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 silence indigo wrote:
I like the book a lot. Lots of options and possibilities for customisation. I especially like :

- Boon of the gods
- Unit options, such as Marks and Icons and Wargear
- More lots of cool units with odd powers, allowing for extreme variety even in armies themed after a single chaos god
- Cultists
- Daemon monsters
- Dark Apostles
- Lower point costs for Lords and Sorcerers, allowing for more options

Most things I'd like less are the cost of the Defiler, the look of the Helldrake and the loss of Infiltrate for Chosen.

Edit: Oh, and my chaos spawn can now serve in my armies, like walking alongside a unit of cultists to deny an opponent a charge bonus, and to make great distraction units (I'd have thought that just making them Beasts and losing S&P would have made them good, and there you go!) They can even serve Father Nurgle and contribute to the Tally of Pestilence now. Great job!

Losing infiltrate for Chosen isn't a big deal. You can take Huron or Ahriman, or hope for a lucky roll on the traits, and infiltrate any infantry units, to include terminators and obliterators. No more waiting for reserve rolls and hoping for good scatter. Place those suckers where ever you want and light something up with your multi-melta turn 1.

Looks like the New codex is a resounding hit!
(if counting votes, not posts)

I'm happy with the new codex. I'm painting punch of Juggernauts to expand my army.
One for my Khorne lord and rest as count-as Spawns of Khorne.

 adhuin wrote:
Looks like the New codex is a resounding hit!
(if counting votes, not posts)

I'm happy with the new codex. I'm painting punch of Juggernauts to expand my army.
One for my Khorne lord and rest as count-as Spawns of Khorne.

Yay for your Avatar - Day of the Tentacle for the win

I like the codex. It's not perfect, but it has plenty of cool options.

In the end, it's done the GW requires of it, at least on my part: I've started rejigging my army and have spent more money on it in the past month than in the past few years.

While i don't play CSM, i do play against them. the games i played before the codex, the armies i played against were esentially the same, with a few minor differences.
Since the new dex came out, all the marine players play different armies. it may be that the optimum list has yet to be found by competitive players, but the CSM do now seem to have now what they lacked before: Variety

In the same way that C;SM, GK's and necrons have a variety of competitive builds to choose from, CSM seem to have them as well, and that in my mind is a good thing.
Nothing in the army screams 'overpowered', just as nothing screams underpowered, there don't seem to be any 'compulsory' choices aside from those dictated by the FOC.

If i have any dissapointment with the list its that the Dragonzoid looks totally out of place. but, thats a small issue.

Chaos are now, in my oppinion closer to what they should be, crazed bitter traitor marines, with hordes of cultists they can use and abuse, supported by daemonic engines of war. a stark contrast to their loyalist brothers

 Cheexsta wrote:
I like the codex. It's not perfect, but it has plenty of cool options.

In the end, it's done the GW requires of it, at least on my part: I've started rejigging my army and have spent more money on it in the past month than in the past few years.

Me too, but mostly on allied daemons. I don't know if that means the chaos space marine codex worked like it was supposed to, but it worked.

Again one if my biggest gripes is that it seemingly encourages you to use daemon allies to make up for the things the codex lacks yet it really gives you no support for them. You don't even get teleport homers.

I have not got the actual codex yet... have not painted or played for a while because I wanted to take a break from the hobby. But from the looks of reviews, tactics and the BoW Chaos week, it does look like a good codex. It may still be lacking some flavor to it, but it's better than the last one!

madtankbloke wrote:
While i don't play CSM, i do play against them. the games i played before the codex, the armies i played against were esentially the same, with a few minor differences.
Since the new dex came out, all the marine players play different armies. it may be that the optimum list has yet to be found by competitive players, but the CSM do now seem to have now what they lacked before: Variety

In the same way that C;SM, GK's and necrons have a variety of competitive builds to choose from, CSM seem to have them as well, and that in my mind is a good thing.
Nothing in the army screams 'overpowered', just as nothing screams underpowered, there don't seem to be any 'compulsory' choices aside from those dictated by the FOC.

If i have any dissapointment with the list its that the Dragonzoid looks totally out of place. but, thats a small issue.

Chaos are now, in my oppinion closer to what they should be, crazed bitter traitor marines, with hordes of cultists they can use and abuse, supported by daemonic engines of war. a stark contrast to their loyalist brothers

I just played my first game with my new 2500 point CSM army, against my friends 2500 point DE army, and still had my butt handed to me because of the CSM lack of this so called "Variety" they apparently have..

