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At 2k I run an allied BA batallion and a Guard batallion with my Custodes (still have like 1400 points of Custodes) and yeah the CP batteries are glorious (though if we’re being honest, those BA are super CP hungry)

Salvos are nice on Shield Captain Jetbikes.

Any tips against tyranids at 1.000 points?

I will probably bring a sc captain and 9 bikes, but i fear the hive tyrant and exocrines

"So the Custodes Terminators are just as bad as everyone else's? Even to just bring in some flexibility with deepstriking units?"

They are great. Give them a try and see for yourself.


"@Primark Are mortars really that necessary with all of them bolters flying about? "

You are pretty much just using them for quasi board control and CP manipulation. Every game I see with IG as ally they are all dead by T3-T4... a cagey opponent will not spend much CP until those CP buffing HQ are nuked.

Please quit defending the Terminators Primark. The math has been done and there's no point to the unit entry existing.

 Primark G wrote:
a cagey opponent will not spend much CP until those CP buffing HQ are nuked.

Thats actually a good thing I reckon. Many hard hitting armies dump the majority of their CP in turns 1 and 2, so if you delay that at all you're making them play your game instead of theirs.

Hey SF123 I have a lot of success with them - if you can't handle that it is your problem.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Spartacus wrote:

 Primark G wrote:
a cagey opponent will not spend much CP until those CP buffing HQ are nuked.

Thats actually a good thing I reckon. Many hard hitting armies dump the majority of their CP in turns 1 and 2, so if you delay that at all you're making them play your game instead of theirs.

Some armies like daemons need to drop a lot of CP right at the beginning... even with the new FAQ they will quickly shred all the guard units.

jotace wrote:
Any tips against tyranids at 1.000 points?

I will probably bring a sc captain and 9 bikes, but i fear the hive tyrant and exocrines

Hit it with a pointy stick.
Seriously. Anything that doesn't die to 120 bolter shots will die to being charged by bikes.

 Primark G wrote:
Hey SF123 I have a lot of success with them - if you can't handle that it is your problem.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Spartacus wrote:

 Primark G wrote:
a cagey opponent will not spend much CP until those CP buffing HQ are nuked.

Thats actually a good thing I reckon. Many hard hitting armies dump the majority of their CP in turns 1 and 2, so if you delay that at all you're making them play your game instead of theirs.

Some armies like daemons need to drop a lot of CP right at the beginning... even with the new FAQ they will quickly shred all the guard units.

Most people in the thread have problems actually, not just me.

 mrhappyface wrote:


So couple of questions from the noob:
1. What do you think of the lists?
2. Are IG basically mandatory as CP batteries for Custodes? (Not complaining, gives me an excuse to field my renegade guard)
3. Spears or SS? Everyone keeps saying Spears are better but I'd think having a 3++ for an objective holding unit would be pretty good.
4. Hurricane bolters or Salvo? Salvo seemed like the bad choice because it's basically an expensive melta with an anti-air option but the lack of any high strength, high AP, high damage weapons in this army makes it more appealing than it would be in say; C:CSM.
5. Are Misericordia an auto-include or just something extra if you have the points?
6. Any other advice or tips for this army?

Cheers.

1. I personally like a Battalion of Custodes to have the Custodian Guard sit on objectives while my other units do the heavy lifting but since you have AM to do that job, I say those lists are fine.
2. Some people like to have allies for Custodes for their ranged anti-armor and more CP and while I get the reason why, I wouldn't say it's mandatory to find success with them. I play a pure Custodes army with a little bit of everything they have to offer and I've had victories and great games against different armies (DA, DG, post codex Necrons, etc.). Just need to play smartly, go all in on threat saturation, and play to the army's strengths.
3. At least 1 or 2 SB+SS in each Custodian Guard squad and the rest Spears depending on squad size, I run 1 SB+SS and 2 Spears in each of my Guard squads.
4. Hurricane bolters generally. If you really want some ranged anti-armor, I'd put them on the Shield Captains since even if you move with them, you still hit on 3's rerolling 1's. I've been experimenting with a Dawneagle SC with a Salvo Launcher, Auric Aquilis, Emperor's Companion WL trait, and giving him Victor of the Blood Games (to reroll any 2's to hit and make him pretty damn survivable to make up for not taking the 5+++ WL trait) to make him the ultimate solo tank hunter that rerolls damn near everything he does. Pretty solid success so far!
5. The latter, they're purely there to fill in leftover points. Nice to have, but just remember to swing with them!
6. Take advantage of our great stratagems! With 8 CP from a Battalion, we have room to play around with our strats more than before. Taking a second relic to give another SC a 3++ is never a bad choice. Tanglefoot Grenades and Concussion Grenades have proven to be very useful in the games I've played. Victor of the Blood Games is also excellent and damn near pays for itself. From Golden Light They Come is fun and can contribute to the threat saturation to make picking targets for the opponent difficult, especially when you deep strike in a Contemptor Achillus with Allarus and Allarus Vexilus Praetor with the Vexilla Magnifica and you have jetbikes about to run down your opponent's gunline at the same time. Deploy your jetbikes out of LOS in case you don't go first so they're protected from as much shooting as possible since they're obvious targets to focus down on first. With their quick movement and Fly, they'll have little trouble getting to where they need to be.

 mrhappyface wrote:
Thanks for the replies!

