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From the GW website

"TRADEMARK INFORMATION
Adeptus Astartes, Battlefleet Gothic, Black Flame, Black Library, the Black Library logo, BL Publishing, Blood Angels, Bloodquest, Blood Bowl, the Blood Bowl logo, The Blood Bowl Spike Device, Cadian, Catachan, the Chaos device, Cityfight, the Chaos logo, Citadel, Citadel Device..."

I'm guessing that one of those entries is the 'chaos star'. Which to the best of my (and Michael Moorcock's) knowledge is an invention of Michael Moorcock's.

Talk about being blue eyed.
The chaos compass first appeared and is contributed to Moorcocks work.
What it says on GWs policy page (not legal page since there is actually not much "legality" there) is what they want to be true.
Take it one step further and read on...
You will come across in GWs so called "legal" page this:
"eldar devices".
Those too are apparently owned by GW but then allow me to laugh since I hardly think GW owns any japanese kanji symbols nor do they own the egyptian mythological eye of horus symbol.

TBD wrote:
Nice conversation btw. I doubt anyone else is still reading these posts


I am and don't you fething dare get this locked down by making it personal.

Agree. Tone down the holyer-then-thou attitude please.

Fifty wrote:Sadly, it seems that GW would rather increase market share than increase market size. If they believe the market is already as large as it can get, that makes some sense, but in the long run I am still not sure it is the best idea.

I remember "the good old days" when even WD was a "hobby magazine", not a "GW magazine".

Those days are gone.

now the choice is whether you, the customer, support GW and FFG through these actions.

There are ways around all of this and all of the Dark Heresy books are readily available thru other sources.

I do not condone nor condemn any action.

Howlingmoon wrote:There are ways around all of this and all of the Dark Heresy books are readily available thru other sources.

I do not condone nor condemn any action.

I on the other hand do condemn piracy, actual or implied. Do what I do, buy used.

Pyriel wrote:Talk about being blue eyed.
The chaos compass first appeared and is contributed to Moorcocks work.
What it says on GWs policy page (not legal page since there is actually not much "legality" there) is what they want to be true.

I'm pretty sure that's what I said. Still, thanks for the insult pal.

I've been to the French website http://www.bbarena.net/ (blood bowl arena).

As mentioned earlier in this thread, they've been attacked, er, contacted by GW legal dept too.

I guess that's under the friendly advice offered by GW that they changed terms of use for their website:

Vous devez posséder un exemplaire du jeu de plateau pour utiliser BBA. Vous pouvez commander ce jeu directement sur le site officiel de Games Workshop.

You must own a copy of the boardgame to use BBA. You can order this game directly from Games Workshop's official website.

Actually, it's hard for me to write this message while laughing so hard.

I wonder if having bbarena on one's browser cache is enough for a search warrant? Friggin' hilarious!

Those days, it's probably easier to set up a pedophilia web site than a GW fan site. Less hassle.

Kotrin wrote:I've been to the French website http://www.bbarena.net/ (blood bowl arena).
...
You must own a copy of the boardgame to use BBA. You can order this game directly from Games Workshop's official website.

Actually, it's hard for me to write this message while laughing so hard.

( Blinks ) Errr..what? GW suggested/wanted/settled for that? What the feth? That does not make any sense. This is just like from a Kafka novel!

There are two possible interpretations of that statement:

1. Buy a copy of Blood Bowl or you are not allowed to read our site.

2. Buy a copy of Blood Bowl because our site is all about it and you won't understand anything without it.

Kilkrazy wrote:There are two possible interpretations of that statement:

1. Buy a copy of Blood Bowl or you are not allowed to read our site.

2. Buy a copy of Blood Bowl because our site is all about it and you won't understand anything without it.

From the original statement, it's clearly #1. You must - not should - own a copy of Blood Bowl to use the site. Now, does "use" means reading? Registering? Thinking about it? Do you need to send a proof of purchase before entering?

What bearing does it have to that disclaimer specifically and the whole debate generally that you can download the rules for free?

Fifty wrote:What bearing does it have to that disclaimer specifically and the whole debate generally that you can download the rules for free?

