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nomotog wrote:

AtoMaki wrote:

Melissia wrote:Not exactly immunity, but resistance enough that their heavy carapace counts as armor against it.

It was nigh-immunity. The Tau had to abandon their pulse/ion weaponry, so i guess it wasn't just some random armor.

You know what bugs me about that. They abandoned there pulse weapons for kroot rifles that are also pulse weapons.

Kroot rifles are simple slug-throwers enhanced with pulse technology. The Tau codex is pretty clear about this (pg 17 and 29).

It's not clear about anything.

The Kroot fight with a rifle, which, while relatively primitive, is capable of delivering a charged round more powerful than a standard issue lasgun.

Kroot Rifle
A primitive slug-thrower relying on chemical propellant and the transfer of kinetic energy. The Tau have adapted the weapon to fire a charged pulse round.

Pulse Rifle
The pulse rifle uses an induction field to propel a particle, which reacts by breaking down to create a plasma pulse as it leaves the barrel.

And i think charged pulse round =/= plasma pulse.

AtoMaki wrote:

The Kroot fight with a rifle, which, while relatively primitive, is capable of delivering a charged round more powerful than a standard issue lasgun.

Kroot Rifle
A primitive slug-thrower relying on chemical propellant and the transfer of kinetic energy. The Tau have adapted the weapon to fire a charged pulse round.

Pulse Rifle
The pulse rifle uses an induction field to propel a particle, which reacts by breaking down to create a plasma pulse as it leaves the barrel.

And i think charged pulse round =/= plasma pulse.

So basicly, the fluff writer failed at life. Tau dumped there pulse rifles for worce pulse rifles, and they worked. lolwhat?

Riplikash: Interesting posts there chief! Was a time that this would have been exactly my kind of debate (to be part of rather than just read) but not anymore, sadly. Could I just ask you to clarify something? I know that different disciplines use the same words differently but when you mentioned the pre-scientific-method Classical Greeks using induction, did you mean deduction?

If you didn't mean deduction, would you mind giving a quick summary of what you (your discipline) means by those two terms? From my reading I would take the Platonic/Aristotelian idea that 'truth' derived by logical syllogisms and the like (leading to a higher level 'Truth' than that derived from mere, 'gross', observation/experimentation) would be deductive; where inductive would involve observation/repetition/experimentation (the basis of the scientific-method)... with attendant philosophical problems.

* * *

40k tech you say? I've never found that any faction matches its fluff on the 40k TT: Battlefleet Gothic, however, gets much nearer (despite dodgy points costs here and there). Someone asked near the beginning of the thread what made Eldar tech so special? On the 40k TT not much; on the BFG TT (if you're a good player and there's a decent amount of spacey terrain) then you outmanoeuvre and kill everything with your superior tech, every time - that's how Eldar do things... ummm, unless it's Necrons (who are as full-on WTF!? killy in BFG as they are in their [old] fluff).

gabrielhorus wrote:The order is as follows:

Necrons, Eldar/Tau, Imperium/Chaos, Orks, Tyranids.

Necrons are best because they're Necrons. (tech scale 'Doomsday')
Eldar tech has plateaued at 'Awesome' and Tau are Shooting themselves out of a cannon at 'Gunpowder' and sailing right on past 'Awesome' to 'Run, Just Run'. At the moment they are About at 'Awesome'. Imperium and Chaos are at 'Awesome, but Impractical'. Orks are at '%^%$' and Tyranids don't know what tech is.

For Reference, the scale is:

Run, Just Run > Doomsday > Awesome > Awesome, but Impractical > Modern > Gunpowder > ^&%$&^ > Bugs.

