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Darkjediben wrote:Then go play that game. Nobody is asking you to "teach this game to your students". There are plenty of us that enjoy a little added complexity in our games, as shown by the large number of people who play warhammer. If you don't like it, go play something else.

Thank you for your opinion. Matter of fact, I have been asked to teach this game to my students. Seems that I will start with 'something else', however.

Kevin949 wrote:

Meh, the game is still fun. As long as you play for fun anyway. Tourneys can get heated in rules debates from what I hear (I don't play in tourneys). Anyway, even a game like warmachine will have it's facets of rules that are just ridiculous or don't make any sense to you (I've read over the quick start, and I'm interested in it but I can see some stuff that would make it stale). Just because there's one facet of the way the game plays that you (by your own admission) don't understand and haven't played doesn't mean anything. Try playing the game (an actual game, not what the red shirts in the store have you do as a "trial") and you'll get it. You'll see that terrain layout can make or break your game. Heck, if you don't like the terrain rules then don't play with them. You don't HAVE to follow every rule if you're playing with friends.

Thank you for the reminder, that I am not an expert on these games and that certain rules can be ignored if they get in the way of fun.

necr0n wrote:

Fr0z3n wrote:

Praxiss wrote:Same here

I agree but, the one thing I'm not looking forward to is the assumed inevitability that all of these will be strictly >Transports< and not highly-mobile monolith portals as I would hope they would be (and the fluff would dictate they should be)...

It'll be interesting to see what they end up being or if they even exist... Personally, I find a good amount of Yak's rumours highly improbable and find other rumour sets equally or more plausible.

Its a new codex, brand new fluff. Dont compare what seems to be the new rules/units with the old fluff(Which was nearly zero) as there will be new fluff supporting those units and rules. Necrons might be some undead chicken tomorrow and happy clowns. That WILL be their fluff and they will never be refered to as undead machines. They wont be no more. Current fluff is for the current rules/units. Get over it. Its gonna change. I know this will probably upset some people but the new fluff cant be any worst. We currently have nearly no fluff, anything will be an improvement. And who knoes in the end we might all like the transports.

"the old fluff(Which was nearly zero)" ........ the Fall of Damnos book (that's by no stretch of the imagination "old") is nearly zero? I find it funny you consider an entirely necron-devoted Black Library novel "nearly nothing" .... insert 25 cents and try again?

http://www.blacklibrary.com/all-products/Fall-of-Damnos.html

EDITS: Grammar, Link

It is necron themed, but doesn't really answer much about the Necrons (where they came from, what they are like, how their science works etc) at all. It barely even describes the necrons.

All you really get from the novel is that the Lords are bat-crap crazy and die way too easily

Also the Fall of Damnos is supposed to end with a hurried evacuation of the planet, leaving the Necrons the victors.
(source- 5th ed rulebook, and earlier fluff)

The novel doesn't end this way at all. It might do if it was continued to that point in the fluff, but the way it is written suggests a marine assault far more than a fighting retreat. The book ends in the middle of the story, effectively, before the marines get their power-armoured butts handed to them and are driven off the planet.

It's a good read, but definitely marine flavoured, like almost all BL books. It gives buckets more fluff about the Ultramarines (like we needed more) than it does about the Necrons.

Ascalam wrote:It is necron themed, but doesn't really answer much about the Necrons (where they came from, what they are like, how their science works etc) at all. It barely even describes the necrons.

All you really get from the novel is that the Lords are bat-crap crazy and die way too easily

Also the Fall of Damnos is supposed to end with a hurried evacuation of the planet, leaving the Necrons the victors.
(source- 5th ed rulebook, and earlier fluff)

The novel doesn't end this way at all. It might do if it was continued to that point in the fluff, but the way it is written suggests a marine assault far more than a fighting retreat. The book ends in the middle of the story, effectively, before the marines get their power-armoured butts handed to them and are driven off the planet.

It's a good read, but definitely marine flavoured, like almost all BL books. It gives buckets more fluff about the Ultramarines (like we needed more) than it does about the Necrons.

I agree, but it does give us bare-bones Necron fluff including acknowledgements of their technology being eons ahead of any race in the universe... that's always been their fluff and there's an exact quote in the Necron Codex, FoD book and maybe the 5th ed rulebook(?) that's either that same wording or something along those lines...

You can't tell me I'm the only one who finds it a little funky that a race, who is exclusively described as having technology beyond the comprehension of any other race in the universe, is floating around on open-topped skimmers after openly displaying a powerful aptitude for teleportation technologies....

