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Lennysmash wrote:They were also talking about the allies system allowing Inquisitors access to SM and IG squads to represent them seconding troops for missions.

Dackota wrote:Sorry, I edited my post, IM hoping for a BT codex, GW didnt intimate there was one, they just suggested DH/WH would be out sometime around summer.

0% chance, both of you. Your other suggestions do not match up with what else we know either, so I would not recommend you pay your sources much heed.

gorgon wrote:I hope we get three xenos in row, but going by GW's history...

Exactly 50% of the books are Imperial, and half of them are now updated to Fifth Edition (counting Blood Angels). Almost half the Xenos are up to fifth edition. Sorry, I do not think there will be much deviation from the normal pattern.

Orks-Daemons-Smurfs-Guard-Wolves-Nids-Bloods.
Xenos-Xenox-Imperial-Imperial-Imperial-Xenox-Imperial.

I'd really like to see the Frateris Militia from 2nd ed SoB to be reintroduced. I like crafting models that looks a bit more civilian, and it would be nice to have a plastic source beside WHFB empire free company.

The inq codex will probably give me lots of excuses and inspiration to conversions. That, and getting rid of the silly DS-blocker standard unit, is the main reason that I hope for the inq codex.

Ostrakon wrote:How about: joint =][= release, Deathwatch are the new "black marines" and we get rid of BT entirely so a freaking non-Imperial race can get a codex.

How about not, as the BT have the most awesome bitz assortment of all the SMs.
___

lord_blackfang wrote:I'm not very thrilled at the prospect of having 5 out of the first 6 Codexes this edition be Imperials. Here's hoping for DE or Necrons or even Tau.

I count things as Orks, Daemons, & Nids, for 3 non-Imperial books.

With all of the rumblings about BT I've heard on these and other forums, I would definitely hesitate to say 0% chance for 2010. I would say very unlikely, but not 0%. Include 2011 and I would say pretty good chance for BT.

To Elric of Grans; would you be able to clarify what you mean when you say a 0% chance given what we know. I'm not sure I understand what contradicts these as possibilities. Ta very much.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Ostrakon wrote:How about: joint =][= release, Deathwatch are the new "black marines" and we get rid of BT entirely so a freaking non-Imperial race can get a codex.

How about not, as the BT have the most awesome bitz assortment of all the SMs.
___

lord_blackfang wrote:I'm not very thrilled at the prospect of having 5 out of the first 6 Codexes this edition be Imperials. Here's hoping for DE or Necrons or even Tau.

I count things as Orks, Daemons, & Nids, for 3 non-Imperial books.

I was being sarcastic. Also:

Even though Orks and Daemons are 5E-friendly, weren't they released under 4E?

I just like the BT bitz.

If the Codex cover matches the 5E rulebook, it's a 5E rulebook.

Elric of Grans wrote:
Exactly 50% of the books are Imperial, and half of them are now updated to Fifth Edition (counting Blood Angels). Almost half the Xenos are up to fifth edition. Sorry, I do not think there will be much deviation from the normal pattern.

Orks-Daemons-Smurfs-Guard-Wolves-Nids-Bloods.
Xenos-Xenox-Imperial-Imperial-Imperial-Xenox-Imperial.

Hopefully,the new release schedule will be something along the lines of...

Inquisition
Dark Eldar
Necrons
Dark Angels
Tau
Black Templars
Chaos Marines
Eldar

Possibly swap Tau and BT and DE and 'crons.

JohnHwangDD wrote:I just like the BT bitz.

If the Codex cover matches the 5E rulebook, it's a 5E rulebook.

I don't blame you, those bitz are incredible. Can't wait to see the BA conversion kits

apwill4765 wrote:With all of the rumblings about BT I've heard on these and other forums, I would definitely hesitate to say 0% chance for 2010. I would say very unlikely, but not 0%. Include 2011 and I would say pretty good chance for BT.

I never said they were. The quote said that they were hoping for Black Templars with no timeframe (no need to answer wish listing) and stated that Inquisition was mid-year. There is a 0% chance we will see Inquisition mid-year. I think Black Templar are very likely for 2011.

Lennysmash,

Lennysmash wrote:What I gathered from the guys I talked to was that SoB were going to remain as part of a larger Inquistion Codex. Only later were they going to divide the Inquistion back into DH and WH. They were also talking about the allies system allowing Inquisitors access to SM and IG squads to represent them seconding troops for missions. Again all conjecture and I apologise if I misunderstood them.

Jervis stated at three separate Games Days that they will not combine Sisters into a larger Inquisition Codex. This has also been shot down a dozen times over by those in the know. Allies are guaranteed to be out.

Lennysmash wrote:They were hinting at a possible release for the Inquisition codex in the near future along with multipart SoB squads, Deathwatch squads and possibly Plastic Grey Knights as well. Obviously just conjecture atm but if anyone has heard similar would love to see what they've heard.

There are hints that Grey Knights/Inquisition may be in the not-too-distant future, yes, but not Sisters. We know that Sisters plastics are only in the early design phase and are not expected until late next year, at the earliest.

