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Made in us
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Glorioski wrote:Exactly the allegiances on the table can represent the most extreme circumstances.


If they're so "extreme" how come the rules allow to field anybody as allies in EVERY SINGLE game you play. With these current rules, Eldar can ally with Dark Eldar against other ELDAR. Tau and Space Marines can ally together against other Space Marines. You can take a mixed army of Eldar and Orks to fight against Space Marines. How does this make any sense?

May be you don't play in tournaments a lot, but you've got to understand. All people are going to do is figure out what unit from any other codex makes their army even better, and then field that in every single game. This is what the rules allow them to do.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
insaniak wrote:
Griever wrote: I have no problem with Tau and Space Marines not killing each other in the fluff, instead turning on an incoming Ork Waagh to stave off extermination. But this SHOULD NOT be something you can do EVERY SINGLE GAME regardless of who you are fighting against.

How is it any different to fielding Marneus Calgar in every single game?

It doesn't represent those Tau being allied to the Marines for ever more... It just means your games are representing those battles in which they were.



What's the point of even "playing an army" if you can take whatever the hell you want from any codex anyways?

Has it actually been confirmed yet that you can take whatever you want from any codex?


Just looked up more allied rules. You can ally Space Marine with Dark Eldar? They've gone off the deep end here, and anybody who doesn't see that is just taking whatever crap GW feeds them.

I find it interesting how some players, upon GW releasing something that they (the player) disagrees with, immediately conclude that it's GW who are in the wrong.

It's their fluff. They write it. So when their interpretation of it differs from yours, guess which of you has the 'correct' interpretation...?


Just because they "write" the fluff, doesn't mean I have to like it. They' completely and utterly altered the very fabric of the universe they've created. The people who originally creaed the game and the universe we love don't even work for the the company now. The people that created the game I loved have long since left, and the people who are left have completely and utterly ruined it.

If GW hired C.S. Goto to write the next 40k rulebook, would that then make it "okay" when everything you knew and enjoyed about the universe randomly changed out of thin air, and completely contradicted everything you knew about the game's universe?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/06/24 08:15:57


 
   
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Or just a wierd whim on the part of one of the allies.

Like the case with the Wraithkind Kabal showing up to kill orks with Iyanden (right after they had fought off the nids) because their use of soul-stone constructs (and them angsting over it) tickled the Archon's fancy

Orks don't ally with other races, as a rule, but do hire out as Mercs sometimes.

Eldar sometimes show up in IOM vs Chaos fights, and fight alongside the IOM, but it doesn't make them friends. There was a story in the old Titan Legions IIRC of the Princeps of a warhound Titan thanking the Eldar titan group that saved his fundament for helping him by destroying a chaos titan group (slanneshi i think), only to be told that they couldn't care less about him, but were taking on the titans for their own reasons.

Just because you are fighting the same enemy doesn't automatically make you buddies. It just means you've refrained from killing one another, in order to kill something else.

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Griever wrote:
Glorioski wrote:Exactly the allegiances on the table can represent the most extreme circumstances.


If they're so "extreme" how come the rules allow to field anybody as allies in EVERY SINGLE game you play. With these current rules, Eldar can ally with Dark Eldar against other ELDAR. Tau and Space Marines can ally together against other Space Marines. You can take a mixed army of Eldar and Orks to fight against Space Marines. How does this make any sense?

May be you don't play in tournaments a lot, but you've got to understand. All people are going to do is figure out what unit from any other codex makes their army even better, and then field that in every single game. This is what the rules allow them to do.


I don't know about you but outside of narrative campaigns most players generally don't maintain a narrative. Hence why units who got killed or injured in your last game fight in the next one. Hence, yes, each game can represent an extreme circumstance.

WAAC players exist already, these rules will make no difference. They'll be doing the same thing they always did.
   
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Australia

sarduka42 wrote:
alarmingrick wrote:
sarduka42 wrote:
alarmingrick wrote:
NimbleJack3 wrote:I was considering getting the Gamer's Edition, but at ~USD$130 there's no way in hell I'd shell out. I'll probably just get the dice set for that lovely charge-pack tin.


