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I was hoping for decent Alpha Legion options before I bought. I was not provided with these (and unsure if the rumored upgrade sprues are ever coming) so I wont be buying CSM products any time soon.

This reminds me a bit of guard players who like to whinge that the guard codex can't perfectly recreate armies from a dozen or so worlds.

Chaos Marine players seem to think that they alone have the sacred right to collect a competative army from the specific legion of their choice...nevermind that vanilla marines, guard and chaos deamons don't get this luxury, if it's even possible to create essentially 6 or so sub-codexes within the book.

It's a good 'dex, and Chaos are competative again now. I also lolled at someone complaining about flying deamon princes costing more. 6s to hit, brah. Take it from someone who's run flying circus with chaos deamons, it makes them damn hard to kill

I can't wait to get my copy. I hope it arrives today. (Stupid Columbus day being a gumment holiday and no mail...)

 d3m01iti0n wrote:
I was hoping for decent Alpha Legion options before I bought. I was not provided with these (and unsure if the rumored upgrade sprues are ever coming) so I wont be buying CSM products any time soon.

"The Alpha Legion's veterans are experts in infiltration, covert operations, and manipulating events in their favor without revealing themselves or engaging in open warfare. Alpha Legionaries have been known to disguise themselves as loyalist Space Marines.[13] Their armies also contain numerous Chaos Cultists in addition to regular Chaos Space Marines"
So, you wanted the chaos codex to allow their units to disguise themselves as Space Marines?

Sounds legit to me. I hope the next guard codex allows me to have literally an unlimited number of infantrymen. It's fluffy, right? And if GW don't give me this, it just goes to show how little they care about their customer base.

 Skriker wrote:
Having everything spelled out is about as creative and interesting as yet another khorne CSM army that only has berserkers in it.

Well, at least you don't have to worry about that happening!

I think the codex is decent, and you can make quite diverse armies with it. However, there are annoyingly many missed opportunies. This book could have easily been so much better.

 Testify wrote:

Chaos Marine players seem to think that they alone have the sacred right to collect a competative army from the specific legion of their choice...nevermind that vanilla marines, guard and chaos deamons don't get this luxury, if it's even possible to create essentially 6 or so sub-codexes within the book.

It's a good 'dex, and Chaos are competative again now. I also lolled at someone complaining about flying deamon princes costing more. 6s to hit, brah. Take it from someone who's run flying circus with chaos deamons, it makes them damn hard to kill

I think you are a bit confused about what people are actually complaining about. The valid complaint isn't that chaos cannot make a competitive list out of the specific legion of their choice as you are posing, but rather that all of the god specific wargear has pretty much been removed. There are exactly 2 generic daemon weapons. In the gavdex you at least had the god specific daemon weapons. This was not replaced with more options, either. Its not that chaos players are worried about "competitve" so much as they would like a bit more to differentiate their marked lord than a tatoo. Some token wargear would have been nice.

Also people aren't complaining about Daemon Princes because they are flying, they are complaining about them because they cost an arm and a leg and live in eternal fear of Railguns and other such weaponry. Its not a big deal if you don't play against Tau, but its not fun watching your 250 points of Daemon Prince get punked by the first (twin linked) railgun shot to roll a 6. You'll notice that CD Princes have Eternal Warrior, and I'll tell you right now that my current DP model will probably be switched over to an allied Chaos Daemons Heavy Support Slot for that reason alone- the other being that pavane rocks.

You are making it sound like Chaos Space Marine Players are all just a bunch of whiners because they didn't get a codex on par with necrons. This just isn't true and its fundamentally unfair. Chaos players have some legitimate complaints about the restrictiveness of the new codex. Sure it may be competitive, but that was never what most people were complaining about in the first place.

 Testify wrote:

 d3m01iti0n wrote:
I was hoping for decent Alpha Legion options before I bought. I was not provided with these (and unsure if the rumored upgrade sprues are ever coming) so I wont be buying CSM products any time soon.

"The Alpha Legion's veterans are experts in infiltration, covert operations, and manipulating events in their favor without revealing themselves or engaging in open warfare. Alpha Legionaries have been known to disguise themselves as loyalist Space Marines.[13] Their armies also contain numerous Chaos Cultists in addition to regular Chaos Space Marines"
So, you wanted the chaos codex to allow their units to disguise themselves as Space Marines?

Sounds legit to me. I hope the next guard codex allows me to have literally an unlimited number of infantrymen. It's fluffy, right? And if GW don't give me this, it just goes to show how little they care about their customer base.

There are what......six different SM codecies? Weird that I thought it would be a cool idea to differentiate between Chaos legions huh? And as a dedicated BT player I am the wrong guy to be talking to about GW caring for their customer base. Troll onward Battle Brother!

 akaean wrote:

I think you are a bit confused about what people are actually complaining about. The valid complaint isn't that chaos cannot make a competitive list out of the specific legion of their choice as you are posing, but rather that all of the god specific wargear has pretty much been removed. There are exactly 2 generic daemon weapons.

