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Plasma Inteceptors

36 shots bs 2 mean 6 will miss if they have re-rolls then they will only miss 1 shot.

35 str 7 hits vs 20 toughness 4 warriors

11 do not wound (unless they use Lt) so that is a dead warrior squad. If you have a 5++ you will save 8, 4 warriors will live allowing 5-7 to reanimate.

In smaller games, the Interceptors come in and kills something, and most likely that is game. If they continue to use a unit like that in small games introduce them to a C'tan! In higher point games you should be able to return fire with the blob he didn't shoot. The Silent King can kill at least 3 with his shooting alone.

The ultimate answer is one of my new favorite units DEATHMARKS!

Their main purpose is to snipe apothecaries and psykers, which win games. Secondary role is to use the stratagem and attack units such as Inteceptors before they shoot you. They have bs 2 so you are hitting on 3's when they move. Teleport near the King for bs 3 re-rolls. If you can kill 1 or 2 then the alpha strike is mitigated greatly as each dead Inteceptor is six fewer shots. Mortal wounds and -2 ap makes it easier than you may think especially if you play Mephrit making it -3 Ap.

BS2? Inceptors are BS3.

Are any non-fw marine crap BS2 except characters?

 Vineheart01 wrote:
BS2? Inceptors are BS3.

I was using worse-case scenarios with a chaplain.

At Bs 3 the numbers are even better for us.

TheNEWnew wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

LiMunPai wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Doom Scythes dude. They solve all problems.

Doom Scythes are really bad against Inceptors if they use transhuman.

It is time you people catch on to the good ole Szarekhan (which is by far the best dynasty IMO). You get a free reroll to wound per unit. They wanna blow 2 CP to save a single inceptor be my guest.

I also use LHD. Typically 2 in my list for holding back field. Unlikely ill have vision on the gravis turn 1 though. Doom Scythes are great because they can get to the inceptors turn 1.

You are literally talking about units that wound gravis on 2's - automatically kill them with no save after that - and complaining about the gravis. LOL. The issue would be transhuman. Try to bait it on another unit.

What else are you running as Szarekhan? LHDs get a lot of utility out of the dynasty for sure and I really wouldn't be surprised to see people running more stuff like this if they drop points in chapter approved, but (and I dont mean to be rude or anything) 2 of them alone doesnt seem enough to justify the dynasty pick?

The 5++ to mortals is huge as well. Think about everything that benifits and the total damage output gained.

Chronomancers entropic lance
DDA
Doom Scythe
LHD
Plus throwing another wound roll into multiple additional units in shooting and melee really adds up.

It's just not as obvious as -1 AP in melee for Novak units (which is also very good) but the overall benefits of Sharekhan overweigh IMO. Silent king for example blows up on a 4+ - often this happens in a big swirling melee with multiple units from each army affected. The 5+ FNP to mortals pays huge if this happens. It absolutely won me a game vs harlequins in a tight match last week.

If you really want to maximize it and this is a pretty decent core
2 Doomscythe
1 DDA (command reroll for bad number of shots)
2 LHD

This combo of units is pretty fantastic for destroying pretty much any target you can imagine that isn't infantry.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

LiMunPai wrote:

TheNEWnew wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

LiMunPai wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Doom Scythes dude. They solve all problems.

Doom Scythes are really bad against Inceptors if they use transhuman.

It is time you people catch on to the good ole Szarekhan (which is by far the best dynasty IMO). You get a free reroll to wound per unit. They wanna blow 2 CP to save a single inceptor be my guest.

I also use LHD. Typically 2 in my list for holding back field. Unlikely ill have vision on the gravis turn 1 though. Doom Scythes are great because they can get to the inceptors turn 1.

You are literally talking about units that wound gravis on 2's - automatically kill them with no save after that - and complaining about the gravis. LOL. The issue would be transhuman. Try to bait it on another unit.