The tin is in the Gamer's edition only. So you're not getting it unless you shell out the $130 USD....


Actually thats not quite correct. The White Dwarf states specifically that the dice set that you purchase separately comes with the Lasgun power pack tin. Only problem now is that Games Workshop's facebook page is saying that the dice are not coming any time soon due to some unforeseen delay.


Well, they are at least colored differntly! Damn it, they have to special besides just the purse and holders!


Oh i think i can live with the regular commoners colour dice

But now that i read the article again about the gamers edition and the dices, each dice set, each vehicle dice and each objective dice set comes with a tin. The Gamers bag has three pouches to accommodate three tins (one for each of the dice sets). So we're going to have these lasgun packs coming out of ears soon.

Oh no.
Now I have to buy the Gamer's Edition for that bag, and the obsessive satisfaction of completeness. Hnng.

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insaniak wrote:
Griever wrote: I have no problem with Tau and Space Marines not killing each other in the fluff, instead turning on an incoming Ork Waagh to stave off extermination. But this SHOULD NOT be something you can do EVERY SINGLE GAME regardless of who you are fighting against.

How is it any different to fielding Marneus Calgar in every single game?

It doesn't represent those Tau being allied to the Marines for ever more... It just means your games are representing those battles in which they were.


But would Ultramarines really ally with the Tau if you were playing say, a He'stan army or Blood Angels?

I don't agree with the new allies, I wouldn't mind if they only featured in 2v2's but I can see them being the thing to take, when I play an Army I like to play against the actual army rather than a combination of that and another army, I never make anti lists and I'm against the such but it allows armies to combat their weaknesses which shouldn't be fair as every army has it's weaknesses, and some armies will be able to do this better than others.
   
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I'm not a fan of the Allies rules, but by that same accord, I'm also pretty confident that a lot of the major tournaments will disallow them. Tournament minded gaming groups may well follow suit in that case, which will mitigate their presence, at least somewhat.

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Griever wrote:If they're so "extreme" how come the rules allow to field anybody as allies in EVERY SINGLE game you play.

Probably for the same reason they let you field the exact same army list in every single game you play...


With these current rules, Eldar can ally with Dark Eldar against other ELDAR. Tau and Space Marines can ally together against other Space Marines. You can take a mixed army of Eldar and Orks to fight against Space Marines. How does this make any sense?

How does it not?

The different Eldar Craftworlds all have their own agendas, and it's not inconceivable that one of them might have an agenda that makes use of the specialist 'talents' of their dark kin.
Space Marines wind up on opposing sides of the battlefield constantly. Again, Tau and a renegade Chapter could quite conceivable share a common goal. Or the Marines could be using the Tau to gain an edge over their opposing Chapter, before turning and finishing them off later.
Eldar have manipulated, allied with, and used other races to suit their purposes for pretty much as long as their has been Eldar fluff.

All of these can work in the setting if you approach with an open mind, rather than with your mind already made up that it's all just a bit too silly.


May be you don't play in tournaments a lot, but you've got to understand. All people are going to do is figure out what unit from any other codex makes their army even better, and then field that in every single game. This is what the rules allow them to do.

Which will ultimately be no different to what happens in tournaments now... It just potentially adds a little more variety into the mix.


Just because they "write" the fluff, doesn't mean I have to like it.

Of course you don't. But you not liking it doesn't make it wrong, either.

If GW hired C.S. Goto to write the next 40k rulebook, would that then make it "okay" when everything you knew and enjoyed about the universe randomly changed out of thin air, and completely contradicted everything you knew about the game's universe?

That might be frustrating, yes. But that's not what happened here. This isn't some radical new shift in the fluff... it's just a reintroduction of rules that represent stuff that's been going on in the fluff for more than 20 years now.

The 40K universe is an interwoven mess of alliances, misdirection, lies and backstabbing. This is nothing new.

 
   
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insaniak wrote:
Griever wrote: I have no problem with Tau and Space Marines not killing each other in the fluff, instead turning on an incoming Ork Waagh to stave off extermination. But this SHOULD NOT be something you can do EVERY SINGLE GAME regardless of who you are fighting against.

How is it any different to fielding Marneus Calgar in every single game?

