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Whats all this talk about Jedi and thier fancy Force powers. Don't Tyranid's have zoantrophes that use Warp powers? Why not debate on how Warp energies rip apart or hypermutate its victims? Plus, the Nids can mass produce them while the Jedi take a long time to train and are rare.

Somewhere in this thread (lazy to quote) soembody said the Warp doesn't exist in the SW universe, now that Nids have Zoantrophes, the Warp has to exist in the SW universe.

Conservationist wrote:
Somewhere in this thread (lazy to quote) soembody said the Warp doesn't exist in the SW universe, now that Nids have Zoantrophes, the Warp has to exist in the SW universe.

In other words...


the 'Nid equivalent to the Sun Crusher is to detonate a whole lot of Zoanthropes in the same place, creating a new Eye of Terror! They learned from Dominus Astra!

My word, the Nids sure learn fast! Coruscant and and all nearby planets would be turned into crone worlds! Excellent.

Nerivant wrote:

coolyo294 wrote:

Nerivant wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:the spores would just float through the shield. solid objects arn't hindered(as shown by the Droids in Phantom) by shields.

Except that there are multiple occurrences of shields stopping solid matter like meteors and asteroids.

IIRC, there are two types of shields. One type, stops ladies and the other type blocks meteors and other solid debris.

Yep. The shields used by ships and planets (particle shields?) are the ones that do the asteroid blocking, though.

Yes. Particle shields are absolutely necessary for ships and is usually standard on an industrial world, or a middle class one. They deflect solid matter, bur don't hinder energy weapons at all.

Energy shields are the invert. They block energy, but aren't effective against solid matter.

Brother Coa wrote:

Emperors Faithful wrote: there are millions of clones in the fighting.

That's not completely true, there are only few million colones in war. It was said in "Clone Wars" season 3, when they argue in the senate to make a few million more. They barely agree to that.

The initial batch for The Grand Army was 200,000 clones. There were more than a million produced after that. The most Clones in service at any given time could not have exceeded 2,100,000. The Clone Wars series is not what I like to quote. The get all the info jumbled up.

Ratbarf wrote:

The Tyranid forces are probably less fragile than droids and clones, however.

I wouldn't think so, as they seem to break whenever they get pushed over by Obi-Wan or some other Jedi.

That, however, is pushing the bar, so I'm going to say 10,000,000,000,000 (Quadrillion, and that seems ludicrous.)

In the Republic Commando novels it is stated as such by Palpatine, but either one of the ARCS or Skirata notes that to create such a force you would literally have to strip systems clean of resources, and they would have been able to very easily swamp the roughly 3 million clones that comprise the Grand Army of the Republic.

Honestly 3 million is a bogus number though to fight a galactic conflict. Poland in World War 2 with a population of 20 million managed to field about 2 million. Any planet with a medium population would be able to resist the entire Republican Army unless they felt like committing exterminatus on their butts.

I meant that Tyranids were more durable.

The Clones made up their small numbers with elite training and Jango's DNA, his family being a long line of Mandolorians. Hell, Boba becomes Mandalore. That's how the managed their slow victory.

My numbers included droid for the fleet and private guards as well, not all of them were front-liners. Like I said, even I think that it's a rather exaggerated number.

I've yet to see droids or clones with Regeneration. So yeah, nids be more durable.

I'd also like to see a Jedi's repsonse to a Hive Tyrant that paroxysms his butt.

Not to mention the effects of the other available warp powers.

the trygon will be all "nom nom nom nom nom" or the hierophant "nom nom nom nom nom"

Wardragoon wrote:

Nerivant wrote:The question is, how would the spores fare against a planetary shield?

I dont seem to recall many planets having one, hell coruscant didnt iirc, the ship burned up in atmo

Coruscant DOES have a shield. It has shields that protect against both solid matter and lasers.

I actually like this one Tyranids would win, for sure. the empire/republic doesn't have the strength that the imperium does: MEN. They have weak, idiotic storm troopers.