Yes, I had the exact same "Syntax Error"- moment.

Am I the only one who finds it completely ridiculous that if you website can't be distinguished as not gamesworkshop somehow it means your violating IP or Copyright? If the consumers of your product are so fething stupid that they don't know where they are, maybe your product just really isn't that good or unique.

Kilkrazy wrote:There are two possible interpretations of that statement:

1. Buy a copy of Blood Bowl or you are not allowed to read our site.

2. Buy a copy of Blood Bowl because our site is all about it and you won't understand anything without it.



From the original statement, it's clearly #1. You must - not should - own a copy of Blood Bowl to use the site. Now, does "use" means reading? Registering? Thinking about it? Do you need to send a proof of purchase before entering?

Heh, wonder on whom the burden of proof lies.
If it was in a UK court it would be on the poor viewer of the website but then again I cant think of any western country with more screwed up laws then UK.

Buzzsaw wrote:You want to hang your hat on the donation button? Again, the court in Bosley;
"[T]he appropriate inquiry is whether Kremer offers competing services to the public. Kremer is not Bosley’s competitor; he is their critic. His use of the Bosley mark is not in connection with a sale of goods or services — it is in connection with the expression of his opinion about Bosley’s goods and services." Italics in original.

Yes! I'm glad I wasn't off my rocker when I said something very similar a couple of days ago. My IP class info has withstood the course of time and countless beers.

Kotrin wrote:
Those days, it's probably easier to set up a pedophilia web site than a GW fan site. Less hassle.

First, I want to say thanks to the IP discussion from those educated on the subject, good stuff to read and I'm being sincere when I say that. Thanks.

Second, that quote is farking hilarious Kotrin. Good stuff.

Apparently portmaw.com got one too, which is the main Battlefleet Gothic talk site (like TBB / TFF).

So this is definitely not limited to simply Blood Bowl or "Thruddball" (instead of Thruddbowl) as GW would like a standing tournament in the UK to change its name to as it "sounds too much like Bloodbowl".

This topic gets more and more insane the longer it goes on.

Spacemanvic wrote:It's crap like this that makes people develop a great dislike of GW.

While I'm far from being a legal expert, I couldn't agree more. It's the corporate entity that GW has become that has continually ticked off their fanbase over the years. I remember playing 2ed Ed. 40K(even rogue trade with a few friends who still had the rules), and it was all about having fun. They put out a game for people to just sit down,have fun and forget about the real world for awhile. Now all they care about is money. I understand that they are a business, and that the primary reason for running a business is to make money... but they have alienated a lot of the people who have made them(GW) who and what they are.

Spacemanvic wrote: so GW can suck it.

Best. Post. Ever. Lol.

Lord Alaric wrote:I remember playing 2ed Ed. 40K(even rogue trade with a few friends who still had the rules), and it was all about having fun. They put out a game for people to just sit down,have fun and forget about the real world for awhile. Now all they care about is money.

You might be surprised by how little GW's corporate attitude has actually changed since 2nd edition. A lot of the exact same shenanigans were going on back then... I remember talking to more than one store owner back in 2nd edition who had complaints with GW reps coming into their stores and demanding that other companies' miniatures be moved further away from the 40K and WHFB displays (most conspicuously Warzone, although Harlequin's Fantasy range ruffled some feathers as well). Or GW refusing to send them stock unless they complied with GW's display and pricing demands. GW's strong-arm tactics with setting up stores, and hard-sell retail attitude were also well and truly entrenched by then.

The only real difference I can see these days is the internet. Potentially-IP-infringing websites just weren't a problem in the early 90's. Nor were there countless fan-made forums dedicated to discussing the hobby, just ready to jump up and down and make a world-wide fuss every time someone at GW did something stupid.

So it's not that GW are acting any worse these days than they did back in the 'good old days'... it's simply that these days, more people hear about it.

Ok, so given that this doesn't appear to be just one site being attacked by GW, wouldn't it be an idea for the owners of such sites, and sites such as DakkaDakka, BolterandChainsword, Warseer, et al to get together and actually present a united front to them?

