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Space_Potato wrote:I seriously hope that the new GK are the god-like charaters they depict in the fluff.

I mean, an awesome statline, but expensive as hell. I mean 25-40 points for a PAGK. As long as the models are kick-ass, I will buy them.

S_P

They will definately have to adapt their special rules for the 5th edtion. Anything lackluster and expensive will be considered a waste of points. And if those expensive units are troops, don't expect many players to even consider 5th edtion Grey Knights any better than their prior incarnation.

Again, blatantly stolen from StickMonkey over @ Warseer where the DK discussion is getting decidely heated between INQ and GK players:

Army List guesses:

From what I've been able to gather, the codex has the following counts...caveats apply:

Including SCs, not including variant units ex. exterminator/demolished

Hq: 8-9 entries
El: 6-7 entries
Tr: 6 entries
Fa: 7 entries
He: 8 Entries
Dt: 4 entries

Ive heard the Army list section is between 12-14 pages.

wolfshadow wrote:
Including SCs, not including variant units ex. exterminator/demolished

Hq: 8-9 entries
El: 6-7 entries
Tr: 6 entries
Fa: 7 entries
He: 8 Entries
Dt: 4 entries
39 Total
Ive heard the Army list section is between 12-14 pages.

To compare (for the 'making a codex is zero sum and having inquisition takes away from GK' crowd)
Imperial Guard -
HQ - 10
El - 5
Tr - 7 (10 if you count Bast, Al'Rahem, Chek)
FA - 6
He - 5
DT - 1
34(37) Total
14 Pages

Same rules, 1 count per entry (variants don't count unless they have a separate entry) SC's counted.

And apples to apples, MEQ 'dex:

Space Wolves
HQ - 10
El - 6 (+Arjac)
Tr - 2 (+Lukas)
FA - 5
He - 7
DT - 3
33 (35) Total
14 Pages

Are we sure they're going to be released soon? If GW didn't showcase any models at gamesday we might be waiting for a while!! I wanna see pictures!!

Based on the recent info on forums and info given to GW staff nearly a year ago, it's about as definite (again, not definate as someone posted above, why do I keep seeing that?) as you can get. But GW keeps their advance notice short and focused these days and they are not going to distract buyers from the Dark Eldar release, new Skaven and other already announced items till the store tills are filled with sales of those items. They've not even announced details of the Skaven release yet and I wouldn't expect to hear about the next big 40K release till GW is sure the DE release is a hit.

BrassScorpion wrote:Based on the recent info on forums and info given to GW staff nearly a year ago, it's about as definite (again, not definate as someone posted above, why do I keep seeing that?) as you can get. But GW keeps their advance notice short and focused these days and they are not going to distract buyers from the Dark Eldar release, new Skaven and other already announced items till the store tills are filled with sales of those items. They've not even announced details of the Skaven release yet and I wouldn't expect to hear about the next big 40K release till GW is sure the DE release is a hit.

I dont even like DE and I want to buy some. :-) awsome models.

wolfshadow wrote:

I dont even like DE and I want to buy some. :-) awsome models.

Begone Heretic! There are 2 threads already dedicated to those sadomasochistic elfs. This thread has been consecrated for the 666th chapter and their pre-apocalypse release. (Though this reads quite harshly it is intended as a joke- Grey Knights only have Nemesis Force Humor)

Given the Inquisition units leaked so far, how many choices in each slot are left to GK?

Gitzbitah wrote:

wolfshadow wrote:

I dont even like DE and I want to buy some. :-) awsome models.

Begone Heretic! There are 2 threads already dedicated to those sadomasochistic elfs. This thread has been consecrated for the 666th chapter and their pre-apocalypse release. (Though this reads quite harshly it is intended as a joke- Grey Knights only have Nemesis Force Humor)

Given the Inquisition units leaked so far, how many choices in each slot are left to GK?

Assuming no overlap and perfect rumors (I don't imagine that we know everything.)

Inquisition
HQ - 1 Lord
Elite - 3 ISTs, DCA, Temple Assassins
Troops - 2 Conscripts, Penal Legion
Fast - 1 HellHound
Hvy - 1 Deathstrike
DT - 2 Chim, Valk
10 Units

GK
Hq: 7-8 entries
El: 3-4 entries
Tr: 4 entries
Fa: 6 entries
He: 7 Entries
Dt: 2 entries
29 Total

Another comparison, Codex DH had 4 HQ, 5 Elite, 2 Troop, 5 Hvy, 3 DT. 19 Units (not counting allies). So double the size.

I would imagine @ least one inquisitor being a special charachter. And I would bet for some sort of Inq in Elite spot like last time.