It doesn't represent those Tau being allied to the Marines for ever more... It just means your games are representing those battles in which they were.



What's the point of even "playing an army" if you can take whatever the hell you want from any codex anyways?

Has it actually been confirmed yet that you can take whatever you want from any codex?


Just looked up more allied rules. You can ally Space Marine with Dark Eldar? They've gone off the deep end here, and anybody who doesn't see that is just taking whatever crap GW feeds them.

I find it interesting how some players, upon GW releasing something that they (the player) disagrees with, immediately conclude that it's GW who are in the wrong.

It's their fluff. They write it. So when their interpretation of it differs from yours, guess which of you has the 'correct' interpretation...?


Because Marneus Calgar is a space marine. Every single battle he fights is with a Space Marine army, and he's fought in hundreds if not thousands of battles. If an Ultramarine army always including their own Chapter Master somehow equates to an Ultramarine army always keeping a pet unit of Eldar Aspect Warriors around to fight for them in every single battle no matter who their enemy is, then you and I have a completely different view on how the 40k universe works. The entire appeal of the game is that "in the future, there is only war". Space Marines are bred to hate and kill all xenos no matter what. Just because Matt Ward decided to write otherwise (seriously, who takes this guy seriously? His fluff is elementary school fan fiction drivel) doesn't mean that's what the 40,000 universe was intended to be.

It's a pathetic excuse to try and sell Eldar models to somebody who already plays Space Marines. That's all it is. I was okay with the deliberate nerfing of Carnifexes because GW knew everybody had 6 of them and they couldn't sell anymore, I was okay with some completely daft fluff (blood angels <3 necrons, Grey knights bathing in SoB blood), I was okay with Finecast reducing quality but increasing price, I was even okay with the 40% price increase over the last 10 years on a game that was already expensive. But now they've pushed me over the edge.

   
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One very positive side to allies I have not seen anyone talk about is now we can legally do games of 1v2 and 2v2. In my game group almost every single game for years has effectively been allies. Now we have rules to follow. I better head off we always play on Sunday and today’s game is Blood Angels and Necrons v Tau.
   
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Absolutionis wrote:You complain about $75 Land Raiders and $83 Storm Ravens and yet you're fine with the $130 PP Colossals of comparable size?
A typical HQ in 40k costs $20 in Power Armor or $22.25 in Terminator Armor. A typical Warcaster in Warmachine costs $16-20 if infantry or $23-25 if larger.
A typical Space Marine in GW is $5-6 in a plastic boxed set with accessories. A typical PP grunt is about $5-6 in metal with no accesories.

Your comparison is not even close to relevant. Here's why:

This is a reasonably standard 35-point army in Warmachine (35 points in Warmachine is the equivalent of 1850-2000 in 40k):
Warcaster ($10-20)
Solo Unit ($10)
Solo Unit ($10)
Infantry Unit ($30)
Light Warjack ($15)
Heavy Warjack ($20-50)
Heavy Warjack ($20-50)
Total average cost = $150

Now go out and find me an 1850-2000 point 40k army for $150 MSRP. Go on, I dare you. Try to even come close, I'll spot you 20%.

The mistake you're making with your comparison is that you are forgetting that where a Warmachine army might employ infantrymen that cost about the same as the 40k infantrymen; in a 40k game you will need 7 to 10 times as many of those infantrymen. Additionally, 40k employs a lot of transports and mech. While these can be generally considered the same cost as a PP Heavy Warjack, it is exceedingly rare to see more than 2 or 3 Heavy Warjacks at the most in a Warmachine army, whereas in 40k most armies will utilize between 5 and 10 vehicles.

The most damning way to describe this discrepancy of value is to look at the item with the worst dollar-to-army-composition rate from each company: in PP, it is probably the Protectorate of Menoth Heavy Warjack "Reckoner", which is 8 points, and costs $30. In a 35-point game, that model will account for 23% of the total army points. That is a conversion rate of 77%; dollars-to-army-composition.

In 40k, it is inquestionable the Rhino, which is 35 points, and costs $38. In an 1850-point game, that model will account for a little less than 2% of the total army points. That is a conversion rate of 5%; dollars-to-army-composition.

