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elyodd wrote:not sure if this has come up in this thread, but with the possible vanish of pariahs do we think that the age of the warscythe has come to an end.
Over the last few codex releases a few little flags were raised to me regarding this but the biggest were when the grey knights book came out.
Point is (I'm not sure if I'm the only one who noticed) where did all the stuff that could ignore inv saves go? Most of the demon-hunting weapons ignored them as demons were all about the inv saves but now they are just the same as everything else. But the big shock for me was this: C'tan phase sword, Now Just A Power Weapon.
If that's gone by the wayside then I'm sure warscythes and C'tan in any form will have done so the same way.

Here's hoping I'm wrong.

It's been discussed that warscythes might become a +2 str weapon (maybe power weapon?) and lose the invul ignore ability.

I doubt pariahs are going away as well, just probably in name but the model "should" be able to still be used.

There is still an elite (rumored) that is S5 T5 3+ w/warscythes afterall.

To that I must express a mixture of perturbed disquiet and dogged relief that is strictly impossible to describe. zuuur. Thanks though.

The whole Warscythe thing is fairly reasonable having things that ignore invulnerable saves is a little silly it leads to super invulnerable saves that can make saving throws against weapons that ignore them....

Remove it without removing the 2+3++ marine saves?

Now they ARE silly.

Unfortunately they are here to stay, being marine...

Yeah but now they pay for that

They did before, when it was just a 4+ in cc. It had a fairly radical juml in power for about the same points..

Massed firepower makes 2+3++ termies go EEP though

KarlPedder wrote:The whole Warscythe thing is fairly reasonable having things that ignore invulnerable saves is a little silly it leads to super invulnerable saves that can make saving throws against weapons that ignore them....

I have to disagree with this... The Warscythe (as is) is pretty necessary for crons to have any shadow of a chance in CC against high saves like termies without running a wraithwing. And these "super invulnerable saves" are yet to come about so I really don't see the issue, if people want to make a "super invuln save" simply roll it into the Eternal Warrior USR somehow.

Fr0z3n wrote:

KarlPedder wrote:The whole Warscythe thing is fairly reasonable having things that ignore invulnerable saves is a little silly it leads to super invulnerable saves that can make saving throws against weapons that ignore them....

I have to disagree with this... The Warscythe (as is) is pretty necessary for crons to have any shadow of a chance in CC against high saves like termies without running a wraithwing. And these "super invulnerable saves" are yet to come about so I really don't see the issue, if people want to make a "super invuln save" simply roll it into the Eternal Warrior USR somehow.

Well yes (although c'tan do work), but I bet many other changes are coming so no worries there. I am sure we will have some other way to kill termies as well as kill MEQs with FNP etc etc. And if not, well then not much has changed

If they are making then new warriors and immortals with tons of new upgrades that you have to take for the whole squad.
How will the warriors and immortals that we have now fare i wonder.

Will we use them or will they be obsolete compared to the new weapons.

If the warriors for instance keep there weapons and we get the standard. 3 warriors can change their gauss flayer for (insert weapon) then im still going to be able to use the ones i have and just insert the new upgrade weapons in the squads.
But i wonder, if the new weapon upgrades clearly outshine hte normal gauss flayer will i want to use them or do have to buy a whole new army?

This concerns me, but as i have said before.
Most, if not all of us will still in the end sit down, read the codex, be a little sad at first, then go buy more models and keep on playing.
I love my necrons for what they are. But with time i probably will love my new necrons aswell, even if they turn out to be something totally different to what i want now.

I just dont want GW to make the models i have now obsolete. Im having a kid in september. not going o have the same money to buy models then as i do now and dont want to quit my necrons because of money issues ither.



Regards Ogard

Reworking Ci'tan: Fine our GODS can take a back seat ... although i am not sure about the revolting vs the gods fluff i have heard about .

New WBB: We have to see what they do to Tomb Spyder ,That supposed Rez vehicle, and the cost of Rez orb on Crypteks .

Warscythe: I want to point out other newer armies can destroy Inv ++ Saves from war-gear all day, ::Cough :: (GK Assassin ).
But it being reduced to a power weapon is still good.

