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I think the Void Dragon is brilliant if you bring enough melee units to handle everything else. Can just sit him in midfield and bully vehicles. I'm defo going to buy one soon, shame on GW for charging over £60 for it though.

Cynista wrote:
I think the Void Dragon is brilliant if you bring enough melee units to handle everything else. Can just sit him in midfield and bully vehicles. I'm defo going to buy one soon, shame on GW for charging over £60 for it though.

I had to have it right away. A few quid over priced but what isn't that GW is selling?

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Don Qui Hotep wrote:
As I was putting my list together, I ended up putting together one 20-robit squad of Flayers, which will advance with the Immortals and CCB. My intention is to put another 20-robit with Reapers and put them in a Night Scythe.

I'm picking up Nightbringer but I'm a bit worried about him lasting beyond the second turn; is the best bet just to tuck your C'tans out of LoS? Hard to see another way to keep them safe. It's 10 PM. Do you know where your Star Gods are?

Well, suppose he's out of LoS Turn 1, he'd be safe from smites, and LoS-ignoring shooting only gets 3 wounds off. Likely not loosing 3 wounds in the fight phase that turn. Turn 2, living metal gets him back to seven wounds. If your opponent can spam smites then he could loose 3 in the Psychic Phase - but it seems other than specialty lists people aren't spamming Psykers this edition. So three more wounds in the shooting phase, between 4 and 1 wounds remaining.

I suppose that gives you one more turn to get him into combat. Please let me know if I'm missing anything. I've only got to play one game of 9th ed so far, and the past 10 years I've been playing Chaos Marines and tend to overestimate a unit's durability. Cheers.

Best thing you can do is threat saturation - I put warriors and lots of other threats on the table like doom scythes and LHD - typically void dragon gets ignored. Also - I would advise void dragon or Tctan over the night bringer. Night bringer is a beast but too expensive. You want the longer range ctan spells - they have way more impact.

So the c'tan are in an interesting spot right now, I think if you're only planning on running 1 c'tan then the Nightbringer might not be the best, but if you're planning on running multiple then he should be a very serious contender in your list. It really depends on the role you're looking to fill, as the playstyle for fielding 1 c'tan over multiple shards is actually very different. Generally you want to play cagey with the c'tan and use them to spam mortals - the transcendent especially isnt that powerful in CC and has a tendency to get tar pitted if your opponent does get too close. The Nightbringer is obviously an exception to this, but because of this, people like to focus him down unless you do as Xenos said and present multiple threats at once on a turn you want the NB to be potentially charging. This kind of fits with the silvertides up close and punchy play style, but generally you'll get more out of the silent king in the same position if you are running a silver tide.

We've seen recently a trend toward big, durable centre piece models coming out of the new codexs - the Nightbringer is without a doubt the best individual unit we have in dealing with your opponents high wound, high toughness, high invun models. Gaze of Death is IMO the best power outside of Sky of Falling Stars. Yeah the range on it is short, but you can target enemy characters freely and, if you spike, doing 9 mortals to a single unit before charging is absolutely brutal. Multiple c'tan lists can weirdly lack this sort of super heavy focus damage without the NB, and as I mentioned earlier, can be pretty liable to tarpitting without him.

Really what I'm trying to say is that the c'tan can be very matchup dependent. If you play a lot of Dark Angels or Death Guard then the mortals from multiple shards are really gonna help make their points back quickly, or even just the threat of the NB into Morty can greatly influence the game, but you're gonna have a bad time if you play the same list into an ork army with 80+ gretchen and 18 smasha guns. As such, I don't actually think they're our most competitive choices, regardless of wether you're running multiple or not, but are on the rise at the moment because they're a great way of getting round things like permanent transhuman physiology.

I've put together a couple of lists with Nightbringer actually, one of which attempts to make use of multiple C'tan. The idea here is to throw mortal wounds around like they're going out of fashion. Hopefully this will make life pretty uncomfortable for people like apothecaries, while also hurting elite models quite a lot.

I thought my flayer warriors might work in 10-skelly blobs as Sautekh but honestly for rapid fire it looks to me like Immortals are simply better. They do more damage and are much tougher, point for point. Plus units are cheaper so they let me fit in more fun stuff, but they're easier to hide and better for actions.