I like that they added new things to the codex, the boon table for instance, but that doesnt stop the fact that most of their units are simply flawed by design... Take the new Warp Talons for instance... There is simply NO WAY you are going to perfect a scatter within 6" of an enemy unit to use your WarpFlameStrike... Its a 1 in 3 chance your going to get it off properly and the rest is you rolling to find out your squad potentially ran into a brain-leaf-forest of instant death...

I love my CSM, but currently I'm still finding that all of their units are still god awefully expensive, and simply not on par with other units in their same catagory.

Why do I have to buy arms for my CSMs??? 2 points per model to give them a CCW when they aren't carrying anything to begin with?.... Sounds like a pretty bad battle plan to equip your death dealing warriors with a bolt pistol and send them into the fray....

Defilers are bloody expensive now, even with no upg.

Being FORCED to now take chaos spawn and bikers is rather disappointing... PLUSS our terminators got no love.... Why was our mainstay Elite simply ignored? v_v

I don't really know if it's simply because I was fighting DE, but the Heldrake didn't exactly do it's job of taking out those DE flyers =/ Everyone said these things were supposed to be godly vs other flyers, yet mind managed to fail it's Hades shots on 3 different turns to destroy those DE flyers with FlickerField =/ The forgefiends did alright, but being able to sit 24" from your target and blast them to pieces always does well I suppose =/

If anyone has any tips for a frustrated Chaos Player, PLEASE send me a few tips and tricks to help in dealing with DE v_v'' it's getting pretty annoying being shot to death by 16 poison shots coming from a Venom that managed to fit 5 models inside it... =/

firestorm_rm@hotmail.com if you would like to share some tactics with me, I would LOVE to learn a few tricks!!

Shame on you Phil Kelly for not writing a codex to keep up with the power codex's!!

Grats to you Phil Kelly for writing an excellent codex that isn't over the top!!


That being said, I really like the codex. I think it is an example as to how all the codex's should be written. A lot of options, versatility, yet unique.....but with nothing that screams overpowered.

First of all, I like the fact it is hardback, for someone like me, that is a welcomed protector and nice touch to the codices. I haven't read it, but it should be decent codex because it was done by Phil Kelly, and lastly, you may have get your butt handed to you because it is new rules and you have to yet perfect new tactics.

I think the codex is ok, the fact that special characters can turn into a DP or spawn is silly. And the point increase and no MoN for the DP is done poorly.other than those I think it's fairly well balanced (once the PZ is FAQed). I would hope that they FAQ special characters to be immune from spawn and DP rolls as well. And being a hardback is pretty cool as well.

Not impressed. I liked the prev codex better than this one actually. Who gives berserkers 1 attack? Theyre khorne berserkers. If im going to go berserk im gonna get 2 attacks in. Fluff is no bueno. Hard back is dumb when everything is digital now. Even GW knows this. No one reads these posts anyway so im gonna be honest. Weve been duped. Yea i said it. Im the customer and ive been duped. The only reason i do this is because of the community. I like to keep my hands busy to keep me from thinking.

I have to say i want to like this codex.... But i just can't... They made it feel so bland.... They blanded up the psychic powers and warlord traits and it just seems like they cut sooo much out and didn't bother replacing it or making it better... I have already given away most of my dark vengance models and have revocked myself as a chaos player (outside of fantasy that is) Maybe some people can get this army to work for them but i would definently not suggest this book to a competative player unless they like an uphill battle. I feel this codex was only meant for those who want to have fun, which is nice and we always need more people like that but i like having an army who can both be fun and competative

I'm starting to believe the poll resembles ''it's all lies they're not even square...'' or people are saying like out of sarcasm...

can someone please explain this to me ?

IT SEEMS LIKE YOU CAN NEVER CHARGE WITH NEW CODEX !

so this is the situation.

chaos marines must have a champion now.
champions of chaos must issue and accept challenges.
so if you charge with berserkers a squad of space marines, who usually must have a sarge . berserker champ will have to issue and accept challenge.
and all berserkers will loose all their attacks gained from charge on the next assault phase ?

or i dont get challenge rules ?

zagmodell wrote:
can someone please explain this to me ?

IT SEEMS LIKE YOU CAN NEVER CHARGE WITH NEW CODEX !

so this is the situation.

chaos marines must have a champion now.
champions of chaos must issue and accept challenges.
so if you charge with berserkers a squad of space marines, who usually must have a sarge . berserker champ will have to issue and accept challenge.
and all berserkers will loose all their attacks gained from charge on the next assault phase ?

or i dont get challenge rules ?

The only thing that will change is that your berserker will have to direct all of his attacks at the sarge, your other models will still slaughter the troops.

You dont get the challenge rules. You dont lose attacks unless you are charging a single model unit which is also a character

Oh thanks ) such a relief !

