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DooDoo wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:the BA have much better ways of using their Elite Slots.

3 Priests and 2 Furioso Libbys comes to mind.

Perhaps if you played the army you would know that furiosos dont really work.

Alright, now you have shown you are trolling. Furiosos can take blood tallons. A pair of them. Guess how man attacks? INFINITE! INFINITE ATTACKS! All you have to do is wound, then your number of wounds goes back to being your attacks, and you do it right then. I have seen several 30 man boys squads die in a single round of combat to ONE of these bad boys. And lets not forget, if you REALLY want melta in elites, tank sternguard in a drop pod. They get special ammunition, there is five of them, they can take 2 actual melta guns for 5 points AND combi-meltas for 5 points and get all other ranged weapons for a massive discount. The tech marine, who should only really be taken if your 1-1 on troops and tanks, is the least useful of the Elites slots. You can trust me. I'm a doctor.

DooDoo wrote:Perhaps if you played the army you would know that furiosos dont really work.

From the brilliant tactical master-mind that gave us the techpriest bomb!

I play BA's and I use three furioso libbies in my mech list. They are amazing. I actually want a tech-priest in my army, as it would be awesome to get my furiosos up and running again if they get immobilized, but as others have said, elite slots are precious in a BA army. The priest should have been a "no-slot" IMO, that's the only way people would see one on the table.

Your idea is flawed because a single melta at Bs4 is not reliable enough. KP's also have to be considered to some degree, and there are better choices for this particular role in the BA codex. Deepstriking units with melta is not hard to come by in the codex.

I am seeing a correlation between callsign and post quality.

As a pretty hardcore blood angel player I must say this is quite possibly the worst strategy i've seen for BA in a long time

Congrats.. you've made it into my memory

If you want deep strike meltas take honor guard.. or virtually anything with meltas

Or virtually anything without meltas

furiosos are pretty amazing, and even if they weren't priests are the gem of elities and then you have termies, and libbie dreds to think about. your techpriest would be good if i have 60 points to spare and an elite spot to spare, but in my lists i never do considering i play priest and dred/sang priest heavy. plus if i do have the points i could choose a better unit for tank killing, one that is more viable. your model has one wound with a good save, i can rapid fire my guardsmen and prob kill him in a turn...

if Furioso Libbys are junk i will gladly trade any of my Vanilla Elites for them. you can have my TH/SS terminators.

Grey Templar wrote:if Furioso Libbys are junk i will gladly trade any of my Vanilla Elites for them. you can have my TH/SS terminators.

We already do, you can have our fast whirlwind if we can get your thunderfire, and I'll even throw in our AWESOME "techmarine bomb" for Vulkan

Stern guard are even better then the tech marine when it comes to deep strike melta. Tech marines are a support unit at BEST! The only list they should be in is a meched up list. Trust me, I used to run a tech priest with a combi flamer (Anti Deepstrike). He almost always died when a unit shot at him, and failed to do almost anything.

Also, just as a side note, I HATE the term "suicide unit". I try to treat these games as a real battle. As in, you shouldn't be trying to kill your own men. Ever. Man. Counts.

Illumini wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:if Furioso Libbys are junk i will gladly trade any of my Vanilla Elites for them. you can have my TH/SS terminators.

We already do, you can have our fast whirlwind if we can get your thunderfire, and I'll even throw in our AWESOME "techmarine bomb" for Vulkan

i'll trade Shrike for the Furiosos.

Fleet, scoring, FNP assault marines

Grey Templar wrote:

Fleet, scoring, FNP assault marines

::Nerdgasm!::

Come on guys stop throwing ice cream on the screen.

I can only lead you to water...

DooDoo wrote:I can only lead you to water...

And then we can tell you that the water you have lead us to is actually an open sewage drain, and that a fresh mountain spring, a soda vending machine and a bar are very close by.

DooDoo wrote:I can only lead you to water...

Troll is obvious troll, obviously .

Answer me this. Since mech BA have no room for speeders, where do you get your suicide melta from? Your troops? Why is that a good idea? Or, do you spend 205 pts on a 4 melta honor guard?

you can buy a honor guard squad with 4 meltas for what, 150 and that can be a good squad, with melta, and FnP.

You also don't need suicide melta to win... assault squads with melta are great, they can melta a tank and if they have a priest nearby they wont die so easily, def in an army of DoA army that is all about how fast and close you can get to the enemy. you can also get a speeder with multimelta which also forces people to lead fire too it.

another is a sternguard squad with combi-melta in a drop pod. They can work well too!

also your choice of suicide melta isnt as useful at all... you get ONE SHOT!! for 60 points before that model is dead.... think of it that way, if you can spend 60 more points for an assault squad with two meltas you get a squad which can take objectives, get TWO shots, and assault and kill many units....

plus the whole point stuff with a tech marine is to get to use his whole like fixing tanks ability and that isn't utalized when hes jping into enemy land to get his one shot which may miss, and most likely do nothing... only to get rapid fired, or plasmed to death... and give the enemy a KP

DooDoo wrote:Answer me this. Since mech BA have no room for speeders, where do you get your suicide melta from? Your troops? Why is that a good idea? Or, do you spend 205 pts on a 4 melta honor guard?

