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I personally wouldn't mind seeing a version of Lysander in Centurion armor. Giving him a hurricane bolter in his chest and a heavy flamer under his storm shield would be pretty sweet.

I would not be so quick to assume guardsmen are going to get a pts hike just because cultists are, thats not how GW 'think'.

Sad thing is making cultists 5pts does not make CSM a better choice it just makes CSM armies worse...

Plus even at 5pts they are still a better choice than a CSM. They should bring in free weapon upgrades for CSM and tactical marines that would make them maybe worth it.

The change of -1 to hit traits to +1 Cover: Does it mean that...
a) you get +1 armour save when in cover like the lictor
b) are always in cover like jormungandr
c) both?

 Latro_ wrote:
I would not be so quick to assume guardsmen are going to get a pts hike just because cultists are, thats not how GW 'think'.

Sad thing is making cultists 5pts does not make CSM a better choice it just makes CSM armies worse...

Plus even at 5pts they are still a better choice than a CSM. They should bring in free weapon upgrades for CSM and tactical marines that would make them maybe worth it.

If Cultists got to 5 ppm and Guard doesn't even as I non Choas player I'd be complaining to GW as that's totally unfair.

 Astmeister wrote:
The change of -1 to hit traits to +1 Cover: Does it mean that...
a) you get +1 armour save when in cover like the lictor
b) are always in cover like jormungandr
c) both?

Option A. +1 armour when in cover.

Which makes Imperial Fists and Iron Warriors Chapter Tactics Savage AF. I would place money on the fact all of the Counts-As Raven Guard and whatnot armies will be Counts-As something else now (likely Ultramarines).

Rumor has it that ALL Space Marine and Chaos Space Marine units will benefit from Chapter Tactics. That would give me a ton of Ignores Cover tanks now. Could be fun.

Ice_can wrote:

 Latro_ wrote:
I would not be so quick to assume guardsmen are going to get a pts hike just because cultists are, thats not how GW 'think'.

Sad thing is making cultists 5pts does not make CSM a better choice it just makes CSM armies worse...

Plus even at 5pts they are still a better choice than a CSM. They should bring in free weapon upgrades for CSM and tactical marines that would make them maybe worth it.

If Cultists got to 5 ppm and Guard doesn't even as I non Choas player I'd be complaining to GW as that's totally unfair.

GW haven't cared about normal chaos marines for years. Nothing's gonna change that as made clear by haarkan no one will ever use him "worldbreaker"

Okay, so AL Terminators in Cover have a 0+ Save then. Sounds interesting... ;-)

 Motograter wrote:

Ice_can wrote:

 Latro_ wrote:
I would not be so quick to assume guardsmen are going to get a pts hike just because cultists are, thats not how GW 'think'.

Sad thing is making cultists 5pts does not make CSM a better choice it just makes CSM armies worse...

Plus even at 5pts they are still a better choice than a CSM. They should bring in free weapon upgrades for CSM and tactical marines that would make them maybe worth it.

If Cultists got to 5 ppm and Guard doesn't even as I non Choas player I'd be complaining to GW as that's totally unfair.

GW haven't cared about normal chaos marines for years. Nothing's gonna change that as made clear by haarkan no one will ever use him "worldbreaker"

No one?

No one at all?

Anywhere?

Ever?

Not one single person?

Ice_can wrote:

 Latro_ wrote:
I would not be so quick to assume guardsmen are going to get a pts hike just because cultists are, thats not how GW 'think'.

Sad thing is making cultists 5pts does not make CSM a better choice it just makes CSM armies worse...

Plus even at 5pts they are still a better choice than a CSM. They should bring in free weapon upgrades for CSM and tactical marines that would make them maybe worth it.

If Cultists got to 5 ppm and Guard doesn't even as I non Choas player I'd be complaining to GW as that's totally unfair.

The way they wrote it it looked like they were hitting a few more spamable troops as well.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Which makes Imperial Fists and Iron Warriors Chapter Tactics Savage AF. I would place money on the fact all of the Counts-As Raven Guard and whatnot armies will be Counts-As something else now (likely Ultramarines).

