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Hullo all! DB from B&C here...
If this turns out to reflect the actual allies matrix, I'm pretty bummed that GW have blown the chance to bring back Ye Olde Genestealer Cult :(

Agreed Dark Brotherhood(Insert words of the black sacrament here) I just don't see why they can give the Nids some humans to infest. Out of all the long-shots fluff wise that allies puts forward this would not be a stretch. Who knows maybe there is some kind of big bad World Wide Campaign where nids invade everything.

Or there's the possibility with the next Tyranid codex that they could ally with IG as long as they take a very specific list of units? It's probably too complicated and wishlisty here, but since it's in the rulebook now I would expect some Allies-modifying rules to pop up here and there.

The last time I recall an actual list for Genestealer Cults was the Black Army Book from the Second Edition box set.

I'm sure if you wanted to house rule a genestealer cult army, you could do easily it using the framework of the allied rules.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?catId=&categoryId=%C3%83%C2%83%C3%82%C2%83%C3%83%C2%82%C3%82%C2%83%C3%83%C2%83%C3%82%C2%82%C3%83%C2%82%C3%82%C2%82%C3%83%C2%83%C3%82%C2%83%C3%83%C2%82%C3%82%C2%82%C3%83%C2%83%C3%82%C2%82%C3%83%C2%82%C3%82%C2%A7ion%3D§ion=&pIndex=0&aId=22400024a&start=1&multiPageMode=true

In a nutshell:
Nothing makes sense.
Tyranids aren't on the list.

That link has already been posted half a dozen times.

I wonder how many people are going to leave 40k and start playing Warmachine?

4 people in my gaming group have already sold their 40k armies and picked up their armies from Privateer Press and are asking me when I am going to join them. To be honest its sounding better and better with every passing day.

I only have one complaint about 6th...I don't like the 2d6 for the charge distance. My major complaint is that in a world wide economy like the one we are in GW can justify someone paying $82.50 for a Stormraven or $75 for a Land Raider.

If you want to generate new players and get them involved in the tabletop gaming genre jacking prices through the roof isn't a good way to do it. I can understand the $75 for the rulebook now that I have found out more about it. Its a really thick hardback book with a bunch of really cool artwork and its got the new rules. Oddly enough the preorder prices on Ebay are between $54 and $62.

As a Nid player, I think it would have been cool if we were the only army that could "ally" with itself, giving us a unique twist and a slight boost for being unable to ally with anyone. Otherwise we gain nothing from this system and everyone else can plug gaps in their weaknesses by dipping in other armies.

Well, the topic of ''allies'' is overemphasized here. There are certainly more interesting (new) rules to be discussed.

wuestenfux wrote:Well, the topic of ''allies'' is overemphasized here. There are certainly more interesting (new) rules to be discussed.

To be fair, being able to take two armies instead of one to a single game of 40k is a big change.

Completely daft, nonsensical, and against all 40k fluff, but big.

'Completely daft, nonsensical, and against all 40k fluff, but big. '

Seems to be the current direction with GW, anyway *kidding*






I think allies might be cool, or it might be the most OP pile of WAAC garbage.. It will depend on the way the rules actually work, and the player using them. I want to try them out at least...

Okay, how's this for a new topic. What is the introduction of hull points going to do to the structure points of titans and superheavies? Multiply them by 3? That would make titans damn near unkillable!

Ahtman wrote:The last time I recall an actual list for Genestealer Cults was the Black Army Book from the Second Edition box set.

The Genestealer Cult list was in Codex Tyranids (2nd Edition). It was separate to the standard Tyranid list that was in the same book.

Griever wrote:...against all 40k fluff

Not in the slightest. The only allegiances which can't be explained with the fluff aren't possible.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Ahtman wrote:The last time I recall an actual list for Genestealer Cults was the Black Army Book from the Second Edition box set.

