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focusedfire wrote:I can hardly wait for the new codex. The IG player in our group has been very frustrated and mopey since the new edition.

Also hope the storms are really mean seeing as they are a central part of his IG/Inquisition army.

Amen to that brother!

Won't the rules use the old Storm Troopers rules in the Witch
Hunters Codex since they have their own entries?

To me that means they need to update the Inq armies!

He quite often runs one or the other with the troopers bouncing between. But both up-dates would be nice.

Don't know if Inq./SoB armies import anything from IG codex for the troopers. Are they completely different?

1. Lower the cost as I suspect will happen in the new codex...
2. Give them an option for underslung grenade launchers like SM honorguard. Makes them pricey but gives an option to add some weight to their fire. (NOY +15 maybe +5)
3. It is an overcharged flashlight... leave it S 3 AP5 but Assault 18" ROF 2. Yes it sucks but 18" is magic in that you can shoot and stay out of charge range of opponent.
Assault makes it mobile as opposed to Rapid Fire. "I get to volume fire once before I die...."

malfred wrote:Won't the rules use the old Storm Troopers rules in the Witch
Hunters Codex since they have their own entries?

To me that means they need to update the Inq armies!

Inq Storms will be poo because that's what their Codex says. Guard will have the "good" Storms. Kind of like SM have the "good" Storm Shields and Cyclone MLs...

Don't hold your breath waiting for Codex: Sisters of Battle and Codex: Inquistion...
____

DAaddict wrote:1. Lower the cost as I suspect will happen in the new codex...
2. Give them an option for underslung grenade launchers like SM honorguard. Makes them pricey but gives an option to add some weight to their fire. (NOY +15 maybe +5)
3. It is an overcharged flashlight... leave it S 3 AP5 but Assault 18" ROF 2.
Assault makes it mobile as opposed to Rapid Fire. "I get to volume fire once before I die...."

1. Lowering the cost still doesn't make them expecially attractive.
2. GLs? Meh. If they were single-shot Plasma cells, I'd be interested.
3. 18" range is still useless, as the all-important Plasmas (or Meltas) are 12" guns.

I have to say the best change to Hellguns I've seen proposed is to make them Rending weapons.

Considering the added punch to get through armor, Rending allows them to get an edge over Infantry Armor as well as Light Armored Vehicles.

- Marty Lund

.... sorry but personaly i think rending on its own is more powerfull then a lasgun ... ok you need to roll a 6 to wound but you manage that you causing a wound no armour saves

edit for post below

...its way too power full an upgrade for a lasgun we're talking about some thing that will mow down everything with a Toughness value it'll happily kill a wrathlord toughness 8

Tri wrote:.... sorry but personaly i think rending on its own is more powerfull then a lasgun ...

Of course - that's because Stormtroopers aren't armed with Lasguns - they are armed with Hellguns, which are supposed to cost more and be more powerful.

ok you need to roll a 6 to wound but you manage that you causing a wound no armour saves

Which is exactly the effect they should have - penetrating armor. Hellguns are designed for armor penetration. They come with a ridiculous backpack power-supply specifically to facilitate armor penetration.

I suppose if I didn't have to pick a USR, I would just treat anything shot with a Hellgun as if it had -1 AV and -1 Sv for that attack. You get the same Math-hammer results against AV10 and MEQ as Bolters do. You exchange equal kill-ratios with Sisters of Battle (3.33 per 20 shots) and still die in a straight up fire-fight to Spzz Marines. You are slightly worse than Bolter-wielders at killing 5+ Armor Save units like other IG and Eldar Guardians.

- Marty Lund

Actually, in the earlier Fluff, the power pack was to increase the weapon Strength...

Then throw a grenade launcher on the hellgun that makes it rending. Would that work?

Rending Blasts?

Yes, that'd do just fine. I'd definitely take Storms.

I hope I am not jumping into someone's kool-aid and not knowing the flavor. I love stormtroopers (ST)! The models look cool and I like the fluff of them being a special forces type of unit. But if I could write the rules for the new codex it would be something like this; stats would be the same but the hellgun would be a str 3 ap 4 assault 2 with a 24 inch range. The hellpistol would be str 3 ap 4. This would allow the ST to take on the renegade ST and the Tau fire warriors. I would also give all models both a hellgun and a hellpistol with a close combat weapon. Now to show that these guys are elites I would give them the rending special rule for the first turn of combat and only if they assaulted. If they get caught off guard they don't get it. The other big change I would give them is to let one of them be upgraded to a medic. Think about it, most special forces units in the real world have their own medics.

Now you have a unit that can shoot well (BS4), has a good save (4+), can take out most other armies basic troops without an armor save (AP 4), get a bonus for being offensive (Special Rule of mine), and have a medic to help heal them.

So what does everyone think?

the real problem is the weapons strength. STR 3 is just plain crap for the "elite" of the imperial guard and who also are extensively used by inquisitors.

i would be happy with STR 4 AP - 10 points
5-10 models 3 special weapons infiltrate and deep strike included and keeping targeters .

@glow: S4 AP- is like a Shotgun, and might as well be a Bolter for the points. That is why I like S5 AP- as something different.

Ok how about increasing the chances of causeing a wound with that str 3? hell guns get a reroll on failed wounds?

If you need to increase the chance of causing a wound, increased S is the easiest way to do that.

Lately, I have been getting this cold throbbing ache in my gut. I think it is telling me that GW isn't going to change the Hellgun at all...

They are just gonna give the the option to take shotguns (the S3 ap- assault2) version, and call it a day :|

Or perhaps, if we are *really* lucky, we will get the S4 shotgun.




But honestly, with all thse "uber" hellguns everyone is talking about, i think we are forgetting something. The new ST will have the option for shotguns (previously linked photo), so the Hellgun must be somewhat equal in power to the shotgun (again, hopefully the S4 ap- version), otherwise no one would take the shotgun (or if the Hellgun *was* so much better, it would increase the point cost a lot).


Here is my final guess:

Hellgun either S3 ap5 assault2 24" (or remains unchanged).
Shotgun S4 ap- assault2 12" (or if GW hates us, the S3 version).