Do you see the disconnect?

I do

I'm not exactly sold on the skimmers myself, though i wont officially hate them until i can see one close up and read the codex.

I would by far prefer deep-strikable 'drop pod' gates (a cross between webway portal and drop pod) but if GW finds out i like something they invariably make the opposite or discontnue it if it already exists.

My question- If they have a gun powerful enough to vaporise a battleship why are they bothering shelling a city?

Also why are they plodding around in small units being bolter-bait instead of fooosh- fooming to a spot behind the Big Shoulderpad Smurfs and gunning them down , preferably with overwhelming firepower

I want to read a BL book that follows the art from rogue trader/2nd edition. It was common then for the marines to be in 'famous last stand' arrangements, being gunned down by the other folk. I want a book where the marine commanders go down like chumps to one or two xeno basic troopers It would be a refreshing change

Any idea when gw is gonna put out a date?

Given the data clampdown, nothing solid.

Best guess is August so far i think.

totentanzen wrote:Any idea when gw is gonna put out a date?

Some time between now and "the day after never."

Fr0z3n wrote:

Ascalam wrote:It is necron themed, but doesn't really answer much about the Necrons (where they came from, what they are like, how their science works etc) at all. It barely even describes the necrons.

All you really get from the novel is that the Lords are bat-crap crazy and die way too easily

Also the Fall of Damnos is supposed to end with a hurried evacuation of the planet, leaving the Necrons the victors.
(source- 5th ed rulebook, and earlier fluff)

The novel doesn't end this way at all. It might do if it was continued to that point in the fluff, but the way it is written suggests a marine assault far more than a fighting retreat. The book ends in the middle of the story, effectively, before the marines get their power-armoured butts handed to them and are driven off the planet.

It's a good read, but definitely marine flavoured, like almost all BL books. It gives buckets more fluff about the Ultramarines (like we needed more) than it does about the Necrons.

There are a total of 4 books I can think of that mention necrons and only one of them feature them prominantly, the Fall of Damnos, Dead Men Walking (though its all from the imperial guard side) then there is Nightbringer (i think a total of 1 chapter) and then finally one of the Dark Apostle books (might even be called that, has about 10 pages). So yeah necrons do not have a whole lot on them. Except for being masters of science.

totentanzen wrote:Any idea when gw is gonna put out a date?

Release is pretty resoundingly rumoured to be in August. However, There are no more Incoming! emails thus, we have not the foggiest idea. They could do some sort of Incoming-esque preview or they could be shutting down the spoilers entirely until a week or 2 before release.

Seeing as they need time to wrack up a pre-order base, I would have to assume that from a business perspective they logically should let us know within the next 2-3 weeks tops. But lets face it, GW... logical? Let's not keep our fingers crossed.

I really wish they wouldn't have killed the Incoming! e-mail's. I'm trying to decide on whether or not to start my necron army now or wait.

Ascalam wrote:My question- If they have a gun powerful enough to vaporise a battleship why are they bothering shelling a city?

Also why are they plodding around in small units being bolter-bait instead of fooosh- fooming to a spot behind the Big Shoulderpad Smurfs and gunning them down , preferably with overwhelming firepower

1. Quite simply, it's not as scary. Necrons like to destroy all major threats, then take their time destroying the rest, it makes their victory more delicious. At least, that's what I drew from it.

2. Because otherwise the Marines wouldn't win

voryn15 wrote:I really wish they wouldn't have killed the Incoming! e-mail's. I'm trying to decide on whether or not to start my necron army now or wait.

monoliths and warriors are probably safe as far as rumors are concerned. Otherwise who knows

tiekwando wrote:

Fr0z3n wrote:

Ascalam wrote:It is necron themed, but doesn't really answer much about the Necrons (where they came from, what they are like, how their science works etc) at all. It barely even describes the necrons.

All you really get from the novel is that the Lords are bat-crap crazy and die way too easily

Also the Fall of Damnos is supposed to end with a hurried evacuation of the planet, leaving the Necrons the victors.
(source- 5th ed rulebook, and earlier fluff)

The novel doesn't end this way at all. It might do if it was continued to that point in the fluff, but the way it is written suggests a marine assault far more than a fighting retreat. The book ends in the middle of the story, effectively, before the marines get their power-armoured butts handed to them and are driven off the planet.

It's a good read, but definitely marine flavoured, like almost all BL books. It gives buckets more fluff about the Ultramarines (like we needed more) than it does about the Necrons.