What else are you running as Szarekhan? LHDs get a lot of utility out of the dynasty for sure and I really wouldn't be surprised to see people running more stuff like this if they drop points in chapter approved, but (and I dont mean to be rude or anything) 2 of them alone doesnt seem enough to justify the dynasty pick?

Presumably you would run this in a multi-dynasty list. 3 LHD, a doom scythe, and a Plasmancer in a spearhead, perhaps. That's 480 solid points of heavy cracking.

You could do that but losing command protocols is not worth it IMO. ESP if you are using silent king who gives you 2 of the protocols you want to use plus another on demand.

Has anyone tried multiple C'tans? or at least two? How has the experience been? Thanks. I would really like to try double Transcendent C'tans in a list. But just want to know how they are before I take the plunge to buy and paint up the two models.

I havent tried yet. You can only have one ctan per detachment. So taking two already cost you at least 2CP, if you play double patrols.

2 Doomscythe
1 DDA (command reroll for bad number of shots)
2 LHD

A bit too much if you ask me.
But 2 Doomscythes and 3 LHD's are eventually in my list.

Anyone else think that Ophydian Destroyers are a missed opportunity both in terms of rules and aesthetic? If they only had the claws but were slightly cheaper at say 30ppm, I think they'd serve nicely as faster, harder hitting versions of Flayed Ones. As they are they just seem really confused

Cynista wrote:
Anyone else think that Ophydian Destroyers are a missed opportunity both in terms of rules and aesthetic? If they only had the claws but were slightly cheaper at say 30ppm, I think they'd serve nicely as faster, harder hitting versions of Flayed Ones. As they are they just seem really confused

Absolutely. If GW were dead set on giving them two different weapons I feel like some sort of shooting attack would have been more appropriate than two completely different styles of close combat attack. A shooting attack would also help make them not completely useless if they fail their charge out of Deep Strike.

If it was me I'd make the weapons either/or instead of both, so you aren't paying for options that you won't use. And potentially a reroll charges ability/strategem.

Visually I think Ophydians with 4 claw arms would look great and I might convert some one day. Only trouble is getting mechanical claw bits....

I can't see me getting Ophydians for this exact reason. They have no real identity; despite how many different configurations make them "pretty good, theyre never great.

Which is a shame, cos their models are really starting to grow on me.

you do realize they use both weapons at once right?
The claws are a free 2 additional attacks whenever "the bearer fights" - you dont opt to use them, they simply happen.
Each Ophydian is making 3/4 Hyperphase (depending on which one were talking about) attacks and 2 Claw attacks.
I'm not sure why people keep missing this about them, i never hear anyone complain about the other units that do this very thing.

Their durability is their only downfall, theyre quite squishy. Theyre amazing in minimum units that are meant to go after objective campers.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
you do realize they use both weapons at once right?
The claws are a free 2 additional attacks whenever "the bearer fights" - you dont opt to use them, they simply happen.
Each Ophydian is making 3/4 Hyperphase (depending on which one were talking about) attacks and 2 Claw attacks.
I'm not sure why people keep missing this about them, i never hear anyone complain about the other units that do this very thing.

Their durability is their only downfall, theyre quite squishy. Theyre amazing in minimum units that are meant to go after objective campers.

Nobody is missing the point. I'm saying I don't like the way their weapons are and I'm sure others agree. They are underwhelming for their points because of the split profile. Like I said above, if you could choose to have only one weapon set per model at a reduced overall cost, they'd be pretty good.

It feels like a unit that was made by a committee who managed to take a cool concept and ruin it.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
you do realize they use both weapons at once right?
The claws are a free 2 additional attacks whenever "the bearer fights" - you dont opt to use them, they simply happen.
Each Ophydian is making 3/4 Hyperphase (depending on which one were talking about) attacks and 2 Claw attacks.
I'm not sure why people keep missing this about them, i never hear anyone complain about the other units that do this very thing.

Their durability is their only downfall, theyre quite squishy. Theyre amazing in minimum units that are meant to go after objective campers.