Warriors: 4+ still saves 1/2 the time + New WBB ... and hopefully 2/3s the cost

Gauss weapons: No rending fine .. not auto wounding will hurt. If they make Plastic affordable Immortals we can live with it, you just need some immortals.

Wraiths: Imo they are our Termies ... Power weapons would be OP though (High initiative w/ str 6 power weapons )
Rending would add a nice balanced boost. (3 man Squad: maybe 1 on a charge along 4-5 wounds with saves)
One could Argue if a Boost is needed ... <3 Wraiths.

Scarabs: If they let them in as is RUMORED ....

I dont think i like the idea of giving Necrons Vehicles though ... what good is a transport when with a single step i am across the Galaxy (Phase Technology).
However turning it into a Teleportation for a more reliable short jump i like. (Again i turn to their newest codex and see a Librarian with a similar power.)

-------------- Edit----------------------------------
(All Speculation)
I dont think we will have to change much in the way of Warriors, Monoliths, and Wraiths.
I think we will have more options but they will be limited to the Cyrpteks who can join our squads.

Spyders i think will change, All Destroyers will be lumped into 1 plastic kit that you get a verity of options from (Heavy, Standard, maybe melee)
Lord will be a Plastic kit with options for all but you will see new HQ lords if you so desire to add them.

Then add in all the new stuff.

Anpu-adom wrote:Hmm...

On the GW website:
Pariahs, Immortals, Flayed Ones, and Tomb Spyders are marked "No Longer Available".

Everything else is from shipping in 24 hours to shipping in 2-3 weeks.

Wuoldn't this be because they are all metal kits that have been discontinued to make way for the Fine Cast revolution?

I see the warsythe becoming a basic power weapon due to the trend of shifting away from ++ beating weapons. However the recent DE codex has several weapons which simply 'remove models from play' if certain characteristics tests are failed. This trumps even eternal warrior. The vindi
care is fairly fluffy in the way it shield breaks wargear but someone like Lelith Hesperax is unaffected because her 3++ comes from quicksilver dodge

Much as I love the look of horror and impotent anger on my opponents faces as the Deciever turns his TH/SS terms into glove puppets, I would rather see Wraiths with power weapons in bigger squads (3-5). I think GW would like this as a finecast Wraith will be around £13, and even a plastic remake will probably be around £20 for three.

Armour eating scarabs will be awesome but it will be shame to loose the turboboost ability. Still, if they gain access to decent protected deepstrike or outflank or even monthlith portals and the VoD they won't miss being jetbikes.

I hope this is true and the new codex has some new cool units and troops

Didn't i read somewhere that Scarabs will count as Beasts? If this is the case then i think they can move 12" adn charge 12", so they still get the 24" movement but now they can charge after it!!



Saying that i might be getting mixed up with cavalry rules......

I'm going to hope aganst hope for the best at this point

*sticks fingers in ears*

la la la LA la LA LA la...

(i know i'm going to be crushingly disappointed and either drop the army or adjust to the new version, but i can pretend, for a brief shining moment, that it won't get completely fethed up )

Praxiss wrote:Didn't i read somewhere that Scarabs will count as Beasts? If this is the case then i think they can move 12" adn charge 12", so they still get the 24" movement but now they can charge after it!!



Saying that i might be getting mixed up with cavalry rules......

From what I can remember in 40k it's 6" move and a 12" charge, which is plenty if you can teleport about.


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More Blood of Kittens stuff here, a dump truck of salt would be useful but this stuff sounds awesome if true:

