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Made in gb
Powerful Pegasus Knight





H.B.M.C. wrote:In those two first examples they're not "allies" insaniak. They're just fighting at the same time. It's not even a 'the enemy of my enemy' situation either.

Don't be so intentionally ignorant of the reasons some of us dislike this. We once had a huge mega-game where Eldar and Chaos fought side by side because the Eldar wanted the Chaos Lord to free his hand from the Wailing Doom he had become bonded to (so their plan was to let him succeed and then attack him). It didn't make them 'allies'.


It does actually make them allies for the period they were fighting together. The definition of allies is two parties united to a common goal. Not two best pals who would do anything for each other.
   
Made in gb
Joined the Military for Authentic Experience






Nuremberg

Man, Nids are getting hosed on those allies rules. I can't believe they couldn't see clear to letting them use the Genestealer Cult idea to ally with Guard or something.

   
Made in us
Thunderhawk Pilot Dropping From Orbit





Dayton, TN

bye bye cookie cutter lists! This change is being looked at so negitive. With the ally rules being added to the mix we won't see "just another GK army, or just another SW army etc." This adds a lot of flavor to the list building.

An earlier post someone was talking about tournament people trying to find the most powerful list...thats kinda the whole point of a tournament - win or do the best you can...that usually means building a powerful list.

If the points games increases by 500 from 2000 making normal games 2500 in order to incorperate some allies or fortifications than its not going to alter game length to much.

Whats going to effect the game length is the learning curve for people to the new rules mostly...stoping to look up rules/powers.

We do not even know 100% what if any restrictions allies will have besides its FOC. All this speculation is for nothing imo. GW could easily say the ally rules are for games over 2k points or something...we don't know, and therefore, we cannot base assumptions until we know 100% what the rules are.

BTW I am for the ally rules. When I started playing 4 years ago I wanted to play SM and Orks because I liked all the models. I did not have the money to buy both armies. With this set up I could have had models I liked from both sides of the fence and still be able to play.

I play Space Wolves Brans Great Company. If allies are used I might look into GK, Legion of the Damned, or IG. Gk and legion of the damned show up unexpectedly to help and Space Wolves have helped IG in the past....fits fluff perfectly imo.

Click the images to see my armies!


 
   
Made in se
Ferocious Black Templar Castellan






Sweden

H.B.M.C. wrote:In those two first examples they're not "allies" insaniak. They're just fighting at the same time. It's not even a 'the enemy of my enemy' situation either.

Don't be so intentionally ignorant of the reasons some of us dislike this. We once had a huge mega-game where Eldar and Chaos fought side by side because the Eldar wanted the Chaos Lord to free his hand from the Wailing Doom he had become bonded to (so their plan was to let him succeed and then attack him). It didn't make them 'allies'.


Which is why the rulebook lists them as alliances of conveniance rather than just allies.

For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back. 
   
Made in nz
Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine





In The depths of a Tomb World, placing demo charges.

Glorioski wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:In those two first examples they're not "allies" insaniak. They're just fighting at the same time. It's not even a 'the enemy of my enemy' situation either.

Don't be so intentionally ignorant of the reasons some of us dislike this. We once had a huge mega-game where Eldar and Chaos fought side by side because the Eldar wanted the Chaos Lord to free his hand from the Wailing Doom he had become bonded to (so their plan was to let him succeed and then attack him). It didn't make them 'allies'.


It does actually make them allies for the period they were fighting together. The definition of allies is two parties united to a common goal. Not two best pals who would do anything for each other.


indeed, such alliances could also form on the fly when two forces already engaged are both attacked by a third and simply focus their attention on this new enemy without a word being exchanged between commanders or warlords or whatever they are called now.

personally, i'm keen to reboot my iron warriors with artillery and a traitor guard meatsheild segment. just like in the novel, "Storm of iron."

]
 
   
Made in au
Horrific Howling Banshee





Had a quick search, couldnt find if this had been posted. From someone who has seen the book on a website (http://www.fastdicerolling.com/forum/topic/305-6th-edition-information-thread-with-rules-on-page-3/page__st__40__p__4502_)

Core System

- Change to Pre-Measure like WHFB 8th Edition.
- Force Organization Chart is still in use, no use of Percentage
- Adding new FoC Slot called "Fortification" [0-1] / see below
- Phases remains the same, Movement, Shooting, and then Assault
- No Psychic Phase
- No Initiative Phase


Movement Phase
- Movement is pretty much the same. Infantry can move 6", Jump Infantry 12" and so on.

