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But at the end of the day everyone wins. Doodoo successfully trolls everyone, and everyone gets to bash Doodoo.

heh...."Doodoo"..... hehehe..

haha. GFT^


Automatically Appended Next Post:

AbaddonFidelis wrote:when this thread first came up I thought "another weird idea thread that wont last a week." it's longevity is really surprising. techmarines suck. moving on....

QFT^

AbaddonFidelis wrote:when this thread first came up I thought "another weird idea thread that wont last a week." it's longevity is really surprising. techmarines suck. moving on....

Sad thing is they wouldent suck as much if they had IC

And so its 4+ with servo harness -1 for each servitor, so with 3 servitors its an auto pass

Looking through this thread, it seems like there are a lot of negative reactions to this idea but none are based on actual experience. I have tried this idea and found it to be helpful. I would respect your criticism more if it were based on experience rather than what you think would happen. Also, comparisons like "your 60 pt techmarine will not kills as much as my 10 man sternguard combi melta squad in a drop pod" are pretty inapposite and hilarious.

DooDoo wrote:Looking through this thread, it seems like there are a lot of negative reactions to this idea but none are based on actual experience. I have tried this idea and found it to be helpful. I would respect your criticism more if it were based on experience rather than what you think would happen. Also, comparisons like "your 60 pt techmarine will not kills as much as my 10 man sternguard combi melta squad in a drop pod" are pretty inapposite and hilarious.

Everyone's reaction was that a 60pt 1 shot melta suicide unit was not worth it, can you agree that is a little expensive for a unit that most times will only get 1 shot and then die?

It is a 60 pt investment that can have a far greater impact on the game than its one melta shot. Try it and then decide.

Gibbsey wrote:

DooDoo wrote:Looking through this thread, it seems like there are a lot of negative reactions to this idea but none are based on actual experience. I have tried this idea and found it to be helpful. I would respect your criticism more if it were based on experience rather than what you think would happen. Also, comparisons like "your 60 pt techmarine will not kills as much as my 10 man sternguard combi melta squad in a drop pod" are pretty inapposite and hilarious.

Everyone's reaction was that a 60pt 1 shot melta suicide unit was not worth it, can you agree that is a little expensive for a unit that most times will only get 1 shot and then die?

I can actually find situational use for such a unit in a Pred/Vindie/Razorback spam list. Don't throw out generalizations like "everyone".

... I'm unsure why you keep backing him sour but you are welcome to your opinion and i could just see it working in the list you have described.

The problem is that DooDoo suggests adding this in every type of is including a non-mech lists which have lots of Jump pack meltas already. In which case the LS is much better option (Attack bike if that's your thing).

It just doesn't work well enough, I see no reason to try it, again it does get one melta shot, but in my all JP army it is near useless, i have enough melta with just assault marines... I don't need it. But I could see it being useful in a mech army if it isn't being used as a suicide unit but used to fix tanks, then it sounds very useful and underrated.

but as a suicide melta, no, no no, there are many other better choices for around the same cost that doesn't use up my elites which i need for sang priests, termies, sternguard, dreds, libbie dreds with blood lance, or any of the other more effective goodies in there.

you keep saying we don't see how good it is since we haven't tried it, but can't you see at least some of the arguments against it? I'm not asking you to conform, but please stop saying we don't know what we are talking because we haven't played the game long enough, or don't understand the BA codex, or haven't tried it. We are all working from our own knowledge of the game to explain why we feel it isn't very viable, and many people here have great points.

techpriests are good, but not the way you are using it.

Sageheart wrote:It just doesn't work well enough, I see no reason to try it, again it does get one melta shot, but in my all JP army it is near useless, i have enough melta with just assault marines... I don't need it. But I could see it being useful in a mech army if it isn't being used as a suicide unit but used to fix tanks, then it sounds very useful and underrated.

but as a suicide melta, no, no no, there are many other better choices for around the same cost that doesn't use up my elites which i need for sang priests, termies, sternguard, dreds, libbie dreds with blood lance, or any of the other more effective goodies in there.

you keep saying we don't see how good it is since we haven't tried it, but can't you see at least some of the arguments against it? I'm not asking you to conform, but please stop saying we don't know what we are talking because we haven't played the game long enough, or don't understand the BA codex, or haven't tried it. We are all working from our own knowledge of the game to explain why we feel it isn't very viable, and many people here have great points.

techpriests are good, but not the way you are using it.

Even in the mech unit suicide dropping it isnt that good unless you can bring in your army close quickly, at least then they have to choose to waste shots on the techmarine but even then they will probebly shoot it with something that cant hit your mech anyway.

At least if you give him servo harness and some servitors he can hide in the unit and has some firepower

DooDoo wrote:Looking through this thread, it seems like there are a lot of negative reactions to this idea but none are based on actual experience. I have tried this idea and found it to be helpful. I would respect your criticism more if it were based on experience rather than what you think would happen. Also, comparisons like "your 60 pt techmarine will not kills as much as my 10 man sternguard combi melta squad in a drop pod" are pretty inapposite and hilarious.

My guess is that your expierience is based on a few shots and scatters that got lucky.

we arn't saying it WONT work, we are saying that it is highly unlikely to work.

we also don't need to have done exactly what you are proposing to weigh our opinions. we just need to combine what we know about Deepstriking, combi-meltas, and Techpriests. and the things i didn't know about DoA, but now do doesn't make the idea any more viable. it just makes it more likely for him to come in early and be in melta range.