C+C on this list would be most welcome. Note, I lose command protocols but I'm not sure I care.

Sautekh Battalion

Imotekh the Stormlord (Warlord) 145

Plasmancer 70

5 Immortals (Gauss) 85

5 Immortals (Gauss) 85

5 Immortals (Gauss) 85

C'tan Shard of the Void Dragon 350

Rad-Wreathed/Expansionist Patrol

Overlord 125
Voltaic Staff
Resurrection Orb
Thrall of the Silent King

Plasmancer 70
Veil of Darkness

Psychomancer 95
Atavindicator

20 Warriors (Reapers) 260

20 Warriors (Reapers) 260

C'tan shard of the Nightbringer 370

Where are we with the Deceiver? Do people like Deep Striking him? If you do, does he still let you redeploy units?

I still like the idea of one, if not two C'tans in my list. The reason being that against certain matchups, C'tans are extremely hard to kill. Some armies that rely on shooting only, like Tau would have a tough time killing a C'tan. Even against armies that have shooting, melee and psychic, it depends on how you position your C'tans. You can use scarabs or necron warriors to screen out smites and prevent C'tans from being hit by melee.

A C'tan moving up behind a massive Necron block of warriors can survive a long time if the opponent cannot get into the C'tan melee engagement range or smite the C'tan due to the melee block. 4 or even 5 turns of that C'tan spamming its two powers every turn would be potent. (Not to mention it can serve as a counter charge to anything threatening the necron warriors in melee).

Also, we are seeing more and more "unkillable" or extremely hard to kill stuff like Mortarion, big bloc of deathwing termi, etc. where mortal wounds are better served than any anti-tank weapon we might have. (And let's be honest, our heavy support choices aren't exactly the best either).

I think I agree that C'tan are viable. If you have one then, while it's true you might meet someone good at killing them, it's not really so bad if they do. You don't auto-lose from having your C'tan die. And they're great in the right situations so it's worth the risk.

Alternatively, I think taking multiple C'tan puts you in a place where few people are going to easily take them all out. And the mortal wounds they spam themselves will start to seriously threaten the stuff (especially psykers) that would be a threat to them.

Mandragola wrote:
I think I agree that C'tan are viable. If you have one then, while it's true you might meet someone good at killing them, it's not really so bad if they do. You don't auto-lose from having your C'tan die. And they're great in the right situations so it's worth the risk.

Alternatively, I think taking multiple C'tan puts you in a place where few people are going to easily take them all out. And the mortal wounds they spam themselves will start to seriously threaten the stuff (especially psykers) that would be a threat to them.

Oh no I certainly think they're viable, sorry if my previous post made it out that they weren't - I just think that right now they're the most viable they've been in a while, but are still weaker to bad matchups when you're running multiples; which in turn makes them difficult to be truly consistent at a competitive level.

I actually liked your list Mandragola, you've got a lot of those horde clearing elements that really help the c'tan as well as some nice action monkeys in the immortals - it certainly seems well balanced

Cheers. I actually realised I don’t need so many immortals, as Imotekh’s detachment could also be a patrol. Dropping two squads would let me take 5 wraiths, putting another real threat on the board. I could potentially go a bit more conventional by trading the three crypteks for 6 skorpekh destroyers. That might be a fun list with a lot of aggression, though maybe a lack of utility.

Edit: ok let's see what I can do if I stop mucking about with all those Crypteks.

Sautekh Patrol

Imotekh the Stormlord (Warlord) 145

5 Immortals (Gauss) 85

C'tan Shard of the Void Dragon 350

Eternal Expansionist Patrol

Catacomb Command Barge 180
Gauss Cannon
Res orb
Enduring Will
Voltaic Staff

Chronomancer 80
Veil of Darkness

20 Warriors (Reapers) 260

20 Warriors (Reapers) 260

5 Deathmarks 90

C'tan shard of the Nightbringer 370

5 Wraiths 175

I like this codex. There are a lot of different ways to play. So many units have utility in all sorts of different ways and there's a job to do balancing utility vs threat. The deathmarks here are an interesting option as I think they might be well-placed to take advantage if I cause some splash mortal wounds to characters here and there. Mostly though, they're in the list for scramblers and stuff like that. I could drop them and the Chronomancer for another 5 wraiths but I think I want the action utility. I'd better buy some deathmarks!