Shooting Phase
- Rapid Fire weapons can now fire at target 24" away irregardless of moving or not. (or choose to fire twice at target 12" away)
- Pistol is pretty much the same.
- New Weapon type "Salvo" - firing at max. range & max. shots if not move, or 1/2 range and 1/2 shots if moving.
- Heavy Weapon can now be fired on the move, but will be subjected to 'snap fire' rule.
- "Snap Fire" allows certain weapon types to shoot even if moving, but with a BS of 1 (ie. 6 to hit)
- Blast Weapons cannot "snap fire"
- You can only killed as much models in target unit as you can actually see (and within max range).
- Casualties are now removed from closest to furthest.
- Wound Allocation is completely changed.
- When shooting at unit partially in cover, player can choose to "Focus Fire" to kill only models in the open (or in a less covered position).
- You can now throw (most) grenades in the Shooting Phase at the range of 8", limited to 1 grenade per unit per Phase.


Assault Phase
- Charge Distance is now 2D6" adding together.
- Unit can elect to "Overwatch" if being assaulted. Simply a "Stand and Shoot 40K version" - resolved at BS1, Template does D3 hit instead.
- Overwatch can be done only once per turn.
- Unit declaring multiple assaults will suffer from "Disoriented Charge" (not get +1A)
- Unit assaulting multiple enemy unit is subjected to multiple Overwatch.
- Unlike Stand & Shoot, Overwatch does NOT cause Morale Check or Pinning.
- Pile-in reduced to 3" and is done at the model's Initiative Step (ie. before the model could strike)
- Casualties are removed from the front rank, like the case of Shooting Phase
- Units can elect to auto-fail Morale Check at the end of Combat if all models in the unit cannot hurt the attacker at all (ie. S3 vs T10).
- Challenges are in for IC.
- Close-Combat Weapon now have AP value, ranging from AP- to AP1. Pistols don't grant more bonus than in 5th Edition.
- Power SWORD and Lightning Claws are "S: as user" AP3, though Power AXE is S+1, AP2, but is subjected to penalties (Initiative Reduced)
- Fists and Chainfists are Sx2 AP2 and Unwieldy (Intiative reduced to 1), Thunder Hammers has "Concussive" (the exact (or almost) same rules as in 5th Edition)


Vehicles
- Vehicles are now limited to move at the maximum of 12" in the Movement Phase (though it can move further in the Shooting Phase if desired)
- Vehicles can opt to move "Flat Out" in the Shooting Phase, adding an extra 6".
- Vehicles movement and weapons. Defensive and Primary Weapons are gone. You can fire all of your weapons at most of the time. But moving faster will result in less weapon fired at basic BS, the rest will be fired at BS1 (Snap Fire)
- Fast Skimmer moving Flat Out can be more lethal (fire more weapons than in 5th and moving faster [12" Normal + 18" Flat Out])
- Skimmer got a cover save called Jink, basically 5+ cover save and improved to 4+ if going Flat Out.
- Vehicles count as WS0 (auto-hit) if stationary and WS1 (3+ hit) if moved. No idea on how Fast or Skimmer will have bonus, as cover aren't used in Assault.
- Flyers are now in, with its own rules.
- Flyers can move very fast and is hard to target (6 only to hit) unless the shooter has Skystrike rules that allow them to shoot flyer at normal BS.
- When moving fast (called "Zooming") Flyers cannot move less than 12" and cannot disembark any models.

Vehicle and Damage
- New Vehicle Damage Chart, one to rule them all. 1-2 being Shaken, 3 Stunned, 4 and 5 Weapon Destroyed and Immobilised, and 6 Explodes! You only roll the table if the shot penetrate the Armour. Wrecks occur only from taking certain amount of Glancing Hits.
- AP 2 weapons add +1 to the chart, while AP1 adds +2.
- AP"-" is no longer -1 on the table.
- Open-Topped is +1 as well.
- No more "Half Strength if the center hole is off", you always use full strength for any blast that hits the vehicle.
- Hull Points - a new style "wound" for vehicles. Any Glancing Hits removes 1 Hull Point, Penetrate Hit removes 1 Hull Point as well as rolling on the Damage Chart above. If reduced to 0 HP, the vehicle becomes Wreck.
- Vehicles has 3 or 4 HP, notable 4 HP vehicles are Ghost Ark, Land Raider, and Monolith. Details can be found in the rulebook appendix. (Bloodwing stated that some player propose that the formula for Hull Points is Front + Side(once) + Rear divide by 3. Fractions rounding down - this seems to be true.