Rumor has it that ALL Space Marine and Chaos Space Marine units will benefit from Chapter Tactics. That would give me a ton of Ignores Cover tanks now. Could be fun.

Land Speeders squads losing only 1 model to morale... sounds goid
DA tanks re-rolling 1s when not moving... sounds AWESOME

 Vector Strike wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Which makes Imperial Fists and Iron Warriors Chapter Tactics Savage AF. I would place money on the fact all of the Counts-As Raven Guard and whatnot armies will be Counts-As something else now (likely Ultramarines).

Rumor has it that ALL Space Marine and Chaos Space Marine units will benefit from Chapter Tactics. That would give me a ton of Ignores Cover tanks now. Could be fun.

Land Speeders squads losing only 1 model to morale... sounds goid
DA tanks re-rolling 1s when not moving... sounds AWESOME

I'm not sure whether this is "rumour", "speculation" or "wishlisting". It could very well be true but I'm definitely not counting any chickens right now.

I'd say I'm 99% certain that the spear has a melee profile. They talk about him choosing between it and his lightning claw in melee. Mistakes have been made in the past wiht warhammer community posts and this is clearly one of those. Either the text is wrong for saying it can be used in melee, or they wrongly posted only part of the weapon's profile. So let's see.

He still probably won't see use, because people run DPs instead, but that's a whole other thing.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Calgar's rules are pretty decent. He provides a great bonus to the units around him and is quite survivable. He isn't Guilliman, but he is pretty great. The Honour Guard are probably going to be pretty decent as well.

I am hoping that other Chapter Masters go through the process. I would love to have a new Pedro Kantor rocking Mk X armor. Lysander in Gravis Armor. Dante in Gravis Armor with a Jump Pack (he would hit like a damned freight train!). I could see all of these happening.

Me, I'd hope if Lysander gets primarised, he'll be the star in the "I'd rather go naked than wear Gravy" campaign instead.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
I personally wouldn't mind seeing a version of Lysander in Centurion armor. Giving him a hurricane bolter in his chest and a heavy flamer under his storm shield would be pretty sweet.

Totally based on personal bias, but they should just make anatomically sound terminator armor scaled to Mk.X and cut out this nonsense ever more silly looking Marine armors. Stick with the classics people know and love, now in chrome and high definition.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Which makes Imperial Fists and Iron Warriors Chapter Tactics Savage AF. I would place money on the fact all of the Counts-As Raven Guard and whatnot armies will be Counts-As something else now (likely Ultramarines).

Rumor has it that ALL Space Marine and Chaos Space Marine units will benefit from Chapter Tactics. That would give me a ton of Ignores Cover tanks now. Could be fun.

Savage? Considering how I and everyone I talked to felt about the Imperial Fisrs (and Iron Warriors for that matter) chapter trait, I think it will be neat to get some actual use out of the chapter trait for once..

Still not a fan of design where one chapter trait cancels out another chapter trait, though. That only ever leaves one player out in the rain feeling they paid for something they won't get, unlike their opponent who is free to enjoy their extra benefit. That's just not good game design.

 Geifer wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Calgar's rules are pretty decent. He provides a great bonus to the units around him and is quite survivable. He isn't Guilliman, but he is pretty great. The Honour Guard are probably going to be pretty decent as well.

I am hoping that other Chapter Masters go through the process. I would love to have a new Pedro Kantor rocking Mk X armor. Lysander in Gravis Armor. Dante in Gravis Armor with a Jump Pack (he would hit like a damned freight train!). I could see all of these happening.

Me, I'd hope if Lysander gets primarised, he'll be the star in the "I'd rather go naked than wear Gravy" campaign instead.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
I personally wouldn't mind seeing a version of Lysander in Centurion armor. Giving him a hurricane bolter in his chest and a heavy flamer under his storm shield would be pretty sweet.

