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I know it's been mentioned already, but my favourite is a Wave Serpent loaded full of Fire Dragons.

Despite the fact that last game I used them, they rocked up next to a Land Speeder and failed to destroy it.... Normally, though, 99 times out of a hundred, they will kill whatever tank I point them at =)

..... w.....wh..... okay you lost me. A land speeder, av 12 FRONT, took 10 fire dragons meaning they needed a 4 on 2d6 to glance, and they did nothing? Did you roll nothing but 2's and 1's

Fail

Speeders are 10 all around.


your FDs would have had to all roll double 1s to glance.

People have been WAY over analyzing the manticore vs. broadside debate. I don't know how much a manticore costs, but it seems to be that they have a minimum range. Is this true? Because if it is, then broadsides all the way. No deepstriking blood angels LR full of thunder hammers is going to get those boys(/girl pilots)! Just saying, 1 heavy bolter sponson doesn't do squat (oops, can't say that word with gw aroud) against deepstriking anti tank squads.

willydstyle wrote:Fire dragons. Up to 10 of them, they all have melta guns for 16 points a piece (unlike 30 for those sternguard), they can have tank hunters, and they have melta bombs just in case their shooting didn't do enough for you.

If that's not enough... A farseer guiding unit will improve the accuracy.

micahaphone wrote:People have been WAY over analyzing the manticore vs. broadside debate. I don't know how much a manticore costs, but it seems to be that they have a minimum range. Is this true? Because if it is, then broadsides all the way. No deepstriking blood angels LR full of thunder hammers is going to get those boys(/girl pilots)! Just saying, 1 heavy bolter sponson doesn't do squat (oops, can't say that word with gw aroud) against deepstriking anti tank squads.

You can get around minimum range by firing direct.

Ah. That makes a lot more sense. What is the minimum range?

24". Ordnance Barrage weapons can choose to fire as normal Ordnance weapons unless specified otherwise (as griffins and colossi do in the Guard codex.

I agree broadsides are better than manticores, but the dude on page 6 was purposely dissing the manticore and glorifying the broadside, so I smacked him one

While the railgun is very effective at jacking a single target a manticore can rip a small cluster of vehicles pretty good.

tgf wrote:While the railgun is very effective at jacking a single target a manticore can rip a small cluster of vehicles pretty good.

Please either explain how this is remotely possible, or re-read the rules for blast weapons.

Manticores use large blast templates.

If you're firing three missiles, you'd have to have one of EACH score direct hits on a squadron of three vehicles with one aimed at each, or scatter onto three vehicles, which is extremely unlikely.

If they scatter pretty much at all, they're going to inflict a S5 hit against the vehicle, since only the center of the blast marker inflicts a S10 hit.

And even against rear armor (which a quarter of the time, it could hit) a S5 hit is unreliable at best.

Str 5 with roll-two-pick-the-best has about a 30% chance to pen rear armor 10, with another 30% chance to glance. If two rhinos (for example) are parked one in front of the other, you place your shot on the front of the rear tank. That way any hits on the rear tank will be a full strength hit, with another half-strength hit on the AV 10 of the tank in front.

gendoikari87 wrote:You're really still trying to bend reality to make an anti-infantry killing machine into a tank hunter?

A manticore is not strictly an infantry-killing machine. If all I wanted to do is kill infantry, I would take a pair of Griffons instead, who share the same AP, also wound on 2+, are way more accurate, and give me two hull heavy flamers rather than one. For 10 points less.

The fact of the matter is that the Manticore can not compete with Broadsides as AT, They don't even compete well with other guard choices such as vanquishers, Melta vets or even vendettas, which are at best on par with the broadsides.