Vehicle and Passenger
- Passenger can only disembark if vehicle move 0-6".
- Disembarking rules changes, you now place models in base contact with the access point and move up to 6" - this is the furthest distance the unit may move.
- Embarking is pretty much the same.
- Unit count as moving if the vehicle moved 0.1-6", and can only "Snap Fire" if the vehicle move 6.01 - 12"
- Open-topped transport rules are the same (access points and fire points)
- Exploding Flyer that has "zoomed" will result in a S10 no armour save on its passenger. And some sort of S6 Large Blast at any unit under the point the vehicle goes on flame.


Psychic Power
- NO PSYCHIC PHASE (or whatever people are assuming they are)
- Perils of the Warp causes one wound, no saves of any kind allowed.
- Types of psychic power, witchfire (psychic shooting attack), focused witchfire (has a chance to allow player to choose the target model when removing casualty by rolling low scores on Psychic Test), nova (affects all enemy units within range), maelstrom (affecting both friendly and enemy within range), blessing (augmented friend), and malediction (de-buff enemy).
- "Deny the Witch" - every models/units have a slight chance to nullify the effect of psychic power (6+). Chances increase if your unit has Psyker.
- Psychic Hood is reduced to 4+ Deny the Witch if the target of the power is within 6" of the wearer.
- There are 5 new Disciplines of Psychic Powers in the BRB, each has 7 Powers. Each army can access different Disciplines, some cannot use them at all.
- Casting Psychic Power remains the same as in 5th.
- Psychic Powers now have 2 level, calling Warp Charge 1 and 2. Mastery Level 1 can only use Warp Charge 1 power, while Mastery Level 2 allows you to cast 2 "Warp Charge 1" power or 1 "Warp Charge 2". Higher Mastery allows for more.
- Each Psyker generate Warp Charge equal to his Mastery Level.

Characters
- Look Out, Sir! is in. Grants character 50% chance to evade the attack if he's within 6" of friendly unit (works in combat too), resolved each successful Look Out Sir on the models within 6" instead.
- Look Out Sir! is improved to 2+ for Independent Character.
- Character can issue / accept challenges.
- One model in your army will be the Warlord (one with highest LD), Warlord can roll on a table (there's 3 table, you can choose 1) to see what benefit he receive. Examples are units within 12" can use his LD, the Character count as Scoring Units, Warlord has FNP if within 3" of Objective.


Tidbits
- Fortification - a new addition to the FoC, limited to 0-1 this allows player to purchase some kind of terrain for their army. Expensive one are Fortress of Redemption (220 points) and cheap ones are Aegis Defence Lines (50 points)
- Allies - a new system that allows player to have a detachment made of another army in the list. Allies works like WFB8th Edition with best buddies, normal allies, and untrusted. The detachment is limited to 1HQ and 1 Troop(compulsory) and additional 1 Troop, 1 Elite, 1 Fast Attack, and 1 Heavy Support.

Missions
- There are 3 Deployment Types, one being the classic Pitched Battle, second one is reversed Pitched Battle (deploying along the short table edges), and third one is a triangular deployment.
- Selecting deployment zone remains the same, roll-off to see who deploys first and go first.
- Seize Initiative is still the same.
- 6 Missions with 2 Level Objectives. Primary Objectives grants more Victory Points, but harder to achieve. Secondary Objective is always 1 VP and has 3 of them. First Blood (for getting the first "kill point", Slay the Warlord (for killing the enemy Warlord - aka. general), and Linebreaker (having your units in enemy deployment zone at the end of the game)
- Deep Strike Mishap is softened now: 1 - You're Dead, 2-3 Misplaced, and 4-6 Delayed.
- Feel No Pain dropped to 5+
- There's still only 1 Level of Instant Death, no Instant Death(x)
- Fleet allows for re-rolls on Run and possibly Assault distances.
- "Hammer of Wrath" allows model to make single attack at their base strength before combat on the turn it assault. Jump Infantry and Bike have it.
- Monstrous Creature can make "Smash" attack, forfeit half of its attack to resolve attack at Sx2 against vehicle.
- Flying Monstrous Creature can make two mode of movement. One being 24" move, performing D3+1 "Vector Strike" on a single unit within the path and then shoot up to two weapons or run 2D6" in the shooting phase. However, it cannot assault or being assaulted unless it get shot and fall down from the sky first (can't remember how you fire at it, 6 only?) Should it fall from the sky, it will take S9 hit and can now be assaulted as normal.
- Sniper has rule to allow them to allocate wounds to the model of your choice if you roll a 6 when rolling to hit.
- Rage is now +2 Attack on assault.
- Many new generalization of rules...such as Armourbane (roll 2d6 for armour penetration) and Fleshbane (2+ to wound)....this also expands to weapons as well (unwieldy, concussive, etc.)
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Making Stuff






