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Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






SoCal, USA!

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 JohnHwangDD wrote:
reL Ex-Illis - I liked the concept well enough, but wasn't excited by the execution.

It's not like the Vor Growlers or AT-43 Therians - those were minis that I found to be inspiring (but not so much so that I'd have spent money on them).

MAN I forgot about AT-43. Some great designs but the modeler in me was less drawn to the game, though did appreciate the designs overall. Nobody let me proxy things either out of the two people that played the game.

How did the mechanics work? Heard they weren't terrible but that's about it.


I couldn't say how either game played, as I never got into Vor or AT-43. I just liked how some of the minis looked for those 2 specific factions.

   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




 Swan-of-War wrote:
I still have some Ex Illis minis - converted a bunch of them into a Warhammer Empire army a few years back.

Big problem with games like Ex Illis (and Golem Arcana or whatever) is that it constantly takes your attention away from the miniatures. People are staring at a screen more than the tabletop. The miniatures seem tertiary to a pretty crappy war game - the smart phone/ tablet aspect of it really didn't add to the game as intended.

The Ex Illis designer had a creepy non-smile in all the company photos too.

You can't make a comment like that and not post one photo of him!

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter





SoCal

AT-43 had some amazing background material. The Therians and Red Blok were my favorites, but they all had something to recommend them. The vehicles were also top notch. The only vehicles that compare for sci fi bad assery are from Dust Tactics.

I really wish whoever designed Defiance Games' boxes had found more work in the industry. The timelines and maps on the back were awesome, and the flavor text cards with That's Good/That's Bad were highly amusing.

   
Made in in
[MOD]
Otiose in a Niche






Hyderabad, India

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

I really wish whoever designed Defiance Games' boxes had found more work in the industry. The timelines and maps on the back were awesome, and the flavor text cards with That's Good/That's Bad were highly amusing.


That sounds interesting, any scans?

 
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter





SoCal

There are a few pics at this link, but I don't see the cards. I kept them...somewhere...so will post pictures if I come across them anytime soon.


http://ember-studios.com/portfolio/cats/


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I must remember maps from somewhere else. The memory lies.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/09/20 03:34:20


   
Made in us
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus




MAN I forgot about AT-43. Some great designs but the modeler in me was less drawn to the game, though did appreciate the designs overall. Nobody let me proxy things either out of the two people that played the game.

How did the mechanics work? Heard they weren't terrible but that's about it.


The game had already died off in my area when the more advanced army books got released, so IDK if this changed, but the mechanics were kind of basic. The ruleset wasn't terrible, but the way they did the army design for the U.N.A. and Therians that came in the initial boxed set made the game too even. The forces operated in a somewhat similar manner and the way the rules worked, those games often came down to "whomever goes last will probably win".

Like I said, IDK how that panned out once they expanded the game, but it made for a tough sell at launch. It did play VERY fast though. I wish 40k were half as fast.

Edit: I just googled ablutions and apparently it does not including dropping a duece. I should have looked it up early sorry for any confusion. - Baldsmug

Psiensis on the "good old days":
"Kids these days...
... I invented the 6th Ed meta back in 3rd ed.
Wait, what were we talking about again? Did I ever tell you about the time I gave you five bees for a quarter? That's what you'd say in those days, "give me five bees for a quarter", is what you'd say in those days. And you'd go down to the D&D shop, with an onion in your belt, 'cause that was the style of the time. So there I was in the D&D shop..." 
   
Made in gb
Stitch Counter






Rowlands Gill

Anyone wanting to check out AT-43 can find an archive of the printed material here:

http://at-43.understairs.nl/index.php

I have a stupidly huge Red Blok army which looks lovely. I enjoyed the game for what it was, and always intended to use the Red Blox as proxy Imperial Guard in 40k. Then I found out that I didn't like 40k very much and that my existing Smurf army was quite enough to use for the odd time I felt I needed to play!

So, now the Red Blok lurk in a box in my attic awaiting the time I finally get round to playing AT-43 again (probably never, but never say never!), or alternatively the arrival of a new game that I can proxy them into. I had wondered about Konflikt 47, but have ended up extending my Bolt Action British army for it, and haven't really gamed much with that yet, so doing another army for the game is not a priority. I tend to like painting and collecting new stuff, rather than repurposing old stuff. I also don't think K47 is really "my" game. I've played a lot of BA, and am getting a bit bored with the gameplay, so its losing its lustre...