The Genestealer Cult list was in Codex Tyranids (2nd Edition). It was separate to the standard Tyranid list that was in the same book.

Genestealer Cults were in the Inquisitor game. I know thay haven't featured since but they have never been retconned either. As far as I'm concerned they are still canon.

Griever wrote:Completely daft, nonsensical, and against all 40k fluff, but big.

Guess you dont know anything about the 40k fluff then.... different races "helping" each other is all over the place...


I think the reason GKs can ally with almost everyone is due to Inquisitors, but shouldn't Inquisitors from the Radical persuasion be allowed to ally with Chaos? They do use chaos items, weapons and daemonhosts etc...

Reivax26 wrote:I wonder how many people are going to leave 40k and start playing Warmachine?

4 people in my gaming group have already sold their 40k armies and picked up their armies from Privateer Press and are asking me when I am going to join them. To be honest its sounding better and better with every passing day.

I only have one complaint about 6th...I don't like the 2d6 for the charge distance. My major complaint is that in a world wide economy like the one we are in GW can justify someone paying $82.50 for a Stormraven or $75 for a Land Raider.

If you want to generate new players and get them involved in the tabletop gaming genre jacking prices through the roof isn't a good way to do it. I can understand the $75 for the rulebook now that I have found out more about it. Its a really thick hardback book with a bunch of really cool artwork and its got the new rules. Oddly enough the preorder prices on Ebay are between $54 and $62.

Warmachine isn't the only option out there. On a model-to-model basis, it's just as expensive as Games Workshop's models.

You complain about $75 Land Raiders and $83 Storm Ravens and yet you're fine with the $130 PP Colossals of comparable size?
A typical HQ in 40k costs $20 in Power Armor or $22.25 in Terminator Armor. A typical Warcaster in Warmachine costs $16-20 if infantry or $23-25 if larger.
A typical Space Marine in GW is $5-6 in a plastic boxed set with accessories. A typical PP grunt is about $5-6 in metal with no accesories.

They're comparable.

The only thing that is concerning is the initial investment for new players that have to get a whole new army.
For those of us already invested in Warhammer, the difference is negligible.


Regardless, if you want Warmachine-style gameplay at a lower cost, play Magic the Gathering. If you want Warmachine-style aesthetics at lower cost, play World of Warcraft. If you want just a great miniatures game at lower cost, play Infinity or Malifaux. If you want to just push miniatures around at a lower cost and throw dice mindlessly, play Flames or War or something by Spartan Games.

There are many options out there; don't let yourself be tricked into a false dichotomy.

MadCowCrazy wrote:

Griever wrote:Completely daft, nonsensical, and against all 40k fluff, but big.

Guess you dont know anything about the 40k fluff then.... different races "helping" each other is all over the place...


I think the reason GKs can ally with almost everyone is due to Inquisitors, but shouldn't Inquisitors from the Radical persuasion be allowed to ally with Chaos? They do use chaos items, weapons and daemonhosts etc...

Still a bit strange to see Black Templars being cool with Eldar considering Craftworld Eldar exemplify everything the Black Templars hate (nonhumans and witches).

Regardless, Radical Inquisitors may be okay with Chaos relics and the occasional daemonhost to help COMBAT Chaos or save humanity, but there is no justification for an Inquisitor leading Grey Knights alongside actual Chaos Space Marines or an entire army of Daemons.

Orks just shouldn't be able to ally with anyone other than Chaos forces. The idea of BT's allying with aliens over Sisters is just silly.

And Tau and Daemons. Tau and mother fething Daemons! AHH!

Ascalam wrote:'Completely daft, nonsensical, and against all 40k fluff, but big. '

Seems to be the current direction with GW, anyway

It's a shame, because I love the 40k universe and spent much of my childhood loving the game.

But this is the straw that broke the camel's back. They've spat in the face of their own fluff, and made taking an army completely pointless.

Orks allying with fething everybody is especially slowed. Orks don't fething ally with anybody.

