Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Kroothawk wrote:Don't make yourself ridiculous calling me a blind GW fanboy.

Sry, you are acting exatc like that... your check list included everything we see on regular sci-fi trooper. The fact somewhere after it you start to condractict yourself (showing how GW dont created the whole "elysian concept") just worsen it.

But just for curiosity, where you got those russian miniatures? I can see a great opportunity for true scale marines with those bodies, depending on the price

Duncan_Idaho wrote:You forgot one important thing about languages: Languages are constantly evolving and what might have been wrong yesterday may be right now and vica versa.

Yeah...I remember trying that excuse in high school English. Didn't work then either.

frozenwastes wrote:I'm willing to bet that if the stuff was identified by a chemist from the Society of Plastics Industry would go "This is a petroleum distillate based resin plastic. Specifically, a plastic of Resin Idenficiation Code 3V," as I believe it's a PVC based polymer.

'Plastic-resin' is not a resin. Mantic have said that it is not a resin. If it is indeed PVC – and I would be interested to hear of official confirmation – then five minutes with Wikipedia will confirm that it is not a resin.

scarletsquig wrote:As for the comment that calling them "plastic resin" is an example of the horrible evil MantiCorp dishing out evil evil lies to deliberately mislead their customers... if you truly believe that, then can we at least agree that:

Aw, man. You were the only one to actually argue against my claim calling their product 'resin plastic' was doing Mantic more harm than good and you had to ruin it by throwing in such a clumsy strawman?

BrookM wrote:Corporation pre-order deals are now up, no vehicles included with these, just men with energy swords, heat guns and drop packs.

I can't help but feel disappointed. They're damn close to the concept art, true, but there's the heroic-scale distortion, the slight stiffness to the poses and the rifles are two-dimensional with crooked lines. Plus the tripod on the big gun is backwards.

Duncan_Idaho wrote:I do have a huge Elysian army and the Elysians look still quite different. Elysians generally are lighter armored and weapons are all carry-aways.

Do you mean 'bullpups'? Hmm, do the Corporation rifles even have a removable power cell?

__________

I don't think the Corporation are copies of the Elysians per se, but they were certainly a major design influence.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

The Dwarf Wolf wrote:Sry, you are acting exatc like that... your check list included everything we see on regular sci-fi trooper.

I thought it was clear Kroothawk was referring to the style of those components, not their presence. Why is everyone posting obviously unrelated 'counter-examples'?

School-english is no match for real English as many german folks have too learn the hard way when going to UK or USA .

One of my teachers way back in school commented that I am incapable of good English. Turned out that he was absolutly wrong and that he was the one that had problems with real-life English. I now make quite a good living working as translator. And I actually grew up in some US Army Barracks from early age on. Also, some folks become teachers that really shouldn`t.... (e.g. mixing up Turkey with a turkey all the time...).

So... don´t relly too much on what school teaches you...

@carry-aways
Even their heavier weapons are designed to be extremly lightweight and foldable to be carried away easily.

But these and also the Elysians look too much like unrealistic standard SciFi troopers from China and Russia for my taste, a bit disappointing given that the concept is by McVey. But the officer is okay.

As much as I like you Kroothawk, here you are absolutly wrong.

They are rather close to real special-ops/parachute gear. And already during the Yugoslavian War (which i experienced first hand working for the Red Cross) there were guys having similar gear. Todays gear is even closer to this. There are some extras that make them look cooler, but all-in-all they are quite close.

Construct wrote:

frozenwastes wrote:I'm willing to bet that if the stuff was identified by a chemist from the Society of Plastics Industry would go "This is a petroleum distillate based resin plastic. Specifically, a plastic of Resin Idenficiation Code 3V," as I believe it's a PVC based polymer.

'Plastic-resin' is not a resin. Mantic have said that it is not a resin. If it is indeed PVC – and I would be interested to hear of official confirmation – then five minutes with Wikipedia will confirm that it is not a resin.

You need to revisit your studies of plastic science. What hobbyists call resins and what chemists call resins are two different things. If you tested mantic's pvc based plastics, you'd find they conform to the Society of Plastics Resin Identification Code 3V.