If I was gonna go with double Ctan. I would certainly do it in a Szarekhan list with the silent king. It will give you 2 denies per turn to protect those Ctan from psychic powers.

I'd go for a Tctan and a voiddragon. It will also protect you from your own explosions. Keep in mind all these models blow up on a 4+. LOL.

double ctan AND the SK? Wheres your army dude? lol.

Even if one is a TCtan thats more than half your army in 3 models, which in 9th is generally a bad idea. And you need 2 patrols for the Ctans.

Thanks for the feedback on the C'tan choice, seems like there's a few options. I'm still interested in Nightbringer (and he's already shipped out of Memphis to my apartment), but if I don't like how he plays I can proxy him for a different shard. Here's my 2000 point list as it stands now. Any input would be appreciated.



The only purchases "locked in" are the five immortals, 20x flayers, CCB, Royal Warden, and Destroyers. I saved the death ray and could swap the Night Scythe for a Doom Scythe if need be, or run the Nightbringer as a Transcendent C'tan and free up more points. Due to no (2000 point) games since the beginning of the pandemic, I'm still thinking in terms of 8th edition (and Chaos Marines!) so if there's anything I'm overlooking, or assumptions I shouldn't be making please let me know. Growth mindset!

 Vineheart01 wrote:
double ctan AND the SK? Wheres your army dude? lol.

Even if one is a TCtan thats more than half your army in 3 models, which in 9th is generally a bad idea. And you need 2 patrols for the Ctans.

The rest of the army is pretty much immortals in that list. Have not run it before but In theory it could work.

Chrono
Techno
27 immortals
20 warriors
Tctan
Voiddragon
SK

Even got some room for upgrades on the cryptics too.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
double ctan AND the SK? Wheres your army dude? lol.

Even if one is a TCtan thats more than half your army in 3 models, which in 9th is generally a bad idea. And you need 2 patrols for the Ctans.

The rest of the army is pretty much immortals in that list. Have not run it before but In theory it could work.

Chrono
Techno
27 immortals
20 warriors
Tctan
Voiddragon
SK

Even got some room for upgrades on the cryptics too.

I also made a list with this same concept that I was hoping to get some critiques on in the army list forum. I feel like it answers the above guy's question too, but if anyone else has some thoughts on it that'd be cool. you can find it here https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/796975.page

If you are able to screen out effectively enough, psychic bullets will have a challenge to hurt you. Not all psychic books have targeted psychic and even if they did, not every player brings them. Most fall back on just Smite if they have psychic, and smite is only on the nearest visible. As long as you maintain a screen in front of your C'tan, there is no way a smite can hurt it.

A C'tan is about getting the best value before it dies. If it can survive for even 4 turns before dying I think it should have made its points back. Because 4 turns of spamming multiple mortal wounds every turn is quite a lot, plus that last turn where you charge it into combat because you know it will die the next turn anyway. And if your opponent played conservatively in order to try and keep out of its MW spam range while you pushed it forward with the rest of your army, then he is losing ground and likely giving up the midboard objectives too. So, the value of a C'tan is more than just what it kills.

This is why I favour 2 C'tan and no heavy support. (Want to try such a list). I feel that the heavy support Necrons do have in their list is kinda swingy and not really that great anyway. And 2 C'tan spamming two MW C'tan powers each turns is a way to mitigate not relying on heavy support. Just one C'tan alone may not be enough MW spam, but two will definitely give players pause. Spamming 3 C'tans probably turns the list into a skewed list that autowin some matchups and autolose to other matchups. But 2 might be that sweet spot because its just two patrols, or 1 patrol and 1 other detachment.

Eldenfirefly wrote:
This is why I favour 2 C'tan and no heavy support. (Want to try such a list). I feel that the heavy support Necrons do have in their list is kinda swingy and not really that great anyway. And 2 C'tan spamming two MW C'tan powers each turns is a way to mitigate not relying on heavy support. Just one C'tan alone may not be enough MW spam, but two will definitely give players pause. Spamming 3 C'tans probably turns the list into a skewed list that autowin some matchups and autolose to other matchups. But 2 might be that sweet spot because its just two patrols, or 1 patrol and 1 other detachment.