Totally based on personal bias, but they should just make anatomically sound terminator armor scaled to Mk.X and cut out this nonsense ever more silly looking Marine armors. Stick with the classics people know and love, now in chrome and high definition.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Which makes Imperial Fists and Iron Warriors Chapter Tactics Savage AF. I would place money on the fact all of the Counts-As Raven Guard and whatnot armies will be Counts-As something else now (likely Ultramarines).

Rumor has it that ALL Space Marine and Chaos Space Marine units will benefit from Chapter Tactics. That would give me a ton of Ignores Cover tanks now. Could be fun.

Savage? Considering how I and everyone I talked to felt about the Imperial Fisrs (and Iron Warriors for that matter) chapter trait, I think it will be neat to get some actual use out of the chapter trait for once..

Still not a fan of design where one chapter trait cancels out another chapter trait, though. That only ever leaves one player out in the rain feeling they paid for something they won't get, unlike their opponent who is free to enjoy their extra benefit. That's just not good game design.

Yeah, it'd be nice if it were worded independent of cover (+1 to save rolls while the unit is fully on or within terrain and the enemy unit attacking them is over 12" away) so that the imp fists trait would still have some effect, but wouldn't completely cancel out alaitoc.

Kind of moot, since all eldar are most likely just going to switch over to being ulthwe tbh, but it'd be nice.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Which makes Imperial Fists and Iron Warriors Chapter Tactics Savage AF. I would place money on the fact all of the Counts-As Raven Guard and whatnot armies will be Counts-As something else now (likely Ultramarines).

Rumor has it that ALL Space Marine and Chaos Space Marine units will benefit from Chapter Tactics. That would give me a ton of Ignores Cover tanks now. Could be fun.

This would be amazing if it also applied to Death Guard. Honestly, I'm hoping for some point drops there too (I get that the Crawler might get a bump though) since Plague Marines and the Terminators are a bit overcosted. The Blight-Hauler too; its points are alright for what it has, but it doesn't do its role well enough to justify the points (mostly because 4+ to hit is terrible and you need 3 of them which racks up the points by a lot).

 Geifer wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Which makes Imperial Fists and Iron Warriors Chapter Tactics Savage AF. I would place money on the fact all of the Counts-As Raven Guard and whatnot armies will be Counts-As something else now (likely Ultramarines).

Rumor has it that ALL Space Marine and Chaos Space Marine units will benefit from Chapter Tactics. That would give me a ton of Ignores Cover tanks now. Could be fun.

Savage? Considering how I and everyone I talked to felt about the Imperial Fisrs (and Iron Warriors for that matter) chapter trait, I think it will be neat to get some actual use out of the chapter trait for once..

Still not a fan of design where one chapter trait cancels out another chapter trait, though. That only ever leaves one player out in the rain feeling they paid for something they won't get, unlike their opponent who is free to enjoy their extra benefit. That's just not good game design.

The one that really will be savage is Kabal of the Flayed Skull, since it's not just Ignores Cover but +3" to movement and reroll 1's for rapid fire weapons.

And this is why I'm not a fan of the change from -1 to hit to +1 cover (and I'm pretty sure it's going to work like Jormongander or Shroud Psalm where you always count as being in cover rather than an extra +1 on top of being in cover). It's lazy, boring and oh so very easy for a number of armies to just out right invalidate it.

 Imateria wrote:

The one that really will be savage is Kabal of the Flayed Skull, since it's not just Ignores Cover but +3" to movement and reroll 1's for rapid fire weapons.

And this is why I'm not a fan of the change from -1 to hit to +1 cover (and I'm pretty sure it's going to work like Jormongander or Shroud Psalm where you always count as being in cover rather than an extra +1 on top of being in cover). It's lazy, boring and oh so very easy for a number of armies to just out right invalidate it.

I also think it's going to be count as in cover. In regards to some traits flat out cancelling out other, yeah it's no fun. Ask any night lords player how much use they get out of their traits against tyranids.. But at the same time, it's pretty tough to think of simple, useful traits that aren't negated by other traits IMO.

