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purplefood wrote:Yeah which is why i said marines not 'everybody'.

True, you did and I did agree with you by the way. But I felt compelled to even more fully show how much the IG out numbers the AA after all if the AA has workforce of 1700+ behind the scenes imagine how many the Guard need.

I just dont understand how it is in question at all. The guard have billions and billions of men. THey need it for millions can die in a day. Space marines dont take many casualties at all during missions, for reasons like; power armor, bolt weapons, gene augmentation, extra organs, better personal training. Guard have their natural born grit and their lasgun.

Melissia wrote:

Vaktathi wrote:

Fafnir wrote:There are basically one million guardsmen for every space marine.

Actually, far, far more than that. The various fluff and the newest IG codex gives us "billions" of regiments. Assuming that plural "billions" simply means at most 2 billion (the lowest number that can be classified as multiples of a billion), with an average regiment size being that of the Cadian 8th at 8,000 strong, it means there are 16,000,000,000,000 Guardsmen, or about 1 Space Marine for every 16,000,000 Guardsmen (assuming 1,000 Chapters of 1,000 Space Marines=1 Million Space Marines).

Then, using the SM codex derived equivalency of 1 Space Marine for every ten or twelve other troops (lets use a dozen here just to stay on the side of the SM's, and assuming that is a direct combat ratio not already taking SM's mobility force multipliers into account, even though doing so would make this whole thing seem more realistic in regards to table performance), then that means the massed might of the *entirety* of the Adeptus Astartes represents about 0.000075% of the fighting strength of the Imperial Guard, in other words meaning that the Space Marines as a whole, even if you multiplied their effect by a thousand or even ten thousand, really contribute no meaningful strength to the Imperium that isn't going to be hidden by slight changes in weekly IG recruitment.

See, this is what I meant when I kept saying that the Imperium really could survive if Space Marines suddenly disappeared or were wiped out.

I'm sorry but i could not just stand by with you saying such a thing.. If it werent for Marines then there would not have been a successful Great Crusade, The Imperium Would not have been made, and 40k Universe wouldn't even exist.. I think were all missing something here.. It's called Chaos.. And Chaos will make even the bravest Guardsmen piss his pants.. The Imperium would not survive without SM as it would not survive without the Imperial Guard for the needed man power must be there to hold up all parts of the Imperium.. But with SM comes the Grey Knights.. The only Humans capable of holding their own against deamons and such.. If it werent for the UltraMarines the eastern part of the Imperium would be run over by Nids or Tau.. Without the sacrafice of the entire Astral Knights Chapter the entire Danorra system would be annihalated by Necrons... The entire fluff behind SM have many things like these... Don't get me wrong, i have much respect for guard on the table, but fluff wise not so much.. Guard might be the Hammer but without marines delivering a wounding punch in the enemy, guard would just keep sending more into the meat grinder until finally there will be too much gore for the hammer to swing.. Tabletop wise they do themselves just with their versitile tanks and screaming artillery.. Fluff wise they make it so an average Guardsmen can kill 3 Chaos Marines with just a knife and thats just not to be.. And lets not forget the DeathWatch veterans who hold dangerous Xenos at bay all throughout the Imperium.. So all in all Guard have their uses.. They have their strengths.. And used correctly can take on even the most powerful Marine Armies on the Table.. But in real 40k fluff.. Marines dominate guard..


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I also think Guard is looked down upon becuz they follow orders from their commandersand the high lords of terra, they arn't allowed to make their own plans of attack or where they can go, the average guard's life is practically meaningless to higher powers.. A Marine doesn't have these restrictions or problems.. To a Chapter every Marines life is meaningful.. Even the neophytes lives are held in regard.. Chapters follow their own agendas.. Their own plans.. They donot have to be told what to do by any other power.. They are free..

way back in the day, the circle i was playing in HATED IG. Not because they were bad, but because they were SO DAMN GOOD.You dreaded facing these guys. in particular we had TFG, you know the one who knows the rules to the letter and has WAY more money than you. He kicked a lot of ass, and was respected & feared.

It also sounds like your typical SM fanboy base that is way too caught up with fluff that is meaningless on the table. guard will curbstomp marines under the oppressive weight of their las-boots. end of story