I agree with this. The HS options, as for lots of armies actually, just seem a bit weak in an objective-based game. C’tan are a melee threat as well as dropping mortal wounds and that’s much more relevant, most of the time.

I don’t love the list with the silent king and two c’tan. The SK is partly strong because of all the buffs he hands out, but you need some stuff for him to buff. And you still need some action monkeys and stuff too. The list might work if dropped things like the spyder and scarabs to have a couple of big warrior blocks and chronomancers. Really, it’s just a big stretch to fit the three big guys in there.

My void dragon and nightbringer have arrived. I’m going to have to do quite a bit of green stuff work to nightbringer to make him look like an equivalent unit to the massive VD.

^
That sounds like quite the project! I'd love to see pics when its done!


In a similar vein does anyone think running the Deceiver and the Nightbringer in a list would work? I would imagine you would want lots of warriors or immortals and scarabs to screen them.

Mandragola wrote:

Eldenfirefly wrote:
This is why I favour 2 C'tan and no heavy support. (Want to try such a list). I feel that the heavy support Necrons do have in their list is kinda swingy and not really that great anyway. And 2 C'tan spamming two MW C'tan powers each turns is a way to mitigate not relying on heavy support. Just one C'tan alone may not be enough MW spam, but two will definitely give players pause. Spamming 3 C'tans probably turns the list into a skewed list that autowin some matchups and autolose to other matchups. But 2 might be that sweet spot because its just two patrols, or 1 patrol and 1 other detachment.

I agree with this. The HS options, as for lots of armies actually, just seem a bit weak in an objective-based game. C’tan are a melee threat as well as dropping mortal wounds and that’s much more relevant, most of the time.

I don’t love the list with the silent king and two c’tan. The SK is partly strong because of all the buffs he hands out, but you need some stuff for him to buff. And you still need some action monkeys and stuff too. The list might work if dropped things like the spyder and scarabs to have a couple of big warrior blocks and chronomancers. Really, it’s just a big stretch to fit the three big guys in there.

My void dragon and nightbringer have arrived. I’m going to have to do quite a bit of green stuff work to nightbringer to make him look like an equivalent unit to the massive VD.

CTan are CP heavy. You need the bonus CP he provides If you are bringing 2 ctan IMO and since all you can really afford if mass infantry at that point in your list - you might as well buff them up to make them effective.

 Xenomancers wrote:

Mandragola wrote:

Eldenfirefly wrote:
This is why I favour 2 C'tan and no heavy support. (Want to try such a list). I feel that the heavy support Necrons do have in their list is kinda swingy and not really that great anyway. And 2 C'tan spamming two MW C'tan powers each turns is a way to mitigate not relying on heavy support. Just one C'tan alone may not be enough MW spam, but two will definitely give players pause. Spamming 3 C'tans probably turns the list into a skewed list that autowin some matchups and autolose to other matchups. But 2 might be that sweet spot because its just two patrols, or 1 patrol and 1 other detachment.

I agree with this. The HS options, as for lots of armies actually, just seem a bit weak in an objective-based game. C’tan are a melee threat as well as dropping mortal wounds and that’s much more relevant, most of the time.

I don’t love the list with the silent king and two c’tan. The SK is partly strong because of all the buffs he hands out, but you need some stuff for him to buff. And you still need some action monkeys and stuff too. The list might work if dropped things like the spyder and scarabs to have a couple of big warrior blocks and chronomancers. Really, it’s just a big stretch to fit the three big guys in there.

My void dragon and nightbringer have arrived. I’m going to have to do quite a bit of green stuff work to nightbringer to make him look like an equivalent unit to the massive VD.

CTan are CP heavy. You need the bonus CP he provides If you are bringing 2 ctan IMO and since all you can really afford if mass infantry at that point in your list - you might as well buff them up to make them effective.

Agreed. I was talking about Parsalian's list (sorry, that probably wasn't clear) and that doesn't include much infantry at all. I think the SK probably combos well with something like Anrakyr and a couple of blocks of 20 Novokh warriors - or something similar.

I don't think the SK combos particularly well with C'tan. It's not awful but it seems like a bit of a waste of the amazing buffs the SK hands out. Surely you want to prioritise units that actually benefit from those buffs rather than C'tan, who don't.