Whatever1, I would suggest Black Templars are going to be well before Dark Angels. The rest is as good as anyone else's guess. Even Games Wokshop HQ does not know the release schedule more than 6 months ahead, so anything could happen really.

So there is no suggestion that BT or DA are comming out? What most are saying is just wish listing?

well I am biased as I have a necron army rotting away on a shelf, but They really need a new book. Not just for power level balancing but the rules don't even really make sense with the new ruleset. I know what the general view on them being swept is, but it seems to dance around the rules a bit either way you play it.

Noobtodagame wrote:So there is no suggestion that BT or DA are comming out?

Are they coming out in the next 20 years? Sure. Are they next? I would not bet on it. We know Black Templars are in development, but we also know they are not next --- it was stated earlier in this thread. There has never once been any suggestion that Dark Angels are even in early development. Considering we knew about Ultramarines, Space Wolves, Blood Angels and Black Templars long before, I find it highly doubtful that they are that close to complete and no one has even noticed they are being worked upon.

The armies we know are in development (ignoring Blood Angels) are Black Templars, Grey Knights, Sisters, Dark Eldar and Necrons. If Black Templar are not next, Sisters are a long way off, and neither Dark Eldar nor Necron are likely for this year, I think I know where I would put my money. Could I be wrong? Sure, but I would rather take the safe bet than put my money on the horse that was already put down.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Ostrakon wrote:How about: joint =][= release, Deathwatch are the new "black marines" and we get rid of BT entirely so a freaking non-Imperial race can get a codex.

How about not, as the BT have the most awesome bitz assortment of all the SMs.

My Dark Angels beg to differ!

Sorry, KK, but flower-print dresses aren't awesome.

But they're so pretty! My Dark Angels love to wear their pretty dresses and their silky underthings and play with dollies and have tea parties!

Almost there...

Alpharius wrote:Almost there...

Where?

Thread lock I would guess.

Anyhooo....

I wonder why GW doesn't say anything about Necron update, and what they will add when they get around to it. Rules-wise, the fixes are pretty obvious, but the adds are hard to predict. Certainly, rule-wise, Necrons are very much in need of a new book to fit the 40k 5E+ ethos.

Well, before this gets locked I'd like to say that i got some very strong hints from the local GW that there are plastic SoB and GK coming out this year; chances are that this will be a tie in with an Inquisition codex.

Apparently the 'greens' of the plastic SoB are on the net somewhere; not been able to find them yet though :(

John, you know perfectly well that Games Workshop denies ever working on anything. They just sit around twiddling their thumbs until *pop* an army release is ready and THEN they tell people that they did it. Just between you and I, the truth is that the models are made by elves; the rules by monkeys on typewriters. Somewhat more seriously, we know they are in the works, but last we heard they were looking likely to be out after Dark Eldar.

I have not heard of photos of Sisters greens; I probably would have (I troll the news and rumours of darn near every Warhammer site).

@Elric of Grans: Thanks for the clarification.

@Elric: Actually, it seems the reverse: GW is always working on stuff (e.g. DE), but releases don't get announced until magically they're ready.

JohnHwangDD wrote:Anyhooo....

I wonder why GW doesn't say anything about Necron update, and what they will add when they get around to it. Rules-wise, the fixes are pretty obvious, but the adds are hard to predict. Certainly, rule-wise, Necrons are very much in need of a new book to fit the 40k 5E+ ethos.

Are the fixes really that obvious?

The problem (and Necrons aren't the only ones who have it) is the vast discrepancy between rules and fluff. In the fluff gauss weapons are capable of instakilling pretty much anything on a direct hit, and gauss cannons can apparently double-penetrate LR armor. The fluff portrays Flayed Ones as deadly and quick, and Pariahs as unstoppable juggernauts that drive men completely mad.

If we wanted to represent them the way the fluff hypes them sometimes, they'd be like 120 points/model.

I like playing them because of aesthetics, and because they feel unique to me via gauss weaponry and WBB. You play them not usually by taking specialized units but instead using general units wisely - the polar opposite of armies like Eldar or IG. If they cop out by making things like "gauss missile launcher" wargear for troops, it'd ruin it.

So how would they handle vehicles? Keeping autoglances seems reasonable, but would they count all vehicles as open-topped? Or should their weaponry count as AP 1 on a six? Right now they have a huge problem dealing with terminators, the fluff suggests that gauss weapons should be able to handle Tactical Dreadnought armor without a problem.

I think the problem with crons, ruleswise, is making sure they're playable without making them prohibitively expensive. Right now a lot of their stuff costs too much, and they're missing things like reliable anti-armor and ways to deal with dedicated CC units (getting assaulted out of Storm Harbingers is going to be impossible for me to deal with). And even with their special rules and high minimum squad numbers, they're not powerful enough to justify Phase Out as an army-wide drawback.

I want to see them done right. They should have a balanced codex where there are no or few useless models, like Tyranids or SM. And I don't envy the person who has that task (Matt Ward, I believe).