Hey ho! Such is the life of a Wargaming gadabout!

As for the gameplay of AT-43, I did enjoy it. I played the game about half a dozen times and used the play mats and terrain items (mainly containers and barricades) that came with the sets. I enjoyed them. The mechanics were sound, and gave interesting enough games. Mind you we played scenarios - mainly the Damocles campaign, if I remember correctly, which I always prefer over a straight "line 'em up and fight" kind of game. I seem to remember there were complaints that some of the later factions were less well balanced than the earlier ones, presumably because they had much less development time and resources put into them and were rushed into production, but that was no biggy.

Had the game continued I have a feeling I would be still playing it, but its strange how a "dead" game languishes in the cupboard, even though there is no real reason for it to - I have an opponent with an army (well three in fact - he's a bigger wargaming whore even than I am!), who also liked the game. Cult of the "New Shiney" I guess!

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/09/25 10:46:43


Cheers
Paul 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Vor was a great game that never had all its models out (just like its fantasy version Crucible) both of them played IMO much much better than any edition of 40k (not a bash, just a standard to measure against) the game always felt competitive and could turn around any time. AT-43 I never got much into but I heard it was not much different from the last version of Confrontation which I still play almost religiously to this day. SO yeah LOVE it.
   
Made in us
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus




Vor was a great game that never had all its models out (just like its fantasy version Crucible) both of them played IMO much much better than any edition of 40k (not a bash, just a standard to measure against) the game always felt competitive and could turn around any time.


Vor was amazing and had more character than just about any game that came before or since. The campaign system alone was pretty great. I played Growlers as my main army. Watching the pack evolve between games was so much fun. Seeing the pups become "One-horns" and the "One-horns" become bulls, and then the inevitable time you lose your favorite bull between games because he challenged the Chieftan for control of the pack and got killed for it. So much fun!

It was well thought out in general. I liked the "points" system they used for actions during your turn. It made for a very dynamic and interactive game IMO.

Edit: I just googled ablutions and apparently it does not including dropping a duece. I should have looked it up early sorry for any confusion. - Baldsmug

Psiensis on the "good old days":
"Kids these days...
... I invented the 6th Ed meta back in 3rd ed.
Wait, what were we talking about again? Did I ever tell you about the time I gave you five bees for a quarter? That's what you'd say in those days, "give me five bees for a quarter", is what you'd say in those days. And you'd go down to the D&D shop, with an onion in your belt, 'cause that was the style of the time. So there I was in the D&D shop..." 
   
Made in us
Brigadier General






Chicago

Interesting discussion all around.
On a related tangent I wonder if we as gamers are simply immune to the lesson of history when it comes to Sci-Fi and Fantasy wargames that attempt to make it BIG. As I see it, it is as simple as this:
If it is not made by one of the "Biggies" (GW, FFG, Corvus, PP, etc) It will likely not last more than 4 years.

There are some exceptions (Battletech, Malifaux,etc), but they're the exception, not the rule. Most of the other games that continue on for long term are small affairs from small shops that don't need big sales to carry on. If you're making an all-included (rules, minis, background from same producer) game system with high production values that depends on a massive playerbase and continued sales, that market is already mostly cornered to the point where it's hard to see how there's enough buyer $ our there to support a new entry.

One would think that we would either stop buying such games, or maybe even look to alternate "generic" rulesets to keep our favorite minis on the table. Yet, we don't do either. We continue to buy games that are likely to fail, from companies that are likely to fold (often KS companies that barely exist) and when the end does come, we shelve the project rather than find alternate ways to get the figs on the table.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/10/06 15:30:54


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Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






SoCal, USA!

@Eilif - It wasn't that long ago that BattleFront, Corvus Belli, Wyrd and Privateer Press were shoestring game companies hoping to get past the first year. Some games catch lighting in a bottle (Warmahordes & Flames), others do not. Some of those are lucky enough to get a strong enough following to survive in their niche (i.e. Wyrd, CB). Even if they're popular, they're still immature small businesses, of which the majority close within 4-5 years.

As for going big vs niche gaming, most of the ones that got big started small. Flames was a radical rethink of WW2 gaming, catching tremendous flak for making it 40k-like (and accessible).Warmahordes was very small when it launched, but they catered to the underserved tournament crowd, and got lucky.

