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Where are you getting these figures for the number of orks? I swear you're just making it up.

The ork navy is surpirsingly weak. (I'm not going to call Roks part of the navy...they are roks.) Orks weren't born with "space legs", they like fighting close up, not from a viewport. Humans however, have been able to be BRED into a sailors life. If it is Imperium Vs Orks in space, Imperium winz hand down. The closest thing the orks have to a tactic is CHAAAAAAARGE/Waagh. This is not always going to work. And a smart captain/admiral will ALWAYS be able to manipulate the orks however he wishes.

FYI, If it came down to it, the Imperium would not hesitate to blow the crap out of ALL thier planets ('cept the big important ones).

I think the Imperial Guard could easily exceed 20 billion.

20 billion is probably around a hive world's population, and there are probably about a hundred of those around.

Not getting into the Planetary Defense forces, who could easily outnumber them 20 to 1 (but aren't important enough to get space support; the IG is actually very elite).

Emperor's Faithful, do you really know anything about ork space capabilities? They spontaneously board space hulks for the fun of it, and quickly form fully functional space fleets from nothing whenever a Waaagh is called. To be honest, I don't think you know what you're talking about here. If orks didn't have good space capabilities they wouldn't be the threat they are.

I'm just saying that an ork fleet does not have the cohesivness, nor the effectiveness, of an Imperial Fleet. What ork have you heard of that thinks in SPACE tactis. (And please don't just shout "RAM!" or "BOARD!")

20 billion guardsmen seems low. I base my army off the Fortress Hive-World of Coronis Agathon. its YEARLY tithe of troops is 1,000,000,000. im not making this up in in the rulebook. im thinking AT LEAST 150 billion. not that surprising considering all the hive-worlds and the million or so planets the Imperium has...

I have read in the BRB that the ESTIMATED number of Hive Worlds was 3.238 X 10 (to the power of 4), I'm not that great at maths. And this was just a hive world with a yearly tithe of 1,249,000 per annum. And a pop of 154billion.

And this isn't even including the FORTRESS worlds.

The tyranids did fairly well with basic tactics, and they have far lower quality ships than the orks.

My knowledge of BFG isn't great, but it would seem that a "Snorta" class ork battleship and a "Gothic" class Imperial battleship are pretty comparable.

Also, "Orkimedes" was a great (group of) tactician(s), so there are orks with capability.

I think the orks stand a good chance of winning.

1-space battles- short term, the imperium has better ships, but they also take a much longer time to build new ships.
Add in the fact that the imperium often seems to lose/forget how to build things, the replacement ships they eventually build will be, to a degree, less effective then previous ships.
The orks, on the other hand, can get ships out much faster, due to the ramshack nature of ork construction, and inherent toughness of ork physiology that lets them survive on ships with much rougher condition.

2- the virus bombs- how many does the imperium still have, and are they even capable of producing new ones at this point. With any given "imperium super weapon" you have to factor in if they can still actually produce them, or if they have a set stockpile.
Also with the big weapons, the more then bring them out, the higher chance they'll eventually lose at least a few to the orks, and then its just a matter of time til a mekboy recreates it to a degree, or uses it as inspiration to for something truly impressive in an orky way

3- about orks being united- a fight of this size, the word would spread. Orks love a good fight, and tales of a war of this scale would bring orks in numbers uncountable (i'm not going to make up some huge number of orks, since people keep targeting them, but i feel there are a great many orks)

to sum up, while i think the imperium has what it takes to hold off the orks in the short term, i think they would eventually be overrun

1-The Space hulks that orks comandeer hardly match up to the Battleships of the Imperium. Imperials are better sailors. Hands down. Don't dispute it. The only point where such basic tactics work is where you outnumber your enemy. And frankly, spacewise, the orks don't have the numerical advantage.

2-They can make them, but VERY, VERRRRRRRY slowly. And they have respectable stockpile, most kept on mars. I was just saying that when push comes to shove, the imperium won't hesitate to use em.

3-They'd get bored of waiting for that fight sooner or later. True, they won't fight if the enemey is right in thier face. But orks are easily bored. Infighting WOULD happen.

Emperors Faithful wrote:1-The Space hulks that orks comandeer hardly match up to the Battleships of the Imperium. Imperials are better sailors. Hands down. Don't dispute it. The only point where such basic tactics work is where you outnumber your enemy. And frankly, spacewise, the orks don't have the numerical advantage.

2-They can make them, but VERY, VERRRRRRRY slowly. And they have respectable stockpile, most kept on mars. I was just saying that when push comes to shove, the imperium won't hesitate to use em.

3-They'd get bored of waiting for that fight sooner or later. True, they won't fight if the enemey is right in thier face. But orks are easily bored. Infighting WOULD happen.