Mech ba players won't drop dead at the game table if they take their 3baal 3fast vindi razorback list and drop 1 baal for a speeder.

normally, Suicide Melta is used when the army doesn't have much Melta elsewhere.


BA's are rolling in Melta with the option to take it on Assault squads and, because of this, don't need Suicide Melta. especially in a FoC slot that has so much more to offer.

DooDoo wrote:Answer me this. Since mech BA have no room for speeders, where do you get your suicide melta from? Your troops? Why is that a good idea? Or, do you spend 205 pts on a 4 melta honor guard?

You dont USE a suicide unit. Its a waste of points, a waste of time, a waste of a slot and a waste of manpower. And why cant you take the speeders from FA? Mech armies generally are all loaded in transports, so there is no shortage of manpower. Razorbacks can be kitted to fill the void of Anti tank or anti-infantry if need be. So taking away ONE Ball pred for a MM landspeeder squadren (1-3, add to taste). With that set up, you have something that can pop down, shoot the tank you wanted dead, probably kill it, have the ability to fire again if you failed the first shot and have a higher survivability rate and kill rate then your tech marine, who has one shot no matter what, and after he shoots he is now in the middle of enemy territory with only a bolter. And the landspeeder costs the same price.

My army has exactly 0 suicide melta units, and runs fine. Sure, I have two melta guns, but they are in units DESIGNED to live. When building a list, you dont build with the intention of having half of it DIE by turn two. You make it be able to withstand punishment. I run a 5 man assault squad with a melta gun, plasma pistol, power weapon and priest. They have taken lots of shots and walked through it, have more then one shot and can capture an objective. Honestly, your idea is to give your opponent the benefit of taking away on of your elites slots, for MAYBE killing one of his tanks, which are showing up in non-meq books as squadrons of one to three now. And dont give me this "2+ armor save" thing. One lasscanon to the face and your dead. Not to mention lasscanons and their equivalents aren't very rare in 5th to show up 2 or more times.

lol @ a suicide techmarine

Happygrunt wrote:

DooDoo wrote:Answer me this. Since mech BA have no room for speeders, where do you get your suicide melta from? Your troops? Why is that a good idea? Or, do you spend 205 pts on a 4 melta honor guard?

You dont USE a suicide unit. Its a waste of points, a waste of time, a waste of a slot and a waste of manpower. And why cant you take the speeders from FA? Mech armies generally are all loaded in transports, so there is no shortage of manpower. Razorbacks can be kitted to fill the void of Anti tank or anti-infantry if need be. So taking away ONE Ball pred for a MM landspeeder squadren (1-3, add to taste). With that set up, you have something that can pop down, shoot the tank you wanted dead, probably kill it, have the ability to fire again if you failed the first shot and have a higher survivability rate and kill rate then your tech marine, who has one shot no matter what, and after he shoots he is now in the middle of enemy territory with only a bolter. And the landspeeder costs the same price.

My army has exactly 0 suicide melta units, and runs fine. Sure, I have two melta guns, but they are in units DESIGNED to live. When building a list, you dont build with the intention of having half of it DIE by turn two. You make it be able to withstand punishment. I run a 5 man assault squad with a melta gun, plasma pistol, power weapon and priest. They have taken lots of shots and walked through it, have more then one shot and can capture an objective. Honestly, your idea is to give your opponent the benefit of taking away on of your elites slots, for MAYBE killing one of his tanks, which are showing up in non-meq books as squadrons of one to three now. And dont give me this "2+ armor save" thing. One lasscanon to the face and your dead. Not to mention lasscanons and their equivalents aren't very rare in 5th to show up 2 or more times.

Whilst he's trolling your responding to it badly, since he's mentioning the ol' 3 baal preds/3 vindi shenanigans, hence your FA's are 3 preds, no room for speeders

Also I gotta say your local meta must be odd if your example of "withstanding punishment" is a 5 man unit of marines with a priest... there are plenty of ways to get around FNP and marines armour, usually at the same time.

Jihallah wrote:

Happygrunt wrote:

DooDoo wrote:Answer me this. Since mech BA have no room for speeders, where do you get your suicide melta from? Your troops? Why is that a good idea? Or, do you spend 205 pts on a 4 melta honor guard?

You dont USE a suicide unit. Its a waste of points, a waste of time, a waste of a slot and a waste of manpower. And why cant you take the speeders from FA? Mech armies generally are all loaded in transports, so there is no shortage of manpower. Razorbacks can be kitted to fill the void of Anti tank or anti-infantry if need be. So taking away ONE Ball pred for a MM landspeeder squadren (1-3, add to taste). With that set up, you have something that can pop down, shoot the tank you wanted dead, probably kill it, have the ability to fire again if you failed the first shot and have a higher survivability rate and kill rate then your tech marine, who has one shot no matter what, and after he shoots he is now in the middle of enemy territory with only a bolter. And the landspeeder costs the same price.