BAs also don't need suicide melta, especially not one that sucks an Elite slot dry. the better option if you really needed to drop a single model with a combi-melta would be to do what was suggested earlier and do this with a Sanguinary Priest. at least he can share the Slot with 3 other priests.

Armies that use Suicide melta usually do it because they either don't have a reliable way to spam Melta OR their melta just isn't fast enough. BA have neither of these problems as Assault squads(troops, so you can take alot of them) can take up to 2 Melta guns and they move 12" a turn(Fast) either with Packs or in a Rhino.


Techmarines aren't used with Vanilla marines much as they suck up an Elite slot there too. and they are only competing with Terminators, Dreds and Sternguard.

if i was running a Predator heavy BA list then i MIGHT take a Techmarine, but he would have Servitors and would fix my Tanks rather then running off to annoy an enemy tank and then die.


and the example of "your 60 pt techmarine will not kills as much as my 10 man sternguard combi melta squad in a drop pod" is very relevent. it is actually likely to kill something when it comes in, can split and fire at 2 targets, can't be ignored after it does, it isn't likely to die right away, and is a threat after it has used all the combi-meltas.

DooDoo wrote:Looking through this thread, it seems like there are a lot of negative reactions to this idea but none are based on actual experience. I have tried this idea and found it to be helpful. I would respect your criticism more if it were based on experience rather than what you think would happen. Also, comparisons like "your 60 pt techmarine will not kills as much as my 10 man sternguard combi melta squad in a drop pod" are pretty inapposite and hilarious.

Some of us don't need to try a bad idea to figure out that it's a bad idea. No matter how many times something happens to work for you, that doesn't change the fact that its chances of working are small. If you work out the chance that you'll score that odd kill on a tank in optimal conditions, compared to the cost (60 points) and other drawbacks (losing an elites slot), it simply isn't worth it in the long run.

By the way, for those of you who are dropping the nebulous "it isn't likely to work" argument, here's the math:

Your optimal chances of killing a vehicle, and by optimal I mean here that you assume that a) you land within 6", b) you land in front of a facing with AV 10, are (2/3)*((1/36)*(1/6)+(35/36)*(1/2)), or a little less than one third. This drops to (2/3)*((1/6)*(1/6)+(2/3)*(1/2)), or just worse than one fourth, if you land outside of 2d6 pen range, and all this is assuming a) you don't crash into the vehicle in question, b) you always manage to land within its AV 10 face, and c) there's nothing else around (troops or terrain) that could cause a mishap, all assumptions that favor your argument that this guy is useful. Your chances of making that kill against a land raider with Av 14 on all faces (and this will be, once again, multiplied by the chance of not scattering into it or whatever else is around) are only (2/3)*((5/36)*(1/6)+(7/12)*(1/2)), or a little more than a fifth, if you land within 2d6 AP range, or a minuscule (2/3)*(1/6)*(1/6), or about one fortieth, if you don't. As anyone who is willing to do a little math can see, even in the best possible circumstances, your chances of making that kill hardly justify the cost.

Here's the problem with endorsing an idea based on nothing other than your own personal experience: It can't be generalized to all possible circumstances. Thus, it has led us all (or at least me) to the conclusion that the only possible way this could have worked for you so effectively, barring cheating (of course), is pure, dumb luck. And basing your decisions on the assumption of extraordinary luck is a great way to lose games.

MekanobSamael wrote:

DooDoo wrote:Looking through this thread, it seems like there are a lot of negative reactions to this idea but none are based on actual experience. I have tried this idea and found it to be helpful. I would respect your criticism more if it were based on experience rather than what you think would happen. Also, comparisons like "your 60 pt techmarine will not kills as much as my 10 man sternguard combi melta squad in a drop pod" are pretty inapposite and hilarious.

Some of us don't need to try a bad idea to figure out that it's a bad idea. No matter how many times something happens to work for you, that doesn't change the fact that its chances of working are small. If you work out the chance that you'll score that odd kill on a tank in optimal conditions, compared to the cost (60 points) and other drawbacks (losing an elites slot), it simply isn't worth it in the long run.

By the way, for those of you who are dropping the nebulous "it isn't likely to work" argument, here's the math:

Your optimal chances of killing a vehicle, and by optimal I mean here that you assume that a) you land within 6", b) you land in front of a facing with AV 10, are (2/3)*((1/36)*(1/6)+(35/36)*(1/2)), or a little less than one third. This drops to (2/3)*((1/6)*(1/6)+(2/3)*(1/2)), or just worse than one fourth, if you land outside of 2d6 pen range, and all this is assuming a) you don't crash into the vehicle in question, b) you always manage to land within its AV 10 face, and c) there's nothing else around (troops or terrain) that could cause a mishap, all assumptions that favor your argument that this guy is useful. Your chances of making that kill against a land raider with Av 14 on all faces (and this will be, once again, multiplied by the chance of not scattering into it or whatever else is around) are only (2/3)*((5/36)*(1/6)+(7/12)*(1/2)), or a little more than a fifth, if you land within 2d6 AP range, or a minuscule (2/3)*(1/6)*(1/6), or about one fortieth, if you don't. As anyone who is willing to do a little math can see, even in the best possible circumstances, your chances of making that kill hardly justify the cost.

Here's the problem with endorsing an idea based on nothing other than your own personal experience: It can't be generalized to all possible circumstances. Thus, it has led us all (or at least me) to the conclusion that the only possible way this could have worked for you so effectively, barring cheating (of course), is pure, dumb luck. And basing your decisions on the assumption of extraordinary luck is a great way to lose games.

well put