The CP issue is real. My idea was to take Imotekh as my Warlord. He brings 2 CPs and his trait regenerates them on a 5+. I think his once-per-game lightning bomb combos pretty well with the mortal wound spam that C'tan chuck around as well. I'm looking at a two-patrol list with a Voltaic staff CCB leading the other one, so I can chuck malevolent arcing around as well, to really maximise the splash mortal wound pain. I'm not sure whether to go with all Sautekh or (perhaps more likely) a patrol of Sautekh and another of relentless expansionists. Actually most of my stuff is already obsec - or a C'tan that doesn't benefit - so going all-Sautekh might be the way forward. It would give a use to my 20 Flayer warriors, too.

I've no idea if this is a good approach of course. It involves a lot of randomness and the power varies a lot depending on how the enemy deploys. Sounds like fun though. And it's cool how many different ways it seems to be possible to build a Necron army.

Yeah the CP flexibility Sautekh gives you is good for the double c'tan lists. Especially if you do have a couple immortals squads in a Sautekh patrol as well; they make good use of the rapid fire at 18".

On a different note though, I've been revisiting the warrior builds recently as I still think they're our most consistent build at a competitive level. One of the main things that warriors can struggle with is mortals as they get around the reanimation protocols fairly consistently and we're seeing a rise in mortal spam (like you guys are discussing) thanks for DG, DA, and in part our silver bad boys too.

In Szarekhan you get a 5+ against mortals. Their unique relic let's core units within 9" be affected by both directives of the turns current protocol. You can then pair this with thrall of the SK to boost the aura to 12", on something like a CCB that's a massive aura. Their warlord trait also let's you use 4 protocols and select one of them over two turns. You pay 1CP to have this on another character if you're not taking the SK

The warriors aren't great in CC outside of Novokh but you can have something like fall back and shoot over 2 turns, paired with reanimators that also make use of the extra 3" aura range

Or all your warriors get the benefit of light cover, plus overwatching on 5s

The re-roll wounds is great for the chronomancers entropic lance too, you could also have some 1 man units of destroyers performing backfield actions and still shooting with ridiculous efficiency

The main thing is though, the 5+ against mortals covers one of the warriors biggest weaknesses, so I think its definitely worth trying to double down on that added durability. You take like 60 warriors, 3 chronos, ccb with res orb and the protocol shenanigans, 3 reanimators and 3 min squads of destroyers in a battalion, while for secondaries pick stuff like WWSWF and purge the vermin. The destroyers are still cheaper than min squads of immortals for performing actions and the reanimators can also perform ancient machines while also using their reanimator beams (as they're not characters) if you ever want to to take that.

You've still got plenty of pts left over at that point too for something like lychguard if you dont end up with the SK

TheNEWnew wrote:
Yeah the CP flexibility Sautekh gives you is good for the double c'tan lists. Especially if you do have a couple immortals squads in a Sautekh patrol as well; they make good use of the rapid fire at 18".

On a different note though, I've been revisiting the warrior builds recently as I still think they're our most consistent build at a competitive level. One of the main things that warriors can struggle with is mortals as they get around the reanimation protocols fairly consistently and we're seeing a rise in mortal spam (like you guys are discussing) thanks for DG, DA, and in part our silver bad boys too.

In Szarekhan you get a 5+ against mortals. Their unique relic let's core units within 9" be affected by both directives of the turns current protocol. You can then pair this with thrall of the SK to boost the aura to 12", on something like a CCB that's a massive aura. Their warlord trait also let's you use 4 protocols and select one of them over two turns. You pay 1CP to have this on another character if you're not taking the SK

The warriors aren't great in CC outside of Novokh but you can have something like fall back and shoot over 2 turns, paired with reanimators that also make use of the extra 3" aura range

Or all your warriors get the benefit of light cover, plus overwatching on 5s

The re-roll wounds is great for the chronomancers entropic lance too, you could also have some 1 man units of destroyers performing backfield actions and still shooting with ridiculous efficiency

The main thing is though, the 5+ against mortals covers one of the warriors biggest weaknesses, so I think its definitely worth trying to double down on that added durability. You take like 60 warriors, 3 chronos, ccb with res orb and the protocol shenanigans, 3 reanimators and 3 min squads of destroyers in a battalion, while for secondaries pick stuff like WWSWF and purge the vermin. The destroyers are still cheaper than min squads of immortals for performing actions and the reanimators can also perform ancient machines while also using their reanimator beams (as they're not characters) if you ever want to to take that.