Under the couch

H.B.M.C. wrote:In those two first examples they're not "allies" insaniak. They're just fighting at the same time. It's not even a 'the enemy of my enemy' situation either.

Isn't that what the 'Allies of Convenience' rules are intended to represent, though? Armies that aren't actually on the same side, but just happen to find themselves temporarily heading in the same direction?


Don't be so intentionally ignorant of the reasons some of us dislike this. We once had a huge mega-game where Eldar and Chaos fought side by side because the Eldar wanted the Chaos Lord to free his hand from the Wailing Doom he had become bonded to (so their plan was to let him succeed and then attack him). It didn't make them 'allies'.

So would it make you feel better about the re-introduction of Allies rules if they had called them something else?

Don't get me wrong, I understand the concerns over game balance. But from a fluff point of view, when something doesn't immediately seem to fit, you have the choice of complaining that it doesn't fit, or finding an explanation that lets it fit.

Speaking as someone who enjoys the game and the background behind it, I find it more productive to go with the latter option, since the former just results in the fluff being broken... thus lessening my enjoyment of it. YMMV.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/06/24 09:40:20


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Bellevue, WA

Glorioski wrote:Probably because he wants to devour their souls.

I could see maybe them working with Khorne against Slaanesh, but yeh that's the hardest one to explain.


I don't think the DE hating something would stop them from using that something against their enemies. If a sadistic, callous DE raider get's a chance to bind some of his most hated foes (daemons) and send them to their almost certain death at the hands of his other hated foes, I think that's one of his best days ever. I doubt the DE and daemons had a cup of tea and a game of golf before battle - someone is using someone else. I don't see either daemons or DE as above manipulating or forcing the other into combat for fun or profit.
   
Made in de
Fixture of Dakka






Columbia, SC (USA)

Blasts use full strength against vehicles even if the center hole isn't over the vehicle?

If that turns out to be true then IG LRBTs and artillery (especially the Manticore) just got better. A battery of three Griffons might make its way back into my army to join the Manticore and Hydras. Especially with flyers and Necrons that cause Night Fight as well as the possible return of more infantry.

The secret to painting a really big army is to keep at it. You can't reach your destination if you never take any steps.

I build IG...lots and lots of IG.  
   
Made in fi
Sniping Gŭiláng





Allies rules is definitely a positive.

Instead of getting 1000+points of dudes to start a new army, you can just get one squad and HQ character as allies for your current army and keep expanding 1 slot at the time.

Soon you'll have a playable another army!
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Making Stuff






Under the couch

JB wrote:Blasts use full strength against vehicles even if the center hole isn't over the vehicle?

They always used to. It was only with 5th edition that was introduced.

 
   
Made in us
Sneaky Sniper Drone





Fairbanks, Alaska

- New Weapon type "Salvo" - firing at max. range & max. shots if not move, or 1/2 range and 1/2 shots if moving.


$100 bet on this is going to be the new fire type for Pulse Rifles, because how dare Fire Warriors get decent.

*edit: NVM firing max shots at max range without moving would actually be amazing. I would prefer firing 2 shots at 30" and maintain the the rapid fire-esq nerf.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/06/24 09:58:20


Assembled and painted:
~9000pts
Player of The Tau Empire since release in 2001

“Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” 
   
Made in gb
Oberstleutnant





Back in the English morass

Kal-El wrote:bye bye cookie cutter lists! This change is being looked at so negitive. With the ally rules being added to the mix we won't see "just another GK army, or just another SW army etc." This adds a lot of flavor to the list building.


