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JOHIRA wrote:

kirsanth wrote:Agreeing to allow 5 extra points is the same as agreeing to play a game with a different point total.

Only if you insist both players' armies be at the same point value.

Not true at all in the quote you grabbed. Otherwise, I do tend to assume that the game is agreed to be the same value for both players. However here I have rather been simply pointing out the variance.
If you agree to play with 1500 vs 2000 and allow 5 points extra, that is agreeing to playing 1505 vs 2005. Which is what I wrote. I am not sure what confused you in that-or what brought that up.

JOHIRA wrote:And why does that matter?

Scroll up, it was in the same post.

kirsanth wrote:I am still wondering why more people do not simply agree to playing 2005 point games, when it is obviously so difficult for them (or their opponent) to build a 2000 point list.

I do not think it does.
editing to add:
We somewhat regularly challenge others in our gaming group to odd point cost games. If by some lark, I create a really interesting list for killing Space Wolves that comes out to 1643 points when throwing it together, I am inclined to ask a Space Wolves player I know to play me with their own 1643 list built to play Tyranids.

That said, I would tell him to make a new list if he showed up with 1644 after agreeing to the game.

Wow, it seems like people are Really more points anal than my friends and I are. The going over usualy happens when you are like 40-50 points under the limit and add an extra squad or vehicle to get it up to it.

Under 20 with a "Hey I am over, is that cool?" is fine with me. That just means i upgrade some wargear to compensate.

Personally for our games I allow up to 5pts over, but only if it's not avoidable. By that I mean if you have 1500pts and want that 5pt upgrade, ya can't have it unless you rework your list

kirsanth wrote:If you agree to play with 1500 vs 2000 and allow 5 points extra, that is agreeing to playing 1505 vs 2005. Which is what I wrote. I am not sure what confused you in that-or what brought that up.

And if that is acceptable, why does it ruin the game to agree at the last minute to play 1510 vs. 2005?

JOHIRA wrote:

kirsanth wrote:If you agree to play with 1500 vs 2000 and allow 5 points extra, that is agreeing to playing 1505 vs 2005. Which is what I wrote. I am not sure what confused you in that-or what brought that up.

And if that is acceptable, why does it ruin the game to agree at the last minute to play 1510 vs. 2005?

Would you rather read the text I posted already or have me quote it back for you?

Here is the quick and dirty answer that skips some details, but it seems that would only help in this case. . .

kirsanth wrote:The problem is that by (deliberately) going past the agreed upon value, and then informing your opponent that he should take an extra xxx points is being . . . shady at best.

If you are making lists together (or at the table anyway) it does not have to be a matter of "going over" so much as having a floating value that you both aim for. "Let's go 1500. . .hmmm, I cannot seem to figure out how to remove an upgrade instead of a model so I am at 1505--want to play that instead?" is more than acceptable most anywhere I have seen.

If the lists were pre-generated it will (generally) be much harder for your opponent to get use from the extra points that you (deliberately abused your agreement to) generate your list around from the start.

So be a sport and honor your agreement.

Now let me ask you, why would it ruin the game to play by the rules you agreed to follow?

I don't allow opponents to be over at all. Unless it's a child or really new player kind of fumbling with their army list due to a combination of inexperience and limited model selection.

It depends on the player and the circumstance.

Against a mate who I know builds list for fun more than anything, I'm fine with them going over because I know it's to make a list more interesting, not more powerful. A little while back a mate asked me if he could go ten points over, because he wanted to include a full strength unit of Possessed. Alright, I said, but only if I can take a fourth heavy option, because I had twenty spare points and a freshly painted grot kannon...

Against a guy who I know is focusing on a more powerful list, I wouldn't be lenient.

kirsanth wrote:

JOHIRA wrote:And if that is acceptable, why does it ruin the game to agree at the last minute to play 1510 vs. 2005?

Here is the quick and dirty answer that skips some details, but it seems that would only help in this case. . .[snipped]

That didn't really answer my question, you just presumed a very particular mindset for a problem that can come up for a variety of reasons.

But don't think I'm personally getting after you about this. I'm fishing for an answer as to why this matters to anyone. It seems a sizable portion of posters on this thread are ready to declare that the way they play with their dollies is the only acceptable way to play with dollies, and anyone who doesn't follow their rules is a dirty rotten cheater, even if they're playing dollies with someone completely different. There have even been several posters apparently so passionate about their chosen way to play with dollies that they don't even want to permit other opinions about how to play with dollies to even be discussed in this thread- there has been more than one request to lock it.

Now let me ask you, why would it ruin the game to play by the rules you agreed to follow?

I didn't say it would.

JOHIRA wrote:why this matters to anyone.

The only people it matters to are you and your opponent. No one else on the planet gives a what you do in a game.

If you assume that it doesn't matter you are in for a lot more issue getting a game than if you assume it does.
If you know that your opponent does not care, then man up and admit you are playing a higher cost game.


As an odd thought, posting a battle report for a "2000 point game" where (one of) the players have 2001 or more points makes it look like you just can't count or someone was cheating.

