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The Dark Angels were their to take all the Alpha legion marines which annoyed Hector Rex. Their Condition was "Will help you but we get all the Alpha marine prisoners." They were doing that to cover their own asses and yet he still accepted their help instead of the sisters. Hector Rex had a tough time with this decision cause he knew they wouldn't share any information about it. He wanted to capture the Alpha Legion marines so he could learn of their agents in the Imperium and cleanse them but this never happened thanks to the dark angels. Also at that point he could have said no to and their was nothing the dark angels could have really done.

In the end Rex refused to accept any help for the Ordo Hereticus. Besides he's not going to bunch everyone in one group, you see one space marine chapter fall to chaos, you suddenly refuse to use any space marines to fight them? Hell no.

The Dark Angels wanted one prisoner, and one prisoner only.

Arkos the Faithless. Anyone else was open season for the Inquisition.

Well one thing is for sure: FW writes those DA donkey-caves pretty accurately.

And technically, it wasn't the Dark Angels.

It was the Angels of Absolution, acting under Azrael's orders and an agreement that Azrael had made with the acting Siege General before the outset of a massive Ork Waagh! necessitated the Dark Angels' withdrawal from the field after taking and destroying the Vraksian spaceport, preventing Traitor Astartes from intervening too heavily against the Krieg Siege Division, at the beginning of the campaign to retake Vraks.

So refer to it as "The Unforgiven", not "The Dark Angels". For accuracy's sake, mind

They took 15 prisoners including Arkos the Faithless.

Except they only wanted Arkos, and turned the rest over after interrogating them first.

No, page 76, they requested that they take all alpha legion prisoners they were mainly Interested in Arkos but they still demanded all Alpha Legion prisoners.

You state that, but then you also leave out part of Rex's decision process:
"Would Azrael make good use of any information he acquired? Would his Chapter use it purely for their own ends, or for the good of the wider Imperium?"

Same page as your statement about "all Alpha Legion prisoners".

Oh, and pages 87-88. "The six martyrs of Vraks" were the Sisters you were referring to.

Six of them, considered to be too dangerously tained and exposed to too much daemonic activity.
Considering the Ordo Malleus is the only branch "empowered to deal with their corruption", the Ordo Hereticus was raising a stink to raise one over the Unforgiven snatching a prize target like Arkos out from under them and the fact that Rex was chosen to lead the campaign, not the Hereticus Inquisitor that was put forward to originally lead it.

Hector Rex knew that they probably wouldn't tell him, he knew that it would be best if the Ordo Mallues took the prisoners. He knew that the angels would probably use it for their own ends and not share the information to the Inquisition.

Also the parts of the sisters was terrible written, it was all summed in one paragraph in the first siege of Vraks. There here and now their gone and defeated. Also what was up with the Prioress deciding to meet up with the Cardinal. That made no sense. She doesn't need his permission to do anything. It was terrible written and I refuse to see that as fluff.

You refusing to see it as fluff doesn't make it any less fluff.

Hell, the Sisters could've been wearing pink tutus and firing waterguns filled with pina coladas at daemons--and guess what?

It'd have been fluff.

About the only real "excuse" for ignoring background is if the material predates the Eye of Terror campaign. A lot of general background material was discreetly altered since then, and it marked the first(and last) real "timeline" effort by GW then.

Forge World is not techincally GW which techincally makes it not fluff. It was also badly and quickly written. Also GW will probably forget about it and never use it when determining how to do the sisters in the next codex. Also my point on Hector Rex still stands.

Uh no.
Forge World is GW.
Black Library is GW(excluding C.S. Goto, as they're quietly getting rid of all his crap and have already stopped hiring him to do anything. The last thing I can think of is a story he submitted years ago that's being published in an anthology now).

Forge World's background is sure as heck more "valid" than some random stories written by the fans.

Kanluwen wrote:Uh no.
Forge World is GW.
Black Library is GW(excluding C.S. Goto, as they're quietly getting rid of all his crap and have already stopped hiring him to do anything. The last thing I can think of is a story he submitted years ago that's being published in an anthology now).

Forge World's background is sure as heck more "valid" than some random stories written by the fans.

Black Library is not Cannon. If it is then you have to accept C.S. Goto work as cannon to. Forge World is techincally not GW, it is another company which is owned by GW but is not GW. They make GW products but are not GW thus their material is not Cannon or else so is C.S. Goto. Also my other points still stand. The sisters also did fight against the Cardinal but even after that Hector Rex still refused to allow them to fight.

If it's published by GW, FW, or BL it is definitely canonical until one of those same sources prints an explicit and direct contradiction. (I'm not sure about FFG, however.)

Again, no.

Forge World, just like the Black Library and the Codex authors, has to have their background material cleared by Lindsey Priestley, aka the wife of Rick Priestly.

Y'know, the guy who basically created Warhammer 40,000?

Lindsey is the woman who's been in charge of ensuring that any background material has some basis in the general background of 40k since the wankery that was C.S. Goto started in with things like Falcon surfing or Landrazorbackraiders.


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Manchu wrote:If it's published by GW, FW, or BL it is definitely canonical until one of those same sources prints an explicit and direct contradiction. (I'm not sure about FFG, however.)

FFG is considered just as canonical, according to Andy Hoare and Lindsey Priestly.

Also: sorry if you don't like Goto (I sympathize, I really do) but they still let him write. Not liking him--or rather him just not being good--is not enough to knock his stuff out of canon.

Kanluwen wrote:Again, no.

Forge World, just like the Black Library and the Codex authors, has to have their background material cleared by Lindsey Priestley, aka the wife of Rick Priestly.