You've still got plenty of pts left over at that point too for something like lychguard if you dont end up with the SK

MY szarekhan list is undefeated. Used it in multiple configurations. The core that never changes though is
SK
20 Reaper warriors
chrono with lance and veil
Techno with Relic staff
10x Telsa immortals
10x Gauss immortals

1 DDA
2x LHD

It then gives you a lot of roam to play with -
Can through in a Void dragon and some Lych
Can throw in a flyer and some tomb blades.

it does just fine ether way. So many good units in this army.

 Xenomancers wrote:
/snip

MY szarekhan list is undefeated. Used it in multiple configurations. The core that never changes though is
SK
20 Reaper warriors
chrono with lance and veil
Techno with Relic staff
10x Telsa immortals
10x Gauss immortals

1 DDA
2x LHD

It then gives you a lot of roam to play with -
Can through in a Void dragon and some Lych
Can throw in a flyer and some tomb blades.

it does just fine ether way. So many good units in this army.

That's very interesting. I'm surprised to see some of those units, especially the tesla immortals and LHDs. Could you say a bit more about what makes those units so good please? To be honest I'm not seeing it.

This is the closest I've come to a "horde" army, with the blocks of 20 warriors. I've got the first unit about 75% done I think. It's not too bad actually, with contrast paint and drybrushing.

 Xenomancers wrote:

TheNEWnew wrote:

You've still got plenty of pts left over at that point too for something like lychguard if you dont end up with the SK
MY szarekhan list is undefeated. Used it in multiple configurations. The core that never changes though is
SK
20 Reaper warriors
chrono with lance and veil
Techno with Relic staff
10x Telsa immortals
10x Gauss immortals

1 DDA
2x LHD

It then gives you a lot of roam to play with -
Can through in a Void dragon and some Lych
Can throw in a flyer and some tomb blades.

it does just fine ether way. So many good units in this army.

Don't see yet how this army is played.

SK, Warriors, and Immortals in the backfield first and then approaching the center of the board for board control and making points?
LHD and DDA give fire support.
How about counter-attack units or units approaching the front-ranks of the enemy?

 wuestenfux wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

TheNEWnew wrote:

You've still got plenty of pts left over at that point too for something like lychguard if you dont end up with the SK
MY szarekhan list is undefeated. Used it in multiple configurations. The core that never changes though is
SK
20 Reaper warriors
chrono with lance and veil
Techno with Relic staff
10x Telsa immortals
10x Gauss immortals

1 DDA
2x LHD

It then gives you a lot of roam to play with -
Can through in a Void dragon and some Lych
Can throw in a flyer and some tomb blades.

it does just fine ether way. So many good units in this army.

Don't see yet how this army is played.

SK, Warriors, and Immortals in the backfield first and then approaching the center of the board for board control and making points?
LHD and DDA give fire support.
How about counter-attack units or units approaching the front-ranks of the enemy?

Shunt 20 warriors to the front and mostly the rest army converges to them.
The heavy supports hold the back objectives.
If there are 2 central objectives the rest of the army converges more central and attempt to get 10 immortals on the other objective.

I find lych serve the counter attack/ protect the lines roll best its a toss up between them and tomb blades though because the blades have way better mobility and this list really lacks mobility.

Example.
The same core above^
9x Lychgaurd
drop to 9 gauss immortals
and a doom scythe.

Lots of firepower
Lots of staying power.

For objectives it can be tough deciding. However - You do so much damage in the first few turns. Scoring objectives becomes pretty easy.
Typically kill more
Engage
Assasinate/Necron special mission or mission primary.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mandragola wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
/snip

MY szarekhan list is undefeated. Used it in multiple configurations. The core that never changes though is
SK
20 Reaper warriors
chrono with lance and veil
Techno with Relic staff
10x Telsa immortals
10x Gauss immortals

1 DDA
2x LHD

It then gives you a lot of roam to play with -
Can through in a Void dragon and some Lych
Can throw in a flyer and some tomb blades.

it does just fine ether way. So many good units in this army.