1. So the Custodes Terminators are just as bad as everyone else's? Even to just bring in some flexibility with deepstriking units?
@Primark Are mortars really that necessary with all of them bolters flying about?

3. I didn't know you could mix the unit loadouts.

4. Good point, bolters all the way it is!

6. @JNA Are they really that bad? I thought the aura would be quite good on 10 man squads. Would a Company Commander be better than a Commissar?
@Audustum Seems expensive at 2CP a pop...

1. Basically, yes. The Terminators are better than most armies' Terminators, but they're the same cost as bikes and overall extremely inferior by comparison. Primark has some success with them, but we're not sure how competitive his meta is and he fights mostly CQC armies so he drops them right around his deployment zone (basically, a fairly limited circumstance of use).

3. Yep! And thank goodness too.

6. So it is. I'm gonna be totally blunt about that. The way you evaluate the cost is this: Command Re-Roll is 1CP per use. If that character rolls 2 dice per match then you made your investment back. If the character rolls more than 2 you just profited in CP. So put it on people you expect to be making armor/invulnerable/to-hit/to-wound rolls.

 Primark G wrote:

You are pretty much just using them for quasi board control and CP manipulation. Every game I see with IG as ally they are all dead by T3-T4... a cagey opponent will not spend much CP until those CP buffing HQ are nuked.

I think this man lives in some sort of parallel universe. So if you are not living in the same one, please consider taking his advice with a pound of salt.

From my experience:
1. IG allies in Custodes army live forever. Nobody wants to spare firepower on that bunch of puny, cheap, sitting-in-the-cover-or-behind-a-LOS-block guys when they have a bunch of Custodes ready to wreck their faces.
2. If anyone is stupid enough to not use necessary stratagems just do deny the opponent a possibility (!) of getting 1 CP (at 5+, don't forget!) per stratagem (not per CP spent) then he is his worst enemy himself. I have yet to see the man.

And yes, Allaruses are almost useless. I have them because I like them but will never ever take them to the competitive event.

Victor of the blood games is not as expensive if you have an allied guard warlord with grand strategist. You pay the CP when you deploy the unit so you can roll to see if you get the CP back provided you have deployed your guard warlord first.

Audustum wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:


6. @JNA Are they really that bad? I thought the aura would be quite good on 10 man squads. Would a Company Commander be better than a Commissar?
@Audustum Seems expensive at 2CP a pop...

1. Basically, yes. The Terminators are better than most armies' Terminators, but they're the same cost as bikes and overall extremely inferior by comparison. Primark has some success with them, but we're not sure how competitive his meta is and he fights mostly CQC armies so he drops them right around his deployment zone (basically, a fairly limited circumstance of use).

Primark claims he has success with them, but then again he claims a lot of things without any reasoning or math.

I have dropped my allarus to a unit of 3, purely to drop in as the rest of my army hits enemy lines so they can pop concussion grenades on 3 units. Mostly as a hard counter to tau greater good bunkers. There is literally no reason to take any more than that, because they are expensive, bikes are better, and with beta theyre not hitting early enough to make a difference.

Victor of the Blood Games is situational but if wisely chosen can pay dividends.

14 CP, 1999pts

Custodes

1 Bike Captain, Salvo
3x3 Bikes

Blood Angels

Slambo
Mephiston
3x 5 Scouts
2x3 Scout Bikes
2x 5 Devastators, 2 Heavy Bolters 1 Missile, cherub

Imperial Guard

2x Company Commander
3x 9 Infantry 1 Mortar


----

Above is my Post-FAQ list. Building all of the models up now. Quite excited to test it out. Just got all the custom bases in, going to be testing it over the following weekends, then taking it to an RTT in the beginning of June. Feeling quite good, and the Devs will allow me to counter other Custodes bikes quite easily.

Alright, so I've rejigged the 2k list;

I've now got Wardens and a Praetor in a Land Raider rather than the Terminators, dropped the salvos for bolters and grabbed some Lascannons on the Infantry Squads. A bit more punch in exchange for utility.

Consider replacing the Land Raider with the DS Stratagem. 3 CP for two units, but saves you 400 points.

 JNAProductions wrote:
Consider replacing the Land Raider with the DS Stratagem. 3 CP for two units, but saves you 400 points.

Couple of questions on that:
1. Is deep striking so good? The charging isn't so reliable after deepstrike and without a transport there's nothing to soak up overwatch.
2. If I were to replace the Landraider, what with?

It's better, IMO, than a Land Raider. Although, [s] much as I hate to say it [/sarcasm], Allarus actually might do you okay here. I didn't think you'd pop up a Land Raider, and while the Allarus are a touch more expensive, it saves you 2 CP (enough for Victor of the Blood Games on someone) if you only need to Deep Strike one unit, rather than two.

