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Why is the Imperial Guard often looked down on? and on top of that most the Space Marine players that I've met over the years think the SM outnumber the Imperial Guard on a galactic scale.
Now anyone that knows fluff knows that's totally the other way around.

I know that there is the sort of joking fued between the Guard and Marines like the US Army and USMC, but it always seems that everyone looks down on the Guard other than the people that Ally with them or Play them.

I'm assuming it's because they're a lot less elite than SM. Perhaps it's because individually they die so quickly. Though at our club, they're not particularly looked down on at all.

Imperial guard have the image of cannon fodder, which is usually not held in high respect. Though Stalin staid that quantity has its own quality.

CommissarCandlestick wrote:I'm assuming it's because they're a lot less elite than SM. Perhaps it's because individually they die so quickly. Though at our club, they're not particularly looked down on at all.

That makes sense but I still wouldn't see why they are looked down on as both a military machine and brave soldiers, I understand the life expectancy portion, but I see the Guardsmen as braver lads than the SMs as they have a flak vest while the Marines have Power Armour.

Field Marshall Terry wrote:... I see the Guardsmen as braver lads than the SMs as they have a flak vest while the Marines have Power Armour.

That's been pointed out in a lot of the Black Library novels. The Guardsmen are looked down on in the fluff because they are so dispossible, they are looked down on in the boardgame because lots of little kiddies love their Space Puppies and Emo-Angels until they see the IG player having to borrow dice from people to roll the number of wounds they are about to inflict on their precious Marines. Yes even with a BS: 3 before considering ordinance the IG are the hardest hitting army in the game.

I always saw IG as utterly hardcore. What's 10 Grey Hunters compared to 55 conscripts?

I love the IG from a fluff standpoint, just a random soldier scared for his life still manning up enough to fight in the face of terror itself (seriously, when you consider some of the gak that the Warp throws out, the statement is quite literal).

The only thing that stops me from collecting an IG army (KRIEG! KRIEG! KRIEG!) is that I just can't get around to painting five million men (especially since I like to spend a long time on each model).

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:I always saw IG as utterly hardcore. What's 10 Grey Hunters compared to 55 conscripts?

Conscripts are pathetic... seriously they will run at anything unless they have a commissar or something similar.

purplefood wrote:

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:I always saw IG as utterly hardcore. What's 10 Grey Hunters compared to 55 conscripts?

Conscripts are pathetic... seriously they will run at anything unless they have a commissar or something similar.

I take it you've never been on the receiving end of a mass of conscripts then? Their pathetic statline is more than reinforced by the hundreds of them trying to kill you.

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:

purplefood wrote:

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:I always saw IG as utterly hardcore. What's 10 Grey Hunters compared to 55 conscripts?

Conscripts are pathetic... seriously they will run at anything unless they have a commissar or something similar.

I take it you've never been on the receiving end of a mass of conscripts then? Their pathetic statline is more than reinforced by the hundreds of them trying to kill you.

Only once when a Lone Wolf charged them before they could fire at anything. They took 2 casualties failed their Ld and were run down. Although the IG player only had the 1 unit of 50 so i suppose having 4+ units of 50 would do a bit more damage... still they are fun.

You've had better luck than I, sir. I doff my hat to you.

Part of the problem is that in the scale of tabletop 40K, the Imperial Guard represent a particular niche. They (by and large) represent a very "baseline" force.

Few armies are judged by their tanks (almost no one goes "Space Marines are very tough because Land Raiders are tough"). The guardsman basically defines the 'average' combatant. The only things weaker than them are the weakest of troops (Grots, etc), and everything else is distinguished by how it exceeds the Imperial Guardsman (Eldar aren't stronger, but they are faster, and more skillful, etc. Orks aren't faster, but they are tougher, etc.).

The most impressive warmaking capacities of the Imperial Guard simply don't get seen on the 40K tabletop (in Warhammer 40K, at least). You aren't going to see artillery lobbing shells from kilometers away pounding an entire city into rubble. You aren't going to see thousands (or tens of thousands) of troops deployed at once. You aren't going to see massive regiments of super-heavy tanks grinding across a battlefront. The aspect of the Guard you do see in the game is small squad/company based actions, where the individual guardsmen are simply not impressive.