That's very interesting. I'm surprised to see some of those units, especially the tesla immortals and LHDs. Could you say a bit more about what makes those units so good please? To be honest I'm not seeing it.

This is the closest I've come to a "horde" army, with the blocks of 20 warriors. I've got the first unit about 75% done I think. It's not too bad actually, with contrast paint and drybrushing.

Tesla immortals are great with silent king and for getting onto objectives. They put out 25 hits on average rerolling all hits plus can use the malevolent arcing strat. Which has huge potential tac mortals all over the place. Typically with a good advance you can get them onto a mid field objective on the first turn.

LHD are fantastic with the Szarekhan dynasty trait. With a reroll to wound per unit - you are essentially wounding every time. With 3d3 damage that is just utterly massive.With 4 wounds t5 - it is usually drawing premium firepower to drop them too. You can use them in a mission to perform actions if you need. The correct strategy is to kill them quickly - sometimes though - it just doesn't fit into an opponents battle plan - or they dont have the right weapons to do it. In those situations - these units becomes MVP.

I've never seen the appeal of Malevolent Arching. 1 MW to 50/% of the units in an area is just irrelevant.

 Xenomancers wrote:

Tesla immortals are great with silent king and for getting onto objectives. They put out 25 hits on average rerolling all hits plus can use the malevolent arcing strat. Which has huge potential tac mortals all over the place. Typically with a good advance you can get them onto a mid field objective on the first turn.

LHD are fantastic with the Szarekhan dynasty trait. With a reroll to wound per unit - you are essentially wounding every time. With 3d3 damage that is just utterly massive.With 4 wounds t5 - it is usually drawing premium firepower to drop them too. You can use them in a mission to perform actions if you need. The correct strategy is to kill them quickly - sometimes though - it just doesn't fit into an opponents battle plan - or they dont have the right weapons to do it. In those situations - these units becomes MVP.

Thanks for the answer. That's interesting. I can see that the LHDs are much improved by being Szarekhan, and are also pretty good action monkeys. I was a bit worried that they'd have no useful targets in some games, but I suppose they're still doing good things for you so that might not be much of a problem. I see people talking about taking things like Cryptothralls for actions but these guys don't cost all that much more, and have a really big gun. Cool, I guess. I probably don't play Szarekhan though. I'm planning to use deathmarks in a comparable role. Having the option to deep strike looks very useful.

I do like malevolent arcing so I try and get some tesla into every list. Normally that's the voltaic staff though. My issue with tesla is that it's so bad against marines, especially if they get 2+ saves somehow. I think I'd much prefer to have gauss for the ap, especially since it's cheaper.

I'm having to rethink immortals a bit because they seem pretty great. The difference between a T4 4+ save warrior and a T5 3+ save immortal is a lot, and the immortals also have much better guns. Plus the immortals have a better chance of getting cover bonuses due to smaller units.

its really just to put some heat on a big ball of units, usually characters or 2-3man squads that are bunched up.
Unless theres like 6-7 things it can potentially hit its not gonna do anything.

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
I've never seen the appeal of Malevolent Arching. 1 MW to 50/% of the units in an area is just irrelevant.

Depends on what you are facing. If it's harlequins. It is basically the best stratagem you have access to. Not the best vs primaris marines.
It works really good when you combine it with deathmarks and cstans though. Killing a character can win you the game.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mandragola wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

Tesla immortals are great with silent king and for getting onto objectives. They put out 25 hits on average rerolling all hits plus can use the malevolent arcing strat. Which has huge potential tac mortals all over the place. Typically with a good advance you can get them onto a mid field objective on the first turn.

LHD are fantastic with the Szarekhan dynasty trait. With a reroll to wound per unit - you are essentially wounding every time. With 3d3 damage that is just utterly massive.With 4 wounds t5 - it is usually drawing premium firepower to drop them too. You can use them in a mission to perform actions if you need. The correct strategy is to kill them quickly - sometimes though - it just doesn't fit into an opponents battle plan - or they dont have the right weapons to do it. In those situations - these units becomes MVP.

Thanks for the answer. That's interesting. I can see that the LHDs are much improved by being Szarekhan, and are also pretty good action monkeys. I was a bit worried that they'd have no useful targets in some games, but I suppose they're still doing good things for you so that might not be much of a problem. I see people talking about taking things like Cryptothralls for actions but these guys don't cost all that much more, and have a really big gun. Cool, I guess. I probably don't play Szarekhan though. I'm planning to use deathmarks in a comparable role. Having the option to deep strike looks very useful.