You need to abandon the use of hobby terms for resin/plastic/hard plastic etc and see that hobbyists have been misusing terms for decades. Resin is the liquid form that reacts to form a polymer. To call hobby urethane based plastic casts "resin" has been wrong for decades. The liquid that went into it was a resin, the final piece is a urethane based polymer. Similarly, PVC Resin is a liquid that goes into the process of making PVC plastic, but the final piece is no longer the liquid resin, but PVC polymer (PRI Code 3V).

All Mantic has done in this case is try to explain things to the people who have inherited using the terms wrong for decades. Their non-styrene based plastics are indeed plastics, specifically a PVC polymer that was made using a liquid PVC resin. Likely, the resin was mixed in prior to delivery to the casters at which stage it was likely used as a thermoplastic and heated and poured/injected into the moulds.

Calling it "plastic resin" is just a term they can use to help people who don't know what the words mean to understand it is different than the styrene based plastics their other plastic products are made of. It is indeed a resin based polymer with a RIC, so they're not in any way actually inaccurate except that they are making the same error as everyone else-- referring to a polymer as a resin after the resin reaction has already occurred.

So anyone getting their panties in a not over Mantic's use of "plastic resin" should just relax and realize that every hobby company since the 60s that has called their produce "resin" has been wrong too. Resin is a component in the forming of a polymer, not the final polymer.

I don't care what my army men are made of, as long as they look good and they're fun to paint.

That's a post worth exalting.

My point is that people are actually giving Mantic grief over a term when hobbyists have been using the wrong terms for decades. There's simply no leg to stand on.

Necros wrote:I don't care what my army men are made of, as long as they look good and they're fun to paint.

Here here, although Frozenwastes' post was quite insightful!

I dont' care much about grammar (despite writing for a living) and I don't care what exactly they are made of.

My only problem is figuring out how to justify buying some of these!

I plan to get some for my IG army, prolly for counts-as stormtroopers.

Necros wrote:I plan to get some for my IG army, prolly for counts-as stormtroopers.

If I didn't have 60+ of the sandtrooper style guys, I'd do that too...

I might just pick up a small box at a con to paint up.

If I were going to plan on buying that IG army I've always wanted, I think I'd save up for real Elysians. I'm not trying to detract from what Mantic is doing: unlike (IMO) their squats and orks, these are very nice looking so far -- relative to the price.

Exactly, I know its a cliche but dropping 4-500 on FW Elysians isn't something I can do, despite wanting to as its money that would otherwise go towards a new car!

I'm knee-deep in on-going projects. I tell myself that if I'm serious about a new army i will save my money while painting what I have. By the time I finished what's on my plate, if I cut back on other fluff spending, I have no doubt that I could easily afford a decent FW army.

I fully plan on making my next serious army project a FW heavy purchase, either using the models entirely or buying tons of upgrades.

Time, not money, is the biggest obstacle for me putting armies on the table.

Kroothawk wrote:

Buzzsaw wrote:With due respect, that's a very odd checklist, since there are differences, and the both of them look very similar to real tactical gear. If they look alike, it's because they both ape reality.
As demonstrated below, each of the elements you list is a component found in current armor solutions;

Actually, the chest armour of both is not mimicking anything, because they only protect the chest (or in the Mantic case, also the belly from the front only!). Modern body armour covers the full torso front and back for practical reasons (and no ellbow and kneecap armour), even if it looks less cool. The helmet with the big extermal visor also doesn't mimick anything in modern armies.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but you're just wrong. Or, perhaps better, your rebuttal is a non-sequitur; you say "The helmet with the big extermal visor also doesn't mimick anything in modern armies", which would be useful if I had mentioned military, rather then tactical gear. Tactical gear also includes police gear... you can tell the police personnel in the prior post by the inconspicuous word "police" written on the uniforms.

Since the objection seems persnickety, I suppose it's only fair to point out that, yeah, some tactical law enforcement gear does, in fact, feature a "big extermal[sic] visor";


Recognizing that, the complaint of "no ellbow and kneecap armour" is seen as baseless when one remembers that tactical law enforcement units sometimes use elbow (and shoulder) pads,

As well as knee pads,


I have no idea what "the chest armour of both is not mimicking anything, because they only protect the chest" is even a reference to, as the only picture I have seen of one of these figures that shows any of the back clearly shows that the back is protected. It's incredibly reminiscent of existing bullet-proof vests...

