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In the BFG fluff for Tau and Demiurg it references the Demiurg giving Tau their Ion technology, so it wouldn't be surprising if they got a demiurg weapons team or the like including an ion cannon. But then, I wouldn't mind seeing those mounted on Broadsides, either. Of course I have always wanted a submunitions option for Broadsides. Same statline, only a small blast rather than the large one.

I'd like to see the Ion cannon on the hammerhead be basically the executioner cannon from IG, maybe not the same statline but str 6 ap3, heavy 3 blast, ignores cover just for the hell of it to piss off marines.

There seems to be a trend of giving Ion type weapons Rending or rending style effects. For the heck of it I did the Mathhammer on a Rending version of the Ion Cannon.

It was actually more lethal to AV 12, 13 and 14 than the Railgun.

While I would love to see a playable all-Kroot army option in the next Tau codex, I do not see it coming to fruition from a rules perspective. If the Tau are going to be reinvented as the supreme long-range army, they simply cannot get great close combat options as well. That is why the Forgeworld rules for Great Knarlocs are so bad, you can't just give an army that is terrible in close combat a reasonably priced monstrous creature to fill in that weakness.

Oaka wrote:While I would love to see a playable all-Kroot army option in the next Tau codex, I do not see it coming to fruition from a rules perspective. If the Tau are going to be reinvented as the supreme long-range army, they simply cannot get great close combat options as well. That is why the Forgeworld rules for Great Knarlocs are so bad, you can't just give an army that is terrible in close combat a reasonably priced monstrous creature to fill in that weakness.

Yes you can. From the Tau fluff they added the Kroot to their empire to fill in that weakness.

Jefffar wrote:There seems to be a trend of giving Ion type weapons Rending or rending style effects. For the heck of it I did the Mathhammer on a Rending version of the Ion Cannon.

It was actually more lethal to AV 12, 13 and 14 than the Railgun.

!? How do you figure? There are no other Ion weapons in 40k, unless you're referring to Necron Gauss weapons which are completely not the same?

Yes you can. From the Tau fluff they added the Kroot to their empire to fill in that weakness.

Yeah, but rules wise the Kroot aren't that good at cc. What he's saying is that a Kroot army is not going to be feasible because it will suffer from inferior shooting ability relative to the rest of the book, and inferior cc ability relative to other books.

I think jefffar was drunk when he posted that as a str 7 weapon with rending is at MOST str 10 after two sixes in a row (1 in 36 chance), and it doesn't have AP 1 which is a big loss. Remember folks Rending makes things AP 2, not AP 1.


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Edit: sorry on in 18, 5 and 6 give str 10

chaos0xomega wrote:
Yeah, but rules wise the Kroot aren't that good at cc. What he's saying is that a Kroot army is not going to be feasible because it will suffer from inferior shooting ability relative to the rest of the book, and inferior cc ability relative to other books.

Exactly, you can't let Tau have a Wych-equivalent as a Troops choice. Kroot are a 'speed-bump' in a normal Tau list, who would want to actually make an army of speed-bump units?

Any all-non-Tau force coming out of a prospective dex is going to be one-dimensional. No one is asking for a super competitive non-Tau army from the new book -- but sometimes that happens (death cult assassins ...) incidentally.

Hey My grey knights list doesn't have the first grey knight. It's got guys in power armor with power weapons and storm bolters, but they aren't grey, they're red, Mechanicus red. cause that's how the cool guys roll.

Oaka wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Yeah, but rules wise the Kroot aren't that good at cc. What he's saying is that a Kroot army is not going to be feasible because it will suffer from inferior shooting ability relative to the rest of the book, and inferior cc ability relative to other books.

Exactly, you can't let Tau have a Wych-equivalent as a Troops choice. Kroot are a 'speed-bump' in a normal Tau list, who would want to actually make an army of speed-bump units?

In an apoc game or just for fun, why not? I'm not investing in 120 kroot minis because I like em (actually, I do), or because they are dirt cheap (actually, they are), I'm buying them because I want to use them (actually, thats a lie too, I just want to maximize my ability to field any unit in the Tau codex/produced by GW, I love the blueies that much).

Kroothawk wrote:

Crisis suits have been completely redesigned (not just recut sprues and ankle tweaks), less boxy and including a 'morphic weapon'

I predict that GW will probably utilize a variant of FW's XV9 model. Which can explain why FW never released any XV9 Suit with convention Tau Crisis Suit weapons.

Im thinking the gigantic suit is...wait for it...cliche immenant...
Juggernaut

Tau will win every game, Why?

Because I'm the Juggernaut BITCH!

chaos0xomega wrote:

Jefffar wrote:There seems to be a trend of giving Ion type weapons Rending or rending style effects. For the heck of it I did the Mathhammer on a Rending version of the Ion Cannon.

It was actually more lethal to AV 12, 13 and 14 than the Railgun.