Yes, I know they make attacks with both weapons. The problem is each weapon type is specialised towards killing a different type of unit so regardless of what they face it always feels like you're paying for something that you don't want. They're only good at dealing with objective campers if they can make it into combat out of Deep Strike, assuming they aren't screened out. If they don't make it to combat they likely just die. I don't think that's a great use of the points they cost.

 Bosskelot wrote:

LiMunPai wrote:
How are you guys handling squads of 6 Inceptors with Apo, reroll support, and deep strike screening?

Well, Lychguard with shields can at least not die in one go to five of them.

That's something I guess.

Really the issue is that Plasceptors are just an oppressive unit in general and I don't think there are many answers to them. The points increase didn't go far enough and while the above suggestions are really good, I think most armies are just in a situation where we're all kind of waiting for another points increase to hit them.

If you buff up the 5 Plasma Inceptors to hitting on 2's and rerolling 1's, they kill 10 lychguard 50% of the time. Chapter master buff on 3's gets there a little less than that. 6 Inceptors with either buff do it almost every time. The Lychguard are just as vulnerable as 5+ invuln warriors.

More than that, chipping at either lychguard or warriors before firing the overcharged inceptor salvo is highly effective at denying RP to the majority of the unit. I think any list we field with big bricks of RP infantry in them should have a plan for dealing with buffed plasma inceptors.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slipspace wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
you do realize they use both weapons at once right?
The claws are a free 2 additional attacks whenever "the bearer fights" - you dont opt to use them, they simply happen.
Each Ophydian is making 3/4 Hyperphase (depending on which one were talking about) attacks and 2 Claw attacks.
I'm not sure why people keep missing this about them, i never hear anyone complain about the other units that do this very thing.

Their durability is their only downfall, theyre quite squishy. Theyre amazing in minimum units that are meant to go after objective campers.

Yes, I know they make attacks with both weapons. The problem is each weapon type is specialised towards killing a different type of unit so regardless of what they face it always feels like you're paying for something that you don't want. They're only good at dealing with objective campers if they can make it into combat out of Deep Strike, assuming they aren't screened out. If they don't make it to combat they likely just die. I don't think that's a great use of the points they cost.

I can't help but agree here. In Novokh, where they have the highest probability of making their deep strike charge, they still fail 1/3 of the time after using a CP reroll and usually die immediately after. They need another +1 to charge rolls from somewhere to get some play.

Yeah ophydians could definitely do with a bit of a rework.
Keep the mixed weapon profiles and 35ppm, but get rid of all this tunnelling horror bs and give them 12" move with advance and charge. Make them into a real glass cannon, not some confused flayed one that missed the memo on wearing skin. No reason they couldn't be T5 either like every other destroyer but that's by the by.

So make them even more into psuedo Wraiths...? I'd do the complete opposite personally. Drop the mixed weapons entirely, have either threshers or claws as the options and lean into a deep striking light infantry killing role. Thematically I'd even make them Necrons who have both the Flayer and Destroyer virus

Problem is because of the model sculpts, GW have married themselves to these stupid rules forever.

Hmm, is it just me or none of the heavy support choices we have for anti tank look that good? They all have some flaws, like lessor shooting when they move, or fragile (heavy destroyers and Doom scythes), or flat out not great as anti tank (barges).

There’s no use wishing for dropped weapon profiles because we already have the models and they’re not getting redone anytime soon.

It feels like a unit that was made by a committee who managed to take a cool concept and ruin it.

Why do I think that the committee for SM rules is very different from that for the Necrons.

I'm looking at starting up a necron force myself. I've got quite a lot of them, from 3x the necron half of Indomitus, plus the old Forgebane set.

Looking at the list I have some observations:

- The guys in Indomitus tend to not be able to access relic weapons because they start out with the wrong stuff. No blood scythe or voltaic staff, for example. But this might be fine as I need someone to carry the VoD anyway, and their equipment is sort of ok already.

