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 Gene St. Ealer wrote:

I don't want to criticize GW too harshly.

They've been at this for longer than some of us have lived. Criticize as harshly as you can.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Voss wrote:
Not sure why you thought that was going to be the case.

Because they said that there would be detachments for different types of armies, and a 1st Company army was given as an example. If Terminators aren't Battleline, and a 1st Company detachment doesn't make them Battleline, then you'd be limited in how many Terminators you can take in your 1st Company army. If they do an "Armoured Company" deatchment, and Russes aren't Battleline, how would you do an Armoured Company when Battleline are still infantry squads?

And just the other day they gave an example of a "Monster Mash" style Tyranid detachment. If Monsters aren't Battleline, yet the small bugs are, then it's just a regular Tyranid army with some different Strats/Enhancements.

As Scotty said above, if that's the case, people will just mathhammer out the most effective detachment and completely ignore the rest.

Detachments should have some influence on the army's structure, otherwise what's the damned point?

Not that I like to defend GW, but they did mention that different detachments would switch around Battleline, so we would have to wait for the codex to see what gets changed.

What we're given with the super gracious free download that totally won't have any errors is a mere TAC main army. This is FINE for getting by initially, but the real problem is the fact they're still gonna sell codices and therefore some armies will be stuck with outdated rules.

EviscerationPlague wrote:
This is FINE for getting by initially, but the real problem is the fact they're still gonna sell codices and therefore some armies will be stuck with outdated rules.

They've also said armies will be getting detachments in White Dwarf.

There's a lot of thing to hate, lots of change, but still some pretty interesting stuff! Can't wait for the point cost and a few other armies to see how bad we got it (or not).

Most of the big monster fight better than a Carnifex, and I'm talking the shooty/support ones Maleceptor, Exocrine, Tyrannofex, Tervigon, all hits on 3+, and some with pretty sweet attack profile all things considered!

Raveners seems fine, guns consolidation on them might be a good thing (again, need points).

Lost of Primes and Neurothropes suck for the variety. And I bought and built Prime in 9th since they gained access to Venom Cannon And Prime seems to be there just in name, no different wargears or stats.

Gargoyles ability is pretty Aeldarish too, love it.

The Trygon got half of the Mawloc ability; to be set up close to enemy but cannot charge when doing so (and just sitting there).

Twin link hurt the Harpy so bad, D3 shot only with the HVC.

Like the Sporocyst overwatch-style defense ability, it can shoot 4 times in that way and hits on 4+ now too! Guns on it where always too expensive (especially for hitting on 5+) so the consolidation helps here, and it got a lot tougher too! Maybe I'll finally be able to take mines out finally!

Each time a Tyranids model with this
A combo that may make ranged Warriors more useful with the nerf they have.

Hyper-adaptation makes an attack that targets an
enemy Character unit, if a Critical Hit is scored, that
attack has the [PRECISION] ability.

PRECISION= When targeting an Attached unit, the attacking
model’s player can have the attack allocated
to a Character model in that unit visible to
the bearer.


With shotting warriors with a flying prime with SUSTAINED HITS 1 add PRECISION as the detachment pick allows us to snipe SM characters and leaders out effectively? the HV and ST canons seam to make makeshift sniper unit as well with some punch.

The hive tyrants can hand this out as without the prime attached, though a stratagem. This can be done to two unit a turn it looks like. once for no 0-CP spent. Makes units of 6 look nicer even with the nerf.

Have to say I'm not shocked at them reducing gaunt unit sizes down to 20 - we've seen the same massive cut of model numbers in AoS (way more there). I think GW is trying to reign in the big infantry/unit blocks somewhat as they can be a barrier to entry. They can look freaking awesome; but also be a barrier to newbies getting armies.


Biggest sadness is seeing so many close combat weapons lost. Esp on the warrior when they split them into close combat and ranged variations. At the very least I was expecting to see them split warriors and then have close combat weapons that let you specialise them into say anti armour or anti chaff and such.
Good thing magnets exist because who knows next edition it could all change and back come rending claws

Red Terror is gone. Do you think it will be a squad leader for Raveners in case they would receive new kit?

So am I missing something or do Trygon Primes not exist anymore?

Also, Trygon ability of deep striking super close, but then getting to do nothing seems of incredibly limited use. On the flip side, the Mawloc has to be in normal deep strike range, meaning its only targets are enemies within 9-12" of it. It just seems kind of odd - I can get the Mawloc, as letting it deep strike close and forcing mortal wounds on a ton of enemies is probably too strong, but what exactly is the design plan for the Trygon? I mean, it can fire its gun from outside of 9", so its not like the closer range is doing anything for it there. Like I'd get it if it were able to say bring a unit via the tunnels with it, but as it stands it just doesn't seem to have a purpose beyond area denial.