Now, let's use this same concept against the PP Colossals: those models range from 18-20 points. So yes, they may cost $130, but they will also account for 54% of your entire army composition. This would be the equivalent of paying $130 for a 980-point model in 40k. The PP Colossal still has a conversion rate of 42%.

That means you could, in theory, field a Warmachine army of 2x Colossals and a Warcaster, which will give you the worst possible dollars-to-points conversion rate in the game, and your entire army will still only cost you about $280.

Again, try to find a 40k army that can be built for $280 dollars MSRP. You'll still be hard-pressed to do it.



TL;DR:

Don't even try to make the claim that 40k has the same cost as Warmachine. It's not even close.
   
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Griever wrote: If an Ultramarine army always including their own Chapter Master somehow equates to an Ultramarine army always keeping a pet unit of Eldar Aspect Warriors around to fight for them in every single battle no matter who their enemy is, then you and I have a completely different view on how the 40k universe works.

No, just a different view on how it is applied to the tabletop.

Marneus Calgar can fight in every game you play not because he fights every time the Ultramarines take part in an engagement... but because your games are representing battles that he might have taken part in.

Including an assault squad in your army in every game you play is no different. Space Marines don't include assault squads every time they do battle... but you can play games in which they do.

Including allies is, again, exactly the same situation.


The entire appeal of the game is that "in the future, there is only war". Space Marines are bred to hate and kill all xenos no matter what. Just because Matt Ward decided to write otherwise (seriously, who takes this guy seriously? His fluff is elementary school fan fiction drivel) doesn't mean that's what the 40,000 universe was intended to be.


"A Space Marine army may be accompanied by allied troops chosen from the following Warhammer 40000 lists. ...

Any Space Marine lists, Imperial Guard, Imperial Agents, Squats, Eldar (may not choose an Avatar)."

That's from the 2nd edition Codex: Ultramarines. Written in 1995... Well before Mat Ward started writing codexes.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/06/24 08:33:13


 
   
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Grieved, how is that any different from Sm bs Sm?
And that's been happening since RT!

And BA don't love crons, again that was ally because it was convenient
And Marines aren't bred any different to normal humans as they start off as normal humans and are then recruited and transformed into space marines.
   
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The galaxy is a big place. Any combination of allies can happen once. The question is, why do they prohibit some unfluffy combos while allowing others?

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insaniak wrote:"A Space Marine army may be accompanied by allied troops chosen from the following Warhammer 40000 lists. ...

Any Space Marine lists, Imperial Guard, Imperial Agents, Squats, Eldar (may not choose an Avatar)."

That's from the 2nd edition Codex: Ultramarines. Written in 1995... Well before Mat Ward started writing codexes.


But some of these combinations don't make sense.

Dark Eldar with Daemons?
Tau with Daemons?
Orks with Grey Knights?

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Griever wrote:Just because Matt Ward decided to write otherwise (seriously, who takes this guy seriously? His fluff is elementary school fan fiction drivel) doesn't mean that's what the 40,000 universe was intended to be.


On the other hand, just because you say something doesn't mean that's how the universe was intended either. There's been plenty of examples of Eldar and Space Marines working together, usually against Chaos. Likewise, the recruitment of Orks as mercenaries has been part of the fluff since forever. If you're going to rage at the fluff then please rage against something worthwhile, rather than what's been part of the essential 40k fluff that you seem so keen to protect.

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Someone asked why the Ultramarines would ally with the Tau against the BA. Here's a fluffy reason (just speculation):

The Golden Throne has failed, the IoM is in complete disarray, bordering on civil war; and each still-living Primarch or Chapter Master or whoever are all stepping up to claim the title of being next in line.

These pairings could easily be explained by the Imperium of Man facing a civil war (wow... Helter Skelter might actually be the most fitting term here) with the Tyranid Hive Fleets bearing down on them; not to mention that Chaos is begin to grow.


There. A potentially fluffy reason to allow the allies.
   
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Is the "allies" rules a game mode or its mandatory in every army?

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tryke wrote:Is the "allies" rules a game mode or its mandatory in every army?


It will definitely be optional.
   