I do like malevolent arcing so I try and get some tesla into every list. Normally that's the voltaic staff though. My issue with tesla is that it's so bad against marines, especially if they get 2+ saves somehow. I think I'd much prefer to have gauss for the ap, especially since it's cheaper.

I'm having to rethink immortals a bit because they seem pretty great. The difference between a T4 4+ save warrior and a T5 3+ save immortal is a lot, and the immortals also have much better guns. Plus the immortals have a better chance of getting cover bonuses due to smaller units.

In game in practice - gauss is rarely getting 2 shots - perhaps as sautec it would be a much better choice. It is true Tesla sucks vs 2+ saves. It is fine vs 3+ saves though. Tesla will between 2-3 times more wounds depending on the situation and 3+ vs 5+ you will twice as many 5+ compared to 3+.

Crons are so blessed though. On demand ignore cover stratagem makes sure that 3+ doesn't become a 2+ so your tesla is not useless.

 Xenomancers wrote:

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
I've never seen the appeal of Malevolent Arching. 1 MW to 50/% of the units in an area is just irrelevant.

Depends on what you are facing. If it's harlequins. It is basically the best stratagem you have access to. Not the best vs primaris marines.
It works really good when you combine it with deathmarks and cstans though. Killing a character can win you the game.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mandragola wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

Tesla immortals are great with silent king and for getting onto objectives. They put out 25 hits on average rerolling all hits plus can use the malevolent arcing strat. Which has huge potential tac mortals all over the place. Typically with a good advance you can get them onto a mid field objective on the first turn.

LHD are fantastic with the Szarekhan dynasty trait. With a reroll to wound per unit - you are essentially wounding every time. With 3d3 damage that is just utterly massive.With 4 wounds t5 - it is usually drawing premium firepower to drop them too. You can use them in a mission to perform actions if you need. The correct strategy is to kill them quickly - sometimes though - it just doesn't fit into an opponents battle plan - or they dont have the right weapons to do it. In those situations - these units becomes MVP.

Thanks for the answer. That's interesting. I can see that the LHDs are much improved by being Szarekhan, and are also pretty good action monkeys. I was a bit worried that they'd have no useful targets in some games, but I suppose they're still doing good things for you so that might not be much of a problem. I see people talking about taking things like Cryptothralls for actions but these guys don't cost all that much more, and have a really big gun. Cool, I guess. I probably don't play Szarekhan though. I'm planning to use deathmarks in a comparable role. Having the option to deep strike looks very useful.

I do like malevolent arcing so I try and get some tesla into every list. Normally that's the voltaic staff though. My issue with tesla is that it's so bad against marines, especially if they get 2+ saves somehow. I think I'd much prefer to have gauss for the ap, especially since it's cheaper.

I'm having to rethink immortals a bit because they seem pretty great. The difference between a T4 4+ save warrior and a T5 3+ save immortal is a lot, and the immortals also have much better guns. Plus the immortals have a better chance of getting cover bonuses due to smaller units.

In game in practice - gauss is rarely getting 2 shots - perhaps as sautec it would be a much better choice. It is true Tesla sucks vs 2+ saves. It is fine vs 3+ saves though. Tesla will between 2-3 times more wounds depending on the situation and 3+ vs 5+ you will twice as many 5+ compared to 3+.

Crons are so blessed though. On demand ignore cover stratagem makes sure that 3+ doesn't become a 2+ so your tesla is not useless.

Yeah the T5 on immortals does make a big difference and imo a couple squads go a long way to filling their niche. People under commint to them a lot of the time which can make them seem more durable than they actually are; if they do get focused though you can expect to lose the squad, so I still think it's worth having that 20 man brick of 5++ warriors in most list for that durable core.

The other thing is Szarekhan LHDs are super efficient into MEQ and gravis. Hitting on 3s re-rolling 1s and wounding on 2s re-rolling with the 3d3 damage is as close to a guaranted kill as you'll ever get if they dont have an invun. So I wouldnt worry too much about having a lack of prime targets for them for the most part

Does anyone have actual game experience using triarch stalkers?