the_horus_heresy_legacies_of_the_age_of_darkness-kwblao0gdd-aidm8yitdu.pdf

207 pages!

Best Page Is Mortifactor Page.

Each lets me add Three Dreadnoughts.

Also, where a character model can now be mounted or have a jump pack, they’re separate entries.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Kind of tempted to field a Moritfactor (Dreads), Forge Lord (Thallax) and a Preavin (Castellax) for a robotics heavy list.

Will it be any cop? I dunno. But willing to fart around and find out.

Tartaros Siege Squads look fun!

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Best Page Is Mortifactor Page.

Oh Yeah!

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Kind of tempted to field a Moritfactor (Dreads), Forge Lord (Thallax) and a Preavin (Castellax) for a robotics heavy list.

Me too. I was going to paint my robots a completely different scheme (green), but now might re-think that and lean into black (for my Iron Hands)...

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Kind of tempted to field a Moritfactor (Dreads), Forge Lord (Thallax) and a Preavin (Castellax) for a robotics heavy list.

Will it be any cop? I dunno. But willing to fart around and find out.

That does sound like a fun list to try. Here's my weird circus of mechanical things!

I guess they can technically say that HH3 is now the same game as HH2.

They even brought back the volcano cannon ordinatus! Good work to those unpaid interns scrambling for a week!

A little happier to see Legion Medusas made the cut, though my Phalanx Warders are still no use due to having bolters on most of them. May be able to actually build a half capable list with what I have now without having to buy more plastic. Will to have a play around one new recruit updates

beast_gts wrote:
207 pages!

Wow.... Totaly fixed the game. NVM that we have already dealys AND were forced by the community to do it. NVM that these units have nothing lost in the legacy part of the game alas...

The excuses will be made for GW, as they always were.

I’ve seen the claim they were forced into this…but where is that coming from?

The Liber lists were leaked first, and then GW announced a Legacies document, and further commented some stuff will be added back as the supplements come out.

But as for no legacies list intended, or an expanded one…where has that come from?

I wonder if this release will make people rethink playing HH 3.0.

From what I've read and seen it seems to be a pretty solid game system.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:


But as for no legacies list intended, or an expanded one…where has that come from?

YouTubers claiming it for algobait and people that need to have a conspiracy behind everything GW does.

The fact that most of this document was copy and paste but they still couldn't get it out on time is really testament to how much of the game GW is trying to cut out.

Copy and paste from where?

Are you serious?

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
I wonder if this release will make people rethink playing HH 3.0.

From what I've read and seen it seems to be a pretty solid game system.

Depends on if their choice was to not pick it up because they don't want the three year cycle or if the mass gutting of options was the issue.

Options being added in a PDF isn't a magical cure and at best is a plaster over a stab wound. You don't need wizard powers to know the outrage will be back if the rules writers do the exact same thing in 3 years time.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I’ve seen the claim they were forced into this…but where is that coming from?

The Liber lists were leaked first, and then GW announced a Legacies document, and further commented some stuff will be added back as the supplements come out.

But as for no legacies list intended, or an expanded one…where has that come from?

It’s more to reinforce we’ve nothing like enough information for any particular conclusion.

A 207 page Legacies document has been released, after they promised they would be releasing a Legacies doc. Therefore......that's a sign they already had the full document completed when they first announced it.

I’m sure you can see The Underpants Gnomes logic of that claim, yes? Because if you can, you’ll need to try much, much harder to convince me.

Ultimately, outside of people with nothing better to do than celebrate a company that doesn’t care about them? We’ve nowt beyond simple observation.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
But as for no legacies list intended, or an expanded one…where has that come from?

Check out the article that announced legacies on Warcom.

They had a list of what was going to be in it. The actual PDF now has a lot of stuff that isn't in the article, ranging from Arlatax to Sanguinary Guard and many more. There are also changed things from the article; for example Warcom said that the legacies PDF will restore Tartaros powerfists (they are even shown prominently on the article cover), but the Tartaros were abruptly FAQed directly into the Liber instead, with the legacies Tartaros instead being a... all-heavy-weapons squad? Because that is something specifically Tartaros needed to get but not Cataphractii? To me it seems a pretty obvious last minute repurposing of an already-announced PDF addition so that it'd do something at all after the errata release.

Edit: Hell, read the Tartaros Siege Squad PDF lore blurb. It's still talking about powerfists and chainfists, even though that's not what this unit actually is for now. Obvious last minute change.

 Altruizine wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I’ve seen the claim they were forced into this…but where is that coming from?

The Liber lists were leaked first, and then GW announced a Legacies document, and further commented some stuff will be added back as the supplements come out.

But as for no legacies list intended, or an expanded one…where has that come from?

It’s more to reinforce we’ve nothing like enough information for any particular conclusion.

A 207 page Legacies document has been released, after they promised they would be releasing a Legacies doc. Therefore......that's a sign they already had the full document completed when they first announced it.

I’m sure you can see The Underpants Gnomes logic of that claim, yes? Because if you can, you’ll need to try much, much harder to convince me.

Ultimately, outside of people with nothing better to do than celebrate a company that doesn’t care about them? We’ve nowt beyond simple observation.

Hi.

If you could address the question, that’d be fab. Because all this is? Is more aimless whining at someone you don’t like.

Ashiraya there provided something of interest in that regard.

Yourself? Just more whining. At me.