This here is the most accurate scale of 40k tech levels that I've seen.
Necrons - Able to manipulate time. And their tech is at a level beyond the understanding of all other races.
Eldar - Well they stole several suns which presently burn above Commorragh, but that was back in their heyday. Now they're still amazing, but not getting any better.
Tau - With the rate at which they progress, they'll soon pass Eldar and eventually even Necrons. Presently they're close to the imperium, only without all the floppy cables coming out of everything and plugging into everything else. Tau are wireless, more efficient and quickly getting better.
Imperium - Used to be much more amazing 10,000 years ago, but have degraded to regarding technology superstitiously like its magic, and improving it is heresy... So they're kinda stuck.
Orks - ...Make a valiant effort.
Tyranids - N/A

You could say that the Imperium is the PC of 40k while Tau are like Apple. One is kinda bulky and theres wires/cables everywhere while the other is sleek and fancy, however they are pretty much equal when it comes to efficiency.

Thatguy91 wrote:You could say that the Imperium is the PC of 40k while Tau are like Apple. One is kinda bulky and theres wires/cables everywhere while the other is sleek and fancy, however they are pretty much equal when it comes to efficiency.

Good analogy. And they each have things that are a little better than the other.

I don't know why the poster said lol next to Orks. Orks are able to build a gun that(with enough shots) could kill a marine, out of random scrap and squig oil. They can make their tech instinctively. So if they put their minds to it they could have the best (if they already don't) tech in the galaxy.
~Also tyranids have pretty good tech making mucus cannons and what-not through natural mutation.

kitterex wrote:I don't know why the poster said lol next to Orks. Orks are able to build a gun that(with enough shots) could kill a marine, out of random scrap and squig oil. They can make their tech instinctively. So if they put their minds to it they could have the best (if they already don't) tech in the galaxy.

There's a difference between 'technology' and, for all intents and purposes, 'magic', and is better described as 'nonsense'.

Lynata wrote:Though I'd still find it somewhat hard to believe that there are labcoat 'crons.

As of the 5e codex, there are.

They are called Necron Crypteks, Necron scientists whose mastery of the materium is so advanced that they are basically psykers who don't use the Warp, able to bend the and alter the natural laws of reality by basically inputting cheat codes into spacetime.

And yeah, first place goes pretty easily to Necrons, after that probably Eldar/Dark Eldar (The former might be a little lesser than the latter due to relying on the Warp for it, arguably), after that the Imperium, then Tau.

Ork technology is to the side a bit, and Tyranids might not even technically have "technology".

infinite_array wrote:

kitterex wrote:I don't know why the poster said lol next to Orks. Orks are able to build a gun that(with enough shots) could kill a marine, out of random scrap and squig oil. They can make their tech instinctively. So if they put their minds to it they could have the best (if they already don't) tech in the galaxy.

There's a difference between 'technology' and, for all intents and purposes, 'magic', and is better described as 'nonsense'.

Pritty much why. I cant see any chance that they could produce effective and in great numbers a highly advanced peice of tech.

Well, the Crypteks arn't exactly inventing new stuff. They've long since stopped conducting proper research. Now they are just looking for proper host forms for the Necron race. No real RnD going on.

Grey Templar wrote:Well, the Crypteks arn't exactly inventing new stuff. They've long since stopped conducting proper research. Now they are just looking for proper host forms for the Necron race. No real RnD going on.

That one Cryptek special character regularly performs research.

And really... They already make spacetime their bitch, and managed to separate and imprison a species of star gods, for them to get any more advanced would break the setting.

Ok, bad choice of wording there. He isn't inventing anything new, just investigating stuff.

I think the idea of technology varies to a high degree. Necrons are the most advanced in terms of scientific technology. What i mean by that is technology that can exist without the use or existence of psychic energy or other such things. Each race seems to often go in different directions in how it makes and uses it's technology.

Orks are considered crude but that ignores certain massive and clear advantages of Ork technology. Ork-tech is easily made (often from scrap) and can produce similar and or equal results to machines made by other races with far greater difficulty. Tau-tech is advanced but the Tau also have far less of a supply problem compared to others. The Imperium is much more adavanced than the Tau but has not the time or motivation to delve into it's most advanced technology.

