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Anywho, going to lunch and then to study. I will be back to annoy you my good sir.

Modquisition on:
Gentlemen, politeness is required under the Rules of Dakka, even in the OT zone. The discussion has been interesting - don't smash it by personal stuff and nit picking.

Modquisition off.

And remember kids,

jp400 wrote:I am a big fan of the idea that the government shouldnt support the poor/illegals. Why you may ask? Cause all it does is feth over the non-lazy who actually want to do something with their lifes. The Above is a perfect example of this!

We give them free food, free/low income houses, free medical, (Yes its free... if you show up to an ER and cant pay by law they cant turn you away, thats why your Bill is so high cause your paying for every person that has ever stiffed the system), Free Money and countless handouts in every way shape or form from cloths to cars.

I also wish that the government would bulldoze every last building in every shantytown/ghetto/trailor Park. Dont want to be homeless? Upkeep your building and dont turn it into a drug slum.

Dont want to starve and have a roof over your head? Get a job! Dont sit at home with 10 kids waiting for the food stamps to show up while cooking meth in the kitchen.

That's pretty much how I feel too. When the government takes 30% of the money I make in a year, if not more, to support those too lazy to get a job and make something of their life, I'd say I've about had it. And the truth is, in America, you CAN make something of yourself if you just get off your rear and do it! Find a job in construction or at a retail outlet or something, don't sit around sucking money off of us who are willing to work for a living!

GAH! It irks me so much! Sure, supporting the poor is noble, just, and right. But let the charities do it. The charities support the ones who are willing to do something in exchange for shelter and food.

And illegal immigrants? Why the heck should we support the poor from other countries? Sure, you want to come to America to make a life for yourself. Ok, fine. Go ahead. But do it legally. Illegal immigration is just that: ILLEGAL!

LunaHound, as for those nasty varmints, I think Redbeard's "predator-scent" idea is a great one. Doesn't leave any corpses either. (Personally, I use a BB gun to plink squirrels, but that would be less practical for raccoons in an attic.)

Sure, supporting the poor is noble, just, and right. But let the charities do it.

Should I need to point out why this is wrong?

halonachos wrote:Just stirring the pot, but perhaps there are different tax brackets and allowances for refugees as compared to canadian citizens?

Yes they do ,
reds8n sees that everyone is charged the same tax , but since he doesnt live here, he doesnt realize
the refunds the governments give.

And the amount of refunds differ to different citizen based on their income .

For example, 2 years ago, we had to help my dad pay almost $60,000 in the tax he owed since he left Canada. ( this amount is what reds8n assumes everyone pays )
Its only till sometime last febuary ( 10+ month later) the IRS finished investigating our family, and refunded $19,000 back. ( this amount is what reds8n doesnt know we get back)


@Brother Captain Andrecus

I have no idea where to acqiure predator scent , but so far i have been told to get a bucket, fill it with bleach , close the lid and poke some holes around it and leave it
in every corner of the house. Apprantly the odor of it will disturb them enough to not want to nest near it. ( though i think raccoons will just push the bucket off the roof lol )

LunaHound wrote:

halonachos wrote:Just stirring the pot, but perhaps there are different tax brackets and allowances for refugees as compared to canadian citizens?

Yes they do ,
reds8n sees that everyone is charged the same tax , but since he doesnt live here, he doesnt realize
the refunds the governments give.

And the amount of refunds differ to different citizen based on their income .

For example, 2 years ago, we had to help my dad pay almost $60,000 in the tax he owed since he left Canada. ( this amount is what reds8n assumes everyone pays )
Its only till sometime last febuary ( 10+ month later) the IRS finished investigating our family, and refunded $19,000 back. ( this amount is what reds8n doesnt know we get back)

Except A. That isn't what I think and B that isnt what he said.

Of course people pay different % tax depending upon their income. *golf clap*

Immigrants do not have a special "immigrants" tax bracket. They are taxed/receive benefits exactly the same as every other person in their bracket.

Amazing what you can find when you actally look things up instead of basing your entire "argument" on hearsay and " well my mate says".

The Dreadnote wrote:

Sure, supporting the poor is noble, just, and right. But let the charities do it.

Should I need to point out why this is wrong?

Why is this wrong? Why the heck should we HAVE to pay for the lazy to be lazy. If you had to apply through a charity, it would help weed out the scum that abuse the system.

And before you say "Well what about the other people!"..