My army has exactly 0 suicide melta units, and runs fine. Sure, I have two melta guns, but they are in units DESIGNED to live. When building a list, you dont build with the intention of having half of it DIE by turn two. You make it be able to withstand punishment. I run a 5 man assault squad with a melta gun, plasma pistol, power weapon and priest. They have taken lots of shots and walked through it, have more then one shot and can capture an objective. Honestly, your idea is to give your opponent the benefit of taking away on of your elites slots, for MAYBE killing one of his tanks, which are showing up in non-meq books as squadrons of one to three now. And dont give me this "2+ armor save" thing. One lasscanon to the face and your dead. Not to mention lasscanons and their equivalents aren't very rare in 5th to show up 2 or more times.

Whilst he's trolling your responding to it badly, since he's mentioning the ol' 3 baal preds/3 vindi shenanigans, hence your FA's are 3 preds, no room for speeders

Also I gotta say your local meta must be odd if your example of "withstanding punishment" is a 5 man unit of marines with a priest... there are plenty of ways to get around FNP and marines armour, usually at the same time.

I'm sorry, 3+/4+ can take a lot of shots before dieing. And my razorback example was showing that sometimes the 3 baal preds isnt the best idea, as you still need some sort of fast anti-tank. And you can still get your anti-horde fix without the Baals. And the reason I responded like this to the obvious troll is to try and stop some new, poor, inexperienced kid from thinking that the DS Tech Marine melta idea was a good one.

As I said before, the suicide techpriest isn't a terrible idea if you're running the 6x Predator/Vindie/Predator AV13 walls. Generally you'll have two (or more) elite slots left over regardless of army size, so if you don't want to max out on Land Raiders a one-shot throwaway melta guy or two could be worth having, as much for a disruption model as for vehicle-killing potential.

I've played a lot of suicide squads; 4th ed plasmavets, 5th ed melta stormies, termicide/Oblit drop, Lone Wolves even, and single throwaway models can be useful, even during killpoint scenarios, even against armies with no valuable mech targets because he can still get into a soft back-field squad and mix it up.

Are they the hidden gem of BA elites? No. But it seems like this originated on YTTH and the kneejerk reactions against its inclusion go beyond what I find logical or even coherent.

In case some of us didnt know, whats YTTH stand for? Is it another website?Maybe you should explain in case someone here didnt know what that was...

Also, to clarify, a techmarine cant take a melta gun, only a combi-melta. I am sure that it has been said many times, but I thought one more wouldn't hurt.

The major problem is it's only one shot, 33% of the time it will miss. Basically youre giving up a potential free kp for nothing in return. While 60 points might not sound like a lot it's could be better used elsewhere. BA is an army that can spam melta so it not like you really need it. Also does a razor spam army really must have 6 preds? No it doesn't. Drop one and take a squadron of two MM landspeeders. This is a much more viable choice plus you get two shots the turn the speeders arrive from reserve.

Happygrunt wrote:In case some of us didnt know, whats YTTH stand for? Is it another website?

Yes The Truth Hurts, the infamous Stelek's blogspot...



It is a silly place...

i understand your point sourclams (nice name too ) but i don't think this version of a suicide melta is very good. evenif i had an extra 60 points i wouldnt spend it on a unit that doesn't really work well as a suicide melta. the examples you mentioned are much more well trained then a model with one wound and one shot.. plasma vets can wound allocate away from the three plasmas and you get three rapid shots. stormies are the same deal with two meltas who can wound allocate. terminators have a 2+/5+ save and also can wound allocate and have a bunch of meltas...

i don't like a unit that doesn't really utilize its best abilities and also doesn't perform its function very well... sternguard would be better with a DP and combi-meltas...or a deep striking assault marine squad with a melta. these can be suicide squads that are much better at doing the function of a suicide squad, which isnt to shoot a melta gun, but to KILL a tank. you wnat to have a unit which has the power to almost always get rid of at least one tank, and hopefully survive to get rid of another or at least draw away enough firepower to save your other units.

this techpriest may have 60 points, but i could knock him out with a normal infantry squad rapid firing, or take a few plasma guns and get rid of him, this isn't getting rid of much of my firepower or forcing me to really change much of my plan of action.

Happygrunt wrote:In case some of us didnt know, whats YTTH stand for? Is it another website?Maybe you should explain in case someone here didnt know what that was...

Cough

Stop bashing doodoo for giving us entertainment =P

MinMax wrote:

Happygrunt wrote:In case some of us didnt know, whats YTTH stand for? Is it another website?Maybe you should explain in case someone here didnt know what that was...

Cough

Sorry, thought it might be a term here on the good old dakke. Carry one.