There are a total of 4 books I can think of that mention necrons and only one of them feature them prominantly, the Fall of Damnos, Dead Men Walking (though its all from the imperial guard side) then there is Nightbringer (i think a total of 1 chapter) and then finally one of the Dark Apostle books (might even be called that, has about 10 pages). So yeah necrons do not have a whole lot on them. Except for being masters of science.

5 including Hell Forged the Soul Drinkers Novel

Scarey Nerd wrote:

Ascalam wrote:My question- If they have a gun powerful enough to vaporise a battleship why are they bothering shelling a city?

Also why are they plodding around in small units being bolter-bait instead of fooosh- fooming to a spot behind the Big Shoulderpad Smurfs and gunning them down , preferably with overwhelming firepower

1. Quite simply, it's not as scary. Necrons like to destroy all major threats, then take their time destroying the rest, it makes their victory more delicious. At least, that's what I drew from it.

2. Because otherwise the Marines wouldn't win

It doesn't come across as scary in the seige situation either It's more a case of 'oh look! Marines Now we can't lose '

Scary would be a company landing, and getting whittled down to a squad, one by one, with them all wounded and getting freaked out despite their impressive training, preferably running low on ammo or out altogether and having to scavenge it from their eviscerated buddies Just saying..

The bits with the scarabs and spyders tunnelling in and killing is nicely creepy, but the rest of it just makes the Necron Lords look incompetent

Re 2/. They're not supposed to win this one :( It would be like having the Sororitas win Sanctuary 101

Just because BL has a severe case of priapism for the Marines shouldn't mean that they get to rewrite every loss as a win *rant*

They always will, though

tiekwando wrote:
There are a total of 4 books I can think of that mention necrons and only one of them feature them prominantly, the Fall of Damnos, Dead Men Walking (though its all from the imperial guard side) then there is Nightbringer (i think a total of 1 chapter) and then finally one of the Dark Apostle books (might even be called that, has about 10 pages). So yeah necrons do not have a whole lot on them. Except for being masters of science.

Well NIGHTBRINGER was more than just a chapter about Necrons it was about a crazy human and Dark Eldar thinking they could control the Nightbringer once he released or woke it or whatever. My beef with that book was that they made The Nightbringer afraid of a melta bomb. I know it won’t kill you but you will be trapped underneath all this rubble blah blah blah. Like he couldn’t just phase through the rubble!

But i would like to hear more about the battle in the current Necrons codex with it Cadians being slaughtered or the BTs getting waxed and that Marshal Augustine was killed by wraiths. That story mentioned all kinds of different Necrons, not just "tall metal skeletons with glowing green eyes and guns". It really bugs me when that is the only description these books ever use for them. But then again Nightbringer is the only one I've read yet. Hopefully they aren’t as bland in the others as soon plan to get them.

lowmanjason wrote:
Well NIGHTBRINGER was more than just a chapter about Necrons it was about a crazy human and Dark Eldar thinking they could control the Nightbringer once he released or woke it or whatever. My beef with that book was that they made The Nightbringer afraid of a melta bomb. I know it won’t kill you but you will be trapped underneath all this rubble blah blah blah. Like he couldn’t just phase through the rubble!

But i would like to hear more about the battle in the current Necrons codex with it Cadians being slaughtered or the BTs getting waxed and that Marshal Augustine was killed by wraiths. That story mentioned all kinds of different Necrons, not just "tall metal skeletons with glowing green eyes and guns". It really bugs me when that is the only description these books ever use for them. But then again Nightbringer is the only one I've read yet. Hopefully they aren’t as bland in the others as soon plan to get them.

I did think the bit with the Nightbringer and the Meltabomb was a bit weird, but assumed that it was because he was weak or that he didn't want the key to his mega-ship being destroyed - what I'd like to see is the Nghtbringer taking his legions to Macragge to get his key back I did like the hidden point though that the Nightbringer had orchestrated the whole scenario from within his sleep! That's why the Human guy had such terrible visions and the need to inflict pain etc.

Dead Men Walking shows the difference in deployment between Warriors, Immortals and Wraiths and the ease with which the Necrons can push back Imperial forces but the protagonists are unlikeable making it a rather dull read.

On the subject of "new" models, I like the sketch of the floating Rhino/mini monolith - as others have said, I'd much rather that than floating boats which would remind me too much of DE even if they are totally different boat types.

