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The techmarine with a free jump pack and a combi-melta. 60 pts for a DOA deep striking suicide melta unit with a 2+ save. Not much out there better than that.

ROLF ... so what you're saying is his job is to die? Free KP


Look you want to have 2D6 anit armour?

I'd take Land speeders with a Multi-Melta 60pts (though I'd also find 10pts for a Heavy Flamer). Having a a bigger gun means it can scatter away from the target and still have a good shot at being under half range.

DooDoo wrote:The techmarine with a free jump pack and a combi-melta. 60 pts for a DOA deep striking suicide melta unit with a 2+ save. Not much out there better than that.

I think it would be better just to save the 60 points for an Assault Squad with Meltagun/ Flamer and PF sarge. It is a better investment. I think suicide units are best when they give a first turn kill. Forfeiting a KP for a third tunr kill is a waste, just have an assault squad do it.

The fact that you dont understand the use of suicide melta worries me.

...he gets one melta shot. Statistically, you need at least 3 to stand an average chance of killing a tank.

For 10pts less I can get a mm attack bike.

This OP seems like a flame bait. Seriously.

DooDoo wrote:The fact that you dont understand the use of suicide melta worries me.

I understand Deff Koptas quit well, but I don't see why I need this techmarine in place of something else.

Especially when the Elite slot is so chock full of other needed things.

Like Sanguinary priests. 6" FNP bubbles for 50 pts. SIGN ME UP! And 3 per one slot. One of the best elites choices out there.

yeah qft to the above post!

techmarine with melta is not a good way to kill tanks, and mad elites are better.

You only need one elite slot for priests. The techie can also be given a power weapon. That, plus his 2+ save, means that people will be using heavy weapons to get rid of him.

Someone's been reading YTTH too much.

He has WS4, one base attack, one wound, no invulnerable. Why would I be using Heavy weapons to kill him? If he touches a model with any sort of armour ignoring attack in combat he's dust.

Give him a power weapon so he can have a single attack with it given you exchanged his BP for a Combi-melta? Sounds like someone doesn't understand the point of suicide-melta, and that's the least of it.

Sure, if he does kill a vehicle on the drop he might have been worth it over a landspeeder because he boosts your cover elsewhere on the table. Might. Because a Landspeeder is still a real threat in following turns if your opponent has vehicles left on the table.

If he doesn't kill a vehicle, I hope that bolster defenses end up worth the 60 points you paid for it.

Do you keep power weapons in your backfield? Thats an interesting strategy

Meh, just hit him with anything really and he bends over. If all else fails, use fire. In other words, shoot him with bolters/flashlights/pulse carbines/slingshots and kill him with volume of fire, not that hard against single models with 1 wound...

Do you not see the benefit of an opponent shooting at a 60 pt unit with a 2+ save that will likely have a cover save?

No, I don't.

First of all, you'd have to deep strike in cover to get it, thus risking your model. If you manage to do that, you've got to hit, penetrate (preferrably) and roll a 4+ with your melta. Then you realize that your cover save won't mean diddley against small-arms fire, and you curse yourself as your 1W Kill Point meets an untimely deat, possibly without accomplishing anything.

Kill points are a red herring. If you build an army to minimize them, you are hamstringing your abilities.

Go back to YTTH land.

BloodThirSTAR wrote:Go back to YTTH land.

I have offered insights and thoughtful analysis. You have offered vitriol and insults. And yet you tell me to leave?

Look its quite simple ... It doesn't do the job as well as other units. You can try and make him work but the end of the day you'd have been better off taking 60pts of hunter-killer missiles ... they also suck but are more likely to kill something and don't gve up a KP

It seems like a useful model, if you have excess Elite slots, which is quite possible if you're building a mass Fast Pred/mech sort of list.

I would consider it an option, but no more than an option; if I can see the unit working well within the overall list I may take it, but a single DS melta shot is not impressive enough to make me try to shift a list around to include it.

If I was running a 6 Pred list with two deep-striking Lance Librarians, then two more DS melta solos might be useful for breaking up enemy formations and giving my opponent another wildcard factor to think about, in addition to my AV13 wall.