There will still be 'cookie cutter' lists, they may be more varied than now but there will still be the problem of identical 'internet' lists. The only thing that will have a good chance at preventing them is for GW to suddenly realise that all their armies need to be internally and externally balanced and not just thrown together with little real playtesting.

RegalPhantom wrote:
If your fluff doesn't fit, change your fluff until it does
The prefect example of someone missing the point.
Do not underestimate the Squats. They survived for millenia cut off from the Imperium and assailed on all sides. Their determination and resilience is an example to us all.
-Leman Russ, Meditations on Imperial Command book XVI (AKA the RT era White Dwarf Commpendium).
Its just a shame that they couldn't fight off Andy Chambers.
Warzone Plog 
   
Made in cn
Blackclad Wayfarer





From England. Living in Shanghai

There are plenty of explanations if you try hard enough. The most basic that quickly comes to mind is that it isn't real. Each allied battle is simply a holographic representation of a Doomsday scenario. A whole lot of "what if..." cases.

Gameplay wise it does leave a system open to abuse. I have faith enough in T.O's to stop this from happening where it matters though.

Looking for games in Shanghai? Send a PM 
   
Made in se
Dakka Veteran





Aeon wrote:Had a quick search, couldnt find if this had been posted.

Try checking the previous page...
   
Made in de
Fixture of Dakka






Columbia, SC (USA)

insaniak wrote:
JB wrote:Blasts use full strength against vehicles even if the center hole isn't over the vehicle?

They always used to. It was only with 5th edition that was introduced.


Yes, I know that but the Manticore didn't exist in earlier editions. Seems that a good way to get rid of a zooming flyer is just to drop a Manticore rocket on it. BS1 doesn't matter much when you roll a hit on the scatter die or scatter a bit but end up with 2-3 large templates that might still touch the flyer.

Food for thought...yum.



The secret to painting a really big army is to keep at it. You can't reach your destination if you never take any steps.

I build IG...lots and lots of IG.  
   
Made in gb
Servoarm Flailing Magos





The guard's pie plates in general just got a lot better. A Demolisher cannon will touch a Land Raider like 90% of the time, with a 75% chance of hurting it.
Russes in general will rip Rhinos a new one

Ever thought 40k would be a lot better with bears?
Codex: Bears.
NOW WITH MR BIGGLES AND HIS AMAZING FLYING CONTRAPTION 
   
Made in si
Foxy Wildborne







JB wrote: Seems that a good way to get rid of a zooming flyer is just to drop a Manticore rocket on it. BS1 doesn't matter much when you roll a hit on the scatter die or scatter a bit but end up with 2-3 large templates that might still touch the flyer.


You're kidding yourself if you think you'll be able to fire artillery at airplanes.

The old meta is dead and the new meta struggles to be born. Now is the time of munchkins. 
   
Made in dk
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon




Denmark

Even though the fluff of the 40K universe is what matters the most to me, I actually don't really mind the reintroduced "Allies" rules.

I'm not going to play the WAAC guys that will just mix and match any army to come up with the most powerful build anyway, I only play opponents who treat their armies and the background of said armies with care, so I won't get to face Ork/GK if the guy I know who plays GK can't justify it fluffwise.
.
These "new" rules would mean that I might even finally finish that Angels Sanguine assault squad to go with my armoured IG regiment, so they could aid my force at higher point levels if all the other guys I play with also get to chose fluffy allies as well if we all agree on it.

The only guy I'm worried about is the guy who have a fully painted and converted 'Nid army, I really don't hope that he gets left out in the cold.

2500pts Da Blitza Boyz! (Orks) 70% painted.

My Ork P&M Blog:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/564900.page
 
   
Made in us
Shas'o Commanding the Hunter Kadre




Missouri

Palindrome wrote:
Kal-El wrote:bye bye cookie cutter lists! This change is being looked at so negitive. With the ally rules being added to the mix we won't see "just another GK army, or just another SW army etc." This adds a lot of flavor to the list building.


There will still be 'cookie cutter' lists, they may be more varied than now but there will still be the problem of identical 'internet' lists. The only thing that will have a good chance at preventing them is for GW to suddenly realise that all their armies need to be internally and externally balanced and not just thrown together with little real playtesting.