 Overread wrote:
Have to say I'm not shocked at them reducing gaunt unit sizes down to 20 - we've seen the same massive cut of model numbers in AoS (way more there). I think GW is trying to reign in the big infantry/unit blocks somewhat as they can be a barrier to entry. They can look freaking awesome; but also be a barrier to newbies getting armies.

Cultists got the same cut down in numbers in 9th and I expect Orks to get it as well.

Trygon being able to drop at just over 3” does make it harder to screen out. You can more easily tuck it into places or drop between enemies.

I accept it’s standing there for a round but I assume the idea is that the rest of your army are using it as a distraction or vice versa.

Rapid ingress it into a position that is awkward for the enemy to deal with.

 kurhanik wrote:
So am I missing something or do Trygon Primes not exist anymore?

It is gone.

 Shadow Walker wrote:
Red Terror is gone. Do you think it will be a squad leader for Raveners in case they would receive new kit?

Seeing how Prime and Neurothrope are barely relevant to their units (Prime are dead in all but name, Neurothrope are there for 1 ability within 6", not a place you want your Zoanthrope to be most of the time), I wouldn't see a point to seeing the Red Terror return in that format. It would need to be something in-between a Ravener and a Trygon/Mawloc to have any hope of having a role in the army.

Took a look at the weapon ability spread for Tyranids...

# Distinct Weapon Profiles* (Ranged) - 42
# Distinct Weapon Profiles (Melee) - 42

Ranged Weapon Profiles without Abilities - 8
Melee Weapon Profiles without Abilities - 25

Assault - 6
Blast - 13
Devastating Wounds - 5
Extra Attacks - 6
Hazardous - 0
Heavy - 6
Ignores Cover - 3
Indirect Fire - 2
Lance - 0
Lethal Hits - 1
Melta - 0
Pistol - 3
Precision - 2
Psychic - 5
Rapid Fire - 0
Sustained Hits - 3
Torrent - 5
Twin-Linked - 12
Anti-Infantry - 5
Anti-Fly - 1
Anti-Psyker - 1
Anti-Vehicle - 2

I was surprised to see how few ranged weapons featured Assault/Heavy/Pistol/Rapid Fire - a definite shake-up between editions, more-so than I thought. I'm not sure whether to be surprised or not that Tyranids don't have an Anti-Monster weapon.

A lot of bare-bones melee profiles, too.

* - Defined as having a different name and/or different Abilities, not just different numbers. For example, "Xenos claws and teeth" and "Xenos claws and teeth [SUSTAINED HITS 1]" are defined as distinct. Weapons/powers with multiple profiles and different Abilities (such as Warp Blast) will be included multiple times.

 Platuan4th wrote:
Cultists got the same cut down in numbers in 9th and I expect Orks to get it as well.

Since the (old) Ork Boyz kit comes with 10 boyz and 1 nob, I wonder if they'll get IG style units with 20 boyz and 2 nobs. Kinda like Goff boyz used to.

Santtu wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:
Cultists got the same cut down in numbers in 9th and I expect Orks to get it as well.

Since the (old) Ork Boyz kit comes with 10 boyz and 1 nob, I wonder if they'll get IG style units with 20 boyz and 2 nobs. Kinda like Goff boyz used to.

More likely a Nob per every 10(9+1 or 18+2) because that's how the new Boyz box works and they're definitely going with the new box over the old.

Why hasn’t GW released a model called the ‘Misanthrope’?

Missing a trick, GW.

Unless they have. In which case they haven’t.

 Platuan4th wrote:

Santtu wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:
Cultists got the same cut down in numbers in 9th and I expect Orks to get it as well.

Since the (old) Ork Boyz kit comes with 10 boyz and 1 nob, I wonder if they'll get IG style units with 20 boyz and 2 nobs. Kinda like Goff boyz used to.

More likely a Nob per every 10(9+1 or 18+2) because that's how the new Boyz box works and they're definitely going with the new box over the old.

On the other hand, the 'new box' only makes mixed weapon squads, which they may not even allow.

Voss wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

Santtu wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:
Cultists got the same cut down in numbers in 9th and I expect Orks to get it as well.

Since the (old) Ork Boyz kit comes with 10 boyz and 1 nob, I wonder if they'll get IG style units with 20 boyz and 2 nobs. Kinda like Goff boyz used to.

More likely a Nob per every 10(9+1 or 18+2) because that's how the new Boyz box works and they're definitely going with the new box over the old.

On the other hand, the 'new box' only makes mixed weapon squads, which they may not even allow.