Apparently the last one went over well. So I get to do more of them! Any time internet guys stop complaining about Matt Ward long enough to complain about me… I like to do that thing over again.
Did I mention how much I love the Matt Ward hate? Cus most of it is ridiculous… like complaining about his balance in the same sentence as they complain about Space Wolves and Imperial Guard. OOOH, or whining about his terrible fluff when it holds up just fine to all the rest… I mean… there is an entire army of Football Hooligans. This game is INSANE, why so serious?
But I digress. Time to dig into my bag of dice and drop the trusty d6 and pic an Elite. Mmm savory-savory elites. Over on the REAL Earth we love elites. Most armies fill up all 3. Maybe it’s a different metagame, maybe it’s our love of fried cucumber. I don’t know and I don’t pretend to know.
So yeah, who wants to hear about the new jump infantry? Well to bad, I rolled up C’tan. Shall I start with the part that will freak people out? The C’Tan done got overthrown by the Necrons, they are the slaves. It’s actually pretty cool when everyone is done clinching their bums. The shards of those gods serve as weapons of war in service of the Necron Empire. Also, they might not all be dead, so you know, these are just the ones the Necrons dominated.
So, they start off at a bit under 200 points, their stats are more or less the same as before. They have everything a monstrous creature needs (Eternal Warrior, Fearless) and there are nearly a dozen options for them to take. You can use those points to create the C’Tan you’re used to seeing, or you can mix and match as you see fit. Who knows what god your particular Shard came from! The abilities range from 10 to 50 points, so I’ll tackle them in some random and useless order.
First is the ability to decay vehicles and armour like some other Necron units. Considering the power of a monstrous creature against both armour saves and vehicles, this one isn’t so hot, but it is cheap.
I often wish I could look at someone and kill them. Like you, the person reading this right now. Well that’s how this gaze works as well. Slap the large blast down on top of the C’tan and you hit everything but the C’tan with a str 3 hit, no armour allowed. Then, if you kill at least one dudemans you get a wound back.
The classic Illusion power of the deceiver still allows you to redeploy 1d3 units after scouts moves. I like that one a lot. Lets you deploy first, put a big line of 20 warriors up front, shoves the enemy back… then BAM, they back with the phalanx.
Some god’s really like fire, and can make any flame/fire/heat/warm/dutch oven weapons explode like plasma weapons. It’s particularly good against all the close range melta that put wounds on a C’tan.
Two shooting attacks aren’t bad at all, and the C’tan can take a large blast or an assault 8, both at strength 4. It gets the job done and lets them effect the battle field before they can assault. A thirds one is a bit bigger, clocking in at lascannon stats at half the range.
Another neat trick its jabbing with the world, causing everything within assault distance of the C’Tan to test dangerous terrain, or to mishap more often on deep strike. It’s a clever way to put some wounds on a horde.
Kick up some dust and you get assault and defensive grenades, as well as stealth. It may not sound that useful, but defensive grenades really slow down the “loads of attacks” approach to killing a C’tan, and stealth is better than you think, considering that a 4+ invulnerable isn’t better than most cover… but a 3+ cover (when it happens) is nice. Oh, and Monoliths are big enough to block.
Like monsters that mess with temporal anomalies? Then look no further. Rip em up with C’tan, if they fail a single initiative test BAM, no saves of any kind… one model of your choice is just gone (in the assault). Say goodbye to that pesky warboss or nidzilla monster.
Last, but not least, or maybe least. No this one is awesome. How about the whole battlefield is difficult and dangerous terrain? Yeah… yeah I like that one too. Makes the C’tan a pretty big target though.
So all in all, if you took every ability, you’d be dropping 505 points on a single C’tan. Obviously that would be silly, but if you accept a Land Raider level price tag you can get a powerful monster that really shapes your battle plans. Or better yet… 3.

Praxiss wrote:Didn't i read somewhere that Scarabs will count as Beasts? If this is the case then i think they can move 12" adn charge 12", so they still get the 24" movement but now they can charge after it!

6" move, 12" asault, but fleet as well.

That's the one. So potentially stil an extra 6" of movemet for the scarabs. Seeing as before they could move 12 and assault 6, with no Fleet.

Is nobody interested in the BoK stuff in my post or is it old news?

Looks interesting. Not sure how they are going to justify the robotic Necrons overthrowing a load of gods but we'll see how it pans out.

It's an advance in the fluff, but sounds good if well written.

Praxiss wrote:Looks interesting. Not sure how they are going to justify the robotic Necrons overthrowing a load of gods but we'll see how it pans out.

Guess its that ultra elite technology they got going? Like Batman and his gadget belt that seems to have a tool for every job now the necrons found their enslaving c'tan tool. Bear in mind they might be call Star Gods but they were never like the Emperor or the Dark powers just a extremely old and powerful race that the Necrons worshipped and well you know the rest of the story!

Praxiss wrote:

Anpu-adom wrote:Hmm...

On the GW website:
Pariahs, Immortals, Flayed Ones, and Tomb Spyders are marked "No Longer Available".

