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dayve110 wrote:As far as the list error, Mistakes are made. An advantage of list submission ahead of time is that the lists can be checked for errors.

The Alamo had advance list submissions. The judges didn't catch his error either.

Seems that everyone is ignoring this so I figure I would quote and repost.

gorium wrote:Guys... DoP has been banned from this forum, he won't be able to answer to anyone here. No point in carrying on the conversation.

Those that support him, he can still be found online on a blog. The others, don't be haters, you just got schooled, hehe.

Banned or temp banned? I think temp bans can go up to a month.

I'd like to know the details of the ban. If it's temporary... I guess that's okay but I don't think deserved.

If it's permanent, well that's some bs.

Dash has contributed more to this site than most anyone, and I and all of my friends have learned 100x more than him than from anyone else as well. A true competitive player that makes great lists, responds to PM's, and writes the best battle reports and most detailed guides all for the sake of the reader.

Skelly wrote:I'd like to know the details of the ban. If it's temporary... I guess that's okay but I don't think deserved.

If it's permanent, well that's some bs.

Dash has contributed more to this site than most anyone, and I and all of my friends have learned 100x more than him than from anyone else as well. A true competitive player that makes great lists, responds to PM's, and writes the best battle reports and most detailed guides all for the sake of the reader.

Skelly wrote:I'd like to know the details of the ban. If it's temporary... I guess that's okay but I don't think deserved.

If it's permanent, well that's some bs.

Dash has contributed more to this site than most anyone, and I and all of my friends have learned 100x more than him than from anyone else as well. A true competitive player that makes great lists, responds to PM's, and writes the best battle reports and most detailed guides all for the sake of the reader.

Agreed. He probably doesn't have any more interest in coming back but he's helped so much here. Helped me personally improve my game bunches. He's even taken the time to help me with armies he doesn't play. Sad day..

For those of you wishing to chat with Dashofpepper, he's joined Hulksmash's blog - his future batreps and tactical articles will be going up there. You can check out his introductory article here:

http://hulksmash-homeplace.blogspot.com/2011/05/dashofpepper-and-hulksmash-join-forces.html#comments

We have a policy of not divulging the details of any user's moderation in consideration of the user. The speculation in this case is pretty well pointless as you all know of a venue whereby you may currently contact DashofPepper.

carmachu wrote:

Grimgob wrote:Wasn't the young guy who just won one of the golf opens DQ'd for having one too many golf clubs in his bag even though he didnt use it (he honestly thought he took it out but was DQ'd anyways).

http://www.pga.com/news/other-tour/teen-golfer-disqualifies-himself-gives-medal-in-wisconsin-junior-event




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Night's Blood wrote:Arguing about the fact that his list was "illegal" is ridiculous. If you never once used the item in question then technically you are playing with a handicap, as you spent points you never could use. I could give my Archon a flickerfield upgrade, but due to the fact that i can't use a vehicle upgrade on an infantry unit, those 10 points are effectively wasted.

It shouldn't if happened, obviously, but the realist in me cannot accept a handicap as reason for expulsion.

Please tell me, is there a seperate catagory for lists that is not legal or illegal? A "its illegal but i didnt use it anyway" catagory?

No, but the appropriate reaction was to remove the item from the list. This, as you know, was done.

I ask you, what would you have done?

Pointless post removed.

Please read the forum posting rules.


Reds8n

A Moderator wrote:I want to remind everyone that adverse comments about absent members are not allowed.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Brother Ramses wrote:

dayve110 wrote:As far as the list error, Mistakes are made. An advantage of list submission ahead of time is that the lists can be checked for errors.

The Alamo had advance list submissions. The judges didn't catch his error either.

Seems that everyone is ignoring this so I figure I would quote and repost.

As posted by the article, above, the golf officals didnt catch the extra club either. Doesnt make it right however.

At this point, this discussion seems moot; for one, Dash is not present on these forums, and is unable to participate in this discussion.

On top of that, the event is done and over with. Nobody, neither Dash, his opponents (one of which played DE himself), or the tournament officials caught the mistake. Talking about it now will not influence anything and serves only to smear his reputation and, in my honest opinion, just proves his point about how ridiculous and vicious the drama on these forums are.

Thirdly, Dash admitted the mistake, and explained that it had no bearing on any of his games. I believe it was an honest mistake; believe it or not, people are not perfect, and sometimes they miss things. That goes for the TO who approved the list as well. Seeing as it had no effect on his games, and at harshest, probably would have simply been removed anyway had anyone noticed, making a huge stink about it after it's far too late to do anything about it but learn from it is pointless. Even if they could retroactively DQ him, it's not like he has the prize support he won.

This is a case of people taking their warhammers too srsly. Really. Warhammer 40k tournaments are not the same as golf tournaments. This kind of internet drama just reflects badly on the community, and crops up way too frequently, I think. We really should just try to enjoy this stupid hobby and get along.

Hi

Interesting reports, drama and all.