Asherian Command wrote:But I am asking what if the Grey Knights had an upgrade sprue like Blood Angels, would people use them or will their be no spure?

I don't think GW will do an upgrade sprue like BA, DA or SW - GK are just too different-looking. They should be all-new sculpts like BA Death Company or BA Sang Guard to allow the requisite Artificer detailing on the GK legs, torsos, etc.
____

@petre: I'd expect a bit more "Inq" stuff, but we'll see...

I'm pretty interested in this codex. Not for Grey Knights, but I've always liked the idea of Inquisitor Strike Force with a bunch of ISTs, etc.

eNvY wrote:I'm pretty interested in this codex. Not for Grey Knights, but I've always liked the idea of Inquisitor Strike Force with a bunch of ISTs, etc.

I never really got much use out of Inquistors, they'res always throwing their acolytes to the slaughter and then higher tailing it for cover. ISTs are good for a cheap unit to fill in the gaps, but are pretty much cannon fodder the true power in a Daemon Hunter army comes from and will always come from the Grey Knights. They have always made up their points back heck even my 5 man Purge squad have.

There hasn't been a real 'upgrade sprue' since Black Templars. Dark Angels and beyond have been full kits, containing whole models rather than just bits to add to existing models. Sure, there have been bitz for other models on those sprues (Deathwing parts on the DA sprue, Wolf Scout parts on the Woof sprue), but these are (more or less) complete kits.

The GK's will get the same treatment I suspect, both in PA and TA.

So Chimera and Valk are the ]['s dedicated transports, which of these do you think will be available for Grey Knights?

Land Raider+ variants- Precedence set in C:BA
Rhino- was in CH for ][
Razorback with twin linked psycannons- Has a model from FW

I'm pulling for the Razorback and would be happy with either of the other two. I think I'm as excited for this book as DE players are for theirs.

JohnHwangDD wrote:@pretre: I'd expect a bit more "Inq" stuff, but we'll see...

Yeah, I'm just going off what we know so far. I imagine Elite inq will be in there and probably a few other cool fluffy units. No rumors on them yet though.

The big thing for me is that the GK range is substantially increased and the Inq range is maintained. That's best of both worlds and bodes well for later inquisition codexes.

That and I'm glad that the zealots vacated this thread and headed for the sexy sob thread.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Gamble wrote:So Chimera and Valk are the ]['s dedicated transports, which of these do you think will be available for Grey Knights?

Land Raider+ variants- Precedence set in C:BA
Rhino- was in CH for ][
Razorback with twin linked psycannons- Has a model from FW

I'm pulling for the Razorback and would be happy with either of the other two. I think I'm as excited for this book as DE players are for theirs.

I'm betting Stormraven with PsyCrusaders too, but that may just be a heavy option. Are terms allowed in a SR? BA codex just says JP troops take up two, but doesn't exclude TDA. I'd assume 2 per slot.

So 5 GK Term and a HQ in a SR with a Lib Dread? Yes, please! That's 1000 pt army right there. lol

The number of fast attack choices seems a bit high though (7). Even if one is the Hellhound that leaves six.

It would be nice if Armoured Sentinels could also be taken, but this probably isn't likely.

hmm, this could be good or bad for the gk... we will have to wait and see

TBD wrote:The number of fast attack choices seems a bit high though (7). Even if one is the Hellhound that leaves six.

It would be nice if Armoured Sentinels could also be taken, but this probably isn't likely.

It is actually 8, if you count the HH, based on rumors.

Okay, lets get speculative based on what we 'know':

Inquisition
HQ - 1 Lord
Elite - 3 ISTs, DCA, Temple Assassins
Troops - 2 Conscripts, Penal Legion
Fast - 1 HellHound
Hvy - 1 Deathstrike
DT - 2 Chim, Valk
10 Units

GK
Hq: 7-8 entries GK GM, 2(3)x Characters, GK Hero, Lib Dread, Chaplain, Retinue, ???
El: 3-4 entries TA Knights, Walker, Dread
Tr: 4 entries PA GK, ???, ???, ???
Fa: 6 entries Storm Raven, Landspeeder*, New GK FA Choice*, ???, ???, ???
He: 7 Entries Crusader, LR, Redeemer, Purgation Squad, ???, ???, ???
Dt: 2 entries, RazorBack, Rhino*
29 Total

* are added by me speculatively.

Gamble wrote:So Chimera and Valk are the ]['s dedicated transports, which of these do you think will be available for Grey Knights?

Land Raider+ variants- Precedence set in C:BA
Rhino- was in C: DH for ][
Razorback with twin linked psycannons- Has a model from FW

I'm pulling for the Razorback and would be happy with either of the other two. I think I'm as excited for this book as DE players are for theirs.

