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Melissia wrote:Melta bombs are S8+2d6.
Kraks are S6+1d6.
Frags are S4+1d6.

At least if I'm reading this right.

Yep, just checked the rulebook. I was wrong on that one.

Oh... I thought you were just being sarcastic

Can't believe no one has said it yet: Ork Wierdboy. Zzap is 36" Melta that auto hits; sure it is only AP 2 but it is also Str 10.

That you also don't get to use exactly when you want to.

There is no anti-tank in the game that you can use exactly when you want to. There's always a risk of failure somewhere.

30 death company
30 thunder hammers
30 storm shields.

JOKING!

Lysander and 5 th ss termies in a land raider. deploy 12" away, move 6", shoot lascannons and multi-melta, disembark, assault 6". 15 S8 th attacks, 5 S10 th attacks addind +1 on damge charts: ouch.



OR a unit i field just to see how much it kills before dying:

5x vanguard veterans
4x power fists
5x meltabombs
5x jump packs
5x storm shields
thunder hammer. deep strike, assault straight away with the herioc intervention special rule- 5 meltabombs, 12 S8 attacks, and 4 S8 thunder hammer attacks. ouch again.

Even with limited ammunition a Manticore with its D3 s10 large blasts a turn stands a good chance of taking down a lot of armour over the course of a game. Amazing for its points.

I like Manticores, but they are unreliable at best, and stand a good chance of not doing anything over the course of a game.

For every time you get 3 shots, and they all hit, there will be a time that you get one shot and it scatters. Or even if you get 3 shots there's no guarantee that *any* of them will hit. One of the nice things about being str 10 ordnance is that off-center shots can still cause damage to rhinos, predators, chimeras, etc. on the side or back.

I have to say manticores have killed the crap out of my monoliths. Every time I have played one I lose at least one lith. He also fields two other s10 blasties... but its always the manticore thats got the killing shots. And if you would like to see his amazing manticore and medusas (edited after I found his blog) they're here. http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/289979.page

Hits from Medusa bastion breacher shells are more deadly than Zooanthrope warp lances. The tricky part is that it's a blast weapon so its accuracy depends on the size of the target. Walkers are harder to hit than Land Raiders.

I've had a lot of success with Pask in a Vanquisher as long as you don't base your AT entirely on that.

BS4, whatever you hit you will almost certainly penetrate and if thats not enough you get +1 to armour penetration if you stand still.

The old Vanquisher was still better though.

Best AT unit in the game though? Shadowsword.

Guys, Eldar fire dragons in a waveserpent. Argument over!

So, an intersting thing that every unit mention so far can do..

Is take down a single tank or armored vehicle.. in one turn. However, there is an anti-armor unit in the game can take down two vehicles in one turn


XV-88 Broadside Team, Team Lead with a hard-wired target lock and a targetting array. With 2 other suits with Targeting Arrays.

With S10, AP1, and a 72" range. This unit can take down two of ANY armored vehicle in the game in one turn.

Every other unit listed can only take out one vehicle per turn.

Simple math wins.

Well, I field Melta Vets in an Outlfanking Vendetta.

If the Vendetta doesn't score a kill on the side armour with three TL lascannons then the Vets will hopefully finish it off. It it does kill whatever it's shooting at that leaves the Vets free to shoot anything else in range. Hopefully something expensive.

Just Dave wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:best AT weapon.

Zoanthrope Warp Lance.

Range 24"(IIRC)

Str10

AP1

Lance


why, yes, I am penetrating your LR on 3+

I'm pleased you said WEAPON, rather than unit! As it's also the most unreliable with a spore pod, short-ish range, nullification and perils!


Best Unit? Likely Broadsides, although MM land speeders and fire dragons shouldn't be underestimated, however Broadsides have the range that is otherwise laking in most melta-weapons...

MM land speeders and bikes when fleeting have the 3++ jinking save. Fire dragons get decimated by the monoliths. Plus the broadsides are useless in CC and need proper backup, As part of a whole force, they'd take out a monolith for sure, but on their lonesome... you'd have only a few turns then boom.

Edit: Melta veterans actually ended up taking 5/6 structure points off a plague tower in a recent apocalypse game before getting steamrolled by the chaos terminators behind them.

10 man squad of Dark Eldar ( two with D. lances and two with blaster) 110 points that 36 in range stationary and 12 in range/ plus six for movement for 18 inches
10 man squad of Dark Eldar ( two with D lances) 100 points
3 man reaver jet bike squad armed with two blasters 95 points ( turbo boost get invul) and moves up too 24 inches

I think are great anti tank units( except for Monilith) then i have to use the talos...

1 talos 100 points( If it makes it too a tank)

Vanguard27 wrote:However, there is an anti-armor unit in the game can take down two vehicles in one turn

If that's the game you want to play, then I'll see your 2, and raise you one. A manticore rolling a 5 or 6 on the number of attacks it gets can put down three vehicles in one hit.

As for it being a case of "simple math", well, if you did said math, you'd find that other things do more damage to tanks over two turns, regardless of the fact that they kill one at a time, instead of trying to kill 2 at once.

Ailaros wrote:

Vanguard27 wrote:However, there is an anti-armor unit in the game can take down two vehicles in one turn

If that's the game you want to play, then I'll see your 2, and raise you one. A manticore rolling a 5 or 6 on the number of attacks it gets can put down three vehicles in one hit.