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H.B.M.C. wrote:

But some of these combinations don't make sense.

Dark Eldar with Daemons?

I'm surprised that the DE don't already worship Slaanesh.

Tau with Daemons?

Same sort of idea as with Traitor Guard, perhaps? Maybe the Tau were faced with a Tyranid Hive Fleet and found a totally messed-up religion in their foxholes?

Orks with Grey Knights?

Grey Knights have demonstrated in the past (SoB) that they will go to any lengths to win and will manipulate, use and sacrifice anyone to achieve that victory. Orks just want to punch stuff in the face. Seems like a very easy and convenient way for the GK to defeat an overwhelming foe, before they would invariably turn their halberds on the Orks afterwards. (and I'm sure the Orks would do the same, because, uh... Orks!)
   
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azazel the cat wrote:Someone asked why the Ultramarines would ally with the Tau against the BA. Here's a fluffy reason (just speculation):

The Golden Throne has failed, the IoM is in complete disarray, bordering on civil war; and each still-living Primarch or Chapter Master or whoever are all stepping up to claim the title of being next in line.

These pairings could easily be explained by the Imperium of Man facing a civil war (wow... Helter Skelter might actually be the most fitting term here) with the Tyranid Hive Fleets bearing down on them; not to mention that Chaos is begin to grow.


There. A potentially fluffy reason to allow the allies.


Or the slightly less outrageous: "It's a drill, the Tau are Space Marines representing the strategy and equipment of the Tau Empire".

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azazel the cat wrote:
I'm surprised that the DE don't already worship Slaanesh.


Probably because he wants to devour their souls.

I could see maybe them working with Khorne against Slaanesh, but yeh that's the hardest one to explain.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/06/24 08:56:39


 
   
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azazel the cat wrote:I'm surprised that the DE don't already worship Slaanesh.


Are you serious?

The DE are the way they are because of their fear of Slaanesh.

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H.B.M.C. wrote:But some of these combinations don't make sense.

Dark Eldar with Daemons?

A Dark Eldar raiding party has stopped at one of the Maiden worlds to refill the imaginarium tanks on their pirate ships, winds up fighting off an Imperial expeditionary force, and gains an unexpected (and unwelcome) ally when the expedition's surveyor team accidentally triggers a warp rift in an old temple, releasing a swarm of daemons who fall on the Imperial forces...


Tau with Daemons?

A Dark Eldar raiding party has stopped at a deserted world to refill the imaginarium tanks on their pirate ships, winds up fighting off a Tau expeditionary force. The Tau gain an unexpected (and unwelcome) ally when the expedition's surveyor team accidentally triggers a warp rift in an old temple, releasing a swarm of daemons who ignore the Tau with their stunted warp presence and instead spot some nice, juicy elf souls nearby...


Orks with Grey Knights?

A Grey Knight Strike Force is assaulting a Chaos Temple on some remote world. An Ork Waaagh drops in, and decides that the metal the temple is constructed from would look much better plating a Gargant...

 
   
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I agree completely with the last three posts, but I have a question that is off rant topic.

I was reading the codex that they show on the video and it says that, "EVERY vehicle has A NUMBER of hull points," (at 1:20) so does that mean what it says, that each vehicle will have more than one hull point?

Edited for quote and accurate terms.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/06/24 09:05:00


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FDM Printer (terrain) also has one of the largest build volumes available for an FDM printer (400mm x 400mm x 450mm) and has an amazing ,05mm build accuracy.
 
   
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In those two first examples they're not "allies" insaniak. They're just fighting at the same time. It's not even a 'the enemy of my enemy' situation either.

Don't be so intentionally ignorant of the reasons some of us dislike this. We once had a huge mega-game where Eldar and Chaos fought side by side because the Eldar wanted the Chaos Lord to free his hand from the Wailing Doom he had become bonded to (so their plan was to let him succeed and then attack him). It didn't make them 'allies'.

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H.B.M.C. wrote:
insaniak wrote:"A Space Marine army may be accompanied by allied troops chosen from the following Warhammer 40000 lists. ...

Any Space Marine lists, Imperial Guard, Imperial Agents, Squats, Eldar (may not choose an Avatar)."