Samus_aran115 wrote:I actually like this one Tyranids would win, for sure. the empire/republic doesn't have the strength that the imperium does: MEN. They have weak, idiotic storm troopers.

That's great, if anything you just posted was relevant to the thread.

Samus_aran115 wrote:I actually like this one Tyranids would win, for sure. the empire/republic doesn't have the strength that the imperium does: MEN. They have weak, idiotic storm troopers.

Ummm... considering that Stormtroopers are clones, you've just made your own point invalid(they potentially have MORE bodies than the IoM).

Good job not having any idea what you're talking about.

Samus_aran115 wrote:I actually like this one Tyranids would win, for sure. the empire/republic doesn't have the strength that the imperium does: MEN. They have weak, idiotic storm troopers.

I think you trying to say the Imperium survives because of numbers, right?.

10,000,000,000,000 battle droids 'ought to hold 'em for a while. Most of them fragile skeletons of tin, but even so.

Weak troopers is questionable. Phase II clone trooper armor was capable of sustaining heavy fire, as well as the training they go through and genetic warrior genes they had made them the very best the republic could every get, short of The Jedi Army. One well-seasoned clone company is worth four-dozen companies of B1's. While the first Stormtroopers were the result of clones leftover from the war, that only lasted for a short time. The DNA of Jango was being stretched, and the Kaminoian rebels, forced the empire to use cheaper and less effective cloning techniques. and as a result, the Stormtroopers Corps. had to enlist ordinary humans. The Stormtrooper armor was terrible. Slugs and bludgeoning wasn't a problem, but one blaster bolt could drop you.

As of now, we have a more numerous and much superior fighting force for The Galaxy.


Also, we might as well say the force and the warp exist, because they run off different sources, and picking one or the other is playing favorites.

Samus_aran115 wrote:I actually like this one Tyranids would win, for sure. the empire/republic doesn't have the strength that the imperium does: MEN. They have weak, idiotic storm troopers.

lol, i agree with you, but this is about tyranids, not IoM, but i still think tyranids get it

Platuan4th wrote:

Samus_aran115 wrote:I actually like this one Tyranids would win, for sure. the empire/republic doesn't have the strength that the imperium does: MEN. They have weak, idiotic storm troopers.

Ummm... considering that Stormtroopers are clones, you've just made your own point invalid(they potentially have MORE bodies than the IoM).

Good job not having any idea what you're talking about.

No, Stormtroopers are NOT the Clone troopers of the Republic.


Palpatine gradually phased out Clone troopers because they were expensive to produce and their life spans were relativly short.

The Stormtroopers of the Empire are normal human recruits, which the one exception of the 501st legion(which remained completely made out of Clones)


Stormtroopers of the Empire army proper are less well trained then their Clone predecessors due to actually being human.




and the IoM still has an advantage in manpower. the population is in the countless trillions, the IG numbers in the Billions.

Horrific casualities that dwarf any Star Wars casualities are completely negated by the Birth rate.

in addition, the Republic and Empire had an almost complete reliance on humans for their fighting forces. Aliens were rarely present in Republic fighting forces and usually they were only allies that were under the command of a political leader whose loyalities at that moment were with the Republic. Palpitine was extremely racist and as such non-humans were almost non-existant in Empire forces(Admiral Thawn was an extreme oddity as the highest ranked non-human in the empire) only the New Republic had large numbers of Aliens in its forces.

Yep, Star War be stuffed.

They may be powerful, but Marines are a whole other thing entirely, and they really did tip the balance.

And no-one say Clone Trooper=Marine, they are totally different animals.

Has anyone mentioned wookies?

All jokes aside I think Star Wars Galaxy would destroy a Nid fleet, being able to mass produce droids that out preform the IG. Done.

Small, Far Away wrote:Yep, Star War be stuffed.

They may be powerful, but Marines are a whole other thing entirely, and they really did tip the balance.

And no-one say Clone Trooper=Marine, they are totally different animals.

What are you talking about?

