Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Okay, I've officially quit this stupid game. I just know the first time I see Space Marines and Eldar fighting against my Loyalist IG I'm going to lose it.

This is just a blatant attempt to get people to buy more models, and they've completely ruined any the only thing that still kept me in the game (the fluff, the feel of the game universe)

Voodoo Boyz wrote:

tetrisphreak wrote:

TechMarine1 wrote:Space Marines+GK (to get devastations that can fire through terrain)

Tau+Orks (for CC support)

I like some of these possibilities (for friendly games of course). I agree that this would probably break tournaments because it gets rid of some of each lists handicaps that you would otherwise have to work around.

I've seen this sentiment a lot since the allies rumors started flying, and now with confirmation in the WD even more so.

So i pose this question:

What is wrong with every army being able to shore up it's weaknesses? Once all armies are solid all-rounders, if commanded by the proper generals, we should see the MOST fair, balanced version of 40K ever. An all-round army like Tau+Orks still has both armies weaknesses - Assault the codex:tau units and shoot down the codex: orks units. I'm not seeing the bad side here, since everyone has access to everyone else's drugs in this case.

Probably cherry picking making the game dumber.

Don't think Tau + Orks. Think Tau + Space marines, where they get a HQ + Terminator + Dedicated LR Transport and a cheapo scout unit. Now you've got some very serious problems. Railguns + JSJ Suits (that can buy terrain that always blocks LOS, that always is available - where you want it), with a massive counter-charge unit?

Sounds like a good list - The HQ/Terminator/Land Raider/Scouts takes up about 750 Points. Then throw in the Shas'O and Crisis team, there's 400 more points. The 2 necessary units of fire warriors in devil fish at least 300 points more, but with better rapid fire rules i'd say 450. That puts you at 1650. @2000 points you can fit in some broadsides, and terrain if you have the points.

That would be a good army. I could also build one just as scary with Necrons/Blood Angels, or Imperial Guard/Black Templars.

When everyone is super, nobody is. Fair games. I'm calling it here. People refusing to take advantage of a good thing to make their armies better aren't allowed to cry when they lose to good combos like these - they've got options as well.

can i have your old models please, that would be nice of you to give them too me.

azazel the cat wrote:...1x Harbinger of Transmogrification w/ Voltaic Staff (nobody assaults this walking Gauss battery)...

Harbingers of Transmogrification carry the Tremorstave.

I was considering getting the Gamer's Edition, but at ~USD$130 there's no way in hell I'd shell out. I'll probably just get the dice set for that lovely charge-pack tin.

Griever wrote:Okay, I've officially quit this stupid game. I just know the first time I see Space Marines and Eldar fighting against my Loyalist IG I'm going to lose it.

This is just a blatant attempt to get people to buy more models, and they've completely ruined any the only thing that still kept me in the game (the fluff, the feel of the game universe)

You know that Eldar allying temporarily with whoever suited their goals has been a part of the fluff for more than 20 years now, right?

Likewise, Space Marines may not like Xenos, but they're also (at least the more sensible chapters are) pragmatic enough to use whatever tools suit them at the time. So Eldar and Space Marines allying to fight against Imperial Guard is no less fluffy than Space Marines doing so by themselves.


That's part of what makes the 40K fluff so awesome... just about anything goes, and you don't have to dig too far to find a reason for any given army to ally with or fight with any other army.

Griever wrote:Okay, I've officially quit this stupid game. I just know the first time I see Space Marines and Eldar fighting against my Loyalist IG I'm going to lose it.

This is just a blatant attempt to get people to buy more models, and they've completely ruined any the only thing that still kept me in the game (the fluff, the feel of the game universe)

So in 2nd ed when they were SOP, you would have never started?

I seriously doubt that allies will be mandatory. So everyone who is mad as hell about the idea of black turtles being able to ally with dancing melons needs to consider that they will not be forced to actually use those two factions; but the rest of us who are excited about the possibilities are happy the mechanic exists to play out a battle where the Sneaky Pilgrims and Fairy Bobbleheads decide to work together to defeat the Monopoly Men.

NimbleJack3 wrote:I was considering getting the Gamer's Edition, but at ~USD$130 there's no way in hell I'd shell out. I'll probably just get the dice set for that lovely charge-pack tin.