That's from the 2nd edition Codex: Ultramarines. Written in 1995... Well before Mat Ward started writing codexes.


But some of these combinations don't make sense.

Dark Eldar with Daemons?
Tau with Daemons?
Orks with Grey Knights?


Dark Eldar with Daemons: apear in the codex Dark Eldar... Ends very bad for the Archon doing it, but happened.
Tau with Daemons: hard one... But lets say you got daemons apearing in a planet the tau want to control, and they somewhat ignore the tau (lets say for the much more tasty humans), not exactly allies, but you have an excuse...
Orks with Grey Knights: The Grey Knights need to solve a problem, there are those ork mercenaries offering bodies to die, the grey knights dont plan to pay the orkz, but to kill them after the situation pass. The orkz dont know it. (Extremely grim dark).

And we dont even have entered in the "count'as" branch... (orkz can be abhumans, Daemons can be just warp creatures tammed, dark eldar can be exodites...)

If my post show some BAD spelling issues, please forgive-me, english is not my natural language, and i never received formal education on it...
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http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/537654.page
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Ryan_A wrote:I was reading the codex that they show on the video and it says that EVERY vehicle has armor points, so does that mean what it says, that each vehicle will have more than one armor point?


They'd have to, otherwise the vehicles that don't wouldn't be worth taking. It'd take a single glance to kill the vehicle, and that's absurd.

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H.B.M.C. wrote:
Ryan_A wrote:I was reading the codex that they show on the video and it says that EVERY vehicle has armor points, so does that mean what it says, that each vehicle will have more than one armor point?


They'd have to, otherwise the vehicles that don't wouldn't be worth taking. It'd take a single glance to kill the vehicle, and that's absurd.


So the rumors about only 14av having them are incorrect? Damn, for a second there I thought my 3 LRs would become exponentially more usefull, ah well. I think it is interesting how much vehicles are getting buffed in 6th, I already thought they were pretty damn strong in 5th. Still think it is ganna be wierd that ork Trukks are ganna have hull points. I also think it is interesting how this is taking some of the randomness out of the game, but hey, I'm all for that, I play Mathammer40k!

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But in a way it seems like they are getting nerfed at the same time as glancing hits can take off hull points and armies like necrons are typically good at glancing, i mean, they have gauss!
   
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What's with the allies fuzz? That section in the rulebook will be ignored outside beer&pretzel games.

A bit of info from The Tyranid Hive:


I already read some of 6th rule book there were no % in using slot

however here is something about 6th
(credit ZAlpha)

Core System

- Change to Pre-Measure like WHFB 8th Edition.
- Force Organization Chart is still in use, no use of Percentage
- Adding new FoC Slot called "Fortification" [0-1] / see below
- Phases remains the same, Movement, Shooting, and then Assault
- No Psychic Phase
- No Initiative Phase


Movement Phase
- Movement is pretty much the same. Infantry can move 6", Jump Infantry 12" and so on.

Shooting Phase
- Rapid Fire weapons can now fire at target 24" away irregardless of moving or not. (or choose to fire twice at target 12" away)
- Pistol is pretty much the same.
- New Weapon type "Salvo" - firing at max. range & max. shots if not move, or 1/2 range and 1/2 shots if moving.
- Heavy Weapon can now be fired on the move, but will be subjected to 'snap fire' rule.
- "Snap Fire" allows certain weapon types to shoot even if moving, but with a BS of 1 (ie. 6 to hit)
- Blast Weapons cannot "snap fire"
- You can only killed as much models in target unit as you can actually see (and within max range).
- Casualties are now removed from closest to furthest.
- Wound Allocation is completely changed.
- When shooting at unit partially in cover, player can choose to "Focus Fire" to kill only models in the open (or in a less covered position).
- You can now throw (most) grenades in the Shooting Phase at the range of 8", limited to 1 grenade per unit per Phase.