Editing to add:
The main reason people are saying playing at or below the point value they agreed to in a game matters is because the OP actually asked.
/shrug

If it were a competitive game, its a no no. But if we are playing a friendly game, they can be as many points over as they want, only if i get to match that.

rodt777 wrote:Hello Dakka, I was wondering how many points you allow your opponent to be. For instance, if you're a 1500pt game and someone brings a 1508 list, do you allow it? Maybe if they let you have 8 extra points? How does this differ in a tournament setting? Thank you!

Some people, really good friends, it doesnt matter much. anything under 10, although up to 50 is cool.

Random people I dont really know or know that well? 3-4 points. Anything over 5 you can drop a piece of wargear....

I allow under 2 since over 2 pts usually means some piece of wargear. But in tournaments and competitive situations where you prepare your list before, i wouldn't allow a point

Zero for the group that I play within, and that goes for pickup games we play as well. Seems a bit tight maybe, but I/we do allow opponants and ourselves to be under by as many points as you want. For us it all comes down to being realistic and losing that couple of points somewhere to make it fit, you can't always have everything you want. Mostly it's between 1 and 3 points under, for example.



Couldn't be bothered to read the whole thread and give argument on cases brough previosly.

kirsanth wrote:If you know that your opponent does not care, then man up and admit you are playing a higher cost game.

Yay, and now we've reached the point in the thread where people who don't play with their mandollies in the correct way are not just cheaters, they are insufficiently manly cheaters.

JOHIRA wrote:

kirsanth wrote:If you know that your opponent does not care, then man up and admit you are playing a higher cost game.

Yay, and now we've reached the point in the thread where people who don't play with their mandollies in the correct way are not just cheaters, they are insufficiently manly cheaters.

Lol.

I know that being over the points limit is a pretty easy to measure form of rules violation, but even being five points over is less of an advantage than a single one inch fudge. I'd much rather get to the game than worry about a few points.

I have to admit that I think folks willing to break their agreements over their self-proclaimed space barbies to be a challenge to game with.
When those -rules- are broken before the game starts it makes it less likely to occur.

When I play my necrons, I always seem to be exactly three points over. If this is a problem for my opponent, I'll take out a warrior. If it's not, that's cool too.

I don't really care. I once tabled my TFG who i found had taken 200+ more points than me and bought plenty of illegal upgrades. Didn't stop me from whooping his butt

Anyways, I never go over. I don't go to a gaming store without a proper list. Will I let you do it? eh. most of the time. I'm not going to get anal on you, but if you consistently do it.. wtf
Especially with marines. it's pretty much all 5's and 10s. how the bloody hell do you manage to go over points with that?!?

If my opponent in a friendly game is over the limit, I just change the limit. If we said we would play a 1500 point game, and they've got 1531 because the miscalculated, I just change it to a 1531 point limit and put something new in my list. After all, it's a friendly game.

Id say 5-10. If its closer to 10 though, I like to look at there list to see if they are giving someone and extra power weapon that could be lost to get the points total down....but then again, im not overly competative about the game....im playing to have fun

We have a general rule at the 2 gaming clubs I attend which is simple 1 point per 500. so for a 500pt game 1 point over, 1000pt 2 points over etc etc

Works pretty well for us

CT GAMER wrote:
2001 point lists

My God...

It's full of Spam!

I never go over. Most of my CSM lists are somewhere between one and four points below the limit due to Berzerkers refusing to cost a multiple of five. I print out all of my lists before I go the FLGS, and bring copies for pretty much every multiple of 250 starting with five hundred.

My response to an opponent being over varies. Is it a little kid or someone with an extremely limited model collection? In that case, I'm cool with some variance. I'd also include older codexes that lack easy numbers. With a space marine player, I'd probably ask that they drop a five-point upgrade somewhere. I've got options with my chaos to add points (Havoc Launchers, melta bombs, changing special weapons, etc), but I generally prefer to just play at the point limit we agreed to.

Makenshi wrote:We have a general rule at the 2 gaming clubs I attend which is simple 1 point per 500. so for a 500pt game 1 point over, 1000pt 2 points over etc etc

Works pretty well for us

So why don't you simply allow the following lists:

501
1002
1503
2004

Instead of:
500
1000
1500
2000

It makes zero sense.

imweasel wrote:It makes zero sense.

Does it?

I think making a fuss over the difference between officially calling for a 501 point list, and allowing someone to play a 501 point list despite agreeing to a 500 point game makes zero sense.

JOHIRA, in that case, why not alllow 502 points? You still have a hard limit on points; it's just one point different to the hard limit that you say you have. Why not just be honest, and say "501 points; no points over"?

You can have 0 dollars or 1 dollar, which would you prefer? Seeing as how it evidently makes no difference, I'll take 1 please. 1 point is the difference between a lasgun and a bolter for the IG.

I have to say, I usually allow people in friendly matches to be up to 1% over (as I usually play 1000 point games, that's 10 points).

Ian Sturrock wrote:JOHIRA, in that case, why not alllow 502 points?

Indeed, why not?

Why not just be honest, and say "501 points; no points over"?

I find it absurd that this keeps being treated as an issue of honesty.

4pts over is OK in a friendly game.

No more.

Ever.