Kroothawk wrote:So kidney shots (or gut shots from the side or back) are okay?
I would prefer modern body armour.

You're conflating some modern body armor with all modern body armor.

If you want to invest in the notion that these figures are bad, it's your opinoin, go right ahead. But to claim "these and also the Elysians look too much like unrealistic standard SciFi troopers", when, as I have shown, they bear striking similarities to currently existing gear (thus, by definition, being real and therefore incapable of passing the "unrealistic" test) is just... unsupportable.

My main issue is that I'm moving farther and farther away from high model count games. I love it when my models feel useful valuable on the table top and don't really want to play a game where there are 200+ miniatures on the table that all hardly matter except as part of larger units. It's a personal preference thing.

I'm VERY excited about Pandora (Dwarf King's Hold in SPAAACE!) because I like the idea of small squads of Corporation marines trying to clear out vermin and monsters from a asteroid mining facility.

frozenwastes wrote:My main issue is that I'm moving farther and farther away from high model count games. I love it when my models feel useful valuable on the table top and don't really want to play a game where there are 200+ miniatures on the table that all hardly matter except as part of larger units. It's a personal preference thing.

I'm VERY excited about Pandora (Dwarf King's Hold in SPAAACE!) because I like the idea of small squads of Corporation marines trying to clear out vermin and monsters from a asteroid mining facility.

SO, its Space Hulk with IG then...

Ill also agree about moving toward smaller games. While big games can be fun...I just dont have the time, energy, and attention span to build and paint dozens of models for a large army.

Mad4Minis wrote: SO, its Space Hulk with IG then...

No, its Alien 2...

The Dwarf Wolf wrote:

Mad4Minis wrote: SO, its Space Hulk with IG then...

No, its Alien 2...

Ahem. Aliens

Does anyone have a size comparison with these Mantic space humans and IG models and again with Pig Iron Heads.

If Pig Iron parts don't fit well on these then Mantic have done themselves a great disservice.

George Spiggott wrote:Does anyone have a size comparison with these Mantic space humans and IG models and again with Pig Iron Heads.

If Pig Iron parts don't fit well on these then Mantic have done themselves a great disservice.

No because nobody has them yet. Those are just pics from Mantic and there's nothing visible for sale yet.

George Spiggott wrote:If Pig Iron parts don't fit well on these then Mantic have done themselves a great disservice.

No need, they copy Pig Iron heads as well (helmet A and G)

Try harder.

Polonius wrote:I fully plan on making my next serious army project a FW heavy purchase, either using the models entirely or buying tons of upgrades.

Time, not money, is the biggest obstacle for me putting armies on the table.

On the other hand, time = money.

You could potentially use the price differential between £1 for mantic and £3.70 FW to pay someone to at least assemble, clean and undercoat the models for you, leaving you with the fun painting to finish off.

I'm fairly certain that most commission painters would not mind £2/model for the prep work alone.

That is a really cool looking fig. Just extend the cigar so it looks like a cigar and not a pacifier and swap his sword and he will look ace. The othere infantry looks cool enough for me to include a couple squads in my IG army

@Kroothawk : Neither of those helmets appears in the prototype drawing, especially the second one, which doesn't even come close except in that its a helmet for a human.

Also @ Kroothawk: Yep they're nothing like. Pig Iron and the other 'spare head companies' have a far larger range than can be covered by Mantic.

Mark VI wrote:Hey, Johnny Helmet E!

Helmet E wrote:Oh hi, Mark Mark VI.

Shock and horror, Pig Iron was also influenced by someone else? It can´t be because Kroothawk said it isn´t so. He is by far a GW-Fanboy as anyone able to read his posts can discern. No lack of criticism for GW there as far as I can tell. But he likes to miss the mark of modesty with a passion that can indeed be disturbing.

I want to see the rest of the models. I like them so far but want to see more action poses. Elysians and Corporation are close as others have correctly pointed out that they share the same design philosophies. I am more then fine with that.

Dont feed the kroot?