Honestly I dont care about them. If starvation and death cant motivate you to get off your arse and find a job then we need to weed you from the gene pool.

reds8n wrote:

LunaHound wrote:

halonachos wrote:Just stirring the pot, but perhaps there are different tax brackets and allowances for refugees as compared to canadian citizens?

Yes they do ,
reds8n sees that everyone is charged the same tax , but since he doesnt live here, he doesnt realize
the refunds the governments give.

And the amount of refunds differ to different citizen based on their income .

For example, 2 years ago, we had to help my dad pay almost $60,000 in the tax he owed since he left Canada. ( this amount is what reds8n assumes everyone pays )
Its only till sometime last febuary ( 10+ month later) the IRS finished investigating our family, and refunded $19,000 back. ( this amount is what reds8n doesnt know we get back)

Except A. That isn't what I think and B that isnt what he said.

Of course people pay different % tax depending upon their income. *golf clap*

Immigrants do not have a special "immigrants" tax bracket. They are taxed/receive benefits exactly the same as every other person in their bracket.

Amazing what you can find when you actally look things up instead of basing your entire "argument" on hearsay and " well my mate says".

K lets just pretend that because i cant find the details on that stupid website, everyone in my province's anguish is just all in our imagination.

As i already said they dont have a special tax bracket, they do have additional refunds ( sometimes they get more refund than what they originally paid depending on how the government adjust it ). Not sure how many times i have to repeat myself. ( and again you'll say "find the link or it didnt happen" )
Im staying out of this convo now, because someone from europe apparently knows more than what our community have been dealing with for the past decade.

sorry British Columbian, i have failed you because i suck at digging stuff up in that website.

Greebynog wrote:@Ironhide (going waaaay back): I'd love to give him a place to stay, but I don't think my 5 housemates or my landlord would see it like that. Perhaps the council could have just let him have one of the 1 million empty homes in Britain.

I feel I should clarify my earlier points; I agree that people abusing benefits is a problem. I just happen to think that people living in pverty is far more of a problem, and we should deal with that first. Get everyone off the streets, get everyone above the poverty line, get everyone decent educational opportunities. After that, we'll catch the scroungers. I think it's far more criminal that in London, one of the wealthiest economic centres in the world (I seem to remember it's the wealthiest, buut I can't be sure) we have one in three children growing up in poverty and extremely high homlessness rates. I care more about that than a few people getting more benefits than they deserve.

Does Britain offer low-cost/no-cost housing to the poor/needy?

BloodofOrks wrote:@Ironhide: Are you boycotting Chinese products, or are you okay with the human rights abuses? Luna pointed to a Chinese social program and suggested something along those line be implemented. I pointed out what such a plan actually entailed. Then you called me a hypocrite for informing Luna of what she had suggested. So by your logic, since I do not think Canada should adopt China's "one child policy" I should be boycotting China... what?

I don't boycott Chinese products and I don't have a problem with their policies. I don't live in China, nor am I Asian, nor am I an expert on their culture/way of living. So I'm not going to presume to have the right to tell them what they can or can't do. China says they have a population problem. Who am I to say they don't? At least they don't have soldiers walking through streets killing every fifth person to fix thier population problem.

I said you were a hypocrite if you bought Chinese products, but extolled the evils of their policies. Because by doing so you are providing such an "evil" regime with money to finance it practices, which would be hypocritical.

Did someone actually say that Canada should adopt China's "one cild policy"? I must have missed that post. I thought we were saying to limit the amount of children that can be claimed for government benefits/aid, not limiting them to how many they could have.

jp400 wrote:Why is this wrong? Why the heck should we HAVE to pay for the lazy to be lazy. If you had to apply through a charity, it would help weed out the scum that abuse the system.

And before you say "Well what about the other people!"..

Honestly I dont care about them. If starvation and death cant motivate you to get off your arse and find a job then we need to weed you from the gene pool.

So then they'll just be ripping off the charities? That's not the way to go. Government just needs to regulate their programs better.

Did I miss something? Is reds8n Canadian or EU? So hard to tell these days with the internet giving me all this factual information.

He is EU, i can tell just by him bringing out the tax link and point that at me without bringing out the rebate returns that im talking about.

Where the hell did I ever use the word evil? You're putting words in my mouth and it is not appreciated.

Uh, where does it say, "BloodofOrks thinks China is evil", in my previous post? But if it makes you feel better:

I said you were a hypocrite if you bought Chinese products, but extolled the wrongness of their policies. Because by doing so you are providing such a country with money to finance it practices, which would be hypocritical.