- HQ slots are at a real premium. If I play a battalion I'd generally expect to use them all. The first seems to go by default to a CCB with the voltaic staff and -1D trait and the second to a pair of crypteks, at least one of which is a Chronomancer.

- The third HQ is where you start to have more options. One of the destroyer Lords might be good. A second noble of some sort (maybe even a second CCB) could also work. Maybe a Psychomancer would be handy for obsec schenanigans.

- For troops I think I want at least 2x20 warriors and more likely 3x20. I built the first ones I had split between flayers and reapers but now I feel like I'd nearly always be better off with reapers.

- There are two main options I'm considering for the rest of my list: shooty or melee. Melee means units of wraiths and skorpekhs. Shooty means doomstalkers (with technomancer), tomb blades and so on. A C'tan would be an option for either type and wraiths are always great.

Does it sound like I have roughly the right idea?

Mandragola wrote:

- The third HQ is where you start to have more options. One of the destroyer Lords might be good. A second noble of some sort (maybe even a second CCB) could also work. Maybe a Psychomancer would be handy for obsec schenanigans.

The Destroyer lords are ok, they aren't really great. I think there was a huge missed opportunity in the codex to make the destroyer synergies better. As is they don't really buff much and aren't spectacular in combat so.. They are serviceable if you like the model(not the most competitive). Psychomancer is awkward because of the timing that he turns off obsec(comes after you score primary) so he's more difficult to use than you'd think(can be used to maybe deny your opponent primary but not guarantee yourself primary).
Don't write off the Royal Warden, he's been an all star in most games I've played. Being able to fallback, shoot and charge with a 20 block of warriors is very powerful.

- For troops I think I want at least 2x20 warriors and more likely 3x20. I built the first ones I had split between flayers and reapers but now I feel like I'd nearly always be better off with reapers.

Probably want all reapers, they are significantly better than flayers in almost every regard.

Mandragola wrote:
I'm looking at starting up a necron force myself. I've got quite a lot of them, from 3x the necron half of Indomitus, plus the old Forgebane set.

Looking at the list I have some observations:

- The guys in Indomitus tend to not be able to access relic weapons because they start out with the wrong stuff. No blood scythe or voltaic staff, for example. But this might be fine as I need someone to carry the VoD anyway, and their equipment is sort of ok already.

- HQ slots are at a real premium. If I play a battalion I'd generally expect to use them all. The first seems to go by default to a CCB with the voltaic staff and -1D trait and the second to a pair of crypteks, at least one of which is a Chronomancer.

- The third HQ is where you start to have more options. One of the destroyer Lords might be good. A second noble of some sort (maybe even a second CCB) could also work. Maybe a Psychomancer would be handy for obsec schenanigans.

- For troops I think I want at least 2x20 warriors and more likely 3x20. I built the first ones I had split between flayers and reapers but now I feel like I'd nearly always be better off with reapers.

- There are two main options I'm considering for the rest of my list: shooty or melee. Melee means units of wraiths and skorpekhs. Shooty means doomstalkers (with technomancer), tomb blades and so on. A C'tan would be an option for either type and wraiths are always great.

Does it sound like I have roughly the right idea?

It's always nice to start a new project.

I'd consider a well-rounded force that can battle the enemy at all threat ranges.
In this thread you will find a lot of information about tactics and army building.

I'd start - as you said - with some Warrior units, say 2x20 or even 3x20.
They could be the backbone of your army. The enemy will target them but they are not easy to shift.

Then you need some cc units either for stepping forward approaching the enemy like Wraiths or counter-attack units like Skorpekhs.

As a warlord, you could take The Silent King or an Overload on CCB. Lumbering HQs have more downsides. *Mancers are there to bolster your army well.

HS is an issue. See the discussion here.

Cheers for the replies.