The tin is in the Gamer's edition only. So you're not getting it unless you shell out the $130 USD....

alarmingrick wrote:

NimbleJack3 wrote:I was considering getting the Gamer's Edition, but at ~USD$130 there's no way in hell I'd shell out. I'll probably just get the dice set for that lovely charge-pack tin.

The tin is in the Gamer's edition only. So you're not getting it unless you shell out the $130 USD....

Actually thats not quite correct. The White Dwarf states specifically that the dice set that you purchase separately comes with the Lasgun power pack tin. Only problem now is that Games Workshop's facebook page is saying that the dice are not coming any time soon due to some unforeseen delay.

So does this mean my battlewagon orks now have a detachment of an Inquisitor grenade caddie + DCAs riding in a Storm Raven with two Psyflemen dreadnoughts offering fire support?

Actually a better question is who in their right mind would ever want to play a game with me using this kind of army?

sarduka42 wrote:

alarmingrick wrote:

NimbleJack3 wrote:I was considering getting the Gamer's Edition, but at ~USD$130 there's no way in hell I'd shell out. I'll probably just get the dice set for that lovely charge-pack tin.

The tin is in the Gamer's edition only. So you're not getting it unless you shell out the $130 USD....

Actually thats not quite correct. The White Dwarf states specifically that the dice set that you purchase separately comes with the Lasgun power pack tin. Only problem now is that Games Workshop's facebook page is saying that the dice are not coming any time soon due to some unforeseen delay.

Well, they are at least colored differntly! Damn it, they have to special besides just the purse and holders!

tetrisphreak wrote:What is wrong with every army being able to shore up it's weaknesses? Once all armies are solid all-rounders, if commanded by the proper generals, we should see the MOST fair, balanced version of 40K ever. ...

There is understandable concern as not every army can. That and as a nid player, I have some logical reservations about other armies having acces to rune priests (and therefore JOTWW) and longfangs .

Goresaw wrote:So does this mean my battlewagon orks now have a detachment of an Inquisitor grenade caddie + DCAs riding in a Storm Raven with two Psyflemen dreadnoughts offering fire support?

Actually a better question is who in their right mind would ever want to play a game with me using this kind of army?

Well there are a dozen other combinations off the top of my head that would gladly play and do well against you. Necrons look insanely good with 6th and heaven help the sucker who plays against 3 doom scythes/monoliths and 18 wraiths + whatever that player wants to add in they think they might be 'missing'. Or how about the requisite guard army that has the center snugly held by 20 death company? Tons of hell is about to break loose and your army concept, while strong, will certainly find more than adequate challenges.

The point above is a good one, everyone on an elite level will have some outrageous silliness in a competitive environment.

Glorioski wrote:

Matt.Kingsley wrote:GW has 'apperently' taken down the Ultimate Bundle, Collectors Edition and Gamers Edition from the Aussie site...

Maybe they ran out of their allocated stock. The ultimate bundle got taken off the UK site this morning.

They disappeared in literally a few hours so unlikely

Cyrax wrote:

azazel the cat wrote:...1x Harbinger of Transmogrification w/ Voltaic Staff (nobody assaults this walking Gauss battery)...

Harbingers of Transmogrification carry the Tremorstave.

Ya know what the worst part about that it? My Necron codex is literally two feet out of my reach and I didn't wanna get up, so I didn't bother to check it.

Griever wrote:Okay, I've officially quit this stupid game. I just know the first time I see Space Marines and Eldar fighting against my Loyalist IG I'm going to lose it.

This is just a blatant attempt to get people to buy more models, and they've completely ruined any the only thing that still kept me in the game (the fluff, the feel of the game universe)

Oh it gets worse than that. I believe another reason for the changes to 6TH ED is to have cross sales abilities with Fantasy. Once you know how to play 6Th 40K you will get to know some of the mechanics of playing Fantasy, which of course those GW sales people will try to shove Fantasy into your face.

Too many similarities with Fantasy but juuuuust enough to make things a little different.

Next complaint I have. Too many models that will be needed for your armies to be competitive. I again believe that the average range of games being played will be between 2 and 3 thousand points. Hell just look at the Battle Reports now and see what the range is. It is depressing to see so many 2000+ points games. You better believe that the point levels will increase. Especially with the Ally Rules.