BTW, it looks like Kingdom Death can be added to the list of long-term successful niche companies, where Soda Pop Miniatures seem likely to fold. In my case, I've been working on my homebrew rules to play what I like. But I'm not doing generics, because that's not my interest. Generic rules are problematic - just look how The Ninth Age now finds itself as a flash in the pan, to be forgotten soon enough.

   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka






Case in point - I first came across Battlefront when they were listed in Dream Pod 9's Gear Krieg rulebook as a source for 15mm WW2 models - third on the list, IIRC, and it was mentioned that 15mm was a rather odd/obscure scale for WW2 gaming.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Scotland

I think another fault of a lot of the smaller companies was;"Okay,we've got a great idea for a range of great miniatures and an involving back story,let's release them!"
This happened with a range I collected. The Range was called 'Atlantis Imperium' and the figures they released were kind of a futuristic take on ancient Greeks and maybe Eldar. I collected the whole range,and there was promise of vehicles other factions and more importantly, a rulebook.
Nothing happened.

And as I look around at my shelves of minis, I realise that I have a quite a few ranges that didn't go anywhere. There have been a lot of companies who bring out brilliant (but small) ranges of minis,and I suspect that many of them just release them in the hope that they catch people's eyes and are used for other games,while they make some money to pay the bills.

I'll go back a few years for this next bit. The advent of plastic minis was probably the death knell for a lot of them,it must have been a struggle to try and sell mono pose models when you were up against multipose options and a higher quality of detail,let's face it, a lot of metal models are/were a bit rough. I will say that there was and continue to be many great metal miniatures/I still buy old and new.

Back in the eighties there were a lot of small companies around producing any type of mini for the roleplaying systems(for there were many back then!) that dominated back then. Then the wargame books for fantasy and Sci-fi started to appear and I started to see a decline in a lot of them.Back then their only source of advertisement was in White Dwarf or word of mouth. When GW went inhouse,they all disappeared from sight. Historical wargames magazines never seemed to take any advertisements for Fantasy/Sci fi;I always thought it was snobbery.

Come up to date and the same is true to an extent; no-one seems to bother advertising their stuff! It's a bit lazy to use social media only/it costs nothing as the followers do it for you. But you are in a wargames bubble,and only the wargamers will notice. You are preaching to a lot of players/collectors who are pretty rigid in what they buy; If x is heavily into one system how do you convince them of an alternative? Advertise/promote or rely on a few extra sales through social media?

Correct me if I'm wrong, I've known about War Machine for a long time but as far as I know it hasn't had anywhere near the impact in the UK as it has in the US, and I blame it on their lack of promotion of their ranges. Same for Infinity,know nothing about it,nice minis though.

Companies will disappear new ones will arise and then disappear as well. And all because they don't really like talking to anybody, for lack of a better term of description.

 
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Making Stuff






Under the couch

 Eilif wrote:

One would think that we would either stop buying such games, or maybe even look to alternate "generic" rulesets to keep our favorite minis on the table. Yet, we don't do either. We continue to buy games that are likely to fail, from companies that are likely to fold (often KS companies that barely exist) and when the end does come, we shelve the project rather than find alternate ways to get the figs on the table.

Not sure who you're putting in the 'we' category there, but the whole problem with these little games from startup companies is that people don't buy into them.

Miniature gamers tend to be fairly conservative and stick to a ruleset that they either know they like, or that they know enough other people are playing to get games in. This makes it really, really hard to get people to try new games, regardless of how good they look. Nobody wants to play a game until they know that it's going to take off and stick around... but that won't happen if nobody plays the game.


 
   
Made in us
Brigadier General






Chicago

JohnHwangDD wrote:@Eilif - It wasn't that long ago that BattleFront, Corvus Belli, Wyrd and Privateer Press were shoestring game companies hoping to get past the first year. Some games catch lighting in a bottle (Warmahordes & Flames), others do not. Some of those are lucky enough to get a strong enough following to survive in their niche (i.e. Wyrd, CB). Even if they're popular, they're still immature small businesses, of which the majority close within 4-5 years.