Eldar and Dark Eldar? They're sworn enemies. But hey I guess they're both Space Elves so since we're shoe-horning allies in against all logic we might as well have them be best friends.

Oh, and Space Marines have better access to Psychic powers than Eldar. Because Space Marines are the best!

This game is a joke now. It sucks too, because I love miniature war-gaming, but the only other community that exists in my area is Fantasy, and that's only if the same people who were playing a year ago still do, and I don't even like Warhammer Fantasy. There's no Warmahordes, no Flames of War, no Malifaux, nothing around here. Hopefully people realize how completely daft this is and migrate towards game systems that haven't gone completely slowed so that I can still enjoy the War gaming hobby without sitting at a shop by myself for two hours hoping somebody shows up.

MadCowCrazy wrote:

Griever wrote:Completely daft, nonsensical, and against all 40k fluff, but big.

Guess you dont know anything about the 40k fluff then.... different races "helping" each other is all over the place...


I think the reason GKs can ally with almost everyone is due to Inquisitors, but shouldn't Inquisitors from the Radical persuasion be allowed to ally with Chaos? They do use chaos items, weapons and daemonhosts etc...

To fight chaos, so no.

It would be a tad hard to explain the Soulgrinder following you to a meeting of the Inquisition ...

They have a hard enough time explaining away the Daemon weapons and so on.

That said a Chaos army with a fallen Radical as a Chaos lord would be kind of cool...

Ascalam wrote:

MadCowCrazy wrote:

Griever wrote:Completely daft, nonsensical, and against all 40k fluff, but big.

Guess you dont know anything about the 40k fluff then.... different races "helping" each other is all over the place...


I think the reason GKs can ally with almost everyone is due to Inquisitors, but shouldn't Inquisitors from the Radical persuasion be allowed to ally with Chaos? They do use chaos items, weapons and daemonhosts etc...

To fight chaos, so no.

It would be a tad hard to explain the Soulgrinder following you to a meeting of the Inquisition ...

They have a hard enough time explaining away the Daemon weapons and so on.

That said a Chaos army with a fallen Radical as a Chaos lord would be kind of cool...

Maybe not radicals but heretic inquisitors like Quixos who have fallen to chaos, those could be represented. Also radicals Inquisitors and demons would work.

MadCowCrazy wrote:

Griever wrote:Completely daft, nonsensical, and against all 40k fluff, but big.

Guess you dont know anything about the 40k fluff then.... different races "helping" each other is all over the place...


I think the reason GKs can ally with almost everyone is due to Inquisitors, but shouldn't Inquisitors from the Radical persuasion be allowed to ally with Chaos? They do use chaos items, weapons and daemonhosts etc...

I know tons about the fluff, I've read every codex from star to finish. Don't say things when you don't know what the feth you are talking about.

Just because different armies don't kill each other at first sight doesn't mean you should be able to field them as one army on the tabletop. Everybody HATES the fluff of Blood Angels fighting with Necrons, and for good reason, it's completely daft. They've done a complete 180 and spit in the face of all their pre 5th edition fluff.

- Edited by insaniak. Keep it civil, please. -

And you're right, it's totally common for Inquisitors to call upon squads of Dire Avengers to fight for them against Orks. That definitely happens all the time. They become best buds and battle together against their arch enemies, the Blood Angels and their BFFs the Necron Warriors and their Scarab swarms.

- Edited by insaniak. Keep it civil, please -

Glorioski wrote:

Ascalam wrote:

MadCowCrazy wrote:

Griever wrote:Completely daft, nonsensical, and against all 40k fluff, but big.

Guess you dont know anything about the 40k fluff then.... different races "helping" each other is all over the place...


I think the reason GKs can ally with almost everyone is due to Inquisitors, but shouldn't Inquisitors from the Radical persuasion be allowed to ally with Chaos? They do use chaos items, weapons and daemonhosts etc...