Ironhide wrote:

I said you were a hypocrite if you bought Chinese products, but extolled the evils of their policies. Because by doing so you are providing such an "evil" regime with money to finance it practices, which would be hypocritical.

The way you phrased this implies that I called China evil. I said no such thing. You're the only one on this thread who has called China evil.

What's really stupid about this is that I gave nothing more than an accurate description of the enforcement strategy a single Chinese policy and called it for what is was: a human rights abuse. Hey guess what? The United States has committed hundreds of human rights abuses in Iraq, Afghanistan, Guantanamo Bay, our secret network of CIA prisons, the NSA wire taps and other programs and fronts. These programs were abuses of both civil liberties and human rights. If I were a jerk I could accuse you of supporting the deaths of Iraqi women and children for buying American products but I recognize that it is a petty way to go about an argument. Everyone has blood on their hands. Threatening a boycott for human rights abuses is pointless because the Chinese could accuse us of our own crimes and do the same and they'd be just as right to do so.

Did it never occur to you that you don't actually know my feelings toward China as a whole? Maybe I oppose a boycott because I think it's bad policy. I don't have to have a black or white opinion on this issue. The opinion of my world view you have constructed from my posts is inaccurate at best.

Ironhide wrote:

Did someone actually say that Canada should adopt China's "one cild policy"? I must have missed that post. I thought we were saying to limit the amount of children that can be claimed for government benefits/aid, not limiting them to how many they could have.

Luna endorsed it.

LunaHound wrote:


Remember China's one child policy? now that works.
What does canada do? their loop holes encourages the burden on the rest of the country EXPONENTIALLY .

I warned Luna that endorsing such a program wasn't exactly a good idea since the program resulted in social problems and government abuses.

BloodofOrks wrote:Um, Luna, China "one child policy" has never been demonstrated to have actually controlled China's population. Not only that, but it has resulted in the forced sterilization of tens of thousands and who knows how many forced abortions. I wouldn't go around promoting a system of government controlled reproduction.

She misunderstood what I meant so I put it bluntly. Then You called me a hypocrite for trying to explain to Luna why casual endorsements of China's one child policy might give people the wrong idea about what she was endorsing. You took my comments out of context and have been picking apart my words. I even tried to explain what I meant by my earlier comment.

BloodofOrks wrote:@Ironhide

I have a choice about buying products from China? Oh my. Seriously, I oppose China's human rights violations not China or its citizens. I was criticizing Luna for romanticizing a public policy which results in millions of people being mistreated, not trying to start an embargo on China.

Now again: I never intended my comments as a criticism of China! I was trying to warn Luna against a bit of language she used which represented a far more extreme policy then what she was endorsing. I wasn't trying to attack anyone. If anyone has taken any offense to anything I have post then I am sorry, I never intended to offend anyone. Ironhide, the only opinion I gave was that I oppose human rights abuses. I oppose all human rights abuses even those committed by my own government! What are you demanding of me? That I be more apathetic? I have only stated facts. You don't know my opinions about China so how is it appropriate to call me a hypocrite?

First off, thank you for spelling it out for me. I try to read everything and decipher what the writer intended, buy damn if it ain't hard to get it right all the time.

Second, sorry for taking your post out of context. Although it does seem to be commonplace around here.

Third, I'm not demanding anything of you. I just want you to realize how crazy it is to bemoan something, while at the same time supporting it (albeit indirectly). Kinda like how people complain about big government not doing anything to save the environment, yet drive smog-producing, gas-guzzling, cars while gulping down a burger and tossing the big gulp out the car.

So....what are your opinions on China?

You guys told me the world is not just black and white there are various shades of gray. Yes you are right.
I brought up China's one child policy as idea that we might be able to refine with poverty and population control ,
obviousely atm in the stages of extreme black or white. You guys are so eager to shut me up that you forget the whole gray part.
why?

This is exactly why humans never solve anything. No one ever come up with some sort of solution to what i said.
Instead all you focus on is trying to say what i said doesnt happen at all.

Thats the sad part , and i dont mean sad as insult, Like emotionally sad. Because what i said does happen and our
whole province is aware of this. Yet outsider rather come and tell us it doesnt happen?

