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2009/04/21 09:38:01
Subject: Re:Tell me Dakka , where is this justice in this situation?
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[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego
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Which applies to everyone.
You'll note that many of the benefits count as taxable income too.
Got any figures for the "facts" you're quoting then ? Or are you pulling these.... out of thin air as well then ?
That said.... your benefit system ( like everyone's I'd guess) is quite confusing.
And you do take a lot of refugees. Fra more than your countries "fair" share.
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The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
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2016/11/04 04:28:00
Subject: Tell me Dakka , where is this justice in this situation?
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Avatar of the Bloody-Handed God
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Confusing? more room for abuse.
Facts? Well i AM a canadian , and my friends and their families always talk about it. If ur asking if i actually checked gov link, nope i havnt. (semi thin air according to you adults ? )
Yes it applies to everyone but the amount is way different.
Anyways i'll just assume you are right, its past my bed time.
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ʳʷ ᵖˡᵃʸ ᵖᵃᵘˢᵉ ˢᵗᵒᵖ ᶠᶠ |
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2009/04/21 09:51:20
Subject: Tell me Dakka , where is this justice in this situation?
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[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego
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LunaHound wrote:Confusing? more room for abuse.
Indeed. Or underpayments. CUts both ways.
Facts? Well i AM a canadian , and my friends and their families always talk about it. If ur asking if i actually checked gov link, nope i havnt. (semi thin air according to you adults ? )
No then you haven't any actual facts. To borrow a word "FAIL".
Yes it applies to everyone but the amount is way different.
Anyways i'll just assume you are right, its past my bed time.
Indeed. The same way that most "rich" people don't pay as much tax as they find ways around it.
Good night.
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The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
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2009/04/21 13:20:40
Subject: Tell me Dakka , where is this justice in this situation?
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Lord Commander in a Plush Chair
In your base, ignoring your logic.
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Just stirring the pot, but perhaps there are different tax brackets and allowances for refugees as compared to canadian citizens?
As to the whole socialist thing, we can't mechanize lower paying jobs because we need them to train youths coming into the workforce and for people who decide to drop out of school. You see, in switzerland you have a limit of success. If a dishwasher makes 600 a month, then the executive that owns the business can only make IIRC only 1,200 a month. Not sure about exact dollar amounts, but it is limited. While in america the dishwasher could make 600 a month and the executive can make up to 10,000 a month. My father never went to college, but he did 21 years in the navy, studied diesel engines and all sorts of engines, and now makes triple what he did in the navy by working for MSC. He can rebuild parts for ship engines while people higher ranking than him can't, but he's almost in one of the top two ranks now and teaches people on the ship about the engines.
So what you are telling me is that he shouldn't get paid a lot more than a person who cleans the dishes on the ship perhaps and that his income should be limited because he wanted to succeed? People are dishwashers and in lower income jobs for a reason, some have two jobs, but night classes are possible during the week so there is no excuse to trying to find a way to get a better job. I worked two jobs before, 1 in retail and the other in construction and I could still go to my local community college and take classes. I got paid $6.00 in my retail job starting out, and $9.35 at the construction job, so depending on the job you can make a lot of money or enough to support a family.
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2009/04/21 14:20:33
Subject: Tell me Dakka , where is this justice in this situation?
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[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego
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halonachos wrote:Just stirring the pot, but perhaps there are different tax brackets and allowances for refugees as compared to canadian citizens?
No, they don't.
People are dishwashers and in lower income jobs for a VARIETY of reasons,.
Fixed.
Your ability to see the point and yet miss it is really quite amazing.
And I don't quite see why making things up about the SWiss for either.
type of education salary range
apprenticeship (typically 3 or 4 years) CHF 40'000 - 80'000
academic CHF 70'000 - 150'000
"lower" management CHF 120'000 - 250'000
"higher" management CHF 200'000 +++
The point you miss is that both jobs are dependant upon each other. I don't think the guy at the top/equivalent "works" X times harder especially.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/04/21 14:20:51
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
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2009/04/21 14:26:21
Subject: Tell me Dakka , where is this justice in this situation?