And with that the game is going to slow down once again.

This does not solve the problem with their shrinking customer base. Overall the increase in prices alone will turn more and more people away and into other games or leave the hobby all together. The game mechanics I believe will cause more people to leave 40K as well.

I believe that there are enough "plastic crack head fanatics" still out there that will buy at least the codex and models at these over the top prices. I believe that there are at least 100 thousand 40K'ers world wide at the present. and at least $75 US dollars a pop? Well you do the math.

Games Workshop is going to make a real nice short term profit and the Board of Directors will give themselves another dividend, and the rest of the revenue will tie themselves over until The Hobbit comes out in theaters, with the belief that they will get another sizable bump of profits, just like the last time.

I'll come back to this posting in 6 months or so and see if some of what I have said comes true or not.

But the combination of Eldar and IG would be a brutal one.

wyomingfox wrote:

tetrisphreak wrote:What is wrong with every army being able to shore up it's weaknesses? Once all armies are solid all-rounders, if commanded by the proper generals, we should see the MOST fair, balanced version of 40K ever. ...

There is understandable concern as not every army can. That and as a nid player, I have some logical reservations about other armies having acces to rune priests (and therefore JOTWW) and longfangs .

Hey, Nids were my first 40K love...it made me shed a tear the day i traded the army I had to start my Blood Angels. I more than anyone hope that the edition changes help tyranids to compete. I think a ruleset that encourages infantry to be out of their tanks, and being able to wreck tanks with a butt-ton of glancing hits, along with monstrous creature buffs (that they have deserved for the entirety of 5th, i'll add) has a good chance at helping them achieve. Not having allies is a pain, but such is the life of a bug player i guess.

junk wrote:I seriously doubt that allies will be mandatory. So everyone who is mad as hell about the idea of black turtles being able to ally with dancing melons needs to consider that they will not be forced to actually use those two factions; but the rest of us who are excited about the possibilities are happy the mechanic exists to play out a battle where the Sneaky Pilgrims and Fairy Bobbleheads decide to work together to defeat the Monopoly Men.

I think I would pay lots of money to see a codex for an army with any of those names.

alarmingrick wrote:

sarduka42 wrote:

alarmingrick wrote:

NimbleJack3 wrote:I was considering getting the Gamer's Edition, but at ~USD$130 there's no way in hell I'd shell out. I'll probably just get the dice set for that lovely charge-pack tin.

The tin is in the Gamer's edition only. So you're not getting it unless you shell out the $130 USD....

Actually thats not quite correct. The White Dwarf states specifically that the dice set that you purchase separately comes with the Lasgun power pack tin. Only problem now is that Games Workshop's facebook page is saying that the dice are not coming any time soon due to some unforeseen delay.

Well, they are at least colored differntly! Damn it, they have to special besides just the purse and holders!

Oh i think i can live with the regular commoners colour dice

But now that i read the article again about the gamers edition and the dices, each dice set, each vehicle dice and each objective dice set comes with a tin. The Gamers bag has three pouches to accommodate three tins (one for each of the dice sets). So we're going to have these lasgun packs coming out of ears soon.

Griever wrote:Okay, I've officially quit this stupid game. I just know the first time I see Space Marines and Eldar fighting against my Loyalist IG I'm going to lose it.

This is just a blatant attempt to get people to buy more models, and they've completely ruined any the only thing that still kept me in the game (the fluff, the feel of the game universe)

You would lose it over a perfectly normal fluff situation?

I'm amazed you lasted through each of these last five editions somehow. Bye.

EDIT: Since you are quitting can I have your stuff?

H.B.M.C. wrote:A lot of big AAA games these days have pathetic single-player aspects. Most of the Call of Duty games these days have 4-6 hour single-player games.

On the other hand, I bought Just Cause 2 for $18 and got over 70 hours out of it.

HOW?

I got bored of jumping off high places with stuff exploding about four hours before i finished the game.

lazarian wrote:

Goresaw wrote:So does this mean my battlewagon orks now have a detachment of an Inquisitor grenade caddie + DCAs riding in a Storm Raven with two Psyflemen dreadnoughts offering fire support?