As for going big vs niche gaming, most of the ones that got big started small. Flames was a radical rethink of WW2 gaming, catching tremendous flak for making it 40k-like (and accessible).Warmahordes was very small when it launched, but they catered to the underserved tournament crowd, and got lucky.

I think you're making my point for me on two fronts.
1) All those companies are now at least 10 years old I think. Not long in the grand scheme, but that's a veritable eternity in the gaming biz.

2) Think of how many other companies and games have come and gone in the same time. If you were betting on those companies at the very beginning the odds certainly weren't with you.

All this to say, putting your money into a new game and expecting it to stick around is a very risky maneuver. Even big properties like Dr Who, Judge Dredd, Starship Troopers, Aliens, Terminator, etc are poor indicators of long-term success.

JohnHwangDD wrote:
BTW, it looks like Kingdom Death can be added to the list of long-term successful niche companies, where Soda Pop Miniatures seem likely to fold. In my case, I've been working on my homebrew rules to play what I like. But I'm not doing generics, because that's not my interest. Generic rules are problematic - just look how The Ninth Age now finds itself as a flash in the pan, to be forgotten soon enough.

As to Kingdom Death, it might become one, but I think it's only the last couple years where it's been a product that's available for regular purchase correct?

What's the connection between generic rules and 9th age?

As for generics in general, I've played ALOT and there are good and bad ones and some really good ones. Personally I've found that most of my best gaming over the past 8 years has been with generic rulesets. Song of Blades and Heroes, Mech Attack, Dragon Rampant, etc. I'd halfway include Kings of War in that list as well though they've been making strides towards fleshing out their universe even as the game remains quite open to other miniature lines. Frostgrave is another in-between system that is fairly open with backstory that is growing.

Slipstream wrote:
I'll go back a few years for this next bit. The advent of plastic minis was probably the death knell for a lot of them,it must have been a struggle to try and sell mono pose models when you were up against multipose options and a higher quality of detail,let's face it, a lot of metal models are/were a bit rough. I will say that there was and continue to be many great metal miniatures/I still buy old and new.

Back in the eighties there were a lot of small companies around producing any type of mini for the roleplaying systems(for there were many back then!) that dominated back then.


Good Point. Starting in the late 90's, GW committing to plastic was HUGE. It took the better part of a decade to go almost completely plastic, but it funneled their financial power into a product that smaller companies just couldn't match. Even GW's worst looking multipart plastics were more flexible and customizable than the best metal figs.

As for the old figs of the 80's and 90's many are gone, but a surprising number of those lines still exist in the cottage industry of miniature gaming. Grenadier, Metal Magic, Harlequin, Ral Partha, Kryomek, Void, Celtos, and many, many more are still in production via small companies that bought the molds and masters and keep them in production.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 insaniak wrote:
 Eilif wrote:

One would think that we would either stop buying such games, or maybe even look to alternate "generic" rulesets to keep our favorite minis on the table. Yet, we don't do either. We continue to buy games that are likely to fail, from companies that are likely to fold (often KS companies that barely exist) and when the end does come, we shelve the project rather than find alternate ways to get the figs on the table.

Not sure who you're putting in the 'we' category there, but the whole problem with these little games from startup companies is that people don't buy into them.

Miniature gamers tend to be fairly conservative and stick to a ruleset that they either know they like, or that they know enough other people are playing to get games in. This makes it really, really hard to get people to try new games, regardless of how good they look. Nobody wants to play a game until they know that it's going to take off and stick around... but that won't happen if nobody plays the game.



It'd be interesting to know for sure, but I assume (only a guess, but bear with me) that someone is buying these new games because the kickstarters keep succeeding and game producers keep looking at the market and deciding that it's worth giving it a go again. Whether the interest lives beyond the initial offerings is another matter entirely and I suspect that has as much to do with poor business skills as it does with customer reticence.

You're right about the vicious circle though, which is probably at least part of the problem. Games fail, makes less people want to commit, which leads to less buyers, which leads to games failing.

As for "we" it's probably ironic in my case since for the past 8 years or so I've been buying mostly off-brand, used, and indie products. I've essentially been contributing little (maybe 20% of my spending) to the new wargames market except in that presumeably a fair amount of what I buy has been putting cash back in the hands of gamers who do buy flashy new products.