1-i realize that orks don't build ships of the same quality, or make as good of sailers (though telling me not to dispute it is a touch annoying), what i'm saying is that orks can go for a quantity over quality effect. As for numeric advantage, how long does it take orks to cobble a fleet together, how long does it take the imperium.
orks are willing to take losses that humans won't, if nothing else, i could see orks winning engagements simply by plowing into the imperium ships, so they can fight up close

2-really? cause most of the time in the books/fluff i've heard the imperium mention some of their more impressive weapons, it almost always seems to talk about how irreplaceable they are.
3- if it was only a couple of planets then yea, the orks could very well start infighting, but with the entire imperium as an orky target, and no one else out there, I image that in true ork fashion, they would just start launching into the warp in the imperiums direction, popping out who knows where

Manchu wrote:

ChaoticOrkz wrote:Well all we greeniez need to do is pray to gork, mork, and Jeebus and we be alright!

Ah yes, the infamous "Gork and Mork are undefeatable" strategy. Tell that to their prophet, Gazhgkull Mag Uruk Thraka. If you can catch up to him, that is, as he runs as fast as he can away from Yarrick.

So wait - if the Imperium removed it's "No clones, cause that's bad, Mmkay?" law, then all that the IG would need to do is clone a million, billion Yarricks and the Orks would simply flee the Galaxy, leaving trails of frightened urine in their wake?

Excellent...

Metallifan who says the Orks aint going to steal the technolgy.

Is Yarrich even alive, i mean it was his day of retirement when the second war of Armagdenn, and fifty years later is the 3d war!

Emporers faithfull ok there 154 billion humans up against trillions of Orks.

Not every civilan can fight, so there gonna be about possibly 80 billion, maybe more guard.

An ork will beat a human hands down in a fight, the lasgun wouldnt take down an Ork boy that fast, and i dont think you understand the amount of Orks were talking about.

Imagine in your head a million guard. Rows and rows of guard with lasguns across there chest. Now imagine 80 Billion Guard, that is so much guard you wouldnt be able to see them all. Now imagine a trillion Orks all lined up, thats a bloody lot.

Xav wrote:Metallifan who says the Orks aint going to steal the technolgy.

Is Yarrich even alive, i mean it was his day of retirement when the second war of Armagdenn, and fifty years later is the 3d war!

Wait wait wait... Are you saying... ....Looted Yarrick? That is the single best picture I have ever had in my mind. Even better than the Looted Emperor drawing. If I ever start an Ork Army, I may just have to build a Looted Yarrick for the hell of it

Lol Looted Yarrich sounds fun but i was talking about the clone tech, and does the 'umans even have that tech.

cloning technology does already exist. lol more than half of IG players include Creed in their lists including myself. thats a lot of Creed-cloning hur hur hur.

Emperors Faithful wrote:First of all the orks would fight between each other and kill lots of orks.

No they wouldn't. Ghazghkull gave the the Orks of Urk an Ultimatum. To attack Armageddon and what happened. They didn't attack each other because of Ghazghkull. He united them all under one banner. If Ghazghkull, being the prophet and all, united the entire Ork Race under his banner, they will not kill each other.

Think about it.

The Orks would outnumber the Imperium a million to one. At Armageddon, Ghazghkull had over TWELVE Space Hulks and TWO THOUSAND Ships. There are trillions of Orks. Just from 12 Space Hulks and over 2000 Ships, Armageddon took massive punishment from the Orks and Ghazghkull and his allies are a very tiny fraction of the amount of existing Orks. The Orks have enough Space Hulks to have at least 50 Space Hulks attacking each Imperial planet.

Eat that

Nailz94 wrote:The Orks would outnumber the Imperium a million to one. At Armageddon, Ghazghkull had over TWELVE Space Hulks and TWO THOUSAND Ships. There are trillions of Orks. Just from 12 Space Hulks and over 2000 Ships, Armageddon took massive punishment from the Orks and Ghazghkull and his allies are a very tiny fraction of the amount of existing Orks. The Orks have enough Space Hulks to have at least 50 Space Hulks attacking each Imperial planet.

Eat that

And yet Ghazghkull, who was an exception to the rule in terms of getting the orks to unify, still managed to fail. I suggest you eat it yourself.

Emperors Faithful wrote:1-The Space hulks that orks comandeer hardly match up to the Battleships of the Imperium.

Yeah, but dude.

There's enough Space Hulks to outnumber all the Imperial Battleships.

Don't get me started on Ork Roks.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Manchu wrote:

Nailz94 wrote:The Orks would outnumber the Imperium a million to one. At Armageddon, Ghazghkull had over TWELVE Space Hulks and TWO THOUSAND Ships. There are trillions of Orks. Just from 12 Space Hulks and over 2000 Ships, Armageddon took massive punishment from the Orks and Ghazghkull and his allies are a very tiny fraction of the amount of existing Orks. The Orks have enough Space Hulks to have at least 50 Space Hulks attacking each Imperial planet.

Eat that

And yet Ghazghkull, who was an exception to the rule in terms of getting the orks to unify, still managed to fail.