Everything else is from shipping in 24 hours to shipping in 2-3 weeks.

Wuoldn't this be because they are all metal kits that have been discontinued to make way for the Fine Cast revolution?

I thought about that, but then why are the C'tan and Wraiths still available?

Tyrs13 wrote:*Snip*New WBB: We have to see what they do to Tomb Spyder ,That supposed Rez vehicle, and the cost of Rez orb on Crypteks .

Warscythe: I want to point out other newer armies can destroy Inv ++ Saves from war-gear all day, ::Cough :: (GK Assassin ).
But it being reduced to a power weapon is still good.

Warriors: 4+ still saves 1/2 the time + New WBB ... and hopefully 2/3s the cost

No, see, what this means is that when they get their save they save 1/2 the time but giving them a 4+ save opens up sooooo many more weapons that just ignore their armor now. So they get that 50/50 save a lot less now. I don't know about you but the guy I play against has very few guns with AP5 or worse. (Black Templar)

Gauss weapons: No rending fine .. not auto wounding will hurt. If they make Plastic affordable Immortals we can live with it, you just need some immortals.

When did the auto-wound EVER matter in the past like 5 years. Maybe against like 1 or 2 models that were probably rarely used against a necron army anyway. It's not a big loss and will not "hurt".

Wraiths: Imo they are our Termies ... Power weapons would be OP though (High initiative w/ str 6 power weapons )
Rending would add a nice balanced boost. (3 man Squad: maybe 1 on a charge along 4-5 wounds with saves)
One could Argue if a Boost is needed ... <3 Wraiths.

I'm sorry, wraiths with power weapons would be cheese? If they stayed at a unit of 3 they still wouldn't have the 30 attacks of a ten man terminator squad on the charge with power weapons that re-roll wounds (and hits if black templar with the vow to do so). Or is it 40 attacks on the charge with dual lightning claws? Even a wraith wing couldn't do that.

Scarabs: If they let them in as is RUMORED ....

Why? It's not much difference from lance effects.

I dont think i like the idea of giving Necrons Vehicles though ... what good is a transport when with a single step i am across the Galaxy (Phase Technology).
However turning it into a Teleportation for a more reliable short jump i like. (Again i turn to their newest codex and see a Librarian with a similar power.)

-------------- Edit----------------------------------
(All Speculation)
I dont think we will have to change much in the way of Warriors, Monoliths, and Wraiths.
I think we will have more options but they will be limited to the Cyrpteks who can join our squads.

Spyders i think will change, All Destroyers will be lumped into 1 plastic kit that you get a verity of options from (Heavy, Standard, maybe melee)
Lord will be a Plastic kit with options for all but you will see new HQ lords if you so desire to add them.

Then add in all the new stuff.

Warriors:
4+ is only really negated by heavy weapons.

So at best i can think of is Eldar/DE and their 6 Shot Cannon? And you still get your WBB saves from them which can be a 4+ with a rez orb. (Thats almost a 4++ save now).
Idk what your Black Templar friend is fielding (Dont have Codex), but if he has so many AP 4 its Black Templar Specific.

I have hopes that the new WBB works with power weapons now leaving us breathing room in melees. If i have to give up 3+ armor for that fine as above we can live with it.

Guass:
When they throw down a Toughness 8 creature that rapes in CC, what do we have to kill it before it gets to us?
Destroyers and Immortals is it. Which is why in our current state Destroyers have become a must have to survive.
While everyone else can get their Heavy Weapons in their Troops choice to take it down ...

Immortals troop choice will help with their str 6 weapons but other then that we have to take up other slots.
(If they come in Plastic squads then i wont really care about the Guass change really)

Scarabs:
Is there a lance weapon that can shoot a squad (5 models x4 charge) 20 times in 1 round removing their armor? As opposed to a Lance that is just a Melta Weapon that also lowers Vehicle Armor to 10.
Its really cool new idea vs Vehicles but there are so many ways it can be abused.

Wraiths:
There is no Strength 6 power weapon that should go at initiative 6.
Think of a what a Powerfist with initiative 6 would do ... its almost the same effect minus insta death. No army should have an I win button for any kind of combat.
You can have an advantage but it should a chance to save or cost a hell of a lot.