The upshot though is that with few exceptions (Deadzone...), I've not been disappointed. Even my recent foray back into big-name-game-companies with Runewars is with the full expectation that FFG may discontinue the game in a couple of years and my Daqan will live on only in Kings of War and Dragon Rampant.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/06 20:31:53


Chicago Skirmish Wargames club. Join us for some friendly, casual gaming in the Windy City.
http://chicagoskirmishwargames.com/blog/


My Project Log, mostly revolving around custom "Toybashed" terrain.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/651712.page

Visit the Chicago Valley Railroad!
https://chicagovalleyrailroad.blogspot.com 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






SoCal, USA!

@Eilif - it's only been the last couple years that Kingdom Death has gotten to be obviously self-sustaining *and* scalable. That is, the recent KS puts KD where they have the breadth of range, sheer sales volume and committed revenue and profit to exist as a long term entity.

The 9th Age is a generic not-WFB Fantasy ruleset that can use GW, Mantic or other 3rd party minis. It did great for a year and is petering out.

GW's worst looking multipart plastics were more flexible and customizable than the best metal figs.




WAT?

   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka






Slipstream wrote:
I think another fault of a lot of the smaller companies was;"Okay,we've got a great idea for a range of great miniatures and an involving back story,let's release them!"
This happened with a range I collected. The Range was called 'Atlantis Imperium' and the figures they released were kind of a futuristic take on ancient Greeks and maybe Eldar. I collected the whole range,and there was promise of vehicles other factions and more importantly, a rulebook.
Nothing happened.


My Atlanteans are lurking around in case I fancy trying out Tomorrow's War or something similar (although I wasn't aware of any pans for rules; I just bought them to use in other games); I might even have enough for an Astra Militarum platoon, although I'm not sure what to do with the guys with spears and shields . Studio Miniatures own them now, but they've so far only re-released the basic infantry squads for three factions.

In the days before Kickstarter, that was the risk - small companies can't afford to put out a whole range in one go, so they release them in waves - but then people don't buy into them because they're afraid they'll close up shop before the whole range is available. It's also why so many companies do Imperial Romans, late-war Germans and US and Napoleonic French - they're the best sellers - while other factions are not represented at all.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/07 09:14:45


 
   
Made in gb
Joined the Military for Authentic Experience





On an Express Elevator to Hell!!

I think one thing this thread indicates is that it's bloody difficult to succeed and (especially) last any amount of time in this industry. If you do, you're in a minority!

It's actually a surprise that so many new ones still appear, stepping in amongst the bones of those that came before. But I suppose, ultimately if you last for some years, produce a good game, bring people some enjoyment and a nice pastime, does it matter if it doesn't last for ever? Very few things actually do. And the nature of the creative people working in the hobby is that they move between games and companies, trying different things elsewhere.

What's the connection between generic rules and 9th age?


You might well ask!

JohnHwang I wish you would stop sticking the knife in and twisting whenever there is the opportunity, the kind of game represented by 9th Age and the like (similar games that exist as rulebook only, and live off other miniature ranges) aren't really the focus here and deflates the rest of otherwise (I think) well made points.

On a thread about to travel to Italy. "It's a beautiful place, food, wine, amazing scenery. Unlike 9th Age, which does nothing in this area and is rubbish, everyone hates it and I hate it especially"

Epic 30K&40K! A new players guide, contributors welcome https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/751316.page
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Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka






A lot of small ranges can survive because they're not being run as a business - If you're only casting models in your shed (or ordering a batch from Griffin now and then), it doesn't matter if you only get one order every couple of months, because that's not paying your mortgage.

Somewhat on-topic, Meeples and Miniatures had an interview with Jon Tuffley of Ground Zero Games recently - there's an example of a company that's apparently quite happy chugging along in the background.
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





^Yep, I mentioned this in a post earlier. I think many people think they can earn enough money to provide a meaningful living for X number of employees full-time...that's often not the case. A lot of excellent small game companies or miniatures companies are definitely "side jobs". There are heaps of small miniatures makers who've been trudging along since the 1980's, etc.

Even GW, for the size of the company, has a shockingly few employees (or has historically at least).
   
Made in us
Brigadier General






Chicago

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
@Eilif - it's only been the last couple years that Kingdom Death has gotten to be obviously self-sustaining *and* scalable. That is, the recent KS puts KD where they have the breadth of range, sheer sales volume and committed revenue and profit to exist as a long term entity.