Thanks for all the pics. I have wanted to do the same, but it just never works out for me (I get lost in the match and forget). Are there any tips you have for being disciplined about this?

Finally, Holy Crap Batman - those are the emptiest tables I have every seen at a big tourney!

EDIT: I just saw that Dash has been banned - I'll have to go find his blog then concerning my questions.

Cheers,
Nate

carmachu wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Brother Ramses wrote:

dayve110 wrote:As far as the list error, Mistakes are made. An advantage of list submission ahead of time is that the lists can be checked for errors.

The Alamo had advance list submissions. The judges didn't catch his error either.

Seems that everyone is ignoring this so I figure I would quote and repost.

As posted by the article, above, the golf officals didnt catch the extra club either. Doesnt make it right however.

Which is the specific action taken by the golf officials.

Now how does how they responded to the extra club anyway related to how the Alamo GT officials have responded? I have seen posts from them, but nothing on this issue. The tourney results have not been changed to reflect a ruling by them.

Maybe, just maybe, in their opinion they see that this matter does not warrant anything at all because it was moot.

Night's Blood wrote:

No, but the appropriate reaction was to remove the item from the list. This, as you know, was done.

I ask you, what would you have done?

That is mostly incorrect. Thats is one of a variety of things they could do.

That was NOT done, as a matter of fact. Judges missed it. He missed it. Item wasnt USED, it wasnt removed until after he got home. Approriate would be any of the following:

1) removed item, let him keep playing

2) removed item, docked him points, let him keep playing

3) removed item, let him play, DQ'd him from actually winning any prizes.

4)DQ'd him immediately, removed him from play.

5) Do nothing.

ALL of them would be approriate responses by Tournment organizers. Any of them would

carmachu wrote:

Night's Blood wrote:

No, but the appropriate reaction was to remove the item from the list. This, as you know, was done.

I ask you, what would you have done?

That is mostly incorrect. Thats is one of a variety of things they could do.

That was NOT done, as a matter of fact. Judges missed it. He missed it. Item wasnt USED, it wasnt removed until after he got home. Approriate would be any of the following:

1) removed item, let him keep playing

2) removed item, docked him points, let him keep playing

3) removed item, let him play, DQ'd him from actually winning any prizes.

4)DQ'd him immediately, removed him from play.

5) Do nothing.

ALL of them would be approriate responses by Tournment organizers. Any of them would

Or like what they have appeared to do now which is see that it affected nothing, no need to adjust the tournament results, and let it just die off as it is a moot point.

Brother Ramses wrote:

Or like what they have appeared to do now which is see that it affected nothing, no need to adjust the tournament results, and let it just die off as it is a moot point.

If thats what the TO's wish to do, thats fine. Its YOU and Dash and others who are rationalizing that "its no big deal" thats the issue. You cant just blow it off as "I didnt use it."

carmachu wrote:

Brother Ramses wrote:

Or like what they have appeared to do now which is see that it affected nothing, no need to adjust the tournament results, and let it just die off as it is a moot point.

If thats what the TO's wish to do, thats fine. Its YOU and Dash and others who are rationalizing that "its no big deal" thats the issue. You cant just blow it off as "I didnt use it."

Yea well, they can actually. Just as you can go on about that being a big deal, they can go on with their lives not caring the slightest.

I'd proffer in no other sport would this reach the level of anything. At worst there would have been some minor penalty if used.

Frazzled wrote:I'd proffer in no other sport would this reach the level of anything. At worst there would have been some minor penalty if used.

What's your basis for this comment? "Most other sports" have very strict regulations with paid officials enforcing them. If the 13th football player's toe is over the sideline, then not only will the officials call a do-over, they'll apply a penalty against the offending team.

Exactly, like in basketball where there are strict regulations and officials are paid by bookies to enforce some of them!

As opposed to 40k, where there are vague guidelines and nobody is paid to enforce any of them.

Frazzled wrote:

I'd proffer in no other sport would this reach the level of anything. At worst there would have been some minor penalty if used.

Then frankly your a fool. There are plenty of examples of DQ and other fines and such for folks cheating. NE coach got caught video taping otehr teams practices (article 9 of the NFL rules), Belicheck fined, team fined, loss of a first round draft pick. Golfer unintentionally brings ,an extra club, DQ'd, when he voluntarily admits it.

there are a host of ways folks get punished from a slap on the wrist to forfeiting all around various sports. Only folks like yourself try and poo poo it away. Its not like its a N00B mistake.

carmachu wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

I'd proffer in no other sport would this reach the level of anything. At worst there would have been some minor penalty if used.

Then frankly your a fool. There are plenty of examples of DQ and other fines and such for folks cheating. NE coach got caught video taping otehr teams practices (article 9 of the NFL rules), Belicheck fined, team fined, loss of a first round draft pick. Golfer unintentionally brings ,an extra club, DQ'd, when he voluntarily admits it.