While the Manticore cannot match the AT-prowess of a fully kitted out Broadside unit, its high strength, ordnance status, and possible multiple shots make it quite an adept tank hunter. Whether firing directly or indirectly, you roll a hit 1/3 of the time. With an average of 2 shots, you have 58% chance of landing a S10 ordnance hit on anything you target. Then add various beneficial scatters, and you actually have a very accurate and powerful AT weapon at your disposal. Certainly far more impressive than the vanquisher, which misses half the time, is a glorified missile launcher against waveserpents and monoliths, and is actually less likely to penetrate most vehicles except landraiders, against which it averages half as many hits. What's next, are you going to suggest Pask? Please, let's not resort to such lowbrow humor.

As someone who uses melta vets, vendettas, and manticores extensively, I see all three of these choices as key components of my AT arsenal. Manticores and Vendettas are equal in their usefulness. Vendettas take out light and medium vehicles, while the manticores tackle the landraiders and monoliths. As secondary roles, Vendettas take out monstrous creatures, while manticores bombard infantry. Melta veterans are of course the bomb, but since I never use more than two units, I hesitate throwing away a mobile (relative to platoons) scoring unit unless it's really worth it. My vets are more opportunists, and are frequently packing a demo charge and maybe even a flamer. Like the Vendettas and manticores, they assume roles on an as-needed basis, whether blowing the crap out of vehicles with meltaguns/bombs, killing swathes of infantry (with the chimera's help, of course), or simply bunkering down on an objective.

at the end of the day, the broadside can ignore obscured saves, has the same str as the manticore, but is AP 1 and is much more accurate. (being on average BS 4 twinlinked).

Yes, at the end of the day, the broadsides are the best AT unit in the game.

and at the end of the day, if you're using a manticore as anti tank, something is amiss..

No, at the end of the day you're playing 5th edition Tankhammer, where before you can get at the infantry you have to chew through a wall of steel, and thus far the manticore has shown itself quite adept in both roles.

TL;DR : quit dissing the manticore, or I'll make you eat your pets!

SaintHazard wrote:

tgf wrote:While the railgun is very effective at jacking a single target a manticore can rip a small cluster of vehicles pretty good.

Please either explain how this is remotely possible, or re-read the rules for blast weapons.

Manticores use large blast templates.

Its S10, you get best of 2d6. 2/3's of the time it scatters an average of 4 inches. a vehicle cluster will usually allow you to stay full strength with in the average scatter. You shoot d3 missiles so on successive hits you can flip the template in your desired direction or just keep it where it is for another hit. It also gives you s5 hits on non-hole models which is often times enough to glance or pen troop transports. Its not a bad weapon for a cluster of vehicles. I am not sure how anyone can mathematically say a S10 best of 2d6 penetration weapon is not a good vehicle killer. As others have pointed out, it serves double duty against troops as well. Seems to be a universally useful item in the game. In the context of this thread, there is nothing wrong with it as a tank hunter.

Darklances

*the galaxy implodes*

bucketwalrus wrote:Darklances

*the galaxy implodes*

Not a unit.

If you said "tri-darklance ravager" you might be on to something. However, most good DE generals will take disintegrators on their Ravagers, because they get plenty of lances out of the rest of the list, so you have a great anti-tank unit that just doesn't fit into the list.

Any unit armed with a darklance is immediately deemed a powerful anti-tank unit. ravagers are indeed a powerful example. but the ravager is ALSO a very weak vehicle. It'll most likely pop one tank before being killed by anti-light tank weaponry, unless you roll like a god and dominate the game with it.

Ive seen a single unit of warriors with 1 dark lance kill 3 tanks before being mashed by some assault.

broads sides, like everyone has said. Are indeed powerful anti-tank. but from personal experience. the most they've ever done to me is score a single immobalised on a rhino (which i fixed next turn! lol)
mostly bad rolls on his part, but it all comes down to dice rolls in the end.