Fr0z3n wrote:

necr0n wrote:

Fr0z3n wrote:

Praxiss wrote:Same here

I agree but, the one thing I'm not looking forward to is the assumed inevitability that all of these will be strictly >Transports< and not highly-mobile monolith portals as I would hope they would be (and the fluff would dictate they should be)...

It'll be interesting to see what they end up being or if they even exist... Personally, I find a good amount of Yak's rumours highly improbable and find other rumour sets equally or more plausible.

Its a new codex, brand new fluff. Dont compare what seems to be the new rules/units with the old fluff(Which was nearly zero) as there will be new fluff supporting those units and rules. Necrons might be some undead chicken tomorrow and happy clowns. That WILL be their fluff and they will never be refered to as undead machines. They wont be no more. Current fluff is for the current rules/units. Get over it. Its gonna change. I know this will probably upset some people but the new fluff cant be any worst. We currently have nearly no fluff, anything will be an improvement. And who knoes in the end we might all like the transports.

"the old fluff(Which was nearly zero)" ........ the Fall of Damnos book (that's by no stretch of the imagination "old") is nearly zero? I find it funny you consider an entirely necron-devoted Black Library novel "nearly nothing" .... insert 25 cents and try again?

http://www.blacklibrary.com/all-products/Fall-of-Damnos.html

EDITS: Grammar, Link

Duuuude... hold on a sec... We seriously know nothing about necrons... There is no fluff.The only fluff we've got is "war in heaven" in the codex and the brand new(possibly based on the new 'dex's fluff) Fall of Damnos. And to tell you the truth, i have read it and didnt find anything new.. Exept the architects and the wakening part, I got no new things for necrons. Also, FoD is devoted on space-marines... Seriously, have you read it?

I just bought the battle force and 3 more destroyers, waiting before I get the rest, might get a monolith (can't go wrong)

since the warriors will get cheaper (points) I am sure of transports is there I will be able to take them and fit into my army list.

voryn15 wrote:I really wish they wouldn't have killed the Incoming! e-mail's. I'm trying to decide on whether or not to start my necron army now or wait.

I did, just stick to Warriors, Monolith, and Scarabs(?). I bought a battleforce and a warrior squad to give me a solid base of 40 warriors and 10 scarabs (cause scarabs are gonna be cranked OP apparently) and the destroyers will, if nothing else, provide REALLY nice bits to convert with and it's still ultimately cheaper.

Duuuude... hold on a sec... We seriously know nothing about necrons... There is no fluff.The only fluff we've got is "war in heaven" in the codex and the brand new(possibly based on the new 'dex's fluff) Fall of Damnos. And to tell you the truth, i have read it and didnt find anything new.. Exept the architects and the wakening part, I got no new things for necrons. Also, FoD is devoted on space-marines... Seriously, have you read it?

You use the phrase "no fluff" too loosely. We know a lot more than you care to acknowledge:

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Necron
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Necrontyr
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Necron_Quotes

Get Educated. (it's all sourced to candid, GW-published works)

EDITS: Grammar and "Quote"-augmenation

Fr0z3n wrote:"Look at Lexicanum links for Necron fluff"Paraphrased

Lexicanum wrote:Now focusing on gathering souls, the C'tan assaulted the dominant species at the time, the Old Ones, and began an unstoppable march upon their domain. The Necrons burst into the Old Ones strongest fortresses, overcoming their magics and technology and forced the Old Ones to seed planets with life to help fight the C'tan, including the Eldar and Krork. These races had the ability to use the Warp to defend themselves, as the C'tan seemed harmed only by psychic energy. Gradually, the Old Ones were forced back by the relentless push of the C'tan and billions of souls were harvested for the Star Gods, increasing their power to incredible proportions.

The C'tan had been working on a plan to cripple the Old Ones, and eventually it came to fruition. They burst into and destroyed the Webway discovered by the Old Ones. Without these portals, the Old Ones were unable to move troops throughout the galaxy. With the new races using so much Warp power for the purposes of killing, the benign creatures in the Warp mutated into the evil creatures they are today. At the precipice of victory, the Enslavers emerged from the now-tumultuous Warp and forced the C'tan and their slaves back, by preying on the younger races and starving them of the precious lifeforce they need to feed upon. The C'tan began to consume their own kind, eventually leaving only four remaining who then went into stasis to avoid the onslaught and allow the galaxy to repopulate without the psychic swarm so they could emerge and reconquer their empire. However, this kindled a single-minded determination in the C'tan to eliminate the only threat to their conquest, the Warp. Thus began the Great Work, the severing of realspace and the Warp so that the C'tan would go unchallenged once again.1

The source listed for this is the 3rd ed Necron codex. Which has it's timeline all mixed up and events that just did not happen. Lexicanum has issues like this a lot. Not saying not to go there for information, but to read what they list as sources as well. That you don't get mislead by things that other people has misquoted or added to.