Similarly, the Imperial Navy almost certainly kills more of the enemy than the Imperial Guard, Titan Legions, and Astartes combined, but they hardly even are mentioned in the Warhammer 40K tabletop game. Sure, their orbital bombardments can simply destroy all life on a planet, but that doesn't make the lone Naval Officer in your Guard force look impressive.

I think they are looked down on because the marines see them as less loyal (*caugh*caugh* Horus Heresy) and disposable. But like its been pointed out many times, Guardsmen are regular men in a galaxy of super human warriors and alien terrors. Yet we still stand there smiling with our flak armor and flash lights

They are looked down upon because they smoke lho sticks.

They're not looked down upon where I play in game or in fluff. We love the guard

Fluff: I don't think they are looked down upon. They are glorified so that the average Joe Citizen doesn't mind as much when he gets "The Letter."

Tabletop: Lolwhut?

IG are one of the more brutal armies out there when played correctly.

Da Butcha wrote:Part of the problem is that in the scale of tabletop 40K, the Imperial Guard represent a particular niche. They (by and large) represent a very "baseline" force.

Few armies are judged by their tanks (almost no one goes "Space Marines are very tough because Land Raiders are tough"). The guardsman basically defines the 'average' combatant. The only things weaker than them are the weakest of troops (Grots, etc), and everything else is distinguished by how it exceeds the Imperial Guardsman (Eldar aren't stronger, but they are faster, and more skillful, etc. Orks aren't faster, but they are tougher, etc.).

The most impressive warmaking capacities of the Imperial Guard simply don't get seen on the 40K tabletop (in Warhammer 40K, at least). You aren't going to see artillery lobbing shells from kilometers away pounding an entire city into rubble. You aren't going to see thousands (or tens of thousands) of troops deployed at once. You aren't going to see massive regiments of super-heavy tanks grinding across a battlefront. The aspect of the Guard you do see in the game is small squad/company based actions, where the individual guardsmen are simply not impressive.

Similarly, the Imperial Navy almost certainly kills more of the enemy than the Imperial Guard, Titan Legions, and Astartes combined, but they hardly even are mentioned in the Warhammer 40K tabletop game. Sure, their orbital bombardments can simply destroy all life on a planet, but that doesn't make the lone Naval Officer in your Guard force look impressive.

That pretty much answers my question, someone mentioned something about Space Marines earlier, we have a few SM players at our store that are constantly giving both myself and a friend of mine crap for playing Guard, everytime we try to explain to them the significance both in Fluff and Tabletop (customization/colour schemes whatever) they act as if we're stupid because we don't play Space Marines.

I just wondered if it's like that at other places and why people think that. I guess in the big picture yeah, Guard are weak but it just bugs the crap out of me when I see people rip Guard for not being up to par on what they expect from a Space Marine.

Tabletop: Lolwhut?

IG are one of the more brutal armies out there when played correctly.

It's all in the orders baby... "I'm going to issue ULTRA SHOOTY LAZOR OF DEATH to this 50 man Conscript unit here, all their weapons are now Assault 2, twin linked, and your Armor is now a 6+. Yay! It passed..."

Field Marshall Terry wrote:

Da Butcha wrote:Part of the problem is that in the scale of tabletop 40K, the Imperial Guard represent a particular niche. They (by and large) represent a very "baseline" force.

Few armies are judged by their tanks (almost no one goes "Space Marines are very tough because Land Raiders are tough"). The guardsman basically defines the 'average' combatant. The only things weaker than them are the weakest of troops (Grots, etc), and everything else is distinguished by how it exceeds the Imperial Guardsman (Eldar aren't stronger, but they are faster, and more skillful, etc. Orks aren't faster, but they are tougher, etc.).

The most impressive warmaking capacities of the Imperial Guard simply don't get seen on the 40K tabletop (in Warhammer 40K, at least). You aren't going to see artillery lobbing shells from kilometers away pounding an entire city into rubble. You aren't going to see thousands (or tens of thousands) of troops deployed at once. You aren't going to see massive regiments of super-heavy tanks grinding across a battlefront. The aspect of the Guard you do see in the game is small squad/company based actions, where the individual guardsmen are simply not impressive.