It's annoying about the warriors I've built with flayers. When Indomitus came out the flayer seemed like the better option, but the codex has put the reaper way ahead. Oh well.

The Psychomancer probably doesn't help all that much with primaries, other than by sometimes denying them to the enemy. But I think it could be good for achieving secondaries like domination. I think I'll generally take the all-obsec trait so things like wraiths and even scarabs will be able to steal objectives from time to time. So essentially it's the timing is unfortunate for scoring primary, but useful for being able to do it after you've moved, shot and so on, when you can see the state of the board and intervene as needed.

I also like his upgrade that lets you do D3 mortal wounds with completely free targeting. This, combined with some splash wounds from C'tan and malevolent arcing could make life pretty uncomfortable for enemy characters. There's starting to be a bit of a trend towards big units of things like deathwing knights with a lot of characters in support, so the abilities that do MWs to all units within X" of a target unit start to look increasingly fun.

Don't worry about the flayers. When the rules inevitably shift in the months and years ahead, you'll have them ready to go

To be fair, if you're running 3x20, 20 flayers to hang back, even possibly 2x10, wouldnt be a bad thing.

They still have merit even if theyre not *as* good

yeah its not like flayers are dead weight, they just dont do as much damage.
But if the battlefield is cluttered they can be useful, since reapers will often not be able to shoot at all.

I think the only time I'd ever run gauss flayers now is if I take the custom dynasty for full rapid fire if you stand still. It is not exactly a fun way to play but it could work.

As I was putting my list together, I ended up putting together one 20-robit squad of Flayers, which will advance with the Immortals and CCB. My intention is to put another 20-robit with Reapers and put them in a Night Scythe.

I'm picking up Nightbringer but I'm a bit worried about him lasting beyond the second turn; is the best bet just to tuck your C'tans out of LoS? Hard to see another way to keep them safe. It's 10 PM. Do you know where your Star Gods are?

Well, suppose he's out of LoS Turn 1, he'd be safe from smites, and LoS-ignoring shooting only gets 3 wounds off. Likely not loosing 3 wounds in the fight phase that turn. Turn 2, living metal gets him back to seven wounds. If your opponent can spam smites then he could loose 3 in the Psychic Phase - but it seems other than specialty lists people aren't spamming Psykers this edition. So three more wounds in the shooting phase, between 4 and 1 wounds remaining.

I suppose that gives you one more turn to get him into combat. Please let me know if I'm missing anything. I've only got to play one game of 9th ed so far, and the past 10 years I've been playing Chaos Marines and tend to overestimate a unit's durability. Cheers.

 Don Qui Hotep wrote:
As I was putting my list together, I ended up putting together one 20-robit squad of Flayers, which will advance with the Immortals and CCB. My intention is to put another 20-robit with Reapers and put them in a Night Scythe.

I'm picking up Nightbringer but I'm a bit worried about him lasting beyond the second turn; is the best bet just to tuck your C'tans out of LoS? Hard to see another way to keep them safe. It's 10 PM. Do you know where your Star Gods are?

Well, suppose he's out of LoS Turn 1, he'd be safe from smites, and LoS-ignoring shooting only gets 3 wounds off. Likely not loosing 3 wounds in the fight phase that turn. Turn 2, living metal gets him back to seven wounds. If your opponent can spam smites then he could loose 3 in the Psychic Phase - but it seems other than specialty lists people aren't spamming Psykers this edition. So three more wounds in the shooting phase, between 4 and 1 wounds remaining.

I suppose that gives you one more turn to get him into combat. Please let me know if I'm missing anything. I've only got to play one game of 9th ed so far, and the past 10 years I've been playing Chaos Marines and tend to overestimate a unit's durability. Cheers.

Best thing you can do is threat saturation - I put warriors and lots of other threats on the table like doom scythes and LHD - typically void dragon gets ignored. Also - I would advise void dragon or Tctan over the night bringer. Night bringer is a beast but too expensive. You want the longer range ctan spells - they have way more impact.