Wraithlord vs Dreadnaught

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**Cheesecat**

I think there should be a third option Deff Dreadz.

**akira5665**

My Dad could beat up your Dad.

Sheesh..... Pathos overwhelming Brain......Trolling...

**Wraithlordmechanic**

Unreal Toast wrote:

Ok well first of all, Fulgrim is a primach and Khiraen is a wraithlord, Khiraen nearly killed a primach and that much is a fact, it is directly written in the novel. now as far as im concerned a Primach can kill a dreadnaught without to much trouble. so by this information it is enough to assume that a wraithlord is tougher then a dreadnaught.

That Goldhelm fellow sounds like an unusually skilled wraithlord (seer council member and what not) how do we know Fulgrim wouldn't have beaten down another wraithlord in his sleep? Your assumption is simply that

Second of all, it is a fact that the wraithlord is armed with more weapons then a dreadnaught excluding the iron clad which has around the same therefore the wraithlord wont be outgunned by the dreadnaught.

Really? a lascannon/ missile launcher dread can pretty reliably kill a WL in two turns. a WL has about a 10% chance of killing a dread in one turn at range.

Third of all The wraithlord is far more flexable and faster then a dreadnaught could ever hope to be, yet another fact.

Flexible? probably. faster? says who? I think once again you are confusing fact with your opinion. That certainly isn't supported by the rules (see below)

And lastly the dreadnaughts centre of ballence is flawed due to the larger upper half of the body in proportion to the bottom meaning that if it looses its ballence and falls, it cant get back up, however if a wraithlord falls, it can get back up. again due to the visable designs of both 'machines' this is fact.

Have you ever seen one in RL? Again not a fact but conjecture.

You are also constantly refering to table top game rules which has no relevance to this thread as if you had read my first post you would notic the words realistic meaning of the table top :/

So please save your armour values as they of no importance when were discussing the outcome should they be real.

The reason I use table top rules here is because they are the closest we have to an objective source of information on these fictional armies. BL books are great but unless the narrator comes out and says that one is better than the other it doesn't count for much unless demonstrated repeatedly. Saying this one time in a book this thing happened does not establish it will happen every time because as often as not it was designed to be a "crowning moment of awesome" where the character overcomes a foe he shouldn't have.

**Guitardian**

Okay math and AV and such aside (which I tested out and got 3/3 for the wraith... sorry wounds vs. AV is a big advantage)), assume they both have superior weapons, armor, and awesomeness. Here's the difference though: Ancient Dread is maybe maybe at most 10,000 years old.... whoop dee doo so is an Eldar exarch. (sheesh, kids these days) Wraithlords can date back to heroes from The Fall when they started using spirit stones, back when mankind was creating fire.

**Wraithlordmechanic**

Guitardian wrote:Okay math and AV and such aside (which I tested out and got 3/3 for the wraith... sorry wounds vs. AV is a big advantage)), assume they both have superior weapons, armor, and awesomeness. Here's the difference though: Ancient Dread is maybe maybe at most 10,000 years old.... whoop dee doo so is an Eldar exarch. (sheesh, kids these days) Wraithlords can date back to heroes from The Fall when they started using spirit stones, back when mankind was creating fire.

There are 2 things to remember here though:
1. when you're that old, your memory isn't what it used to be and sometimes you forget where you are so it's nice to have some psyker fella around to remind you.

2. dreadnoughts are constantly fighting whereas wraithguard and wraithlords are only awakened in times of extreme need since they feel that removing their souls from the infinity circuit is akin to grave robbing. therefore a dreadnought which has existed for only a fraction of the time will have accumulated equal or greater combat experience.

**whatwhat**

Wraithlordmechanic wrote:
Guitardian wrote:Okay math and AV and such aside (which I tested out and got 3/3 for the wraith... sorry wounds vs. AV is a big advantage)), assume they both have superior weapons, armor, and awesomeness. Here's the difference though: Ancient Dread is maybe maybe at most 10,000 years old.... whoop dee doo so is an Eldar exarch. (sheesh, kids these days) Wraithlords can date back to heroes from The Fall when they started using spirit stones, back when mankind was creating fire.