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Lord Commander in a Plush Chair
In your base, ignoring your logic.
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Isn't that one of the perks of being a top guy. You start off working hard, if you work hard enough you get to be one of the guys who don't work hard.
Like leveling in WoW. When you are level 1 you have a hard time killing wild boars, when you are level 80 you have it easy against the boars.
As you can see in the very pay range that you quoted, it is possible for someone at a lower level to earn more than the guy at a higher level. This could be due to time working at the place, but could also be because of skills brought in.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/04/21 14:30:24
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2009/04/21 14:35:56
Subject: Tell me Dakka , where is this justice in this situation?
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[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego
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halonachos wrote:. This could be due to time working at the place, but could also be because of skills brought in.
Skills ? On an apprenticeship course ? Really ?
[/facepalm]
Isn't that one of the perks of being a top guy. You start off working hard
Many don't though do they ? That's part of our current problem perhaps.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/04/21 15:45:13
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
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2009/04/21 14:50:48
Subject: Tell me Dakka , where is this justice in this situation?
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Lord Commander in a Plush Chair
In your base, ignoring your logic.
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About the skills, you had several job levels. You just chose to apply the apprenticeship level to poke fun at me you fool. The manager levels man, look at the manager levels.
reds8n wrote:Many don't they do they?
I'm going to guess you meant "Many don't now do they?" and I will respond by saying yes a lot of them do. But with a higher life span it only seems like CEOs have never worked hard.
Like retail: 1 million cashiers, of which 1/4 become managers, of the managers 1/4 become district managers, of the district managers 1/10 become executives, and so on and on so that when a new president is selected from the top CEO ranks, it looks like the hard workers on the bottom have no chance. I am trying to say something here, but I'm afraid its getting lost in translation.
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2009/04/21 15:01:42
Subject: Tell me Dakka , where is this justice in this situation?
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[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego
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halonachos wrote:About the skills, you had several job levels. You just chose to apply the apprenticeship level to poke fun at me you fool.
But it's so easy with what you type.
So you're accepting that what you claimed earlier about Switzerland is bs then ? Or are you just following your usual scatter gun approach to what I'll generously describe as "debating" ?
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The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
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2009/04/21 15:05:39
Subject: Tell me Dakka , where is this justice in this situation?
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Lord Commander in a Plush Chair
In your base, ignoring your logic.
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Hmm... not too exactly sure about that. It could've changed since the time I was in high school, but like I said they could have a lower manager make more than a higher manager(don't know if you skipped that part in haste to take a jab at me).
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2009/04/21 15:08:17
Subject: Tell me Dakka , where is this justice in this situation?
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[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego
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halonachos wrote:Hmm... not too exactly sure about that. It could've changed since the time I was in high school, but like I said they could have a lower manager make more than a higher manager(don't know if you skipped that part in haste to take a jab at me).
Things changes since you were in school ?  fething hell ! They didn't even send you a memo ? Lazy Swiss heathens.
I never denied it was possible, but exceptionally unlikely I would suggest and generally that would come with length of service or skill base. And that's not particular to the Swiss either.
Still why let the facts get in the way of your world view eh ?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/04/21 15:08:34
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
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2009/04/21 15:15:28
Subject: Re:Tell me Dakka , where is this justice in this situation?
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Lord Commander in a Plush Chair
In your base, ignoring your logic.
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This shows that america is only considering capping executive income. Its called nationalization instead of socialism I guess.
Yes Reds8n, why let facts obscure YOUR world view after all.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/04/21 15:16:01
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2009/04/21 15:18:53
Subject: Re:Tell me Dakka , where is this justice in this situation?
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[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego
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Everyman and his dog knows this. It was mooted after the massive outcry by the public at the salaries and bonuses people in the bailed out companies are/were getting.
And this is relevant how ?
..is this the equivalent of debating chaff ?