When considering Tyranids, they don't have technology by any normal definition. A Tyranid carrying a gun may of been evolved to carry that gun as the gun will be a Tyranid as well, unlike other armies where guns are made for people to use and people aren't bred to carry them. Tyranid genetic engineering makes the genetic engineering of the Space Marines look crude and shoddy. Also Tyranids are the only race to of travelled from one galaxy to another, this is something the rest of the other major races would consider impossible or so difficult as to be unworkable. On the other hand Tyranids have not and probably never will invent the wheel. The wheel being one of the simplest pieces of technology to make or invent.

Depending on if you count warp-based tech actual technology or just sorcery, either Necrons or Chaos.

Orks easily, say all you want for their physcic maguffin ability of randomly making things work, but in practice when they loot a peice of necron kit there has to be an underlying engineering theory to be able to modify it. I mean look at the shok attack gun, sure the techs unreliable but have you seen some of the AdMechs more impressive backfires?

Durza wrote:Depending on if you count warp-based tech actual technology or just sorcery, either Necrons or Chaos.

Well, whoever tinkered with the Tau, putting them through their 100.000 years of species and civilatory evolution in 1/100 of the time, also created a perfectly stable, unmovable, impenetrable (even for Chaos and Eldar) Warp Storm that shielded Tau from the rest of the Galaxy for them to advance to their current state in fast-forward. Not even the Chaos Gods themselves have evidenced that sort of control over the warp. It's a feat that rivals the Old Ones.

So, if you cound warp-based tech as actual technology, the winner would clearly be Tau (or, more precisely, their mysterious creators).

For all practical purposes, "technology" in 40k is "magic nonsense".

Consider:
A ramshakle ork flier that has no right getting off the ground in the first place, let alone being an effective war machine. Why does it defy physics so? Ork gestalt psychic power making it work because they believe/know it works. Perhaps it is even painted red.


Compare:
A Tau skyray. It "looks" aerodynamic and sleek, but merely looking the part isn't going to get you off the ground (unless you are the above Ork, I suppose). It has no more right to be hovering about than the Ork flier has to be in the air. Why does it defy physics so? Anti-gravity devices, clearly! Because those totally aren't an impossibility. (Seriously, there was a special on TV about Sci-fi tech, and a pair of physicists ripped these things apart, while clips from the Clone Wars movie played.) It isn't any less silly than the Ork gestalt.


Compare:
A Necron anything. They defy physics using technology so advanced that it, even in the fluff, blurs the line between tech and magic. Because apart from whatever distictions you want to draw in the fluff, there IS no line in 40k. When they float, it is because of glowy green magic. Or glowy green super science.


This isn't to decry any one answer to the question asked, just to point out that saying what is "tech" and what is not in our beloved 40k universe is just an arbitrary line drawn by the person making the statement.

My personal line is: Technology is anything that is created by a race as a tool to accomplish some end. Whichever race does this best by their own standards has the best technology, because their tool is doing what is was created to do.

By that standard, I could vote for Necrons, who are arguably tools themselves, Tau, who do not artificially confine their tech, Orks, who create what they want to create, and it does what they want (even when it backfires really. When your racial goal is "more killy" and finding a fight, it is a little easier to get exactly what you're after), or even Tyranids, if you want to consider their biological constructions that do what they are supposed to really well "technology".

Ultimately, I rather arbitrarily voted for Orks. Because their tech is the most fun to look at for me.

I'd vote Chaos Daemons. Humanities darkest thoughts and most depraved desires given physcial form? It's like the Internet coming alive and jumping out to eat you.

The way i see it it scales like so

Necrons: King ol the Hill. Not only are they the oldest technological race still around, but they are also the one with the most technical know how. Most other races can't even began to understand how some of their tech works.

Eldar: They are also an ancient and technological race, but are starting to wan and have lost some of that knowledge. However even with what was lost only one race is above them in tech know how.

Tau: Gets a solid third place, they have the drive Man did during the darkage, but are progressing maybe even a bit faster. They have not reached the power of Man during the dark age, but understand more then the IoM currently does. They will surpass the IoM given time, maybe as little as a thousand years.