The 9th Age is a generic not-WFB Fantasy ruleset that can use GW, Mantic or other 3rd party minis. It did great for a year and is petering out.


Good to know, thanks. I'll check it out.
I don't know anything about it but I would hope that one example wouldn't be used to indict all Generic rulesets. Even good free online generic rulesets tend to have a short period of widespread interest after which the dedicated fans will stick with them. Of course a small crew of dedicated fans is all most generic rulesets (free or for sale) have anyway.

However, for sale generic sets -usually supported by expansions and the attention of their creators- can live on for a fairly long time. Witness such as Song of Blades which has been going on for over a decade, being periodically updated and expanded. Other examples include Ambush Alley, Kings of War, Pulp Alley, 5150 and other THW reaction system games. These and many others are all games that have outlasted many larger mainstream games and are still being suported.

There are a slew of historical games that fit this same mold as well. Expanded over the years

GW's worst looking multipart plastics were more flexible and customizable than the best metal figs.



Spoiler:


WAT?


Not sure what you're point is about the wychs figs.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/10/07 18:03:38


Chicago Skirmish Wargames club. Join us for some friendly, casual gaming in the Windy City.
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My Project Log, mostly revolving around custom "Toybashed" terrain.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/651712.page

Visit the Chicago Valley Railroad!
https://chicagovalleyrailroad.blogspot.com 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





London

So i recently got into pirates of the spanish main, and i have a question.

/why did it die? From what i've read it was loved, had alot of support, and while some people didn't like the gold fetching being the main game, it seemed everyone homebrewed something fun out of it.

Was it simply that the company that acquired wizkids didn't want to keep supporting it?

   
Made in au
[MOD]
Making Stuff






Under the couch

I think PotSM just ran out of ideas. They kept trying to cram something bigger and more exciting into each set, and you can only push that so far.

Compounded by the fact that the lifespan on collectible format games tends to be limited anyway... There was a bit of a 'bubble' when PotSM was around, where collectible games were going gangbusters. They all sort of died off around the same time, with the exception of Heroclix which just kept chugging along under the new ownership.

It was a cool little game, though, and the everything-in-the-pack format was absolutely brilliant.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/07 20:00:03


 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





London

 insaniak wrote:
I think PotSM just ran out of ideas. They kept trying to cram something bigger and more exciting into each set, and you can only push that so far.

Compounded by the fact that the lifespan on collectible format games tends to be limited anyway... There was a bit of a 'bubble' when PotSM was around, where collectible games were going gangbusters. They all sort of died off around the same time, with the exception of Heroclix which just kept chugging along under the new ownership.

It was a cool little game, though, and the everything-in-the-pack format was absolutely brilliant.


I'm always confused how herclix keeps going. I sort of wonder if the company that bought out wizkids was owned by the worlds biggest heroclix fan and they just pump funding into it. IT never sold at work, and we'd have tournements with only 5 attendees only to be told that they were "huge" in the world of heroclix. I remember it being big when i was younger but that was when the figures were better.

I do wonder if pirates pumped out its expansions too fast? something like 14 expansions in 4 years? jesus! I can imagine some buyer fatigue setting in.

   
Made in au
[MOD]
Making Stuff






Under the couch

Yeah, there was a lot to keep up with,and it wasn't cheap if you were a completionist.


On Heroclix, I suspect that it falls into a similar category as GW's Lord of the Rings did - bought largely by people collecting it just for the miniatures, or people playing at home rather than out in public. This gives the impression of a game that is doing far worse than it actually is, because we never see anyone playing it.


Or, as you say, it's just being run by someone with very deep pockets who doesn't care that it's not making any money.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/07 20:20:01


 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





London

 insaniak wrote:
Yeah, there was a lot to keep up with,and it wasn't cheap if you were a completionist.


On Heroclix, I suspect that it falls into a similar category as GW's Lord of the Rings did - bought largely by people collecting it just for the miniatures, or people playing at home rather than out in public. This gives the impression of a game that is doing far worse than it actually is, because we never see anyone playing it.


Or, as you say, it's just being run by someone with very deep pockets who doesn't care that it's not making any money.


Good point, Lord of the rings is thriving in private.

There used to be a store in leicester that sold only heroclix and D&D miniatures, the old rubbery ones.