Jaon wrote:I agree broadsides are better than manticores, but the dude on page 6 was purposely dissing the manticore and glorifying the broadside, so I smacked him one

That's because the Manticore is the king of anti-infantry/ MC weapon, Using it as AT is a travesty.

gendoikari87 wrote:..... w.....wh..... okay you lost me. A land speeder, av 12 FRONT, took 10 fire dragons meaning they needed a 4 on 2d6 to glance, and they did nothing? Did you roll nothing but 2's and 1's

It was actually 5 Fire Dragons, but pretty much, yeah. Not my finest moment of dice-rolling =P

Tau has some great stuff. A squad of broadsides can land down 3 S10 AP1 shots at BS3 twin linked (equal to BS 4,5) from 72" away.


Otherwise, a squad of vanquishers can do so much harm. Three melta rounds up to a long range.

Suicidal Cheez wrote:Three melta rounds up to a long range.

Uh.

How does that work, exactly?

Explain it to us.

We'll wait while you go get your IG codex.

SaintHazard wrote:

Suicidal Cheez wrote:Three melta rounds up to a long range.

Uh.

How does that work, exactly?

Explain it to us.

We'll wait while you go get your IG codex.

It's not a melta shot, the vanquisher just rolls 2d6 for armor penetration. Just LIKE melta within half range. no AP 1 though. which sucks ... SOOOOOO much.

gendoikari87 wrote:It's not a melta shot, the vanquisher just rolls 2d6 for armor penetration. Just LIKE melta within half range. no AP 1 though. which sucks ... SOOOOOO much.

Exactly.

Don't confuse terms. Melta weapons work differently from Vanquishers, they only happen to share that single characteristic.

Actually the best AV weapon in the game is on the Goff Claw Stompa. Hits auto-pen and its +2 on the VDR table. 3+ to destory.

The worst possible result is a weapon destoryed.

willydstyle wrote:

Jaon wrote:These are all nasty and 100% lethal, but Broadsides are the clear winner because none of the other ones can kill monoliths!

I base my anti-tank prowess more on being able to kill rhinos consistently than monoliths, because frankly you don't often *need* to kill monoliths when playing against Necrons, and on a day-to-day basis you're way more likely to fight a rhino than a monolith, or even a land raider.

Another unit that has not been mentioned: Medusas with bastion breacher shells.

Damn You took mine.

best AT weapon.

Zoanthrope Warp Lance.

Range 24"(IIRC)

Str10

AP1

Lance

But mine has 3 small blasts at 48", S10, 2D6 Armour Pen AND AP1.

SaintHazard wrote:

kronk wrote:For my Black Templar, I've found that a 5 man terminator squad with 2 assault cannons and the tank hunters veteran ability does pretty quick work. Toss in a couple of chainfists, and they're even better.

Ouch.

8 S6 rending shots.

That's a beast.

You could take down Land Raiders with that sucker.

S7, technically. They have tank hunter!

Oh, Veteran Skills, will we ever see you again?

(sadly, no)

Best anti-tank?
Broadsides, for reasons already stated in this thread.

Cheapest anti-tank?
Suicide Crisis Suit: Twin-linked Fusion Blaster, Target Array (53 points)

Most hilarious anti-tank?
20 Kroot + 12 Kroot Hounds outflanking and assaulting a Leman Russ hunkered down in cover.


Hands down it's 20 Kroot + 12 Kroot Hounds outflanking and assaulting a Leman Russ hunkered down in cover.

orchewer wrote:Most hilarious anti-tank?
20 Kroot + 12 Kroot Hounds outflanking and assaulting a Leman Russ hunkered down in cover.


Hands down it's 20 Kroot + 12 Kroot Hounds outflanking and assaulting a Leman Russ hunkered down in cover.

Disagree.

Most hilarious: a single Tyranid spore mine drifting randomly into the rear armor of a Leman Russ.

Jaon wrote:These are all nasty and 100% lethal, but Broadsides are the clear winner because none of the other ones can kill monoliths!

I once saw a monolith get shot by a long Guardsmen with a Meltagun at 12" and get blown up.

The dude basically shot it over his shoulder as he was running away..