EDIT : what facts have you presented ? YOu made up some stuff about Switzerland and.. and... what ? Are you drunk ?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/04/21 15:19:48
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
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2009/04/21 15:23:03
Subject: Tell me Dakka , where is this justice in this situation?
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Lord Commander in a Plush Chair
In your base, ignoring your logic.
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Well, you said it was common in many countries to limit pay. America doesn't, just because you can't put it together doesn't mean its not a valid argument it means that you can't think.
Switzerland was nationalized at some point and according to the textbooks we used they limit pay for executives in relation to the lowest paid worker.
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2009/04/21 15:38:28
Subject: Tell me Dakka , where is this justice in this situation?
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[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego
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halonachos wrote:Well, you said it was common in many countries to limit pay.
Where ?
America doesn't
Except you do, as the link that YOU posted shows. You also have wage caps in areas such as sport for example.
, just because you can't put it together doesn't mean its not a valid argument it means that you can't think.
Switzerland was nationalized at some point and according to the textbooks we used they limit pay for executives in relation to the lowest paid worker.
It's not a valid argument if it isn't relevant.
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The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
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2009/04/21 15:50:53
Subject: Tell me Dakka , where is this justice in this situation?
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Lord Commander in a Plush Chair
In your base, ignoring your logic.
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Finding the relevance is up to you, I can find relevance between the article and the discussion while you can't. So that means either I am more creative in thinking or that you are too dull.
Ah, misread the whole "that's not particular to the swiss" thing.
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2009/04/21 15:57:38
Subject: Tell me Dakka , where is this justice in this situation?
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[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego
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halonachos wrote:Finding the relevance is up to you, I can find relevance between the article and the discussion while you can't. So that means either I am more creative in thinking or that you are too dull.
Indeed.
Or that you're too thick to realise there is no relevance between that article and what we were actually "talking" about.
Hmm... I wonder.
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The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
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2009/04/21 16:00:28
Subject: Tell me Dakka , where is this justice in this situation?
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Lord Commander in a Plush Chair
In your base, ignoring your logic.
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Clinicly gifted would like to argue that point.
Gifted=Thinks differently.
You see a tomato and see a fruit, I see a tomato and see ketchup.
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2009/04/21 16:02:36
Subject: Re:Tell me Dakka , where is this justice in this situation?
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[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego
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Enlighten me then oh wise one.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/04/21 16:04:50
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
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2009/04/21 16:04:04
Subject: Tell me Dakka , where is this justice in this situation?
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Lord Commander in a Plush Chair
In your base, ignoring your logic.
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Don't say wise one, Socrates was wise and drank hemlock. I am not saying wise, I am saying that I will always think differently from you no matter what you say. I will always interpret facts different from you. We will never reach an agreement.
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2009/04/21 16:07:58
Subject: Tell me Dakka , where is this justice in this situation?
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[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego
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halonachos wrote: Socrates was wise and drank hemlock. .
Yes. But to prove a point.
A lot of people, mindcrushingly stupid ones, miss this vital fact.
oh,
Clinicly
is spelt clinically btw.
You got gifted right at least.
And we can agree, see:
I am not saying wise
You're not. We agree.
Still waiting for this explanation.....
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The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
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2009/04/21 16:14:10
Subject: Tell me Dakka , where is this justice in this situation?
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Lord Commander in a Plush Chair
In your base, ignoring your logic.
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He drank hemlock because he couldn't do philosophy anymore, boo hoo. He said an unexamined life was not worth living. Apparantly what he was doing before going to trial was not examining his life at all. I think that most don't think on that point.
What is "still waiting for this explanation.....". I am guessing the post before this whole side discussion.
I believe that you are not wise either, so yes that is an agreement.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/04/21 16:16:43
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2009/04/21 16:23:00
Subject: Tell me Dakka , where is this justice in this situation?
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[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego
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halonachos wrote:He drank hemlock because he couldn't do philosophy anymore, boo hoo.
And you're one of the people who either don't know or understands why he did it. Congratulations.
Given your acknowledged anti Govt. interference stance I thought you'd be more supportive of his stance.