Y'know, the guy who basically created Warhammer 40,000?

Lindsey is the woman who's been in charge of ensuring that any background material has some basis in the general background of 40k since the wankery that was C.S. Goto started in with things like Falcon surfing or Landrazorbackraiders.


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Manchu wrote:If it's published by GW, FW, or BL it is definitely canonical until one of those same sources prints an explicit and direct contradiction. (I'm not sure about FFG, however.)

FFG is considered just as canonical, according to Andy Hoare and Lindsey Priestly.

I believe you are lying. I wish for you to provide me some proof of this statement that all fluff is read and cleared by them.
Also Rumor has it C.S. Goto is writing the Necron Codex fluff.

Manchu wrote:Also: sorry if you don't like Goto (I sympathize, I really do) but they still let him write. Not liking him--or rather him just not being good--is not enough to knock his stuff out of canon.

No, they don't. Any author currently employed by Black Library has a blurb on the website.

He does not

I didn't know Lindsey Priestly filled that role. What does Alan Merrett do then?

He is still on the website: http://www.blacklibrary.com/Authors/C-S-Goto.html

Necrosis wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Again, no.

Forge World, just like the Black Library and the Codex authors, has to have their background material cleared by Lindsey Priestley, aka the wife of Rick Priestly.

Y'know, the guy who basically created Warhammer 40,000?

Lindsey is the woman who's been in charge of ensuring that any background material has some basis in the general background of 40k since the wankery that was C.S. Goto started in with things like Falcon surfing or Landrazorbackraiders.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Manchu wrote:If it's published by GW, FW, or BL it is definitely canonical until one of those same sources prints an explicit and direct contradiction. (I'm not sure about FFG, however.)

FFG is considered just as canonical, according to Andy Hoare and Lindsey Priestly.

I believe you are lying. I wish for you to provide me some proof of this statement that all fluff is read and cleared by them.
Also Rumor has it C.S. Goto is writing the Necron Codex fluff.

Rumor has it I'm selling the Brooklyn Bridge down in Tampa Bay. Interested?

Go read any of the Black Library authors' blogs or comments about the "Horus Heresy meetings". Particularly Aaron Dembski-Bowden's.

Lindsey Priestly is the Background Commissar. You feth up any of the background badly, she makes you go back and start from scratch.

Kanluwen wrote:

Manchu wrote:Also: sorry if you don't like Goto (I sympathize, I really do) but they still let him write. Not liking him--or rather him just not being good--is not enough to knock his stuff out of canon.

No, they don't. Any author currently employed by Black Library has a blurb on the website.

He does not

Oops! Usually you're on the ball with this stuff, Kanluwen. Please see "Trial of the Mantis Warriors" by C. S. Goto in Legends of the Space Marines released last month.

Once again provide some evidence. Either that or we must agree to disagree.

Necrosis wrote:He is still on the website: http://www.blacklibrary.com/Authors/C-S-Goto.html

Tip: When they tell you to "visit his website", and don't have him listed under:
http://www.blacklibrary.com/Authors

?
Guess what, not employed.


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Manchu wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Manchu wrote:Also: sorry if you don't like Goto (I sympathize, I really do) but they still let him write. Not liking him--or rather him just not being good--is not enough to knock his stuff out of canon.

No, they don't. Any author currently employed by Black Library has a blurb on the website.

He does not

Oops! Usually you're on the ball with this stuff, Kanluwen. Please see "Trial of the Mantis Warriors" by C. S. Goto in Legends of the Space Marines released last month.

And please reread my statement that is on this very same page:

(excluding C.S. Goto, as they're quietly getting rid of all his crap and have already stopped hiring him to do anything. The last thing I can think of is a story he submitted years ago that's being published in an anthology now).

"Trial of the Mantis Warriors" was done quite awhile ago.

Double post.

You know who else you'll see upon clicking "View All"?

Karl Kopinski.

Hey, what's he written?

Oh...nothing, because he's an artist not an author.
You know who else is listed on there?
Adrian Smith!
What's he written again?

They keep the names of anyone who's written anything "readily accessible" if still selling their works, even if the work was written under license to GW/Black Library.

GW is very careful about avoiding potential lawsuits against themselves over IP.

When did he submit "Trial of the Mantis Warriors"? What are these rumors about the Necron fluff? Where do you people get all of this information?

Ian Watson is also on their list and he's written nothing since Inquisition War (right? any story submissions not published in anthologies yet?) so I don't know if it's really a good indication of employment either way. Trouble is, whether Goto is currently getting checks from BL or not his work is still canonical until someone else undoes it.

Manchu wrote:I didn't know Lindsey Priestly filled that role. What does Alan Merrett do then?

Lindsey is, theoretically, in overall charge of the background.

According to the authors I've spoken with, she's been handing it over more and more to Merrett while focusing on the Horus Heresy's background herself.

With the amount of authors involved with the Heresy series now? It'd be stupid not to have two people(at least) collaborating in that regard.

You still can't prove that he is currently not employed. You failed to provide such evidence.


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Manchu wrote:When did he submit "Trial of the Mantis Warriors"? What are these rumors about the Necron fluff? Where do you people get all of this information?

I said rumor, I never said it was a fact. Take all rumors with a grain of salt.

@Necrosis: I didn't mean to imply that you were talking about a fact (hence why I used the word "rumor") but I would still like to know the source of that rumor--does it mean that he's working on a novel or a dex or what?

And to get somewhat back on track, the Siege of Vraks Trilogy is absolutely canonical. What that means for the Sisters is . . . what exactly?