There are 2 things to remember here though:
1. when you're that old, your memory isn't what it used to be and sometimes you forget where you are so it's nice to have some psyker fella around to remind you.

Of course. Wraithlord loses because Wraithlord is senile.

Wraithlordmechanic wrote:Have you ever seen one in RL? Again not a fact but conjecture.

Surely this caps the argument off then? Considering everything but stuff we can see in real life is conjecture I don't see the point in debating who would win. ... or why you've been so eminently arguing over the matter in this thread.

**Wraithlordmechanic**

whatwhat wrote:
Surely this caps the argument off then? Considering everything but stuff we can see in real life is conjecture I don't see the point in debating who would win. ... or why you've been so eminently arguing over the matter in this thread.

Cuz it's fun

In all seriousness I'm not sure why I've jumped headlong into this thread. I'ts kind of silly. The way I see it we're arguing over ice cream flavors. I guess when I hear statements like "a dreadnought couldn't hurt wraithbone" or "the WL could easily kill a dreadnought with his brightlance" I feel like I need point out the sillyness of it.

**Unreal Toast**

Yeah this is getting no where, whatever facts / conjecture that either of us come out with the other will always find an appropriate response that counters it.

Maybe somone should send an e-mail to relic and ask them to animate a fight scene

You gotta admit it would be an interesting fight to watch

**nerdfest09**

Finally we all agree to disagree!

and then it's settled, because you feel you're right, well...you're right, and because i feel i'm right,....i'm right! so we're both right and no one got hurt...yay!

next question?

**whatwhat**

nerdfest09 wrote:next question?

Dreadnaught + Wraithlord vs Ratling + Squig Tag match.

**nerdfest09**

Hmmm tough one whatwhat, are we talking giant squig here? and do they have a herder? and how close is the ratling packing what ammo? also I'll need the lenght of the grass they're fighting on, the current wind speed and relative humidity in the air before i can give my usual accurate answers :-)

**whatwhat**

Well unfortunately the Squig is only knee high to the ratling, who is only carrying a knife.

But on the upside the Wraithlord has an itch.

**Unreal Toast**

Waff loard wheel crush ur puny squidzor lol

No i have no idear what a ratling or a squid is in warhammer.

**nerdfest09**

'squid' lol, now that would be a match, a WL against a giant squid! maybe if someone distracted the Wl with the squig, and threw the ratling at it... just maybe.... very maybe.....absolutely nothing would happen!

**Unreal Toast**

Oh i just saw what i did there, i completely miss read.

Well weather its a squid or a squig i still have no idear what it is lol

**Retribution**

Wraithlordmechanic wrote:
Guitardian wrote:Okay math and AV and such aside (which I tested out and got 3/3 for the wraith... sorry wounds vs. AV is a big advantage)), assume they both have superior weapons, armor, and awesomeness. Here's the difference though: Ancient Dread is maybe maybe at most 10,000 years old.... whoop dee doo so is an Eldar exarch. (sheesh, kids these days) Wraithlords can date back to heroes from The Fall when they started using spirit stones, back when mankind was creating fire.

There are 2 things to remember here though:
1. when you're that old, your memory isn't what it used to be and sometimes you forget where you are so it's nice to have some psyker fella around to remind you.

2. dreadnoughts are constantly fighting whereas wraithguard and wraithlords are only awakened in times of extreme need since they feel that removing their souls from the infinity circuit is akin to grave robbing. therefore a dreadnought which has existed for only a fraction of the time will have accumulated equal or greater combat experience.

What? Dreadnaughts are revered machines from the golden age of man, they're preserved until it's absolutely necessary to use them, in the same vain as Terminators or Landraiders. They are not constantly fighting :\

**nerdfest09**

Google squig it's like a red beach ball with heaps of teeth and an attitude, would be funny if you got some and modelled them eating your eldar! :-)

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Or bringing down a wraithlord! oooh now i'm treading dangerous waters!