Given what's going on where does it end? As silly as it sounds you could potentially have a situation that a GW fan site can't have any GW related artwork to brighten it up, or be used as links, no use of IP/Copyright terms, unless used in a vague way, no reference to anything else that may look like a GW product and no donations to help run the site.

So basically you end up with a website made up of GW innuendo? That would be interesting! Nothing is 100% GW related... but it could be, nudge, nudge, wink, wink

As I've said before, it is time for people to take back their hobby. It's time for people to actually say to GW if you don't start acting nice you can go shove it. BTW, I'm not anti GW, they are abusiness and they are there to make money. However their history isn't like Mattel or Hasbro. GW was a company set up by people who had a passion for gaming and wanted to pass that passion on, which they did for years. They now appear to want to behave like a mainstream toy company, however I don't think they realise how risky that is. They forget that they aren't mainstream and as much as they go after the little ones, it's the veterans who actually keep them going. If, and it's a big IF, the GW veteran gaming community actually got together, became a voice and stood their ground, I don't think it would take long for GW (or the major share holders) to stop and listen.

If all the members of the main forums came together under an umbrella group and made a unified protest (lay off buying for a month) I thinked they'd get the message.

especially if that month was December...

insaniak wrote:

Lord Alaric wrote:I remember playing 2ed Ed. 40K(even rogue trade with a few friends who still had the rules), and it was all about having fun. They put out a game for people to just sit down,have fun and forget about the real world for awhile. Now all they care about is money.

You might be surprised by how little GW's corporate attitude has actually changed since 2nd edition. A lot of the exact same shenanigans were going on back then... I remember talking to more than one store owner back in 2nd edition who had complaints with GW reps coming into their stores and demanding that other companies' miniatures be moved further away from the 40K and WHFB displays (most conspicuously Warzone, although Harlequin's Fantasy range ruffled some feathers as well). Or GW refusing to send them stock unless they complied with GW's display and pricing demands. GW's strong-arm tactics with setting up stores, and hard-sell retail attitude were also well and truly entrenched by then.

The only real difference I can see these days is the internet. Potentially-IP-infringing websites just weren't a problem in the early 90's. Nor were there countless fan-made forums dedicated to discussing the hobby, just ready to jump up and down and make a world-wide fuss every time someone at GW did something stupid.

So it's not that GW are acting any worse these days than they did back in the 'good old days'... it's simply that these days, more people hear about it.

Because more people hear about it, there is the potential for more harm or benefit to GW.

In this case I think they are going to reap harm, because of the ungracious way they have addressed an important Trademark issue and tried to suppress legitimate free speech and competition at the same time.

It's only because of fan sites like Talkbb.com that Blood Bowl has kept going as a vibrant, though niche game, since GW stopped supporting specialist games several years ago.

Kilkrazy - no argument from me there. I was merely responding to the idea that this corporate mentality was something new.

7 pages for the closure of one website? Hardly crushing, is it?

hammerofulric wrote:7 pages for the closure of one website? Hardly crushing, is it?

There's actually half a dozen of them, who knows how many will close. You're right seven pages is a lot to follow, I'll start a new thread in Dakka Discussions.

Wolfstan wrote:What about DakkaDakka members clubbing together and funding a class lawsuit against GW over the use of Michael Moorcock's chaos sign. I know MM is ok about it generally, but wouldn't it be nice to hit them with a lawsuit and see them squeal!!!

Don't be stupid.

New thread: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/264704.page

Time I think to sit down tonight and take down the "Necrontyr" Visual Pinball table I have on my website before I get a C&D... probaby be back in a week or two, renamed "Space Tomb" or something..

Lanceradvanced wrote:Time I think to sit down tonight and take down the "Necrontyr" Visual Pinball table I have on my website before I get a C&D... probaby be back in a week or two, renamed "Space Tomb" or something..

Why don't you call it Cyber-Terminator-man.

*sigh* Seriously GW, going after Port Maw and Dark Reign too?? I hope someone in GW legal gets fired over all of this, it is astonishingly stupid to go after your fans like this.

I hope those owners realize that a C&D is in no way legal, and a company can put anything they want in it, regardless if its law or just stuff they are making up. Someone should point those owners to this thread.