Yes, because he didn't unify enough Orks to take Armageddon. If the entire Ork race united, they could probably take out entire planetary systems in a matter of hours.

I think you're forgetting that

1. We outnumber you humie gitz.
2. Ork Reproduction Rates are incredibly fast. ( A lot faster than humans )
3. The Orkoid Race have been living longer than the Human Race.

Ha!

Manchu wrote:

Nailz94 wrote:The Orks would outnumber the Imperium a million to one. At Armageddon, Ghazghkull had over TWELVE Space Hulks and TWO THOUSAND Ships. There are trillions of Orks. Just from 12 Space Hulks and over 2000 Ships, Armageddon took massive punishment from the Orks and Ghazghkull and his allies are a very tiny fraction of the amount of existing Orks. The Orks have enough Space Hulks to have at least 50 Space Hulks attacking each Imperial planet.

Eat that

And yet Ghazghkull, who was an exception to the rule in terms of getting the orks to unify, still managed to fail. I suggest you eat it yourself.

But, Ghasghkull never intended to conquer Arm(3rd war) he wanted to put it in a state of eternal war, so he could take the rest of the sector with little to no effort(that's from the codex, so don't go on that I made it up)

Nailz94 wrote:I think you're forgetting that

1. We outnumber you humie gitz.
2. Ork Reproduction Rates are incredibly fast. ( A lot faster than humans )
3. The Orkoid Race have been living longer than the Human Race.

*yawn*
(1) Doesn't matter: orks are poorly trained and equipped and lack discipline.
(2) The casualties will not be replaced fast enough to deal with Imperium super weapons.
(3) And in all that time they have accomplished virtually nothing.

You're making this too hard on yourself. Go ahead and read the whole thread before posting.

Huffy wrote:But, Ghasghkull never intended to conquer Arm(3rd war) he wanted to put it in a state of eternal war, so he could take the rest of the sector with little to no effort(that's from the codex, so don't go on that I made it up)

Ork supporters always want to define a conflict so that there is no way that they can lose. Ask yourself this: Is Armageddon an Imperial world or an Ork world?

Ok are we agreed that there are trillions of Orks, we releasing like a thousand spores and each spore turn into a Ork and so on.

Manchu, the imperial super weapons?

Lol, the lasgun is a weak weapon, and wouldnt be able to take down enough Ork boys, before the guardsman dies.

Ok are we agreed that for every 1 guardsman atleast a thousand Orks?

The Imperium possesses many super weapons but the virus bomb is the most famous example. Other examples are cyclonic torpedoes and atmospheric incineration torpedoes. If these were only used on Ork inhabited worlds, i.e., those that are already lost to the Imperium, then the part of the Ork population that poses a significant threat (those already gathered together) would be drastically decreased without resulting in any loss to Imperial resources. It will never matter, no matter how many times you bring it up, how many Orks there are because all the Imperium must do is divide and conquer. The very nature of the Orks makes this easier than any other race, except perhaps Chaos. I suppose I must remind you again that the Old Ones did not create the Orks to rule themselves or even to exist forever--after all, the Old Ones would have had no interest in a huge, uncontrollable population of savages after the Necrontyr threat was destroyed--but only as a tool. This is why they show no ability to achieve more than the fleeting glory of a Waaagh!, when they can even manage that. Finally, the issue of spores is of no concern. Spores can easily be found and destroyed. That is why Armageddon was not swarming with Orks between the two wars.

Armageddon wasn't what now? It *did* have a massive indigenous population of Feral Orks that the Imperium could never manage to get rid of that joined with the new invasion. That's per the Armageddon book.

So I guess they were just at home knitting during the first war?

Manchu, I'm proud to award you the Grot Liberation Kommitte's prodigious Red Star of Hating Orks.

Wear it proudly, komrade!

i wonder how many more pages of each side refusing to believe they could somehow not be the winner this will go on for.


ORKS IS BEST

Orkeosaurus wrote:Manchu, I'm proud to award you the Grot Liberation Kommitte's prodigious Red Star of Hating Orks.

Wear it proudly, komrade!

Finally! Check out my profile page, Orkeosaurus.

Orks because they will Deep Strike millions of Hulk babies inside the Imperium's lines.

Manchu wrote:Finally! Check out my profile page, Orkeosaurus.

Nice!

You deserve it.

Everyone is receiving awards! i proudly display my cheese!

Xav wrote:

Ok are we agreed that for every 1 guardsman atleast a thousand Orks?

...um, no? Where the hell are you getting these statistics? There may be more orks than humans, but only by a small margin. Imperium DEFINITELY has more territory, and humans there are packed in like sardines. From what I've heard, orks don't go for the URBAN life so much.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@greenskin lynn: The BESTEST weapons are often irreplaceble, but they can manufacture basic cyclonic torpedoes and such well enough. (In a "hundred years religeous nut" kind of way")