Imperium of Man: They are currently in the forth spot, they have some great tech, but mostly do not really understand it and can not really recreate the high end stuff., Tech wise they are about even to the Tau, however I can not put them on the same ground based purely upon the fact they are playing with things they really no longer comprehend. They used to be number three, but those days are long gone.

Orks: Are about even with the IoM honestly, they get the fifth spot only because they understand even less then the IoM. . They work off gentic knowledge and basically psychic power. The tech itself works about as good as the stuff the IoM fields, if jury rigged, over complex and pron to do odd things.

Tyranids: Do not use what we would think of as tech, they evolve things to suit them. Guns they use because they are effective, so they took tech someone else used and replicated it. They may not understand it on any real level, but they can replicate it as it used evolutionary systems they can replicate, Energy.

DrimGark wrote:For all practical purposes, "technology" in 40k is "magic nonsense".

Consider:
A ramshakle ork flier that has no right getting off the ground in the first place, let alone being an effective war machine. Why does it defy physics so? Ork gestalt psychic power making it work because they believe/know it works. Perhaps it is even painted red.


Compare:
A Tau skyray. It "looks" aerodynamic and sleek, but merely looking the part isn't going to get you off the ground (unless you are the above Ork, I suppose). It has no more right to be hovering about than the Ork flier has to be in the air. Why does it defy physics so? Anti-gravity devices, clearly! Because those totally aren't an impossibility. (Seriously, there was a special on TV about Sci-fi tech, and a pair of physicists ripped these things apart, while clips from the Clone Wars movie played.) It isn't any less silly than the Ork gestalt.
.

Anti-gravity is only impossable with our current understanding of the natural universe. We still don't even know what gravity is exactly or how it works. It is entirely possable that Gravity is actually caused by some sub-atomic particle that can be manipulated with an EM field.

And the Tau and Eldar anti-grav technology may not be anti-gravity at all. Maybe they have a pressure generator that creates a cushion of air underneath their vehicles, similer to a hover craft, that allows them to glide along with minimal effort.

The Imperium doesn't have anti-grav technology, but rather has plates that keep the speeder up by repelling the planets magnetic field. and as such speeders don't work on planets without magnetic fields.

IMO I believe chaos the legions have heresy or older tech and older is better in 40k plus the heretechs build new weapons mix demon and warp tech into there devises.

Grey Templar wrote:

DrimGark wrote:For all practical purposes, "technology" in 40k is "magic nonsense".

Consider:
A ramshakle ork flier that has no right getting off the ground in the first place, let alone being an effective war machine. Why does it defy physics so? Ork gestalt psychic power making it work because they believe/know it works. Perhaps it is even painted red.


Compare:
A Tau skyray. It "looks" aerodynamic and sleek, but merely looking the part isn't going to get you off the ground (unless you are the above Ork, I suppose). It has no more right to be hovering about than the Ork flier has to be in the air. Why does it defy physics so? Anti-gravity devices, clearly! Because those totally aren't an impossibility. (Seriously, there was a special on TV about Sci-fi tech, and a pair of physicists ripped these things apart, while clips from the Clone Wars movie played.) It isn't any less silly than the Ork gestalt.
.

Anti-gravity is only impossable with our current understanding of the natural universe. We still don't even know what gravity is exactly or how it works. It is entirely possable that Gravity is actually caused by some sub-atomic particle that can be manipulated with an EM field.

And the Tau and Eldar anti-grav technology may not be anti-gravity at all. Maybe they have a pressure generator that creates a cushion of air underneath their vehicles, similer to a hover craft, that allows them to glide along with minimal effort.

The Imperium doesn't have anti-grav technology, but rather has plates that keep the speeder up by repelling the planets magnetic field. and as such speeders don't work on planets without magnetic fields.

Are you sure about speeders? Where did you read that?

Grey Templar wrote:Well, the Crypteks arn't exactly inventing new stuff.