As for what to replace it with... Hard to go wrong with a few extra bikes. Maybe a Dreadnought? Or, toss on a few min Squads of Custodian Guard and make it a Battalion? Would probably require some drops elsewhere, though.

 Cephalobeard wrote:

14 CP, 1999pts

Custodes

1 Bike Captain, Salvo
3x3 Bikes

Blood Angels

Slambo
Mephiston
3x 5 Scouts
2x3 Scout Bikes
2x 5 Devastators, 2 Heavy Bolters 1 Missile, cherub

Imperial Guard

2x Company Commander
3x 9 Infantry 1 Mortar


----

Above is my Post-FAQ list. Building all of the models up now. Quite excited to test it out. Just got all the custom bases in, going to be testing it over the following weekends, then taking it to an RTT in the beginning of June. Feeling quite good, and the Devs will allow me to counter other Custodes bikes quite easily.

Looks tight. Lots of CPs is always a good thing.

 Primark G wrote:
Victor of the Blood Games is situational but if wisely chosen can pay dividends.

How in the cornbread hell are free rerolls situational?

I hope you can figure that out you.

 Primark G wrote:
I hope you can figure that out you.

No. You make a statement. You need to expand on it.

You are my straight man today. You might have more success if you ever learn how to politely request.

Meatgrinder wrote:

Audustum wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:


6. @JNA Are they really that bad? I thought the aura would be quite good on 10 man squads. Would a Company Commander be better than a Commissar?
@Audustum Seems expensive at 2CP a pop...

1. Basically, yes. The Terminators are better than most armies' Terminators, but they're the same cost as bikes and overall extremely inferior by comparison. Primark has some success with them, but we're not sure how competitive his meta is and he fights mostly CQC armies so he drops them right around his deployment zone (basically, a fairly limited circumstance of use).

Primark claims he has success with them, but then again he claims a lot of things without any reasoning or math.

I have dropped my allarus to a unit of 3, purely to drop in as the rest of my army hits enemy lines so they can pop concussion grenades on 3 units. Mostly as a hard counter to tau greater good bunkers. There is literally no reason to take any more than that, because they are expensive, bikes are better, and with beta theyre not hitting early enough to make a difference.

if concussion nades worked on more than just infantry, there'd definitely be a place for them I think, but it's just too unlikely that you'll be able to use them on the units you want to turn overwatch off for as they won't be infantry. It's a pity.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Primark G wrote:
I hope you can figure that out you.

No. You make a statement. You need to expand on it.

asking primark to back his statement up with facts is like asking a brick wall to move. It's futile

Should every player who uses Custodes always spend the CP for VofBG every game?

"if concussion nades worked on more than just infantry, there'd definitely be a place for them I think, but it's just too unlikely that you'll be able to use them on the units you want to turn overwatch off for as they won't be infantry. It's a pity."

I disagree as more than not you'll be charging infantry - it is not always the case for sure though.

stratigo wrote:

Meatgrinder wrote:

Audustum wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:


6. @JNA Are they really that bad? I thought the aura would be quite good on 10 man squads. Would a Company Commander be better than a Commissar?
@Audustum Seems expensive at 2CP a pop...

1. Basically, yes. The Terminators are better than most armies' Terminators, but they're the same cost as bikes and overall extremely inferior by comparison. Primark has some success with them, but we're not sure how competitive his meta is and he fights mostly CQC armies so he drops them right around his deployment zone (basically, a fairly limited circumstance of use).

Primark claims he has success with them, but then again he claims a lot of things without any reasoning or math.

I have dropped my allarus to a unit of 3, purely to drop in as the rest of my army hits enemy lines so they can pop concussion grenades on 3 units. Mostly as a hard counter to tau greater good bunkers. There is literally no reason to take any more than that, because they are expensive, bikes are better, and with beta theyre not hitting early enough to make a difference.

if concussion nades worked on more than just infantry, there'd definitely be a place for them I think, but it's just too unlikely that you'll be able to use them on the units you want to turn overwatch off for as they won't be infantry. It's a pity.

Thats a valid point, especially vs tau as battlesuits arent infantry. However, what I meant was that youd use the allarus to concuss something your bikes are about to hit. And remember, you dont have to hit the units yourr charging, instead hit the surrounding firewarriors to prevent their linked overwatch and drastically reduce the incoming fire. Can be key vs t'au sept.

Anyone try out any of the FW toys yet? Am looking really hard at that grav battle tank or the transport tank.

I have heard a lot of good things about the grav tank - dreads not so much. I would love to see the option for melta spears!

RogueApiary wrote:
Anyone try out any of the FW toys yet? Am looking really hard at that grav battle tank or the transport tank.

They're all experimental rules though aren't they? No point splashing out on a £100+ model before their full rules are released and/or something better gets released with it in the new Imperial Armour.