This. "Cookie cutter" lists are GW's fault, not the players. GW are the ones designing the codices so that there are obvious duds and no-brainer choices for every army. If everything was balanced and had a reason to be used there wouldn't be that problem.

 Desubot wrote:
Why isnt Slut Wars: The Sexpocalypse a real game dammit.


"It's easier to change the rules than to get good at the game." 
   
Made in de
Fixture of Dakka






Columbia, SC (USA)

lord_blackfang wrote:
JB wrote: Seems that a good way to get rid of a zooming flyer is just to drop a Manticore rocket on it. BS1 doesn't matter much when you roll a hit on the scatter die or scatter a bit but end up with 2-3 large templates that might still touch the flyer.


You're kidding yourself if you think you'll be able to fire artillery at airplanes.


You're probably right when they are zooming but that's why I've also got the Hydras in my list...but OTH if a zooming flyer is affected by blast templates aimed at some other unit then I'll be happy to use any hit on the 2nd or 3rd template to touch a nearby flyer.

In addition, nothing has ruled out zooming flyers being affected by artillery. We only know that you cannot assault them and that shooting at them uses BS1, which doesn't matter much to barrage weapons.


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/06/24 10:55:27


The secret to painting a really big army is to keep at it. You can't reach your destination if you never take any steps.

I build IG...lots and lots of IG.  
   
Made in fi
Longtime Dakkanaut




Griever wrote:
Just because they "write" the fluff, doesn't mean I have to like it. They' completely and utterly altered the very fabric of the universe they've created. The people who originally creaed the game and the universe we love don't even work for the the company now. The people that created the game I loved have long since left, and the people who are left have completely and utterly ruined it.


"The people that created the game" were the ones who originally designed the allies rules and wrote the fluff.

Modern fluff has that SOME factions within the Imperium are fanatically hostile against any Xenos influence, this has caused some to believe that EVERYONE within the Imperium is equally hostile. This is blatantly not so and has never been so.

Mr Vetock, give back my Multi-tracker! 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




More info from the "Tyranid Hive"

http://thetyranidhive.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=38567&page=26


Looks like PW are AP3 =(

Everything else looks good.
   
Made in gb
Thinking of Joining a Davinite Loge





Somewhere in the dark...

With vehicles taking such a nerf, the temptation to take anti tank weaponry might actually see many people disappointed when they realise all their potent anti tank stuff has no tanks to aim at because nobody will take them. I really want to see the Erratas to weapons more than anything else now. And whether the deep strike mechanic has changed.



 
   
Made in au
Esteemed Veteran Space Marine





Australia

Absolutionis wrote:
Reivax26 wrote:I wonder how many people are going to leave 40k and start playing Warmachine?

4 people in my gaming group have already sold their 40k armies and picked up their armies from Privateer Press and are asking me when I am going to join them. To be honest its sounding better and better with every passing day.

I only have one complaint about 6th...I don't like the 2d6 for the charge distance. My major complaint is that in a world wide economy like the one we are in GW can justify someone paying $82.50 for a Stormraven or $75 for a Land Raider.

If you want to generate new players and get them involved in the tabletop gaming genre jacking prices through the roof isn't a good way to do it. I can understand the $75 for the rulebook now that I have found out more about it. Its a really thick hardback book with a bunch of really cool artwork and its got the new rules. Oddly enough the preorder prices on Ebay are between $54 and $62.


Warmachine isn't the only option out there. On a model-to-model basis, it's just as expensive as Games Workshop's models.

You complain about $75 Land Raiders and $83 Storm Ravens and yet you're fine with the $130 PP Colossals of comparable size?
A typical HQ in 40k costs $20 in Power Armor or $22.25 in Terminator Armor. A typical Warcaster in Warmachine costs $16-20 if infantry or $23-25 if larger.
A typical Space Marine in GW is $5-6 in a plastic boxed set with accessories. A typical PP grunt is about $5-6 in metal with no accesories.

They're comparable.

The only thing that is concerning is the initial investment for new players that have to get a whole new army.
For those of us already invested in Warhammer, the difference is negligible.


Regardless, if you want Warmachine-style gameplay at a lower cost, play Magic the Gathering. If you want Warmachine-style aesthetics at lower cost, play World of Warcraft. If you want just a great miniatures game at lower cost, play Infinity or Malifaux. If you want to just push miniatures around at a lower cost and throw dice mindlessly, play Flames or War or something by Spartan Games.