Tyrs13 wrote:Warriors:
4+ is only really negated by heavy weapons.

So at best i can think of is Eldar/DE and their 6 Shot Cannon? And you still get your WBB saves from them which can be a 4+ with a rez orb. (Thats almost a 4++ save now).
Idk what your Black Templar friend is fielding (Dont have Codex), but if he has so many AP 4 its Black Templar Specific.

I think he is referring to things like autocannons, assault cannons, heavy flamers, heavy bolters, psycannons, eldar missile launchers (plasma) and the like, which many armies have in spades. Sterngaurd have ap4 as well although they are much, much rarer. And the 6 shot cannon is ap5, the eldar scatter laser is ap6

I have hopes that the new WBB works with power weapons now leaving us breathing room in melees. If i have to give up 3+ armor for that fine as above we can live with it.

Guass:
When they throw down a Toughness 8 creature that rapes in CC, what do we have to kill it before it gets to us?
Destroyers and Immortals is it. Which is why in our current state Destroyers have become a must have to survive.
While everyone else can get their Heavy Weapons in their Troops choice to take it down ...

Immortals troop choice will help with their str 6 weapons but other then that we have to take up other slots.
(If they come in Plastic squads then i wont really care about the Guass change really)

immortals have s5, there are 2 creatures I can think of that have t8, wraithlords and C'tan and that is about it. Necrons are being changed and wraithlords don't see competitive play. Its the t6 creatures that are a pain and people use heavy weapons on them because you can wound easier and ignore their armor save, although bolters/massed fire can cause a wound it is unlikely

Scarabs:
Is there a lance weapon that can shoot a squad (5 models x4 charge) 20 times in 1 round removing their armor? As opposed to a Lance that is just a Melta Weapon that also lowers Vehicle Armor to 10.
Its really cool new idea vs Vehicles but there are so many ways it can be abused.

Wraiths:
There is no Strength 6 power weapon that should go at initiative 6.
Think of a what a Powerfist with initiative 6 would do ... its almost the same effect minus insta death. No army should have an I win button for any kind of combat.
You can have an advantage but it should a chance to save or cost a hell of a lot.

This I agree with. If they stay s6 and I6 then it should be rending and I would very happy. Increase in squad sizes would also be wonderful but I am just wishlisting.

As to the BoK rumors, I am interested. I think that if they are advancing the fluff I am happy with that. I can see the 'crons getting fed up with letting the star gods walk all over them. It will be interesting to make them customizable. It doesnt sound like I will be able to pull the normal deceiver shenanigans with jumping in and out of combat and basically assaulting 19'' per turn after the first combat, but thats ok. Maybe just keep him cheap as a deterrent.

Tyrs13 wrote:Warriors:
4+ is only really negated by heavy weapons.

So at best i can think of is Eldar/DE and their 6 Shot Cannon? And you still get your WBB saves from them which can be a 4+ with a rez orb. (Thats almost a 4++ save now).
Idk what your Black Templar friend is fielding (Dont have Codex), but if he has so many AP 4 its Black Templar Specific.

I have hopes that the new WBB works with power weapons now leaving us breathing room in melees. If i have to give up 3+ armor for that fine as above we can live with it.

Vehicles and walkers, lots of them. Plasma weapons. Meltas. Those things aren't heavy and the weapons that are Heavy are on vehicles so it doesn't matter.

Guass:
When they throw down a Toughness 8 creature that rapes in CC, what do we have to kill it before it gets to us?
Destroyers and Immortals is it. Which is why in our current state Destroyers have become a must have to survive.
While everyone else can get their Heavy Weapons in their Troops choice to take it down ...

Well, lets say the auto wound was taken away right now. We could use Lords, Pariahs, Immortals, Destroyers, Wraiths, Heavy Destroyers, Tomb Spyder with Cannon on it, Monolith, C'tan. So ya, that really just leaves us with warriors, flayed ones and scarabs that couldn't do anything about it (and currently, 2 of those 3 still can't). Not to mention, there's not really any T8 creatures out there anymore. Closest one is the tomb stalker that is T7 and that's a FW model. So it doesn't count.