Actually a better question is who in their right mind would ever want to play a game with me using this kind of army?

Well there are a dozen other combinations off the top of my head that would gladly play and do well against you. Necrons look insanely good with 6th and heaven help the sucker who plays against 3 doom scythes/monoliths and 18 wraiths + whatever that player wants to add in they think they might be 'missing'. Or how about the requisite guard army that has the center snugly held by 20 death company? Tons of hell is about to break loose and your army concept, while strong, will certainly find more than adequate challenges.

The point above is a good one, everyone on an elite level will have some outrageous silliness in a competitive environment.

I'm not saying my idea is any sort of super list. I'm just a little saddened that you can take a list that would give someone a good (hopefully enjoyable) game and just by adding allies, turn it into an unfun, beatface, exercise in frustration by removing the weaknesses that an intelligent designer built into the list so that players could have those good enjoyable games!

I know thats really not a valid argument. If someone wants to WAC he can just go build a power army. Its not like he needs allies to do it.But still, I can't help but be sad. Its like watching something beautiful (like a somewhat balanced army) turn into something twisted.

Goresaw wrote:

lazarian wrote:

Goresaw wrote:So does this mean my battlewagon orks now have a detachment of an Inquisitor grenade caddie + DCAs riding in a Storm Raven with two Psyflemen dreadnoughts offering fire support?

Actually a better question is who in their right mind would ever want to play a game with me using this kind of army?

Well there are a dozen other combinations off the top of my head that would gladly play and do well against you. Necrons look insanely good with 6th and heaven help the sucker who plays against 3 doom scythes/monoliths and 18 wraiths + whatever that player wants to add in they think they might be 'missing'. Or how about the requisite guard army that has the center snugly held by 20 death company? Tons of hell is about to break loose and your army concept, while strong, will certainly find more than adequate challenges.

The point above is a good one, everyone on an elite level will have some outrageous silliness in a competitive environment.

I'm not saying my idea is any sort of super list. I'm just a little saddened that you can take a list that would give someone a good (hopefully enjoyable) game and just by adding allies, turn it into an unfun, beatface, exercise in frustration by removing the weaknesses that an intelligent designer built into the list so that players could have those good enjoyable games!

I know thats really not a valid argument. If someone wants to WAC he can just go build a power army. Its not like he needs allies to do it.But still, I can't help but be sad. Its like watching something beautiful (like a somewhat balanced army) turn into something twisted.

True, but for every WAAC player, there is likely 5 players like me who shelved that (non-abusive) Iron Warriors army. Now I can legally play the Basilisk I have, and even add hordes of meat shields like they used in Storm of Iron.

undertow wrote:

junk wrote:I seriously doubt that allies will be mandatory. So everyone who is mad as hell about the idea of black turtles being able to ally with dancing melons needs to consider that they will not be forced to actually use those two factions; but the rest of us who are excited about the possibilities are happy the mechanic exists to play out a battle where the Sneaky Pilgrims and Fairy Bobbleheads decide to work together to defeat the Monopoly Men.

I think I would pay lots of money to see a codex for an army with any of those names.

Meet me over in the proposed rule forum and bring your checkbook...

Eh I won't judge allies until 6th has been out and played a while. Even though it does sound like it could set up some pretty over powered lists, I also think that it will be mainly in 2000+ point matches that it gets out of hand.

Sticking to 2k and below, allies aren't going to have as massive of an impact imo. Besides that, just because you can have allies doesn't mean you have to take them.

Being able to take a 2nd detachment of your army instead of from another dex could be really cool.. An awesome Crisis suit list comes to mind....

You know, I see and understand both sides of the allies argument but my question is this: Why would you want to play a straight 40K game when in all likelihood after adding an allied detachment and a building or three you're already approaching the Apoc points range? Why not just play Apoc where you can add heavies, strategems and have NO FOC if you so choose? I haven't played many Apoc games, but is it broken under 3000 pts? Just curious.

@coyotius: Yes it is broken.

Thanks...seems like its all starting to blur. If our games start averaging 2000pts then you're only 500pts away from adding a second FOC (I guess) and 1000pts away from an Apoc game.

So I hear that shooting is supposed to be way more potent in this edition. Well I don't know if WAY more potent, but I was wondering what some of the rules are that are making people think that.