What is "still waiting for this explanation.....". I am guessing the post before this whole side discussion.
I believe that you are not wise either, so yes that is an agreement.
Indeed it is.
And by just agreeing with me you've just shot down your own argument some more. Brilliant, thanks.
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The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
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2009/04/21 16:27:09
Subject: Tell me Dakka , where is this justice in this situation?
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Lord Commander in a Plush Chair
In your base, ignoring your logic.
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Okay fine, Socrates drank hemlock in a protest against the censorship of thought by the Greek government. Fine, you got me to say that.
Oh yay, you are winning in an argument about us never agreeing with each other. How droll.
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2009/04/21 16:29:02
Subject: Re:Tell me Dakka , where is this justice in this situation?
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[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego
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At least you understand that term. 
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The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
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2009/04/21 16:38:18
Subject: Tell me Dakka , where is this justice in this situation?
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Lord Commander in a Plush Chair
In your base, ignoring your logic.
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I understand loads of terms.
However, I find that using larger vocabulary terms is superfluos to facilitating the message that one is trying to convey to another in discussion.
I could say the above or I could say:
I think that using larger words is unnecessary in trying to tell another what one is thinking.
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2009/04/21 16:44:12
Subject: Tell me Dakka , where is this justice in this situation?
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[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego
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halonachos wrote:
However, I find that using larger vocabulary terms is superfluos to facilitating the message that one is trying to convey to another in discussion.
superfluous is how it's spelt. That's also appallling grammar/sentence contruction in the above "sentence".
I could say the above or I could say:
I think that using larger words is unnecessary in trying to tell another what one is thinking.
True. But if one can use them correctly then one can appear smart, or at least moderately well informed. There are of courses nuances that can be lost. The difference between something being "big" or massive" for example. Or laboured and pointless.
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The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
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2009/04/21 16:51:35
Subject: Tell me Dakka , where is this justice in this situation?
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Lord Commander in a Plush Chair
In your base, ignoring your logic.
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reds8n wrote:There are of courses nuances that can be lost.
Its "There are, of course, nuances that can be lost. I blame my spelling of superfluous on my less-than-sensitive keyboard.
reds8n wrote: The difference between something being "big" or "massive" for example. Or laboured and pointless.
Easily written correctly as:
"The difference between something being "big" or "massive", or "laboured" and "pointless" for example."
Criticizing grammar with bad grammar is not good. We should stop that.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/04/21 16:52:27
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2009/04/21 16:55:22
Subject: Tell me Dakka , where is this justice in this situation?
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[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego
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halonachos wrote:
Its "There are, of course, nuances that can be lost. I blame my spelling of superfluous on my less-than-sensitive keyboard.
No, that's not correct. The lack of , is quite intentional. Ironically that's a nuance.....
reds8n wrote: The difference between something being "big" or "massive" for example. Or laboured and pointless.
Easily written correctly as:
"The difference between something being "big" or "massive", or "laboured" and "pointless" for example."
Criticizing grammar with bad grammar is not good. We should stop that.
Nope. That's another nuance you've missed.
I can explain it if you'd like.
Oh
However, I find that using larger vocabulary terms is superfluos to facilitating the message that one is trying to convey to another in discussion.
I've underlined the most hideous bit. Say it out loud and you'll see ( well, hear anyway) how clunky that is.
EDIT : doesn't matter...
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2009/04/21 16:58:57
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
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2009/04/21 17:09:08
Subject: Tell me Dakka , where is this justice in this situation?
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Lord Commander in a Plush Chair
In your base, ignoring your logic.
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You still said "courses" instead of "course".
Another point with the larger words, they can get clunky and difficult to use. Their use is not really necessary.
The correction I did for the sentence containing "big" or "massive" was hard to do so I was trying for the correction. You see, the way you structured the sentence left an incomplete bit at the end that seemed to belong with the previous sentence. After all, using an or as the beginning of the second sentence when the previous one was also comparing something makes it seem like the two go together.
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