My opinions regarding China are... complicated. As I said before I don't like their human rights record, however I acknowledge that the US currently doesn't have a sterling record itself, so making demands of China without first dealing with our own issues make us hypocrites. That said, China should be applauded for how much progress they have made in such a short amount of time. It wasn't long ago that the nation was being pressed to the breaking point by a brutal communist dictator. China has come a long way, and it is important to recognize what it comes from to put it proper context.

I think military and economic posturing is usually counterproductive. The Chinese government is often made to feel discriminated against by western powers. Now it can be argued that much of China's behavior in this regard is posturing, but I think the situation can be best improved by working to maintain friendly relations and giving the Chinese government incentives to better the lives of it's citizens.

Besides, the US and China's economies are so mutually dependent that a blow to China's economy will damage our own. Right now is an especially bad time to strain our relations as we are trying to convince China to buy more of our debt and are reworking international banking laws which we will need China's support to work. Pragmatically, it is in both the US and China's best interest to maintain trade.

One story that gives me hope is that of the Chinese performance artist Zhang Huan. Zhang began his work in the early nineteen-nineties. His works dealt with the physical nature of life and were rather extreme and meant to be almost unbearable. The Chinese government caught wind of Zhang's performances and despite the fact that Zhang's works were not even political in nature, raided his house on two occasions. Both times Zhang had to leave town to avoid arrest. Zhang's works went on to earn international fame. These days the Chinese government loves to brag about the richness of it's once oppressed artistic communities and have praised Zhang's works.

China is a complicated place with a lot of complicated problems. There's a lot to like and a lot that needs to be improved. I don't know how to fix China's problems, but I think many of these problems would be best resolved through incentive and careful diplomacy. And lets face it, China has one of the worlds largest economies and it's probably only going to get bigger as China's middle class grows. As China's economy develops and the standard of life for it's citizens is raised, people are going to want more involvement in their government. If China feels that it is in it's best interest as a growing power to have a freer society, then it might very well happen. The path to a more free open China is probably going to take a very long time. I feel that it is probably better to back slow steady change than to take a massive risk on policies which could backfire.

That being said it is important to try not to appease the Chinese government too much in regards to their human right issues. Which is very complicated due to the US's current human right problems. I have no idea how to market this one. I'll just have to trust that the US has ambassadors and Statesmen who are capable of figuring that out.

I should stop now as I could likely ramble for a few pages more. China perplexes me and I have very mixed feeling about it's government. Odds are tomorrow I'll read some article on this subject and completely change my mind again.

You can ramble as much as you want , i'll read them in PM if you dont want to post it here right now

LunaHound wrote:
K lets just pretend that because i cant find the details on that stupid website, everyone in my province's anguish is just all in our imagination.

As i already said they dont have a special tax bracket, they do have additional refunds ( sometimes they get more refund than what they originally paid depending on how the government adjust it ). Not sure how many times i have to repeat myself. ( and again you'll say "find the link or it didnt happen" )
Im staying out of this convo now, because someone from europe apparently knows more than what our community have been dealing with for the past decade.

sorry British Columbian, I have failed you because i suck at digging stuff up in that website.

No, again that's not what I said.

And yes, when you made stupid accusations based on,ies and hearsay I would like it if you could provide some evidence, especiallt for the refund for the taxes they haven't paid that you're now whining about.

Still, I'll just sit here and wait for more of your bluster and shoutinginstead of an actual argument.

Again.

Stupid accusations? Ppl would stone you to death if you are in BC right now.

Enough , dont need someone across the globe telling us what happen and doesnt happen.

t(^^t) <- thats what i think of your so called "stupid accusation"

jp400 wrote:

The Dreadnote wrote:

Sure, supporting the poor is noble, just, and right. But let the charities do it.

Should I need to point out why this is wrong?

Why is this wrong? Why the heck should we HAVE to pay for the lazy to be lazy. If you had to apply through a charity, it would help weed out the scum that abuse the system.

And before you say "Well what about the other people!"..

Honestly I dont care about them. If starvation and death cant motivate you to get off your arse and find a job then we need to weed you from the gene pool.

I find it somewhat hard to believe that finding a job is as easy for everyone as you seem to be asserting. Otherwise there wouldn't be a joblessness problem.

It's the middle ground that I'm concerned about, that lies somewhere between "I can get a job very easily" and "I am abusing the system". I don't know about you, but I've never been starving or homeless, and I haven't managed to get a job yet. I don't presume to know how hard it is for the less priveliged.

jp400 wrote:Honestly I dont care about them.