Ok, for 60pts I can have;

A techmarine as you describe, which takes up an elites slot which I can put sanguiary priests, furiso dreads, sternguard and terminators in plus other less used choices.
-He can take damage from weapons of all strength.
-He has one wound, this means if a single wound gets through your armour save or someone pops a meltagun in you face (the melta will probably be moving up into a AT firing -position so them shooting at you on the move doesn't detract from their shooting much), if he scatters into cover and fails his DT test he dies instantly.
-He has mediocre combat ability for an elites slot, he won't stand up in combat, he'll fall down to serious or lucky shooting and there is a 1/3 chance he'll wiff his combi-melta shot meaning his entire plan is ruined.
-Can bolster defenses (how useful is that to an aggressive army)

I could then take;

A land speeder with multi-melta
-This takes up a fast attack slot which has close to the amount of competition as BA elites.
-It is immune to S3 or less weaponry and S4 can only glance it, this means it has good protection vs small arms compare to a tech priest.
-It's a fast skimmer which means it'll get into place quicker and can gain a 4+ cover save when needed.
-It has more than one melta shot
-It doesn't have to be within 6" of a target to be effective.
-It will stand up in close combat better due to the armour and it can drive away at the end.
-For an extra 10pts it also becomes an effective anti-hoard vehicle
-They can be taken 3 per a slot alleviating the problem of slots.

An attack bike with muti-melta. (for 50pts)
-This takes up a fast attack slot which has close to the amount of competition as BA elites.
-Has T5 making them slightly better vs small arms
-Have a worse save so they suffer vs Ap3 weaponry (but how much of that do we see around these days?)
-Saves 10pts over a suicide techmarine.
-It has more than one melta shot
-It doesn't have to be within 6" of a target to be effective
-They can be taken 3 per a slot alleviating the problem of slots.

I could also invest the 60pts into a unit of assault marines with 2 meltaguns.
-Costs 60pts more
-Has an extra shot
-Can shoot multiple times
-Is scoring
-Doesn't take a slot with high competition in it.
-It has more than one melta shot
-Option of buying a 35pt off transport which can also mount anti-tank weapons.

The last three options IMO and the opinion of most other people trump the techmarine.

But I am not suggesting the techmarine replace the fast attack slots or assault marines. I am suggesting that it is a good unit when you are looking to max out the FOC

DooDoo wrote:But I am not suggesting the techmarine replace the fast attack slots or assault marines. I am suggesting that it is a good unit when you are looking to max out the FOC

... What? Who want to max out the FOC? What possible advantage is there in having everything?

DooDoo wrote:But I am not suggesting the techmarine replace the fast attack slots or assault marines. I am suggesting that it is a good unit when you are looking to max out the FOC

OK, good point but, if I've already maxed out on my slots, then surely I'll have enough melta already? Sanguinary priests, furisos, sternguard, terminators... hell, even sanguinary guard are probably better choices for maxing a FoC.

On a side note, by the time you've fill HS, FA, troops and HQ in a BA army and you still need more melta, your doing something wrong.

If BA had master of the forges with jump packs then it might be worth it because HQ slots lack competition in low point games but other than that I really don't see the idea working. A close combat or support orientated tech marines might work but with a jump pack the whole point of tech marines goes out the window (they fix vehicles, but they'll have not chance without a servo arm) and if you want a CC support unit a chaplain or sanguinary priest work better.

the BA have much better ways of using their Elite Slots.

3 Priests and 2 Furioso Libbys comes to mind.

The Gem of the Blood Angels Elite Slots=Priests

Priests are the only elites that BA truly need, everything else is nice but BA can live without them.

Grey Templar wrote:the BA have much better ways of using their Elite Slots.

3 Priests and 2 Furioso Libbys comes to mind.

Perhaps if you played the army you would know that furiosos dont really work.

This TechMarine is more a liability than of any help, especially in KP games.

Furiosos don't work you say, well I say you don't know how to use them yourself then because mine 9 times out of ten preform amazingly well and are still on the board.