Assault Phase
- Charge Distance is now 2D6" adding together.
- Unit can elect to "Overwatch" if being assaulted. Simply a "Stand and Shoot 40K version" - resolved at BS1, Template does D3 hit instead.
- Overwatch can be done only once per turn.
- Unit declaring multiple assaults will suffer from "Disoriented Charge" (not get +1A)
- Unit assaulting multiple enemy unit is subjected to multiple Overwatch.
- Unlike Stand & Shoot, Overwatch does NOT cause Morale Check or Pinning.
- Pile-in reduced to 3" and is done at the model's Initiative Step (ie. before the model could strike)
- Casualties are removed from the front rank, like the case of Shooting Phase
- Units can elect to auto-fail Morale Check at the end of Combat if all models in the unit cannot hurt the attacker at all (ie. S3 vs T10).
- Challenges are in for IC.
- Close-Combat Weapon now have AP value, ranging from AP- to AP1. Pistols don't grant more bonus than in 5th Edition.
- Power SWORD and Lightning Claws are "S: as user" AP3, though Power AXE is S+1, AP2, but is subjected to penalties (Initiative Reduced)
- Fists and Chainfists are Sx2 AP2 and Unwieldy (Intiative reduced to 1), Thunder Hammers has "Concussive" (the exact (or almost) same rules as in 5th Edition)


Vehicles
- Vehicles are now limited to move at the maximum of 12" in the Movement Phase (though it can move further in the Shooting Phase if desired)
- Vehicles can opt to move "Flat Out" in the Shooting Phase, adding an extra 6".
- Vehicles movement and weapons. Defensive and Primary Weapons are gone. You can fire all of your weapons at most of the time. But moving faster will result in less weapon fired at basic BS, the rest will be fired at BS1 (Snap Fire)
- Fast Skimmer moving Flat Out can be more lethal (fire more weapons than in 5th and moving faster [12" Normal + 18" Flat Out])
- Skimmer got a cover save called Jink, basically 5+ cover save and improved to 4+ if going Flat Out.
- Vehicles count as WS0 (auto-hit) if stationary and WS1 (3+ hit) if moved. No idea on how Fast or Skimmer will have bonus, as cover aren't used in Assault.
- Flyers are now in, with its own rules.
- Flyers can move very fast and is hard to target (6 only to hit) unless the shooter has Skystrike rules that allow them to shoot flyer at normal BS.
- When moving fast (called "Zooming") Flyers cannot move less than 12" and cannot disembark any models.

Vehicle and Damage
- New Vehicle Damage Chart, one to rule them all. 1-2 being Shaken, 3 Stunned, 4 and 5 Weapon Destroyed and Immobilised, and 6 Explodes! You only roll the table if the shot penetrate the Armour. Wrecks occur only from taking certain amount of Glancing Hits.
- AP 2 weapons add +1 to the chart, while AP1 adds +2.
- AP"-" is no longer -1 on the table.
- Open-Topped is +1 as well.
- No more "Half Strength if the center hole is off", you always use full strength for any blast that hits the vehicle.
- Hull Points - a new style "wound" for vehicles. Any Glancing Hits removes 1 Hull Point, Penetrate Hit removes 1 Hull Point as well as rolling on the Damage Chart above. If reduced to 0 HP, the vehicle becomes Wreck.
- Vehicles has 3 or 4 HP, notable 4 HP vehicles are Ghost Ark, Land Raider, and Monolith. Details can be found in the rulebook appendix. (Bloodwing stated that some player propose that the formula for Hull Points is Front + Side(once) + Rear divide by 3. Fractions rounding down - this seems to be true.


Vehicle and Passenger
- Passenger can only disembark if vehicle move 0-6".
- Disembarking rules changes, you now place models in base contact with the access point and move up to 6" - this is the furthest distance the unit may move.
- Embarking is pretty much the same.
- Unit count as moving if the vehicle moved 0.1-6", and can only "Snap Fire" if the vehicle move 6.01 - 12"
- Open-topped transport rules are the same (access points and fire points)
- Exploding Flyer that has "zoomed" will result in a S10 no armour save on its passenger. And some sort of S6 Large Blast at any unit under the point the vehicle goes on flame.