Then again, maybe it is actually that you get +2 to your save while in cover..? Question is, what will shroudpsalm/prepared positions end up doing? If you get +2 to your save for the entire army for 2CP during that first turn it's going to make killing chaff pretty obnoxious

 Virules wrote:
New White Dwarf says new datasheet for Horrors?

orly?

Where did you hear this? I figured they were pretty solid - aside from splitting, which never gets used. I hope they don't go the AoS route though.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Virules wrote:
New White Dwarf says new datasheet for Horrors?

orly?

Where did you hear this? I figured they were pretty solid - aside from splitting, which never gets used. I hope they don't go the AoS route though.

I hope that they publish White Dwarf sheets online. Having time limited rules that are difficult to obtain has been a nightmare in the past.

Narrative preview today, whew !

With each passing day my anxiousness grows, I feel like a leak addict. A rumour addict.

At last, Tuesday I'll get to read CA.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Rumor has it that ALL Space Marine and Chaos Space Marine units will benefit from Chapter Tactics. That would give me a ton of Ignores Cover tanks now. Could be fun.

Oh man, if that were true...look out White Scars Repulsors lol

New, lower, and sexier point cost, able to charge to tie a unit up and hide from shooting, fall back and blast away, then charge again to hide once more. Use the transport payload to help lock the unit down from falling back.

6+ FNP on all marine vehicles would make Iron Hands lists definitely want to focus on vehicles (as they bloody should).

Black Crazies, Space Pups, and Vampire Angels won't gain a benefit to their vehicles, which is fine - infantry slashy dudes after all.

Re-roll 1s to wound on Deathwatch vehicles (why they never got this in the first place is beyond me...) based on Mission Tactics makes sense. Though if there was one thing I want for Christmas, it's SIA on vehicle storm bolters...

Oh also those heretical holes...

Dark Angels, re-roll 1s to hit without the need to castle up around a captain...

Don't know enough about chaos to comment - but aren't things like fiends and defilers vehicles? Could benefit from those in unique ways...

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Which makes Imperial Fists and Iron Warriors Chapter Tactics Savage AF. I would place money on the fact all of the Counts-As Raven Guard and whatnot armies will be Counts-As something else now (likely Ultramarines).

Rumor has it that ALL Space Marine and Chaos Space Marine units will benefit from Chapter Tactics. That would give me a ton of Ignores Cover tanks now. Could be fun.

I think we are going to start seeing a lot more imperial fists. Ignore cover is huge for space marine vehicles and we will likely be seeing a lot of these +1 cover save traits.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Which makes Imperial Fists and Iron Warriors Chapter Tactics Savage AF. I would place money on the fact all of the Counts-As Raven Guard and whatnot armies will be Counts-As something else now (likely Ultramarines).

Rumor has it that ALL Space Marine and Chaos Space Marine units will benefit from Chapter Tactics. That would give me a ton of Ignores Cover tanks now. Could be fun.

I think we are going to start seeing a lot more imperial fists. Ignore cover is huge for space marine vehicles and we will likely be seeing a lot of these +1 cover save traits.

That sounds promising for Iron Warriors then as well for the same reasons (with less cool new models)

 Burnage wrote:

 Astmeister wrote:
The change of -1 to hit traits to +1 Cover: Does it mean that...
a) you get +1 armour save when in cover like the lictor
b) are always in cover like jormungandr
c) both?

Option A. +1 armour when in cover.

Do you have a source or quote for that? Because no one seems to be able to confirm either way.
Option A or B seem just as likely as each other, while option C keeps those traits statistically about the same as -1 to be hit.
The point of the change is to limit -1 to hit stacking, not to nerf the traits outright.

-

 Galef wrote:

 Burnage wrote:

 Astmeister wrote:
The change of -1 to hit traits to +1 Cover: Does it mean that...
a) you get +1 armour save when in cover like the lictor
b) are always in cover like jormungandr
c) both?

Option A. +1 armour when in cover.

Do you have a source or quote for that? Because no one seems to be able to confirm either way.
Option A or B seem just as likely as each other, while option C keeps those traits statistically about the same as -1 to be hit.
The point of the change is to limit -1 to hit stacking, not to nerf the traits outright.