As for it being a case of "simple math", well, if you did said math, you'd find that other things do more damage to tanks over two turns, regardless of the fact that they kill one at a time, instead of trying to kill 2 at once.

Absolutely. you are correct. However, Broadsides get to shoot every turn also, So, 2 targets every turn still beats 1 target every turn. It really becomes an issue when you start talking about mobility, and can your 10 melta guns get into melta range every turn, ect ect... The OP didn't ever say the criteria, so Its very vague, and this whole thread is all opinion, and varies on what Criteria you decided to include. In my comparison above, I decided to use a single unit vs as many targets that it could reasonable engage in one turn, at optimal range.

But, when you look at probability A Mantacore is going to get an average of 2 shots per turn, at the same target.

To scatter to another target is luck, so Rate of Fire to multiple targets I give to the Broadsides. ADV: Broadsides

Ability to hit I give to the Bs4 (with Correct equipment) twin Linked vs the scatter dice at BS4. ADV: Broadsides

Manticore is AV4, Rails are AP1 So the broadsides get a +1, however, the Manticore is Barrage, which means you get to pick the best of 2 Both are S10 ADV: Neither

Rails have a 72 inch range, Manticore is 24-120, this is subjective and depends on the table and type of game. However, 120 inch range is very nice. Adv: Manticore

IF you chose to look at over the entire game, you have the manticore firing 4 times only, and the Broadsides firing every turn, so Adv: Broadsides, (if you chose to look at that)


All in all, I give the advantage to the Broadsides over the Manticore, allthough the large blast makes the manticore much nastier vs any infantry it scatters on.

Thanks!

Broadsides fo sho. In fact I'd say railguns are one of the strongest weapons in the game if not the strongest.

Anti armour....I'd say the gacking collossus bomb.

Its a 10, 000 pound bomb. Goodbye all tanks!

Doctadeth wrote:

Just Dave wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:best AT weapon.

Zoanthrope Warp Lance.

Range 24"(IIRC)

Str10

AP1

Lance


why, yes, I am penetrating your LR on 3+

I'm pleased you said WEAPON, rather than unit! As it's also the most unreliable with a spore pod, short-ish range, nullification and perils!


Best Unit? Likely Broadsides, although MM land speeders and fire dragons shouldn't be underestimated, however Broadsides have the range that is otherwise laking in most melta-weapons...

MM land speeders and bikes when fleeting have the 3++ jinking save. Fire dragons get decimated by the monoliths. Plus the broadsides are useless in CC and need proper backup, As part of a whole force, they'd take out a monolith for sure, but on their lonesome... you'd have only a few turns then boom.

Edit: Melta veterans actually ended up taking 5/6 structure points off a plague tower in a recent apocalypse game before getting steamrolled by the chaos terminators behind them.

On its lonesome a monolith only has a few turns then boom, pretty much anything needs support, not least Tau. Doesn't stop the Broadsides being the best anti-tank unit IMHO. It doesn't matter so much about their quality in close combat, their arguably better than veterans, attack bikes and fire dragons due to their durability.

Broadsides are tough, long ranged, str 10, AP1, twin-linked, cheap, capable of moving and shooting and capable of shooting at different targets. No other unit can provide that for the same price IMO.
The veterans have to get close at which point they get zapped or struggle to take down a monolith.
Fire Dragons stuggle with monoliths but do better than vets because of the number of melta's they can bring to bear.
Land Speeders only get the one shot each and even then that's relying on 6's and are fragile.
Broadsides can shoot at monoliths from across the board and are rightly feared by Necron players.

You may call me biased, I call me right.

I generally tend to throw a thirster or skarbrand at anything armoured.
Gets the job done without any problems.

For my BA: A basic unit of termies with 2-3 chainfists work just as well.

willydstyle wrote:Fire dragons. Up to 10 of them, they all have melta guns for 16 points a piece (unlike 30 for those sternguard), they can have tank hunters, and they have melta bombs just in case their shooting didn't do enough for you.

Combi melta's are only 5 pts FYI.

I was under the impression that stern guard are 25 points a piece, then 5 more for combi-meltas.

Jaon wrote:These are all nasty and 100% lethal, but Broadsides are the clear winner because none of the other ones can kill monoliths!

Oh, I don't know. In my experience, wraithcannons make monoliths cry like Nancy Kerrigan.

Blood Angels Librarian, with honor guard.
honor guard take 5 Melta-guns
Librarian takes blood lance (if you are going for an AT unit)

and you can even throw a Lightning claw or Power fist on one or two or five of them for CC effective as well.


Edit: forgot the drop pod or razorback (Fast transports win)

Don't the witch or demon hunters have some type of melta bomb? is it a one time use, like a chapter master's orbital bombardment? Either way, I think melta bomb sounds like it could turn on some major league hurt.

they have orbital bombardments that come in every turn on a prepicked terrain feature.

3 to choose from

Lance Strike Str10, AP1, Large blast

Melta torpedo Str8, AP3, Large blast, Melta

Bombs Str4, AP5, Small blast, barrage 4

the lance strike isn't lance?

too bad they can't be guided. After the first turn, I'm guessing most enemies just keep their vehicles/troops (depending on what the bombardment is) off of the terrain feature. So could you call a lance strike or melta torpedo in on your own objective, then just move your own troops onto it on the final turn?

The inquisition's orbital strikes are pretty worthless.