This is the problem with these discussions. Something is amiss and people starting screaming "cheater."
You're equating major strategy examples with chickenshit. The comparison makes baby Jebus sad.

there are a host of ways folks get punished from a slap on the wrist to forfeiting all around various sports. Only folks like yourself try and poo poo it away. Its not like its a N00B mistake.

Thats my point. This is a slap on the wrist. No ever forfeits a game or a win on minor trivialities. Your're going from Zero to OMGCHEATERSMOTEHIM in 3.4 seconds. About a 9 on the tension scale.

I would like to point out that while going over points may not affect the game much, some times it does by quite a bit. You all say that that piece of wargear makes up the extra points, but how do you know. Mabye that extra point cost I interpret as an extra blaster he should not have bought. You cant claim that because one piece isnt used it was the irrelivant piece. Say I went over to buy my space marine captain an andamantite cloak or whatever so he wouldnt insta die. Say he never got attacked through the whole tourney, does it still not matter.

Heres another thing where it may have changed the game. Say I was 10 points over on my tau to buy a flachette discharger on my hammerhead. Now an ork boyz unit in one game specifically dident charge my hammerhead because he feared losing 10-15 guys on the charge, and that cost him big in the match. Sure it was never there, but the psychological impact of it being there changed the game.

If you have extra points you should have to play under points, even if it drops you 20 or 30 just to be able to make the cut. There shouldnt be any excuse to be over points.

He wasn't over points though. He was actually still under. The problem was having 3 arcane wargear items with a limit of 2. And according to the batreps it never got used. It's a little different than going over in points. Just clarifying. Wouldn't bother me if I'd played him, but also wouldnt' bother me if he got DQ'd after the fact.

But Dash wasnt over points.
He just accidentely added a piece of wargear (that the judges didnt notice) that was illegal and never used.
EDIT: lol ninja'd by Hulksmash

Frazzled wrote:

carmachu wrote:
there are a host of ways folks get punished from a slap on the wrist to forfeiting all around various sports. Only folks like yourself try and poo poo it away. Its not like its a N00B mistake.

Thats my point. This is a slap on the wrist. No ever forfeits a game or a win on minor trivialities. Your're going from Zero to OMGCHEATERSMOTEHIM in 3.4 seconds. About a 9 on the tension scale.

Not sure where you're going here frazzled. There was no slap on the wrist, there was nothing. And as he was saying, there are a whole spectrum of examples, FROM a slap on the wrist, to forfeiting entirely, in sports. It's generally forfeiting/dq'ing entirely, and not slaps on the wrist, as per the golfer example. He made a minor error, admitted it, and got dq'd. The rules are the rules, an illegal list is an illegal list. Once this was noticed, if you followed the majority of examples in sports, you'd have DQ'd dash and stripped his title.

I'm not saying thats the right response, but I think characterizing it as "OMGCRAZY" and a "9 on the tension scale" is far fetched. It's more the norm then anything.

targetawg wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

carmachu wrote:
there are a host of ways folks get punished from a slap on the wrist to forfeiting all around various sports. Only folks like yourself try and poo poo it away. Its not like its a N00B mistake.

Thats my point. This is a slap on the wrist. No ever forfeits a game or a win on minor trivialities. Your're going from Zero to OMGCHEATERSMOTEHIM in 3.4 seconds. About a 9 on the tension scale.

Not sure where you're going here frazzled. There was no slap on the wrist, there was nothing. And as he was saying, there are a whole spectrum of examples, FROM a slap on the wrist, to forfeiting entirely, in sports. It's generally forfeiting/dq'ing entirely, and not slaps on the wrist, as per the golfer example. He made a minor error, admitted it, and got dq'd. The rules are the rules, an illegal list is an illegal list. Once this was noticed, if you followed the majority of examples in sports, you'd have DQ'd dash and stripped his title.

I'm not saying thats the right response, but I think characterizing it as "OMGCRAZY" and a "9 on the tension scale" is far fetched. It's more the norm then anything.

If I obliterate your quarterback illegally at most I get a 15 yard penalty. The team doesn't get disqualified. You're talking about disqualifying the team because they brought unapproved gym socks and left them on the sideline. Nonsense.
Please show me the majority of sports that support this. I'd proffer you're absolutely full of histrionic bs at this point.

I really think people are getting overly worked up about the extra Animus Vitae. It's an item that only benefits a unit in close combat that was in an army with no units that want to be in close combat. The item itself actually does nothing to increase the combat effectiveness of the model carrying it. All it does is allow the model carrying it to generate more pain tokens as it kills models in close combat. Once again, it's on a model that is configured to not be in close combat in an army that strives to avoid close combat.

Yes, I understand that illegal builds need to be examined. However, I do not believe that an illegal build should automatically be some sort of disqualification. The sanction should be in direct proportion to the effect the illegal build has on the game.

In this case, I believe that people running the tournament made the right decision. The illegal wargear item had zero effect on any of the games, thus resulting in zero sanction.