Immortals troop choice will help with their str 6 weapons but other then that we have to take up other slots.
(If they come in Plastic squads then i wont really care about the Guass change really)

Scarabs:
Is there a lance weapon that can shoot a squad (5 models x4 charge) 20 times in 1 round removing their armor? As opposed to a Lance that is just a Melta Weapon that also lowers Vehicle Armor to 10.
Its really cool new idea vs Vehicles but there are so many ways it can be abused.

Well...considering the "squad" in question would have to be comprised of 2+ wound models for that effect to happen, first off, I doubt the scarabs would last long enough in CC against them for it to matter. I only referenced lance weapons because they're the only thing I know that makes armor count as less than it is, which is "kind of" what scarabs are doing. It's just a permanent change instead of temporary, and honestly do you think a vehicle would last long with AV lowering attacks? I mean, how easy it it for lance armies to take out vehicles?

Wraiths:
There is no Strength 6 power weapon that should go at initiative 6.
Think of a what a Powerfist with initiative 6 would do ... its almost the same effect minus insta death. No army should have an I win button for any kind of combat.
You can have an advantage but it should a chance to save or cost a hell of a lot.

I'm sure that there are a number of monstrous creatures, daemons, or some other such craziness that have s6+ with an initiative that high, or something else to equal it out (super high WS for instance). How is it an "I win" button? They don't have the same save as terminators (with storm shields), they're not fearless and don't have ATSKNF so they can still get run down. They have a much smaller squad size requiring more slots to be taken up to equal that of ONE selection of terminators.

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tiekwando wrote:
This I agree with. If they stay s6 and I6 then it should be rending and I would very happy. Increase in squad sizes would also be wonderful but I am just wishlisting.

As to the BoK rumors, I am interested. I think that if they are advancing the fluff I am happy with that. I can see the 'crons getting fed up with letting the star gods walk all over them. It will be interesting to make them customizable. It doesnt sound like I will be able to pull the normal deceiver shenanigans with jumping in and out of combat and basically assaulting 19'' per turn after the first combat, but thats ok. Maybe just keep him cheap as a deterrent.

Honestly, I'd be happy with rending as well, but I'd be much happier with power weapons.

The only non-Ctan T8 creature in the is the Wraithlord. I'm not too worried.

Also please stop using the term 'raped' to refer to being destroyed in close combat.

Hit up a dictionary if confused as to why. It isn't funny.

Tyrs13 wrote:Wraiths:
There is no Strength 6 power weapon that should go at initiative 6.
Think of a what a Powerfist with initiative 6 would do ... its almost the same effect minus insta death. No army should have an I win button for any kind of combat.
You can have an advantage but it should a chance to save or cost a hell of a lot.

You mean other than the Swarmlord, which is also WS9 with 5 wounds? And the 'Nids have a couple more with similar strength and initiative whilst also being Monstrous Creatures - their downside is that they're one-offs rather than units, but I expect that the Wraiths will also have their downsides (personally I think they'll lose their invulnerable but gain some sort of permanent cover save, stay at 1 wound, have average (4) WS and toughness and obviously no guns). But like the Lictor, their closests equivalent, I doubt they'll be cheap.
Power weapons fit their fluff far too well for them not to get them IMO

EDIT: Also, am I the only one that doesn't like the fact that they seem to be writing the Pariah Gene and Mutes out of the game?

Grim.Badger wrote:

Tyrs13 wrote:Wraiths:
There is no Strength 6 power weapon that should go at initiative 6.
Think of a what a Powerfist with initiative 6 would do ... its almost the same effect minus insta death. No army should have an I win button for any kind of combat.
You can have an advantage but it should a chance to save or cost a hell of a lot.

You mean other than the Swarmlord, which is also WS9 with 5 wounds? And the 'Nids have a couple more with similar strength and initiative whilst also being Monstrous Creatures - their downside is that they're one-offs rather than units, but I expect that the Wraiths will also have their downsides (personally I think they'll lose their invulnerable but gain some sort of permanent cover save, stay at 1 wound, have average (4) WS and toughness and obviously no guns). But like the Lictor, their closests equivalent, I doubt they'll be cheap.
Power weapons fit their fluff far too well for them not to get them IMO

who knows maybe they will get necroclaws-counts as warscythe for rules purposes