**Unreal Toast**

nerdfest09 wrote:Google squig it's like a red beach ball with heaps of teeth and an attitude, would be funny if you got some and modelled them eating your eldar! :-)

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Or bringing down a wraithlord! oooh now i'm treading dangerous waters!

Or i could have a WL holding it in one head and the other hand scratching his head, and then have a question mark above his head.

**nerdfest09**

yep so do that!

**Wraithlordmechanic**

Retribution wrote:
What? Dreadnaughts are revered machines from the golden age of man, they're preserved until it's absolutely necessary to use them, in the same vain as Terminators or Landraiders. They are not constantly fighting :\

That's not supported by the current fluff. And terminators and their rides see just as much action as anyone else.

**Unreal Toast**

It would really suck if you were a dreadnaught and you had an itch on your forehead of something.

Something like that would bug the hell out of me.

**MandalorynOranj**

Haha, dread accidentally punctures it's own sarcophagus trying to scratch an itch, that would definitely be a dread from the Emperor's Pointy Sticks (TSOALR references ftw).

**Guitardian**

I am suddenly envisioning a theme game where each team has a tank zooming around a track in a demolition derby type contest. In the middle of the track is a wrestling ring for all the MC/walkers to tag in and out of. Ork battlewagon + deff dread, marine land raider + dreadnought, eldar falcon + wraithlord and so on... with the stands full of troops from every faction hooting and rioting like a football match. fun fun fun

**Unreal Toast**

I also have a vision of a Wraithlord trying to eat some cake, then realizing it has no mouth but seems to be pushing the cake into its helmet anyway.

**Comintern**

How is this even a debate?

Wraithlord > Dreadnought

Brightlance to the Face can kill a Dreadnought in one shot. Even with a Lascannon, thats 3 rounds of shooting for a Dreadnought. at most, you are talking about an autocannon and being able to potentially do it in 2 rounds. Meanwhile, the Wraithlord potentially killed three Dreadnoughts in the same amount of time.

Close Combat. Again! Wraithlord greater. Wounds, blah blah blah, armor...monstorous creature, 2d6 armor pen, blah blah blah. How is that even an arguement?

Fluff Wise,

I would say their tied. Both have great fluff, but are great looking models and both are ancient warriors of their respective races housed in awesome machines of war. Easily a Tie!

But game wise.
all Wraithlord.

**Guitardian**

Its a debate because it's irrelevant. It's always fun to conjecture about the irrelevant, jettison the superfluous, and be disinclined to acquiesce to another's opinion. It keeps us all having something to do before wurk.

**phantommaster**

whatwhat wrote:Well unfortunately the Squig is only knee high to the ratling, who is only carrying a knife.

But on the upside the Wraithlord has an itch.

An itch cured by rubbing a squig on it

Back on track I think a Dread would win. Don't know why it just would.

**Unreal Toast**

phantommaster wrote:
whatwhat wrote:Well unfortunately the Squig is only knee high to the ratling, who is only carrying a knife.

But on the upside the Wraithlord has an itch.

An itch cured by rubbing a squig on it

Back on track I think a Dread would win. Don't know why it just would.

Well thats hardly a fair arguement lol

And i wasnt aware that wraithlords get itchy, especialy with the lack of skin they have

And the vision of it rubbing a squid on itself made me laugh.

**FUUUUDGE!**

Wraithlord,but the dread would NOT go down without a fight.I mean,the dread would bust up the wraithlord BADLY,but the dreadnought is just to sophisticated,way too many vulnerable parts.Meaning, if the wraithlord were to swing at one of the dreadnoughts legs,not even getting halfway through,it would still be crippled if it broke one o the hydraulics on the legs,crippling a drednought would not be that hard for a wraithlord.if those hydraulics were to brake on one leg,it could come crashing down,insa death.But the wraithlord would be half-dead by then,crushed arms,swiss-=cheesy armor,you get the point.

**Guitardian**

fun fun fun on the playground