Similarly, the Imperial Navy almost certainly kills more of the enemy than the Imperial Guard, Titan Legions, and Astartes combined, but they hardly even are mentioned in the Warhammer 40K tabletop game. Sure, their orbital bombardments can simply destroy all life on a planet, but that doesn't make the lone Naval Officer in your Guard force look impressive.

That pretty much answers my question, someone mentioned something about Space Marines earlier, we have a few SM players at our store that are constantly giving both myself and a friend of mine crap for playing Guard, everytime we try to explain to them the significance both in Fluff and Tabletop (customization/colour schemes whatever) they act as if we're stupid because we don't play Space Marines.

I just wondered if it's like that at other places and why people think that. I guess in the big picture yeah, Guard are weak but it just bugs the crap out of me when I see people rip Guard for not being up to par on what they expect from a Space Marine.

Use your IG to rain heavy fire down upon the SM, they will stop talking as by turn 3 they have nothing on the board. SM don't hold up well when they roll fist full of dice for there armor saves. IG can table any army if you build the list right, now I'm no where near a WAAC player, but SM player need to be knocked down a page every so othen.

I didn't realised they were looked down upon I know everyone takes the piss out of the maglites they use as weapons but no one like 30 of them rapid firing 3 shots each with orders at their squads.

Anyone that thinks SM outnumber IG is just ignorant of the fluff.

Must be a local thing. Probably pretty young players, too. IG far surpass SMs in numbers- the Imperium can throw millions at them into a battle front. However, a SM chaper is an elite strike force. Think scalpel and hammer.

Individual bravery is apples and oranges. SM are genetically engineered super soldiers with a faith that borders on fanaticism. IG can range from unfailingly loyal, to traitorous cowards serving only under threat of execution.

On the table top, both can be brutal, or incompetent. Anyone who does not respect the potential threat of either is a fool.

In the fluff the Imperial Guard does the majority of fighting.
Space Marines post-heresy launch raids and decapitate enemy leadership,before that they were the sledgehammer in the Great Crusade.
Besides the IG has awesome super-heavy tanks.

Why is the Imperial Guard often looked down on?

Some people likes heroes , and SM are certainly portrayed as a whole army full of heroes

and on top of that most the Space Marine players that I've met over the years think the SM outnumber the Imperial Guard on a galactic scale.

A good explanation might be , they are subconsciously judged it via the number of SM players they bump into T-T

I know that there is the sort of joking fued between the Guard and Marines like the US Army and USMC, but it always seems that everyone looks down on the Guard other than the people that Ally with them or Play them.

This is true , but i see it as maturity level. Ever see those starcraft terran marine vs GW space marine threads? , it display the same type of mentality.

I look down on the space marines, not the guard. Not just because I play Guard, I hate space marines.

if they say a space marine is worth a hundred guards, let them fight eachother

a space marine vs 100 guardsmen.

...

Lets see who 'll win.

Monster Rain wrote:IG are one of the more brutal armies out there when played correctly.

Yep so true, just remember to never get army list ideas from WD battle reports. back when the eye of terror codex came out my local GW did a comp to see which army could last the longest against and army of plague zombies, guard won hands down, its the 50+ shots per troop choice that does it.

I play relictors not because space marines are better but because i like the chapter's (well the remnants of it) fluff and i can't bear to buy and paint the models needed for a single guard troop choice let alone an army.

..No..No one does that unless they have absolutely no idea what they're talking about.

Most of the forces in the 40K universe are Space Marines.

They have an average height of about 10 feet, so naturally they look down on IG who are under six feet.

Kilkrazy wrote:Most of the forces in the 40K universe are Space Marines.

They have an average height of about 10 feet, so naturally they look down on IG who are under six feet.

I see what you did there

Besides... Leman Russes, people. Find me a more awesome utility tank. Seriously, if there is one in 40K, then I will immediately begin preparations to play that army.

Land Raider is a good one.

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:Besides... Leman Russes, people. Find me a more awesome utility tank. Seriously, if there is one in 40K, then I will immediately begin preparations to play that army.

True I was thinking hammerhead...But NO, obviously not