Oh god, it's going to be 1 ork mob armed with "Ork Shooty Weapons" and "Ork Choppy Weapons"

Haruspex is the one that’s most caught my eye. Just a nice all-rounder with no easy counter. You can’t reliably tar pit it. Trying to send in a bubble wrapped heavy hitter may not pay off. And it looks tough enough to need some concentrated firepower to drop it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It does feel like Nids lack solid anti-tank other than the Bio Cannon. But….with Objective Control, I’m thinking focusing on enemy infantry may be the general order of the day, and Nids look like they’ll be able to do that fairly nicely, as we certainly don’t hurt for ways to bump off bog standard infantry.

I thought the SOP for bugs when facing armour was to send in genestealers or similar with some sort of rending close assault ability and just go all "tin opener" on them?

I mean yet you can try to trade blows at range, I mean gives you something to do while the genestealers get into position but with bugs its "quantity has a quality all of its own" etc, go in, roll a lot of dice, with hopefully decent stats and eat them

more squishy stuff will regret getting close and the board is small enough to run the enemy out of space before they run you out of bodies, hopefully, some of the bigger stuff is nice, carnifex in "tin opener" configuration has always been fun

I do worry about the game though, I can see a future where you have a codex for each marine chapter and then "Codex: Everything else" with "Xenos melee weapon", "Xenos ranged weapon" and maybe a "heavy" version of each

 Shadow Walker wrote:
Red Terror is gone. Do you think it will be a squad leader for Raveners in case they would receive new kit?

I Doubt it. I'd rather see them making it an Uber-Trygon like in the artwork in 3rd edition codex and as a centerpiece model. But who knows.

Voss wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

Santtu wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:
Cultists got the same cut down in numbers in 9th and I expect Orks to get it as well.

Since the (old) Ork Boyz kit comes with 10 boyz and 1 nob, I wonder if they'll get IG style units with 20 boyz and 2 nobs. Kinda like Goff boyz used to.

More likely a Nob per every 10(9+1 or 18+2) because that's how the new Boyz box works and they're definitely going with the new box over the old.

On the other hand, the 'new box' only makes mixed weapon squads, which they may not even allow.

Nah, it's GW, they'll allow only that specific mix of weapons.

 kurhanik wrote:
Also, Trygon ability of deep striking super close, but then getting to do nothing seems of incredibly limited use. On the flip side, the Mawloc has to be in normal deep strike range, meaning its only targets are enemies within 9-12" of it.

It's like whomever wrote the rules for those two units got them mixed up and forgot the Trygon Prime was a thing at the same time.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 kurhanik wrote:
Also, Trygon ability of deep striking super close, but then getting to do nothing seems of incredibly limited use. On the flip side, the Mawloc has to be in normal deep strike range, meaning its only targets are enemies within 9-12" of it.

It's like whomever wrote the rules for those two units got them mixed up and forgot the Trygon Prime was a thing at the same time.

Haha, that sounds suspiciously correct.

Only way the Trygon ability will make sense will be with a "deepstrike" detachment from the codex that will have rules/strats to go along with it. As it is on it's own it quite useless.

 Shadow Walker wrote:

 kurhanik wrote:
So am I missing something or do Trygon Primes not exist anymore?

It is gone.

Makes sense right? It was meant to fill out the HQ selection, a few extra models have been added to the range so I guess they figured it's not needed any more.

 Skywave wrote:
Only way the Trygon ability will make sense will be with a "deepstrike" detachment from the codex that will have rules/strats to go along with it. As it is on it's own it quite useless.

It's useful for blocking movement (especially down tight corridors), ambushing onto objectives (which are now huge) to out OC small units, and also for fitting it into finnicky spots where it can threaten something vital and make an opponent REALLY think of if they're okay with letting it live.

I'm not saying it's amazing or game breaking, but it sure as gak aint useless.

It was nice to have an HQ choice that brought with it a unique play style, and had an unusual theme. A tunneller army, with a tunneller leader.

Not having it there is a damned shame.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:
When I have more time - and maybe when we have more cards - I'll start looking for rules which appear as frequently as some of these abilities and therefore could have been Abilities/USRs as well.

Not if I beat you to it.

The more the merrier - from going over the Tyranid cards, I've got eight strong contenders, and another couple of possibilities.

Not saying they all show up in 'Nids enough to justify USRs from that alone, but they're things I think we'll see recycled across the other datacards with different names.

Yeah, how often they appear across all the data cards is the main part. If there's one that just appears like 4 times but only for Tyranids, then big deal. But if it's appearing 4 times per army, and every army has it, then yeah, it should be a USR.