This is not about the CSm Codex in particluar however, I do not care for the hardback codices they are going to at all. Could not wait to get my hands on Dark Vengeance so I could get the smaller and lighter rulebook and now they take the codex and make it bulkier, heavier and much more expensive. Just a dumb idea in my opinion.

In addition, I have been playing 40K since its inception in its orginal Rogue Trader version and when they were coming out with codices for 3rd edition I think, they were running at about $15 as I recall and you could pick them all up if you felt so inclined without having to spend a ludicrous sum. I think now folks will most likely choose just to get their own codices and leave the rest alone.

I also saw that they are selling the electronic version for $.01 less which seems equally ridiculous to me. They have no printing costs involved in that format and will recoup their programming costs way before they should need to get to that price point.

They do, however, have to give 30% to Apple

Everyone forgets that, and thinks that publishing on iOS is free

 Riddick40k wrote:
I have to say i want to like this codex.... But i just can't... They made it feel so bland.... They blanded up the psychic powers and warlord traits and it just seems like they cut sooo much out and didn't bother replacing it or making it better...

Can you elaborate on what you mean? I haven't found anything missing, but I have fine-tooth-combed it. I'd like to hear more... unless it's about special Chaos Legion rules that aren't missing (because I;m tired of that). But seriously, what makes them not Chaos for you anymore?

nosferatu1001 wrote:
They do, however, have to give 30% to Apple

Everyone forgets that, and thinks that publishing on iOS is free

In digital format, however, they have a much wider audience than in printed form, so they have the potential to make a lot more money if they were to lower the prices. If they cut the prices by half, how much more revenue do you think they would see generated by increased sales? I have never bought a single digital product because I feel that paying 30 dollars for a digital form of something I could be holding in my hands for 45 (indie store discounts) is too hard to justify. Now if the said codex was 15 dollars in digital form... I would buy it in addition to my hardback just to have a more-portable copy! I know a lot of fellow gamers who would likely do the same. Not to mention people who couldn't afford the codex in the first place would flock to this medium... giving them a huge boost in sales. Furthermore, since we all know codex sales = increased miniature sales, it would still be generating revenue, even if it is not in codex sales. And they would still make 10 bucks per digital copy. That's free money; no printing needed.

At least, that's how it seems to us uninformed Joes siting at home on our computers... maybe GW has market information that we don't have access to that prompted their business decisions. Guess we'll never know.

Great, great codex for casual play. Tournament players are going to complain, but I enjoy their tears, their tears are sweet to me.

While the codex does not have a lot of the jump off the page combos that others do I find it to be a good book and will be using my chaos army as my main force for the foreseeable future.

The dragon flyer is lame.
The mutilators just dont seem to be worth it and the models strike me as lame.
Possessed are still not worth it.
Other than that i am Stoked on Cultists. really like the new artifacts and the changes they made with the mark system. Overall i am happier than i was for sure.

On little over look of Typhus

Plague Zombies: "and cannot purchase options."

That means your Plague Zombies Units can only be 9 zombies + Champion, Because "~May add up to twenty-five Chaos Cultists" is and option so a Plague Zombies unit is 9 zombies + Zombies Champio


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 sennacherib wrote:
The dragon flyer is lame.
The mutilators just dont seem to be worth it and the models strike me as lame.
Possessed are still not worth it.
Other than that i am Stoked on Cultists. really like the new artifacts and the changes they made with the mark system. Overall i am happier than i was for sure.

Heldrake is a reincarnation of the Doomwing daemon engine fighter play, Mutilators are close combat versions of Obliterates, Forgefiends are reincarnations of slaanish hell knights, Maulerfiends are reincarnations of the Khorne daemon engines, Warp Talons are close combat versions of Raptors but are also daemons, the Helbrute/Dreadnought got less crazed and are not dangerous to field.Daemon princes were beefed up but lost eternal warrior, Warpsmith added a chaos vrs of a techmarine, and dark apostle fills in for dark priests.

Typhus' Plague Zombies have an over looked fact, and can't purchase options means can not increase unit size so stuck with 9+1 for unit size.

GoliothOnline wrote:

madtankbloke wrote:
the armies i played against were esentially the same, with a few minor differences.
Since the new dex came out, all the marine players play different armies. it may be that the optimum list has yet to be found by competitive players, but the CSM do now seem to have now what they lacked before: Variety
In the same way that C;SM, GK's and necrons have a variety of competitive builds to choose from, CSM seem to have them as well, and that in my mind is a good thing.
Nothing in the army screams 'overpowered', just as nothing screams underpowered, there don't seem to be any 'compulsory' choices aside from those dictated by the FOC.
If i have any dissapointment with the list its that the Dragonzoid looks totally out of place. but, thats a small issue.
Chaos are now, in my oppinion closer to what they should be, crazed bitter traitor marines, with hordes of cultists they can use and abuse, supported by daemonic engines of war. a stark contrast to their loyalist brothers

I just played my first game with my new 2500 point CSM army, against my friends 2500 point DE army, and still had my butt handed to me because of the CSM lack of this so called "Variety" they apparently have..