This is what's wrong. Nothing I can do about it except try and pick up the slack.

LunaHound wrote:Stupid accusations? Ppl would stone you to death if you are in BC right now.

Enough , dont need someone across the globe telling us what happen and doesnt happen.

t(^^t)

It would seem you do.

Still why let the facts get in the way of your bigotry eh ?

OH noes ! The $%^ £$% girl called me a name !

The Canadian federal government plans to remove a $975 landing fee (called "head tax" by its critics) on refugees. The tax will continue to be imposed on others seeking permanent residency in Canada, official sources say.

Just putting this up, apparantly there was a refugee only tax that is being repealed for temporary refugees. America has a policy of charging for transportation and resettling.

Circa 1999.
Canada in 1995 began to charge immigrants a landing fee of C$975 to cover administrative costs and to cover the cost of some integration services. Refugee advocates capitalizing on the arrival of Kosovars to create an exemption from landing fees for refugees, say: "It is ludicrous to offer them financial assistance through resettlement on the one hand and then force them to go into debt in order to pay this head tax on the other."

In addition to the landing fee, there is also a $500 administration fee for adults who apply for permanent residence and a $100 fee for dependents. A family of four normally pays $3,150 to enter Canada as legal immigrants and the Canadian government spends an estimated $30,000 to $40,000 to resettle each family. Refugees, who are exempt from administrative fees but not landing charges, can borrow the money from the government to pay landing fees.

Canadian officials granted special exemptions in 1998 to 1,453 people who, because of criminal records or medical conditions would otherwise have been barred from entering Canada. The exemptions, known as minister's permits, were given to a total of 2,600 people, more than half of whom had a criminal record. The permits are issued for a limited period of time and can be revoked at any time by the immigration minister.

The ending of the second paragraph is funny.

I didnt call you any name 0.o .

Facts? you dig up half of the facts and call it whole.
Dig up the rebates and government returns too why dont you?

Bigotry? You mean someone that reads half of the rules and claims to be right while accusing known issue to the locals to be "stupid accusation" ?

LunaHound wrote:
I didnt call you any name 0.o .

Facts? you dig up half of the facts and call it whole.
Dig up the rebates and government returns too why dont you?

Yes, F A C T S the things you haven't provided any of .

You want me to argue your point for you ? What returns are you talking about ?

Bigotry? You mean someone that reads half of the rules and claims to be right while accusing known issue to the locals to be "stupid accusation" ?

No, you don't even know what that means ? Wow... not that surprising though I guess.

There's a big difference often between what people think they know and the actual facts.

Like immigrants not being paid 900 dollars a month + 300 dollars per child for example.

Typically these people then resort to some vague attempt at making threats.

Oh.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bigotry

I know what bigotry means ty.

Im offended because like i said sooo many times already.
Why start talking with half of the process, why not also post
the tax rebates they receive?

Im offended because you said it was "stupid accusation"
because someone in england dont know xx about what happens in my province yet they still woof woof woof

halonachos wrote:

Canadian officials granted special exemptions in 1998 to 1,453 people who, because of criminal records or medical conditions would otherwise have been barred from entering Canada. The exemptions, known as minister's permits, were given to a total of 2,600 people, more than half of whom had a criminal record. The permits are issued for a limited period of time and can be revoked at any time by the immigration minister.

It appears that the issue isn't refugees becoming criminals, but letting in refugees that were already criminals. That's pretty bad in my books.

LunaHound wrote:
Why start talking with half of the process, why not also post
the tax rebates they receive?

Which are what ? What do they get ?

Im offended because you said it was "stupid accusation"
because someone in england dont know xx about what happens in my province yet they still woof woof woof

It was and is a stupid accusation.

You should try reading and researching, it'll help you out a lot.

Or at the very least mean that you're not just postsing the equivalent of white noise.

Again.

Depend upon what the crime(s) were surely Mr. H ?

Issuance date Number of Payments Amount Issued
April 20th, 2009 Cheques 679,894 $184,381,765.47
Direct Deposits 2,198,895 $641,787,159.29
Total 2,878,789 $826,168,924.76


Goods and Services Tax/Harmonized Sales Tax (GST/HST) credit
Issuance date Number of Payments Amount Issued
April 3rd, 2009 Cheques 5,038,360 $460,564,101.27
Direct Deposits 3,516,411 $370,045,455.84
Total 8,554,771 $830,609,557.11