To fight chaos, so no.

It would be a tad hard to explain the Soulgrinder following you to a meeting of the Inquisition ...

They have a hard enough time explaining away the Daemon weapons and so on.

That said a Chaos army with a fallen Radical as a Chaos lord would be kind of cool...

Maybe not radicals but heretic inquisitors like Quixos who have fallen to chaos, those could be represented. Also radicals Inquisitors and demons would work.

But then that opens up GK (same codex) and Daemons, which really doesn't. I doubt that it would stay as just Inquisitor + Daemons in the hands of a TFG who wanted fateweaver chilling behind his Dreadknights

It's an neat idea, fluffwise, but a really bad one gamewise..

I have no problem with Tau and Space Marines not killing each other in the fluff, instead turning on an incoming Ork Waagh to stave off extermination. But this SHOULD NOT be something you can do EVERY SINGLE GAME regardless of who you are fighting against. Think about it, under these rules, you can include a squad of Fire Warriors with any Codex Space Marine army. Space Marines are taught to despise all Xenos, but know some random squad of aliens is going to join their chapter and fight with them?

What's the point of even "playing an army" if you can take whatever the hell you want from any codex anyways?

Just looked up more allied rules. You can ally Space Marine with Dark Eldar? They've gone off the deep end here, and anybody who doesn't see that is just taking whatever crap GW feeds them.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Ahtman wrote:The last time I recall an actual list for Genestealer Cults was the Black Army Book from the Second Edition box set.

The Genestealer Cult list was in Codex Tyranids (2nd Edition). It was separate to the standard Tyranid list that was in the same book.

I couldn't remember if it existed in the Codex at that time, and thought that maybe I imagined it. Either way it has been 19 years (oh god why did I look up the publishing date?) years since that Codex and no official lists since then for Genestealer Cults. It isn't like people don't bring it up all the time so i'm sure they are aware it existed, but it seems there is no interest in giving them one. We'll get an official Genestealer Cult list when Squats get one. I'd love for there to be one, but I just don't think it is going to happen.

Ascalam wrote:

Glorioski wrote:Maybe not radicals but heretic inquisitors like Quixos who have fallen to chaos, those could be represented. Also radicals Inquisitors and demons would work.

But then that opens up GK (same codex) and Daemons, which really doesn't. I doubt that it would stay as just Inquisitor + Daemons in the hands of a TFG who wanted fateweaver chilling behind his Dreadknights

It's an neat idea, fluffwise, but a really bad one gamewise..

Yep it would need to be conditional on you not taking GKs.

I think everyone has forgotten that there are different levels of alliegience, the worst being counting as un shootable, un assaultable enemies and therefore do not benefit from any bonuses that allies would usually get.
They also count as a seperate army towards objectives and can't be joined by independent Characters and vice-versa

And I assume most allies will be that sort

Exactly the allegiances on the table can represent the most extreme circumstances.

Griever wrote: I have no problem with Tau and Space Marines not killing each other in the fluff, instead turning on an incoming Ork Waagh to stave off extermination. But this SHOULD NOT be something you can do EVERY SINGLE GAME regardless of who you are fighting against.

How is it any different to fielding Marneus Calgar in every single game?

It doesn't represent those Tau being allied to the Marines for ever more... It just means your games are representing those battles in which they were.

What's the point of even "playing an army" if you can take whatever the hell you want from any codex anyways?

Has it actually been confirmed yet that you can take whatever you want from any codex?

Just looked up more allied rules. You can ally Space Marine with Dark Eldar? They've gone off the deep end here, and anybody who doesn't see that is just taking whatever crap GW feeds them.

I find it interesting how some players, upon GW releasing something that they (the player) disagrees with, immediately conclude that it's GW who are in the wrong.

It's their fluff. They write it. So when their interpretation of it differs from yours, guess which of you has the 'correct' interpretation...?