Did you even read the OP?

evidence that drones outperform IG? from the movies they look about as effective as a 5 year old child punching a 10 foot thick steel wall, trying to get it to fall over...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
plus this isnt star wars vs 40k, it tyranids vs SW. so IG are completely unrelated

Grey Templar wrote:

The Stormtroopers of the Empire are normal human recruits, which the one exception of the 501st legion(which remained completely made out of Clones)

Depends on who you believe. If you believe Expanded Universe, then yes. However, following the release of Attack of the Clones, George Lucas himself said that the Stormtroopers from Episodes 4-6 were clones(later SW media has interpreted this to mean only the 501st, which means the movies show a single grouping of STs) . Battlefront 2 merely mentions that the Empire doesn't use a single genetic template post Kaminoan Rebellion.

So it's a matter of Fandom + the Authors vs the creator.

CREATOR...CREATOR...WE...MUST...FOLLOW...THE CREATOR(said in a robotic voice)

dajobe wrote:CREATOR...CREATOR...WE...MUST...FOLLOW...THE CREATOR(said in a robotic voice)

Bit of a one trick pony, aren't you?

im just bored...

dajobe wrote:im just bored...

I say that because you've posted that exact phrase in other threads before.

the creator one? i know i post about imperial demons everytime people ask about chaos grey knights, but havent done the creator one yet, i liked it though

Platuan4th wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:

The Stormtroopers of the Empire are normal human recruits, which the one exception of the 501st legion(which remained completely made out of Clones)

Depends on who you believe. If you believe Expanded Universe, then yes. However, following the release of Attack of the Clones, George Lucas himself said that the Stormtroopers from Episodes 4-6 were clones(later SW media has interpreted this to mean only the 501st, which means the movies show a single grouping of STs) . Battlefront 2 merely mentions that the Empire doesn't use a single genetic template post Kaminoan Rebellion.

So it's a matter of Fandom + the Authors vs the creator.

well, it makes sense since the 501st was the unit deployed on the Death Star 1 and the ones on Endor protecting the shield generator. that would explain why all the movie ones were clones.

Battlefront 2...great game...great game...

this is the main problem,

Lucas basically sold the soul of Star Wars to expanded universe authors to do whatever they wanted. Lucas couldn't care less about how the fluff turn out as long as he gets his cut.


I loved the Star Wars movies and some of the expanded universe stuff(mostly the old republic/Jedi Civil war), but much of it is so awful it makes me want to tear my hair out.

Lucas made up metachlorians.

Lucas should therefore, never be listened to, about anything.

He is also a terrible director, and the prequals were pretty much awful; imo of course.

Oh, and I think the 'Nids would probably win, but both sides seem to be succumbing to fandom in making some of their arguments; which... pretty much happens every time.

Midiclorients isn't that bad of an idea.

and the movies were pretty groundbreaking on all levels.

Grey Templar wrote:Midiclorients isn't that bad of an idea.

and the movies were pretty groundbreaking on all levels.

Well, I much preferred back when the Force was something that you trained for, not something you were born with. Although, I guess you could say midichloriants could be compared to the psyker gene, so I shouldn't be too annoyed with it. Just the way they did it in the movies had me /facepalming.

Also, I didn't say the movies were not groundbreaking, I loved the original trilogy (which Lucas only directed 1 film of), but I did not enjoy the prequals.

in addition, the Republic and Empire had an almost complete reliance on humans for their fighting forces. Aliens were rarely present in Republic fighting forces and usually they were only allies that were under the command of a political leader whose loyalities at that moment were with the Republic. Palpitine was extremely racist and as such non-humans were almost non-existant in Empire forces(Admiral Thawn was an extreme oddity as the highest ranked non-human in the empire) only the New Republic had large numbers of Aliens in its forces.

Humano-centrism did not become a thing in the SW galaxy until the rise of the Empire (and, let's be honest here... WH40K Imperium draws very heavily from the Star Wars Empire...)