There is a lot of fluff on the Necrons. It's just spead out over many sources. So you have to piece it together. Fall of Damnos, was good and had a little new insight but most of the information there already existed in other places.

Well technically there is a fair amount of fluff about the C'tan ver little about the Necrons themselves.

Whilst the only good space marine is a dead one, it should be remembered that FoD is part of the 'Space Marine Battles' novel series. So the amount of necron goodness was very reasonable for a novel chiefly concerned with Ultrasmurfs.

Da wun fing betta dan a ded oomie is a dyin' oomie who tells ya where ta find 'is mates...

I forget where that qoute was from, but it's been in my orky memory bank a long time..

necr0n wrote:Duuuude... hold on a sec... We seriously know nothing about necrons... There is no fluff.The only fluff we've got is "war in heaven" in the codex and the brand new(possibly based on the new 'dex's fluff) Fall of Damnos.

That, really, is my issue. The existing fluff, that of the C'Tan and the War In Heaven an how the Imperium knows essentially nothing about the Necrons, to the point that most of the time when they find Necron ruins or artifacts they just stumble in and doom themselves, is why I started playing Necrons! It doesn't matter how little fluff there was; if there was fluff at all (there was), and if that fluff is what attracted the players to that army (it did, for me and, I'm sure, others), then it is unfair to switch such things on your established players.
If, for instance, the C'Tan are written out of the story, I will be quite displeased. The concept of the C'Tan is what drew me to the Necrons in the first place. Not that I dislike the ancient egyptian sort of feel to them, but that isn't why I picked up the army.

If you're a baseball fan, and you like the rules of baseball and the look of baseball and the overall feel of baseball, and have bought a lot of baseball 'stuff' (pretend being a baseball fan requires you to have the big foam hand and various other paraphernalia), and then one season the baseball league (or whatever it's called) changes the rules so it's played while sitting at a table, speaking only in French, wearing tutus, and covered in fire ants, you would be justified in crying foul. Sure, it's the prerogative of the association to change the rules as it wishes. Sure, some people may like the new game. Sure, no one is forcing you to watch/follow/enjoy baseball anymore. But it is unfair to you and all of those other people who supported something for so many years to change it on you like that.

Hmm. Not sure if that came across right, but I think it's the best I can do on lunch break without just saying the same thing six different ways.

In closing: here's hoping the C'Tan are still around and as prominent as any ancient unknown semi-dormant evil is, if not in rules then in (and more importantly) story.

I get the feeling they're going a lot less conspiracy theory meets Lovecraft Mythos and a lot more Stargate.

I'm going to at least read the codex thoroughly a few times before I ragequit Necrons, but if they're strayed away from the ancient, unknowable horror feel too far i'll likely not want to play them as much.

Dont get my wrong, dont judge me. I love my necrons myself, they are my first and favourite army. I like how they are the undead skeletons in space etc etc, however I will accept a change as that is what makes a game non-boring. A game cant stay static, there have to be changes. New people have to be brought it. New customers. Perhaps, the fluff will evolve arround the one we have now but include a heck of lot more stuff. That would be nice huh? However my main point when i started this conversation with the fluff was that it might change, so you cant compare the new rules with the old fluff. EG Crypteks are awsome and they have all the tecnologies and stuff but where are they in the codex today? Nowhere to be found. that was my actual point. Sorry if i got you to something else, i can get confusing

Hmm...

On the GW website:
Pariahs, Immortals, Flayed Ones, and Tomb Spyders are marked "No Longer Available".

Everything else is from shipping in 24 hours to shipping in 2-3 weeks.

"iiiiinteresting"

*rubs hands together...*

not sure if this has come up in this thread, but with the possible vanish of pariahs do we think that the age of the warscythe has come to an end.
Over the last few codex releases a few little flags were raised to me regarding this but the biggest were when the grey knights book came out.
Point is (I'm not sure if I'm the only one who noticed) where did all the stuff that could ignore inv saves go? Most of the demon-hunting weapons ignored them as demons were all about the inv saves but now they are just the same as everything else. But the big shock for me was this: C'tan phase sword, Now Just A Power Weapon.
If that's gone by the wayside then I'm sure warscythes and C'tan in any form will have done so the same way.

Here's hoping I'm wrong.