I'd expect Land Raider and Storm Raven, along with Drop Pods.

I would *NOT* expect Rhino or Razorbacks, simply to drive home the message that GK aren't regular SMs, and to force different tactics. This is a chance for GW to differentiate GKs as not ordinary SMs, and removing all Rhinos & Razorbacks is a *great* way to do that.
____

TBD wrote:The number of fast attack choices seems a bit high though (7). Even if one is the Hellhound that leaves six.

It would be nice if Armoured Sentinels could also be taken, but this probably isn't likely.

Sentinels are rather specific to the Guard, but I could see them. I could also easily see Inquisition (finally!!) getting a Kan-like AV12 Combat Walker with DNCCWs & HF / HB / MM. Ideally, it would be drop-transportable in a Valk, like an Elysian Sentinel. This would give Inquisition massed air-strike capablity based on Valks & SRGs.


==== I ====

Getting speculative? OK, I'll take a stab.

Inquisition
3/8 HQ - Lord + 3 Special Chars (Malleus, Sicarus)
5/7 Elite - Inq. Stormies, Death Cultists, Temple Assassins + Psyker Battle Squad, Assault Ogryns
5/6 Troops - Conscript Guardsmen, Penal Legion + Assault Servitors, Gun Servitors, Veteran Guardsmen
5/7 Fast - Valkyrie, HellHound + Vendetta, Armored Sentinel, Assault Sentinel
2/8 Heavy - Deathstrike + Leman Russ Battle Tank
1/4 Trans - Chimera
total = 21/40 Units

Grey Knights
5/8 HQ: Master + 4 Special Characters (Stern, Fighter, Psyker, Dread)
2/7 Elite: GK Termies, Ven. Dreadnought
1/6 Troops: AA Grey Knights
2/7 Fast: AA GK w/ JPs, Landspeeder
6/8 Heavy: GK Purgation Squad, Dreadnought, Ironclad Dreadnought Storm Raven, Storm Raven Demolisher, Battlecannon Storm Raven
3/4 Trans: Land Raider, Crusader, Redeemer
total = 19/40 Total

explanation

There are a number of big jumps here, which are rather unprecedented - I'll try to explain my reasoning.

Inq HQ is small, as they're still just men, and not super visible. I'd expect Malleus (for GKs) and Sicarus (for Assassins) special characters to flesh this section out.

Inq Elite is a giant grab bag of neat stuff that can be used to flesh out an army. PBS is an obvious adder, and shares models to the IG when they go into production, much like Inq Stormies will also share. Ogryns of some sort are also obvious, and easily doable, after Ogre Kingdoms, also share with IG.

Inq Troops are the bulk, and massed, Fearless, mind-wiped Servitors help drive home Fluff of how the Inquisition really is fearsome, giving something of an Undead Vampire Counts flavor. The only missing piece are Fantatic non-Stormie humans, which would be IG Veteran equivalent. I'd expect Carapace to be standard for Vets & Servitors, to differentiate against 5+ Guardsmen and 3+ Sisters.

Inq Fast, I add the Sentinels, with a Assault Sentinel replacing the basic Sentinel - it's a model that the Imperium needs, and could be done as a 2-in-1 kit like the IG Sentinel. Both variants are AV12, again, differentiating as "better" than regular Guard stuff.

Inq Heavy & Transport is just the LRBT (with some integral variants, but *not* squadronable), Deathstrike, & Chimera making space for GK armor - this is where the Inq is "weak", and NOT like Guard which is strong on Heavy.

Inq is more elite than Guard, more reliable, but doesn't lay down the firepower in the same way.


GK HQs have 5 slots, because these are awesomely mighty heroes. The Captain & Librarian combine into Master ("all GK are Psykers"). NO Chaplain to be NOT SMs.

GK Troops & Elite are just GKTs , AA GKs, & Ven Dread. Clean & simple.

GK Fast gain Jump Packs (which is like Teleport, but modeled, rather than "invisible"). vanilla shooty Landspeeders are fine as-is, but no Storm, because that's SM *Scouts*

GK Heavy keeps the Purgation squad, adds requisite Dreads (use Dread-specific bitz included in new AAGK & GKT squads), along with the all-new 3-in-1 Stormraven kit: basic transport (see BAs), demolisher and battlecannon (looks just like a mini Thunderhawk!). Note that Valk squadrons (above) don't compete with SRG squadrons, so a player could conceivably field 9 Valks & 9 SRGs, assuming they had sufficient points. Cool!

GK Transports gets all of the Land Raiders; no Rhino or Razorbacks.

On net, GKs are more elite than SMs, with some massive DS "blitz" ability (GKTs, Pods, Landspeeders & JPs, Stormravens). I imagine that GK Land Raiders will Deep Strike for "FREE", just because GW knows it winds certain players up.