What new stuff do they have left to invent?

Not all advanced technology is mechanical... It amused me reading the Poll to find Necrons at the top of it all. Considering they (to my knowledge) no longer manufacture new technology, and the vast majority of theirs is millennia old.

I voted Tyranid. Due largely that they are the pinnacle of evolution. They adapt perfectly to any given threat/situation. Every threat they have met, they have found a way to evolved to beat it. The hive mind has the perfect weapon, The Tyranid genus ^_^


well thats my two cents

AnUnearthlyChilde wrote:Not all advanced technology is mechanical... It amused me reading the Poll to find Necrons at the top of it all. Considering they (to my knowledge) no longer manufacture new technology, and the vast majority of theirs is millennia old.

I voted Tyranid. Due largely that they are the pinnacle of evolution. They adapt perfectly to any given threat/situation. Every threat they have met, they have found a way to evolved to beat it. The hive mind has the perfect weapon, The Tyranid genus ^_^


well thats my two cents

List of races with planet-sized super starships capable of destroying fleets of other ships:

Necrons.

List of races with a super weapon that can destroy any star in the galaxy with the press of a button:

Necrons

List of races with a handheld weapon they can build that can punch a hole into the core of a mountain:

Necrons

List of races who have cut to pieces and then compressed a race of star gods into Necrodermis bodies:

Necrons

The list goes on and on my friend.

This is a non-argument honestly. The fluff is consistent and blunt on this: The Necrons are the most technologically advanced race in the galaxy, bar none.

AnUnearthlyChilde wrote:Not all advanced technology is mechanical... It amused me reading the Poll to find Necrons at the top of it all. Considering they (to my knowledge) no longer manufacture new technology, and the vast majority of theirs is millennia old.

I voted Tyranid. Due largely that they are the pinnacle of evolution. They adapt perfectly to any given threat/situation. Every threat they have met, they have found a way to evolved to beat it. The hive mind has the perfect weapon, The Tyranid genus ^_^


well thats my two cents

Oh I'll give you that they are biologically advanced, But like the Orks and the IoM, almost none of that race understands a bit of it. They are at best semi-A.I like floating factories. They go off instinct and pre programming more then true understanding. So yes while the bio-technical side is damned advanced, it is no better then orks or IoM and understands it even less as a whole.

Void__Dragon wrote:

AnUnearthlyChilde wrote:Not all advanced technology is mechanical... It amused me reading the Poll to find Necrons at the top of it all. Considering they (to my knowledge) no longer manufacture new technology, and the vast majority of theirs is millennia old.

I voted Tyranid. Due largely that they are the pinnacle of evolution. They adapt perfectly to any given threat/situation. Every threat they have met, they have found a way to evolved to beat it. The hive mind has the perfect weapon, The Tyranid genus ^_^


well thats my two cents

List of races with planet-sized super starships capable of destroying fleets of other ships:

Necrons.

List of races with a super weapon that can destroy any star in the galaxy with the press of a button:

Necrons

List of races with a handheld weapon they can build that can punch a hole into the core of a mountain:

Necrons

List of races who have cut to pieces and then compressed a race of star gods into Necrodermis bodies:

Necrons

The list goes on and on my friend.

This is a non-argument honestly. The fluff is consistent and blunt on this: The Necrons are the most technologically advanced race in the galaxy, bar none.

The fluff is also balls, the very idea that the Necrontyre have risen up against the C'tan is just plain stupid... but thats another discussion.


List of Races to wipe out countless Galaxies:

Tyranids.

List of Races to wipe out countless Races:

Tyranids.

List of Races to consistently win against every race they have encountered:

Tyranids.

Joking aside, this poll and thread was created as a way of people expressing opinion, not just to brow beat and smack people upside the head stating fluff. Personally I chose the Tyranids. because after they have devoured every last remnant of biomass in this galaxy, they will move on and do the same again, and again, and again, and again.... etc. While the Necrons sit in/on their tomb-worlds scratching their metallic butts