Psychic Power
- NO PSYCHIC PHASE (or whatever people are assuming they are)
- Perils of the Warp causes one wound, no saves of any kind allowed.
- Types of psychic power, witchfire (psychic shooting attack), focused witchfire (has a chance to allow player to choose the target model when removing casualty by rolling low scores on Psychic Test), nova (affects all enemy units within range), maelstrom (affecting both friendly and enemy within range), blessing (augmented friend), and malediction (de-buff enemy).
- "Deny the Witch" - every models/units have a slight chance to nullify the effect of psychic power (6+). Chances increase if your unit has Psyker.
- Psychic Hood is reduced to 4+ Deny the Witch if the target of the power is within 6" of the wearer.
- There are 5 new Disciplines of Psychic Powers in the BRB, each has 7 Powers. Each army can access different Disciplines, some cannot use them at all.
- Casting Psychic Power remains the same as in 5th.
- Psychic Powers now have 2 level, calling Warp Charge 1 and 2. Mastery Level 1 can only use Warp Charge 1 power, while Mastery Level 2 allows you to cast 2 "Warp Charge 1" power or 1 "Warp Charge 2". Higher Mastery allows for more.
- Each Psyker generate Warp Charge equal to his Mastery Level.

Characters
- Look Out, Sir! is in. Grants character 50% chance to evade the attack if he's within 6" of friendly unit (works in combat too), resolved each successful Look Out Sir on the models within 6" instead.
- Look Out Sir! is improved to 2+ for Independent Character.
- Character can issue / accept challenges.
- One model in your army will be the Warlord (one with highest LD), Warlord can roll on a table (there's 3 table, you can choose 1) to see what benefit he receive. Examples are units within 12" can use his LD, the Character count as Scoring Units, Warlord has FNP if within 3" of Objective.


Tidbits
- Fortification - a new addition to the FoC, limited to 0-1 this allows player to purchase some kind of terrain for their army. Expensive one are Fortress of Redemption (220 points) and cheap ones are Aegis Defence Lines (50 points)
- Allies - a new system that allows player to have a detachment made of another army in the list. Allies works like WFB8th Edition with best buddies, normal allies, and untrusted. The detachment is limited to 1HQ and 1 Troop(compulsory) and additional 1 Troop, 1 Elite, 1 Fast Attack, and 1 Heavy Support.

Missions
- There are 3 Deployment Types, one being the classic Pitched Battle, second one is reversed Pitched Battle (deploying along the short table edges), and third one is a triangular deployment.
- Selecting deployment zone remains the same, roll-off to see who deploys first and go first.
- Seize Initiative is still the same.
- 6 Missions with 2 Level Objectives. Primary Objectives grants more Victory Points, but harder to achieve. Secondary Objective is always 1 VP and has 3 of them. First Blood (for getting the first "kill point", Slay the Warlord (for killing the enemy Warlord - aka. general), and Linebreaker (having your units in enemy deployment zone at the end of the game)
- Deep Strike Mishap is softened now: 1 - You're Dead, 2-3 Misplaced, and 4-6 Delayed.
- Feel No Pain dropped to 5+
- There's still only 1 Level of Instant Death, no Instant Death(x)
- Fleet allows for re-rolls on Run and possibly Assault distances.
- "Hammer of Wrath" allows model to make single attack at their base strength before combat on the turn it assault. Jump Infantry and Bike have it.
- Monstrous Creature can make "Smash" attack, forfeit half of its attack to resolve attack at Sx2 against vehicle.
- Flying Monstrous Creature can make two mode of movement. One being 24" move, performing D3+1 "Vector Strike" on a single unit within the path and then shoot up to two weapons or run 2D6" in the shooting phase. However, it cannot assault or being assaulted unless it get shot and fall down from the sky first (can't remember how you fire at it, 6 only?) Should it fall from the sky, it will take S9 hit and can now be assaulted as normal.
- Sniper has rule to allow them to allocate wounds to the model of your choice if you roll a 6 when rolling to hit.
- Rage is now +2 Attack on assault.
- Many new generalization of rules...such as Armourbane (roll 2d6 for armour penetration) and Fleshbane (2+ to wound)....this also expands to weapons as well (unwieldy, concussive, etc.)

Read more: http://thetyranidhive.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=38567&page=26#ixzz1yhULJSQ1

   
 
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