It was always packed full of heroclix players, and this was, as i say, around the time when the figures were good, back when theyd just got some big licenses.
it closed after a while, popped up, thrived, sank like a stone. the players never switched to another store or even seemed to lament it.
I think whoever aquired wizkids did it purely for the licences as they cut off everything that wasn't a third party IP/

   
Made in au
[MOD]
Making Stuff






Under the couch

Yeah, IIRC, the Wizkids buyout was pretty specifically to keep Heroclix going, rather than to take over everything that the previous Wizkids had been producing, although they appear to have branched out a little since then.




The fun thing with the 'behind the scenes' nature of LotR popularity is that people online were convinced that it was falling back when it was at its peak. That game provided a massive boost to GW, and was for a time outselling WHFB, which was still GW's flagship game at that point. But because the greater community didn't see anyone playing it, it was 'clearly' not selling.

 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





London

 insaniak wrote:
Yeah, IIRC, the Wizkids buyout was pretty specifically to keep Heroclix going, rather than to take over everything that the previous Wizkids had been producing, although they appear to have branched out a little since then.




The fun thing with the 'behind the scenes' nature of LotR popularity is that people online were convinced that it was falling back when it was at its peak. That game provided a massive boost to GW, and was for a time outselling WHFB, which was still GW's flagship game at that point. But because the greater community didn't see anyone playing it, it was 'clearly' not selling.


Yeah i see people calling for the games to be dropped every time forge world post something about it, saying no one plays it and it disracts from tehir game. They don't take into account that LoTR propelled gw enough in the early 2000s to actually expand like it did.


   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






SoCal, USA!

 Pacific wrote:
What's the connection between generic rules and 9th age?


JohnHwang I wish you would stop sticking the knife in and twisting whenever there is the opportunity, the kind of game represented by 9th Age and the like (similar games that exist as rulebook only, and live off other miniature ranges) aren't really the focus here and deflates the rest of otherwise (I think) well made points.


Dude, he's the one who raised generic rulesets, not me. If my on-topic reply just happens to allow me to grind my axe, am I to deny myself the opportunity?
____

 Eilif wrote:
 JohnHwangDD wrote:
@Eilif - it's only been the last couple years that Kingdom Death has gotten to be obviously self-sustaining *and* scalable. That is, the recent KS puts KD where they have the breadth of range, sheer sales volume and committed revenue and profit to exist as a long term entity.

The 9th Age is a generic not-WFB Fantasy ruleset that can use GW, Mantic or other 3rd party minis. It did great for a year and is petering out.


Good to know, thanks. I'll check it out.

I don't know anything about it but I would hope that one example wouldn't be used to indict all Generic rulesets.

GW's worst looking multipart plastics were more flexible and customizable than the best metal figs.


Spoiler:


WAT?


Not sure what you're point is about the wychs figs.


In the next few months, Kingdom Death will (finally!) be restocking core games with the 1.5 version. If one wanted to jump into the system, now is a good time to start saving your pennies, as the core will set you back at least $300 USD. Plus shipping. I'd budget $380 shipped against the $400 MSRP.

T9A is merely an example of a single, flawed rulest that is as flash in the pan as any of the formerly famous (but now closed) miniatures companies, and the games the once produced. Homebrews and generics will always exist as long as somebody thinks they can do better than the official rules.

The in-drag Wyches are awful. They might as well have prominent Adam's apples to go with the man hands, broad shoulders and square jaws.
____

 nicromancer wrote:
So i recently got into pirates of the spanish main, and i have a question.

/why did it die?

Was it simply that the company that acquired wizkids didn't want to keep supporting it?


Pirates is a great little game, and I have binders of the stuff. If you're looking for cards, I might have duplicates I can unload.

I think it was a corporate decision to focus on larger, more profitable lines after things kinda petered out. Ocean's Edge was a great set to close out the line, with really compelling variety of stuff to play with.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/10/07 21:25:23


   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





IL

I loved the Rocketmen game which was basically Pirates reskinned with a retro pulp sci fi look. It was a great throw back to Flash Gordon era stuff, but sadly the game never really caught on the way POSM did. The little shield and weapon nodes very small fiddly compared to the ship sails.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/07 21:50:01


Paulson Games parts are now at:
www.RedDogMinis.com 
   
 
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