!? How do you figure? There are no other Ion weapons in 40k, unless you're referring to Necron Gauss weapons which are completely not the same.

The Tau have 3 Ion Weapons if you extend to the Phased Ion Gun on the Hazard suits from Forge World.

The Cyclic Ion Blaster has a Rending-like effect (AP 1 when a 6 to damage) and the Phased Ion Gun (the newest of the batch) has Rending straight up.

So I extrapolated and checked out what happened if the Ion Cannon got Rending.

So a little Math here, all numbers adjusted for rate of fire and BS 4 of a Hammerhead.


AV 10: Ion Cannon Glances or Penetrates 4/3rds of the time, Railgun Penetrates (no glance) 2/3rds of the time - Advantage Ion
AV 11: Ion Cannon Glances or Penetrates 2/2 of the time, Railgun Glances or Penetrates 2/3rds of the time - Advantage Ion
AV 12: Ion Cannon Glances or Penetrates 2/3rds of the time, Railgun Glances or Penetrates 5/9ths of the time, Advantage Ion
AV 13: Ion Cannon Glances (without Rending) or Penetrates (with Rending) 1/3rd of the time. Railgun Glances or Penetrates 4/9ths of the time, Advantage Railgun
AV 14: Without Rending the Ion Cannon can't do jack, but with it it Glances or penetrates 1/3rd of the time. Railgun Glances or Penetrates 1/3rd of the time. Advantage railgun, but only due to being AP 1

Sorry, mis-remembered my numbers, but if they make Ion rending across the board (which I think they may do) the much maligned Ion Gun is as good or better than the Rail Gun on mst vehicles and 35 points cheaper. Also, unless you get really lucky with a submunition scatter you're going to be clobbering Marines pretty good too.

Einhänder wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:

Crisis suits have been completely redesigned (not just recut sprues and ankle tweaks), less boxy and including a 'morphic weapon'

I predict that GW will probably utilize a variant of FW's XV9 model. Which can explain why FW never released any XV9 Suit with convention Tau Crisis Suit weapons.

Doubt it. They are probably going to be redone along those lines, but I think they are going to keep the XV-9 a distinct and separate entity.

Einhänder wrote:
I predict that GW will probably utilize a variant of FW's XV9 model. Which can explain why FW never released any XV9 Suit with convention Tau Crisis Suit weapons.

Yup everything games workshop does is extremely longsighted and planned in the smallest detail... in fact its a conspiracy. Or possibly someone is reading into something that's not there...

(AP 1 when a 6 to damage)

They are not AP 1, they are AP 2.

Wrong, it is AP1 on wounds of 6. This is the CiB which does not have rending like the PIG

WTF, what's the point in that?

They had rending before it was cool or something, so instead of having sr rending, they got it written out in the dex, and they get ap1 on a 6, unlike the normal sr rending. they dont get to roll a d3 for anti-tank though, not that theres a point since its s3.

Yeah, it's an attempt to do something cool, but really didn't help.

Still there definitely seems to be a tendency towards rending type effects on Tau (or is that Demi-urg?) Ion weapons. I hope we see it continue into the next codex.

Another observation from the new Apoc book.

One of the Tau formation get to automatically pass their Target Priority Test! ??

Well unless they're bringing that rule back for 6th Ed, i'm getting the feeling this 'new' Apoc book is just a stop-gap and they didn't have enough new units to put in! :(


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P.s I hope GW don't release the XV9 as standard cause i've already got them all!

I have to assume that if target priority were coming back, more than a single tau formation would get to ignore it out of that book. My vote is mistake on that one.

blood lance wrote:Im thinking the gigantic suit is...wait for it...cliche immenant...
Juggernaut

Leviathan may be a better name to go with the other aquatic themed names (devilfish, hammerhead, piranha)...

Is there any "Rumor" On whether or not the devilfish model will be redone or repackaged?

blaktoof wrote:Is there any "Rumor" On whether or not the devilfish model will be redone or repackaged?

Or possibly cost less points? Haha

Rented Tritium wrote:I have to assume that if target priority were coming back, more than a single tau formation would get to ignore it out of that book. My vote is mistake on that one.

That's my initial thoughts also but it's the only special rule the formation get! So a bit strange really!

There are no rumors that the devilfish (model) is being changed at all, nor the hammerhead or skyray.

Be interesting to see what the ubersuit designation is. I've always thought that XV9's were misnamed, as tau use base 8 math, and the number was supposed to be the size classification basically.

Prodigalson wrote:There are no rumors that the devilfish (model) is being changed at all, nor the hammerhead or skyray.

Be interesting to see what the ubersuit designation is. I've always thought that XV9's were misnamed, as tau use base 8 math, and the number was supposed to be the size classification basically.

And what bout XV25 Stealth Suits? They existed before XV9.

I like the current Devilfish, Hammerhead, and Skyray model. They are one of the reasons why I started playing Tau in the first place.