You being a mono-Necron player, I have to take your words with a grain of salt.

If my Eldar, SM, and Inquisition forces were as Fluff, then your Necrons would fold like paper.

I think the basics of Necrons will hold (FNP replace WBB), and that Phase out will likely go away, but I'd expect them to suck worse in HtH, perhaps WS2 BS4 S4 T4W1 I2 A1 Ld10 Sv3+ FNP Rending.

I think Necrons will get a bunch of new models, likely Jetbike MCs & Skimmer Dreads and more Destroyer options, with a mini-Monolith Pod marker.

JohnHwangDD wrote:You being a mono-Necron player, I have to take your words with a grain of salt.

If my Eldar, SM, and Inquisition forces were as Fluff, then your Necrons would fold like paper.

I think the basics of Necrons will hold (FNP replace WBB), and that Phase out will likely go away, but I'd expect them to suck worse in HtH, perhaps WS2 BS4 S4 T4W1 I2 A1 Ld10 Sv3+ FNP Rending.

I think Necrons will get a bunch of new models, likely Jetbike MCs & Skimmer Dreads and more Destroyer options, with a mini-Monolith Pod marker.

True, I haven't read anything Necrons v. Marines, but they wrecked the crap out of Orks, IG, and SoB in the Cain series. Wasn't even close. And going by the current codex itself, Necrons were kicking the living crap out of BT.
Sorry if I'm sounding like a Necron fanboy, it's just that I've never really seen Necrons lose anywhere but on the table.

I would LOVE for there to be some kind of 'cron walker or skimmer dread. Or a transport. Too bad they can't bring out the Void Dragon without making massive changes to existing fluff.

I think one of the big things they're missing is a designated heavy "infantry unit", so I'd love to see them get a Dread or Obliterator equivalent.

And I'm worried about them being completely terrible in CC. (I mean, they already are already) but it seems to me that Tau is the designated shooty army that completely blows in melee. Fluff depicts crons as being decent in melee, but only if for some reason their enemies haven't been completely gauss-flayed beforehand. Their current statline is fine, (with rending added to gauss weapons, rending melee if you pay for disruption fields perhaps?) but with stubborn or fearless so they can't get outright swept so easily. It's just weird that these supposed immortal necron warriors can get suddenly wiped out because one of them got scratched by a chainsword and ran.

I dunno if that would be balanced or not though. Like I said, I don't want to be playing a supercheese army.

JohnHwangDD wrote:You being a mono-Necron player, I have to take your words with a grain of salt.

If my Eldar, SM, and Inquisition forces were as Fluff, then your Necrons would fold like paper.

I think the basics of Necrons will hold (FNP replace WBB), and that Phase out will likely go away, but I'd expect them to suck worse in HtH, perhaps WS2 BS4 S4 T4W1 I2 A1 Ld10 Sv3+ FNP Rending.

I think Necrons will get a bunch of new models, likely Jetbike MCs & Skimmer Dreads and more Destroyer options, with a mini-Monolith Pod marker.

One thing comes to mind, though. I've played since 2nd ed. and I've never seen a major stat revamp (at least not for basic troops) from one edition codex to the next. Heard some stuff got changed from Rouge Trader to 2nd ed., but I think that was it. Though lower WS and I combined with mebbe T5, FNP and fearless would make sense fluffwise... Necron warriors aren't vicious cc monsters, they just take an extreme amount of punishment before going down.

BrassScorpion wrote:

the trend has been a codex dissapears or is listed as no longer available on their website and a month or so later they announce the release coming.

In this case it will be a bit more than a couple months, but the logic is otherwise sound.

So BA, something else, Inquisition, in that order? >.>

Kveldulv wrote:
One thing comes to mind, though. I've played since 2nd ed. and I've never seen a major stat revamp (at least not for basic troops) from one edition codex to the next. Heard some stuff got changed from Rouge Trader to 2nd ed., but I think that was it. Though lower WS and I combined with mebbe T5, FNP and fearless would make sense fluffwise... Necron warriors aren't vicious cc monsters, they just take an extreme amount of punishment before going down.

A lot of basic unit stats changed from RT (SPM with T3 is my favourite example) to 2nd (where models still had a movement stat and armor saves worked as in whfb) and then again to 3rd ed (where you really had to use basic units to good effect if you wanted to win). And then some stats changed when each army got it's first proper codex in 3rd ed. But since then the power increase has primarily been done by adding new "special" units, keeping basic troops at their old statline but with a lower cost and some new special rules. All the while making old special rules less powerful by issuing new BRBs (I still remember the eldar howl of whine when their precious fleet move was made commonly available). I think grots got BS3 with the 5ed codex (but they are not really basic troops), Tyranid warriors have gained +1W and -1S since 3rd ed. I'm sure some other things have changed but I can't think of any. In the light of this, I think the necrons will stay pretty much the same stats. They will gain a bunch of special rules, among wich will be a bunch of low points/high $$$ vehicles/big models, maybe even transports (!). They will gain more strange deployment options and some must-have units that are completely new.