I like that they added new things to the codex, the boon table for instance, but that doesnt stop the fact that most of their units are simply flawed by design... Take the new Warp Talons for instance... There is simply NO WAY you are going to perfect a scatter within 6" of an enemy unit to use your WarpFlameStrike... Its a 1 in 3 chance your going to get it off properly and the rest is you rolling to find out your squad potentially ran into a brain-leaf-forest of instant death...
I love my CSM, but currently I'm still finding that all of their units are still god awefully expensive, and simply not on par with other units in their same catagory.
Why do I have to buy arms for my CSMs??? 2 points per model to give them a CCW when they aren't carrying anything to begin with?.... Sounds like a pretty bad battle plan to equip your death dealing warriors with a bolt pistol and send them into the fray....
Defilers are bloody expensive now, even with no upg.
Being FORCED to now take chaos spawn and bikers is rather disappointing... PLUSS our terminators got no love.... Why was our mainstay Elite simply ignored? v_v
I don't really know if it's simply because I was fighting DE, but the Heldrake didn't exactly do it's job of taking out those DE flyers =/ Everyone said these things were supposed to be godly vs other flyers, yet mind managed to fail it's Hades shots on 3 different turns to destroy those DE flyers with FlickerField =/ The forgefiends did alright, but being able to sit 24" from your target and blast them to pieces always does well I suppose =/

the variety will quickly wear off. Cultists have a lot of potential but I see them quickly becoming one of two things, ultra cheap objective holders/troops for more force org or an occational bus for a fearless character. everything else will be gone.

people are using mauler fiends and forgefiends because they are new. With their rules I doubt either one of them is taken long term. In a mech list they could work, but without a razorback, stormraven, or decent land raider chaos dont do mech very well. With all of the good choices; the new bikes, autohavocs, oblitorators, spawn and cultists, being nonmech I dont see chaos being a meched up force anymore. You dont have enough rhinos/vehicles to last very long to an average opponents AT. The fiends thus wont last long enough to be worth it.

There are plenty of things that scream underpowered. Possessed and mutilators scream the loudest. Everyone hates on warp talons, they are bad, but not in the previous class of terrible. Chaos land raiders are pretty terrible, without POTMS or a decent transport capacity they are out of luck. zerkers and tsons have some fluff uses but are otherwise bad. The new HQ choices are also rather bland and overcosted. Except for chaos lords, sorcs and SC i dont expect to see much in non fluff armies.



On the overpowered side, there isnt much. Bike and spawn are too good, how too good is yet to be determined but expect lots of them in any chaos force. The brand of sayxlon(sic) is an autotake. a 25 point torrent AP3 flamer is too good before you give it to characters and allow it to show up litterally anywhere. The black mace on a DP might be some cheese. all those toughness tests could get ugly. The helldrake is awesome against armies that either dont have AA in their codex or dont take it. Few flyers can really threaten mass infantry. The doomsythe can to an extent, but it is good against against tanks heavy infantry. The razorwing has limited ammunican and scatters too much. the flamer is good against medium and light infantry all day long, which is new.

 LoneLictor wrote:
Are you seriously complaining about people complaining?

You do realize how hypocritical this is, right?

Writing a comment is not *complaining*. Get over it. I believe wholeheartedly that wasting so much energy being upset about a codex book is pointless, hence my post. Whether you like it or not it is as valid a point as any other.

As for hypocritical, chastising me for "complaining about people complaining" takes your hypocrisy to the next level beyond mine, mate.

Skriker

To get back on the topic... I'm not sure to get why Bikers with Mark of Nurgle are suddenly so impressive. Because of Instant Death immunity, or a slightly lower point cost?

I like the models (I have Nurgle 10 bikers, all conversions) but it seems they're so expensive to field out and have so little firepower that I can't really feature a use for them compared to my Plague Marines (who don't die) and my Obliterators (who destroy tanks from afar), for example. Sure, they're fast, but that much faster than a Rhino and while Toughness 6, they still can be shot by an Infantry guard's lasrifle if enough sixes are rolled on wounds... And you have about 5 IG troopers for a single bike that doesn't shoot much.

What am I missing in the new codex that suddently makes them so interesting?