Plastics

Wave 1:
GK Termies
3-in-1 AA GK / JPs / Purgation
3-in-1 Stormraven Gunship / Demolisher / Battlecannon (share with BA)

Wave 2:
2-in-1 Inq Stormtroopers / Inq Veterans (share with IG)
2-in-1 Sentinel / Inq Assault ~Sentinel
2-in-1 Ogryns / Assault Ogryns (share with IG)

Wave 3 (C: Sisters of Battle release):
3-in-1 Psyker Battle Squad / Conscripts / Penal Legion (share with IG; double as Sisters Frateris Militia)
2-in-1 Servitors / Assault Servitors (share with Sisters)


*Whew*, lots of wishlisting there, but definitely doable.

I see no reason why there wouldn't be a Gk chaplain. it's not like they don't exist. If anything I wouldn't be surprised if they made them into an elite selection like BA and added something reclusiarch-esque to the captain/master/paladin/whatever.

Is it written in the Fluff that the GK have Chaplains? GKs are intrinsically fanatically devoted to the Emperor, like a Cult Marine, so I don't think they're necessary in the same way that "all GK are Psykers" makes the Librarian redundant.

Fundamentally, Grey Knights are simply a different flavor of Chaos Marines, and should be treated and designed as such, with the GK Codex serving as prototype for Codex: Chaos Legions.

Hey, so, just as folks have been using the BA and SW codices to resurrect their Chaos armies without using the lameduck C:CSM, I can use the GK list for my Chaos army? Now that's even more ironic than using BA or SW lists. Perfect.

JohnHwangDD wrote:Is it written in the Fluff that the GK have Chaplains? GKs are intrinsically fanatically devoted to the Emperor, like a Cult Marine, so I don't think they're necessary in the same way that "all GK are Psykers" makes the Librarian redundant.

Yup, it's in one of the Grey knights novels, either the 1st or 2nd one can't remember which.

Death By Monkeys wrote:Hey, so, just as folks have been using the BA and SW codices to resurrect their Chaos armies without using the lameduck C:CSM, I can use the GK list for my Chaos army? Now that's even more ironic than using BA or SW lists. Perfect.

Fearless? Check. +1 SM statline? Check. Bonus rules? Check. It's a Cult Marine.

Which, BTW, only makes sense, as it appears GW is retconning / fleshing out the GK as an amalgam of the handful of Traitor Legion Loyalist Marines who survived Istvaan III and similar purge efforts as the Heresy got under way.
____

Grarg wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:Is it written in the Fluff that the GK have Chaplains? GKs are intrinsically fanatically devoted to the Emperor, like a Cult Marine, so I don't think they're necessary in the same way that "all GK are Psykers" makes the Librarian redundant.

Yup, it's in one of the Grey knights novels, either the 1st or 2nd one can't remember which.

Thanks for the pointer.

So if the novels are to be taken as canon, perhaps GK Purgation squads will be armed with Multi-Lazors, yes???

JohnHwangDD wrote:

I would *NOT* expect Rhino or Razorbacks, simply to drive home the message that GK aren't regular SMs, and to force different tactics. This is a chance for GW to differentiate GKs as not ordinary SMs, and removing all Rhinos & Razorbacks is a *great* way to do that.

Razorbacks were listed on the first page in the rumors and a 'battle report' from the GKs.

Getting speculative? OK, I'll take a stab.

All sorts of speculation. I like the servitor listings. Not a huge fan of the crazy SR's with Demo and BC, but whatever.

explanation

I could see PBS, not sure about Ogryn (but I'm not a fan of them for IG either). I also like the consistent 'better' than IG but not as good as SM/Sisters approach your wishlisting has.

GK Rhinos & Razorbacks? Major disappointment. Oh, well.

Stormraven will be at least a 2-in-1, and the Battlecannon is obvious. A second barrel is cheap, and lets it fill the Vindi role.

Ogryns are pretty fanatic, and they desperately need a plastic kit, along with halfway decent rules.

I'm with Jonnyboy that the GK's shouldn't have Rhinos and Razorbacks (or any Rhino-based vehicle for that matter). If the Rhino/Razorback makes it into the Codex, it should be an option for Inquisitorial units only, not any GK units.

And really, the R-Back is a Marine unit, unique to them like the Pred, Vindi and Whirly.

Bugger about the razors. So nows the time to shelf all the psycannon turrets?

I'd like to see the Razorback, but only for Purgation Squads.
Psycannon turret FTW.

kenshin620 wrote:Bugger about the razors. So nows the time to shelf all the psycannon turrets?

They're an Inquisitorial transport option anyway, not a GK transport option.