No, you are wrong; there is only one, the Black Mace.

This is one of those missed opportunities. They bring back the armoury (which is cool), but there really isn't enough stuff in it. The only daemon weapon being AP4 mace is just sad. Khorne gets the axe, which is nice, but they do not get the Collar of Khorne, possibly most iconic khornate artefact. It would have nicely compensated the lack of psychic powers, and worked well with 'deny the witch' rules.

Given that SM's get entire books just because one chapter likes jumppacks and another likes wolves, I don't understand why a book supposed to portray the mortal forces of chaos, encompassing armies far more varied and distinct than between any of the loyalist SM books, is supposed to be given a pass when it fails on that point.

It's a good 'dex, and Chaos are competative again now.

I don't know. I think it's too early to quantitatively state that they are competative now. To me, when you take into account all of the new rules in 6th, they really only read as being exactly the same level as they were towards the end of 5th. They don't appear to have gotten anything that's going to push them into a new category of competitiveness in my opinion. Most (not all mind you) of the new things are not filling new gaps. They are new ways to do things the Chaos Marines could already do in my opinion. Time will tell though, and like I said earlier, my gripes really don't have anything to do with the competitiveness.

Given that SM's get entire books just because one chapter likes jumppacks and another likes wolves, I don't understand why a book supposed to portray the mortal forces of chaos, encompassing armies far more varied and distinct than between any of the loyalist SM books, is supposed to be given a pass when it fails on that point.

Exactly.

The lack (well, dearth) of god specific wargear is disappointing, yeah. Personally I'm not a fan of the Chaos Boon table since it limits your ability to take non-mutated traitor legions. Idunno. I think it's pretty clear that GW intends for people to make free use of counts-as. Heck, I've never even had a GW store employee try to soft or hard sell me into painting up a codex specific army when I've chatted about trying out a new 'dex.

I don't recall ork players complaining much that they didn't get squiggoths and boar boyz so they could play snakebite lists.
If you want to play alpha legion, play the normal marine codex with guard allies.

I think the biggest issue with the "lack" of Alpha Legion specific pieces in that we don't know who is currently leading the Alpha Legion. Yes, Alpharius or Omegon is dead, the other still in hiding somewhere, but without a named character you don't have any recourse but to use what is in the codex.

You want strategic machinations that rely on complex plans and subterfuge? Huron Blackheart has decent rules to do that. Nothing is preventing you from painting him up like the Alpha Legion.

Also. There is a 2 page picture of an Alpha Legion army... Look at the HQ they use in that pic and let me know because my codex is at home... or this point might go somewhere lol

 Alfndrate wrote:


Also. There is a 2 page picture of an Alpha Legion army... Look at the HQ they use in that pic and let me know because my codex is at home... or this point might go somewhere lol

I see the Lord from the DV set and a Dark Apostle. Of course, this is Alpha Legion, so I'm pretty sure Omegron is the cultist, bottom row, third to the left.

I think its pretty much widely accepted that neither Primarch is dead, as every Legionairre is called "Alpharius".

Been playing Chaos Space Marines exclusively for 2+ years. Black Legion.

This codex has a couple of glaring wtfs (like the terminator wargear gaff / Abaddon not being able to join squads that bear a Mark of Chaos) but I expect these issues to be quickly FAQ'd.

I don't care that the codex isn't GK / Necron uber, I've remained competitive all throughout 5th and 6th.

What this codex did RIGHT was create a balanced, FUN and versatile list. I've never enjoyed this game more than in 6th edition and the new army rules are part of why. All of the units I love and use got a reduction in points, access to more options (Oblits + Nurgle = T5 lololol) and almost every HQ got significantly better with the exception of Daemon Princes. Even Possessed and Raptors got enough love to bring them into line and make people consider taking them again. In short, Kelly managed to tune up just about everything and make it worth taking, so now it's left for the players to use what fits their style.

+1 I love the new Chaos Space Marines

I cant vote yet my copy i preordered still has not come in yet! :(

Da Boss wrote:
I don't recall ork players complaining much that they didn't get squiggoths and boar boyz so they could play snakebite lists.
If you want to play alpha legion, play the normal marine codex with guard allies.

Oh hey, you must not have been there when the blood axe players complained for QUITE some time after their entire list was completely broken and they weren't allowed to fully infiltrate their army anymore. Same with Snake boyz after chapter approves was finally taken away.

 akaean wrote:

I think you are a bit confused about what people are actually complaining about. The valid complaint isn't that chaos cannot make a competitive list out of the specific legion of their choice as you are posing, but rather that all of the god specific wargear has pretty much been removed. There are exactly 2 generic daemon weapons. In the gavdex you at least had the god specific daemon weapons. This was not replaced with more options, either. Its not that chaos players are worried about "competitve" so much as they would like a bit more to differentiate their marked lord than a tatoo. Some token wargear would have been nice.