Several alien species supported the Republic (the Mon Cal, for one, the Bothans for another, and these just two of the most famous examples, not to mention the Gungans, the Wookiees, and, earlier, the Falleen... which, with their pheromones, could enslave an entire Hive fleet.) Later, the Empire is supported by the Hutts, the Dak, the Twi'Lek, to name a few... though their prominence and direct political power is much reduced as they are non-Human.

The Tyranid have warp-powers now? Great... the Ssi-ruuk would love to Entech them! This now grants another SW race access to warp-powers... though the Ssi-ruuk are in no way, shape or form an ally of either the Republic or the Empire, we're talking about a whole galaxy of hundreds, if not thousands, of space-faring, some extremely war-like, species facing down an invasive alien race... much like they did against the Yuuzhan Vong, so hardly an unprecedented event in the SW galaxy.

Now... about midichlorians. While this does appear to add a pseudo-scientific biological aspect to being a Jedi, or rather being Force-sensitive, there's a few problems with it. One, it's stupid. Two, although mentioned in a film (heavily in Ep1, rapidly diminishing in Eps 2 and 3), thus making it A-canon (more on the levels of canonicity in SW in another post, if anyone cares)... it's not supported by other depictions of the Force and those who use it in all other SW sources. The Sith, especially, make use of the Dark Side in *extremely* mystical ways... alchemy, Force-influenced swords, staffs, amulets, rings, and so on... all of the things in 40K we know warp-based sorcerers and psykers to make use of. Sigils and runes, potions and sacred oils, monstrosities birthed from infusing normal creatures with the power of the Dark Side. What's more, various Sith artifacts, as well as the less-illustrious potions, rings, amulets and other bits, don't require the wielder to be Force-Sensitive to use them... the power is inherent in the item, not the wielder. How, then, can a sword possess midichlorians? It can't, it's just an object... one now infused with the mystical power of the Force (or, the Warp, in 40K). I would posit that a "high midichlorian count" is a *symptom* of having the potential to be a strong wielder of the Force, not the *cause* of that potential.

That said... defeating a Hive Fleet in the SW universe, especially in the era of the Clone Wars, is by no means an easy task. The Clone Wars is actually a fairly low point in the Republic's tech-levels, at least so far as weapons of war are concerned, and the Jedi of this era are mere shadows of the might they once wielded in the Old Republic, and would come to wield again when Luke Skywalker took up the mantle as Jedi Grand Master... some thirty years after the end of the Clone Wars.

Now... have the Hive Fleet come in when the Suncrusher or the Star Forge is still around? Almost no contest. The Suncrusher can destroy entire systems from across the galaxy, offering nearly no hope for its target to do anything about it. Its torpedoes are heavily shielded, and travel through hyperspace (in which they cannot be attacked, or stopped, unless you manage to somehow throw a moon or planet or star in its way... but, you would have to know the route it was taking) until reaching its destination... so, for all the Tyranid know, their massive Hive Ships just suddenly super-nova for no apparent reason. It would be somewhat akin to a Deathwatch kill-team using a Webway gate to exit into Realspace at the heart of the Hive Ship, drop off a genophage device that causes the Tyranid DNA structure to self-consume, and then skip merrily back into the Webway as the whole Hive Ship eats itself.

The Star Forge is, as mentioned previously, a bit less dramatic... offering only the ability to instantly and eternally produce ships and other war materials... but even the Tyranid do not produce new ships instantly, while the Star Forge did. The only trouble is finding the pilots for them... then again, it's much easier to build an astromech droid and plug it into the pilot socket than it is to train a sentient being to pilot a starfighter.

Also, the thought occurs to me, the difference in scale between the Tyranid Hive Ships and the starships of the SW galaxy is not as big a problem as it may first seem. Proton Torpedoes are carried by small starfighters, and are well capable of disabling/destroying a capital-class ship in a couple shots. A battleship of the SW galaxy can carry dozens and dozens of proton torpedo tubes.


Upshot? This is a war that, I think, is too close to call.