There are many options out there; don't let yourself be tricked into a false dichotomy.

'

Nope. Magic is just as, if not more expensive. But the resell value of cards is better than miniatures and you can win SERIOUS money if your the best.

DT:90S++++G++M--B++I+pw40k08#+D++A+++/mWD-R++T(T)DM+


I am Blue/White
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
<small>Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.</small>

I'm both orderly and rational. I value control, information, and order. I love structure and hierarchy, and will actively use whatever power or knowledge I have to maintain it. At best, I am lawful and insightful; at worst, I am bureaucratic and tyrannical.
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Made in de
Decrepit Dakkanaut







H.B.M.C. wrote:But some of these combinations don't make sense.

Dark Eldar with Daemons?
Tau with Daemons?
Orks with Grey Knights?

Eldar: "Hi, Black Templar Monkeighs! We are a race of latent psykers who created Slaanesh. Would you like to be a meatshield for Eldrad and his council of Alpha-Psykers?"
Black Templar: "Sure, why not."


BTW updated the first post with the interesting rumours by ZAlpha from fastdicerolling.com and the officially announced delay on dice and measure tape (as mentioned before):
GW Facebook page wrote:Due to problems with the warp, the limited edition dice sets and the servo-skull tape measure - as shown in White Dwarf this month - have been delayed. (These are standard sets, not the red ones that come with the Gamers' Edition.) We'll let everyone know as soon as they're available to order, but for now please accept our apologies. Now, to purge some Daemons...


Oh, and as it has caused some confusion:
Once a regional contingent of a limited edition thing (e.g. Aus/NZ Collector's Edition) is sold out, it is taken from that regional website. Guess, Australians were amazed by the low prices and sold out first

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/06/24 10:58:46


Hive Fleet Ouroboros (my Tyranid blog): http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/286852.page
The Dusk-Wraiths of Szith Morcane (my Dark Eldar blog): http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/364786.page
Kroothawk's Malifaux Blog http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/455759.page
If you want to understand the concept of the "Greater Good", read this article, and you never again call Tau commies: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utilitarianism 
   
Made in de
Fixture of Dakka






Columbia, SC (USA)

ColdSadHungry wrote:With vehicles taking such a nerf, the temptation to take anti tank weaponry might actually see many people disappointed when they realise all their potent anti tank stuff has no tanks to aim at because nobody will take them. I really want to see the Erratas to weapons more than anything else now. And whether the deep strike mechanic has changed.


From an IG perspective, it still makes sense to keep a lot of our current AT. Melta, autocannons, Hydras, and Manticores have multiple uses. The Vendettas may matter less but the likelihood of more flyers and the ability to Grav Chute a squad even during a Flat Out move keep the "crown" on the king of IG vehicles.

Drop pods may end up making more sense for armies in lieu of Rhinos and Razorbacks.



The secret to painting a really big army is to keep at it. You can't reach your destination if you never take any steps.

I build IG...lots and lots of IG.  
   
Made in gb
Waaagh! Warbiker





Hey not sure if any else has pointed this out ( haven't read the whole thread ) but on the youtube trailer from Friday they showed a page from the BRB about vehicles, i had a look and paused it at the 1m20s marks (roughly) and notice a list of vehicles:

fast
flyer
heavy
chariot
hover

opened topped
skimmer
tank
transport
walker

Also noticed that flyers scatter 2d6 when destroyed and use the large blast marker causing S6 AP- to units under templates, also models who where inside must be placed within 3" of the center hole or be removed.
Hope that helps =)

Plus it's fairly credible that a GW marketing campaign for their biggest release would fit on one side of A4 - Flashman  
   
Made in gb
Trustworthy Shas'vre






Dorset, UK

Y'know the Deny the Witch? Is that for powers that target the enemy or just any power in general? I want to know if that means the enemy can stop Hammerhand.
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

insaniak wrote:Isn't that what the 'Allies of Convenience' rules are intended to represent, though? Armies that aren't actually on the same side, but just happen to find themselves temporarily heading in the same direction?


And how is that functionally different from "best friends forever" style allies?

insaniak wrote:Speaking as someone who enjoys the game and the background behind it, I find it more productive to go with the latter option, since the former just results in the fluff being broken... thus lessening my enjoyment of it. YMMV.


Can't you see that for some of us doing that is what breaks the fluff?

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
 
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