-

I think it should be C in any case. Still keeps it interesting and makes choosing armies with ignores cover or high AP weapons that much more important.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Which makes Imperial Fists and Iron Warriors Chapter Tactics Savage AF. I would place money on the fact all of the Counts-As Raven Guard and whatnot armies will be Counts-As something else now (likely Ultramarines).

Rumor has it that ALL Space Marine and Chaos Space Marine units will benefit from Chapter Tactics. That would give me a ton of Ignores Cover tanks now. Could be fun.

I think we are going to start seeing a lot more imperial fists. Ignore cover is huge for space marine vehicles and we will likely be seeing a lot of these +1 cover save traits.

Bah. Yellow is so difficult to paint. Crimson Fists all the way. Or Excoriators. Because who doesn't love an army that is literally designed for people who can't paint well.

The thing I am kind of waiting for is the amount of people whining about how Space Marines and Chaos Space Marines got a big broken boost, even though most armies always had the ability Space Marines might be getting (it is a rumor, after all). Because nevermind the fact that Alaitoc applied their trait to all models, but Raven Guard only got it on Infantry and Dreadnoughts.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Galef wrote:

 Burnage wrote:

 Astmeister wrote:
The change of -1 to hit traits to +1 Cover: Does it mean that...
a) you get +1 armour save when in cover like the lictor
b) are always in cover like jormungandr
c) both?

Option A. +1 armour when in cover.

Do you have a source or quote for that? Because no one seems to be able to confirm either way.
Option A or B seem just as likely as each other, while option C keeps those traits statistically about the same as -1 to be hit.
The point of the change is to limit -1 to hit stacking, not to nerf the traits outright.

-

I think it should be C in any case. Still keeps it interesting and makes choosing armies with ignores cover or high AP weapons that much more important.

I agree. It should be both. Straight up +1 to cover when 12" away.

They laughed at me when I chose Crimson Fists. They mocked me when we didn't even get our own Chapter Tactic, but somehow did get our own (bad) warlord trait. But now our day has come.

It's fisting time.

Tbf though in casual games I've gotten a lot of use out of their chapter tactic already, especially as one of my regular opponents is Ad Mech. Now just hoping our Formation is boss.

Don't forget our pointless stratagem!

But yeah, I've found Crimson Fists to be pretty ok. Now if other people start playing them too I'm fine with that.

Oh and it's still awesome that we get an actually very good relic, and that (inexplicably) the guy wielding it has got cheaper.

IanVanCheese wrote:
They laughed at me when I chose Crimson Fists. They mocked me when we didn't even get our own Chapter Tactic, but somehow did get our own (bad) warlord trait. But now our day has come.

It's fisting time.

Tbf though in casual games I've gotten a lot of use out of their chapter tactic already, especially as one of my regular opponents is Ad Mech. Now just hoping our Formation is boss.

I am hoping the formation has its own Warlord Trait and that it allows Pedro Kantor to be taken as part of it. That way he can get access to a less pants Warlord Trait (Lysander can take the much cooler WL Trait in the Supremacy Cohort). Otherwise, I am sure my Captain will be my Warlord instead of Pedro, as is usual.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mandragola wrote:
Don't forget our pointless stratagem!

But yeah, I've found Crimson Fists to be pretty ok. Now if other people start playing them too I'm fine with that.

Oh and it's still awesome that we get an actually very good relic, and that (inexplicably) the guy wielding it has got cheaper.

Have you ever used Bolter Drill on a full squad of Aggressors in the presence of a Captain with Storm of Fire. It is insane.

Lemondish wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Rumor has it that ALL Space Marine and Chaos Space Marine units will benefit from Chapter Tactics. That would give me a ton of Ignores Cover tanks now. Could be fun.

Black Crazies, Space Pups, and Vampire Angels won't gain a benefit to their vehicles, which is fine - infantry slashy dudes after all.

So you’re advocating separate buffs for vehicles for these factions and not just giving them the middle finger, right?