Dude, Chaos Lords have access to a gak load of options. Complaining about a lack of them really doesn't make sense. The items are not god-specific to prevent them being blocked 75% of the time. You can't complain about lack of variety in their effects, or that they're over/under powered.

If you really really need to have the name of your God in your wargear's name then feel free to tipex it out and write it in - it's your codex.

 akaean wrote:

Also people aren't complaining about Daemon Princes because they are flying, they are complaining about them because they cost an arm and a leg and live in eternal fear of Railguns and other such weaponry. Its not a big deal if you don't play against Tau, but its not fun watching your 250 points of Daemon Prince get punked by the first (twin linked) railgun shot to roll a 6. You'll notice that CD Princes have Eternal Warrior, and I'll tell you right now that my current DP model will probably be switched over to an allied Chaos Daemons Heavy Support Slot for that reason alone- the other being that pavane rocks.

I forgot about deamon prince losing EW. Honestly I think this is an oversight on GW's part. If it's not FAQed back in then...yeah. DPs suck. Hell a single demolisher shot could kill it.

 akaean wrote:

You are making it sound like Chaos Space Marine Players are all just a bunch of whiners because they didn't get a codex on par with necrons. This just isn't true and its fundamentally unfair. Chaos players have some legitimate complaints about the restrictiveness of the new codex. Sure it may be competitive, but that was never what most people were complaining about in the first place.

I didn't mention necrons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 d3m01iti0n wrote:

There are what......six different SM codecies? Weird that I thought it would be a cool idea to differentiate between Chaos legions huh? And as a dedicated BT player I am the wrong guy to be talking to about GW caring for their customer base. Troll onward Battle Brother!

So you want specific codexes. You can't use the "GW only care about ultrasmurfs" line, then accuse me of trolling, THEN claim that you want GW to put 6 codex's worth of material into one book.

Still waiting for my copy to arrive through the post :(

Why is their no neutral button?

How many S10 shooting attacks are in the game, and how many of them can't shoot FMCs because they're blasts?

Also, didn't DPs get access to Biomancy?

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
How many S10 shooting attacks are in the game, and how many of them can't shoot FMCs because they're blasts?

Also, didn't DPs get access to Biomancy?

It's mainly force weapons. A 5-man Strike Squad could easily kill a DP under the current rules.

 kronk wrote:
I can't wait to get my copy. I hope it arrives today. (Stupid Columbus day being a gumment holiday and no mail...)

I hear that! Been exploring one at the local store wait for my pre-order to arrive most likely tomorrow...sigh...

Skriker

Like the new codex, looks well-written, allows for a variety of lists. Some hit and miss new units. Dragon looks gakky as hell, new characters look good. Ridiculously overpriced.

 Testify wrote:

 d3m01iti0n wrote:

There are what......six different SM codecies? Weird that I thought it would be a cool idea to differentiate between Chaos legions huh? And as a dedicated BT player I am the wrong guy to be talking to about GW caring for their customer base. Troll onward Battle Brother!

So you want specific codexes. You can't use the "GW only care about ultrasmurfs" line, then accuse me of trolling, THEN claim that you want GW to put 6 codex's worth of material into one book.

Too late, already said it. Nobody needs 6 CSM codexes. A simple HQ army-wide modifier would suffice (ala BT vows with EC). I dont give a flying crap about CSM for the most part yet I am not the first and far from the last to express this sentiment. Just sticking up for my heretical homies.

I think the new codex in itself makes rasonable replacement to the old one as its....."so pretty".

My main problems are as specified already the vanilla-ness of it, if i wanted chaplains, tech-marines and a recurring theme of one legion beng the best i would have played SM.

As it is the Chaos armoury felt like a massive waste of paper with the rules being decribed at the back, costed in the middle and some limitations put in the entries, When most of the items can only be taken by the lords and Sorcerers!

On the whole though i think we'll really have to wait till the Chaos Daemons codex is redone as if they have could synergy it could be a marketing ploy from GW.

Dislike + 1....... It's a pile of dung

 Sigvatr wrote:
Like the new codex, looks well-written, allows for a variety of lists. Some hit and miss new units. Dragon looks gakky as hell, new characters look good. Ridiculously overpriced.

What new characters, we've had the same special characters for the last 9 years....I'm not sure if thats sunk in for anybody but we've had no new special characters in nearly a decade....

Edit just one: Houron

I just looked at it; its pretty decent. Some modified IG for Alpha cultists would be dope. Ugh I dont want to put my Nids on hold...