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Doomsdave wrote:

Vaktathi wrote:

Doomsdave wrote:I don't particularly care about the current incarnation of SW's; but how can anyone complain about their fluff in a universe where Orks can exist. It's inconceivable that anything in the SW codex can offend reason more than the slowed concept of Orks in space.

I know this is Dakka, so let the flaming begin.

It just had to be said.

Because the Orks aren't taking themselves seriously. Everything about the Orks is upfront with its sillyness in a way that fits the setting, it's not trying to portray its sillyness as anything but sillyness. The SW's try to pass off the same sillyness as "Serious GRIMDARK Hero" stuff, so it comes off looking like bad internet fanfic.

Fair enough. I see the 40K universe as one big saturday morning cartoon (populated by cardboard cut-outs for "characters") designed to sell "action figures" anyway. And that's OK & can be fun. It just seems silly to demand serious and thoughtful fluff from a universe that can contain Orks.

I like orks but then again I'm a pretty silly guy. thier fluff makes sense in its own orky way... SW i can't comment on thier fluff... heck i could care less abotu most fluff its amusing btu I mostly want to play the game and the reason i dislike space wolves is they are overpowered/unbalanced/undercosted

the examples are mostly already up in this thread for the over powered and undercosted

I'd liek to throw one more hat into the ring with the unbalanced... one psychic power.. JotWW is jsut too effective against some armies. I'll use orks as the example... 30 orks w/ nob bp and pk JoTWW the nob... you pass and of coarse it goes thorugh and knocks out the nob... now i have a few orks and hte nob goen and even if my orks get the attack off they will eb counter attackesd and they will be wiped out since they have no way of getting through the power armor without a pk

They are smelly, loud and have no regard for tactics... (I play Dark Angels and have a friend who plays Space Wolves, hilarity always ensues)

In all honesty, I have nothing against them, kinda like the whole Norse feel they have.

lledwey wrote:

Grimtuff wrote:One will only be getting the more than 18 ML shots if you add Wolf Guard with Cyclones to the LF... Thus giving up an Elite slot.

Yeah, except that the SW player can take a Wolf Guard unit with the Cyclone terminator AND the melta/fist 'sergeants' in one unit, and then split them among the squads. Thus NOT giving up an Elite slot.

What the hell are you talking about? You take WG, you use up an Elite slot. Simples. Regardless of if the unit no longer exists due to them splitting up the Elite slot is still used as WG are assigned during deployment, not during army list creation.

Grimtuff wrote:

Ravenous D wrote:Hell compare a wolf guard with a fist/combi melta vs the same armed vanilla sgt variant:

Wolf guard - 43pts (+counter attack and acute senses)
Vanilla - 61pts

Oh no I give up an elite slot that I wasnt going to fill anyway. Most of the space wolf elites are underwhelming, unless you want some riflemen dreads in there to compliment the 20+ missile shots.

One will only be getting the more than 18 ML shots if you add Wolf Guard with Cyclones to the LF... Thus giving up an Elite slot.

3 Typhoons, the most underrated fast attack option. So take your facepalm and with a giraffe.

What I meant, grimtuff, is that youre using that slot already because of the wolf guard for your troop squads. Therefore, taking the CML guy doesn't actually use up another slot; you were using it anyway.

iproxtaco wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:

Botten3 wrote:Please explain your reasoning clearly, I would like to hear your reasoning.

I like them?

But I think it is generally because they have the most marines ( around 12.000 ), bigger fleet ( even from the Segmentum fleet ), some kind of weird faith ( they even battle SoB because of it ) and because they are sometimes dickheads... ( they are compared to furies to )

But come on guys...how can someone hate, crazy, drunk space vikings? They are pure awesome...

They don't number around 12,000 and their fleet is not bigger than the Segmentum Fleet.

actually they do number round 12,000 sorry dude.

Grey elder wrote:actually they do number round 12,000 sorry dude.

By all means, provide evidence that proves this.

Void__Dragon wrote:

Grey elder wrote:actually they do number round 12,000 sorry dude.

By all means, provide evidence that proves this.

Group Pic or it didn't happen.

Grey elder wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:

Botten3 wrote:Please explain your reasoning clearly, I would like to hear your reasoning.

I like them?

But I think it is generally because they have the most marines ( around 12.000 ), bigger fleet ( even from the Segmentum fleet ), some kind of weird faith ( they even battle SoB because of it ) and because they are sometimes dickheads... ( they are compared to furies to )

But come on guys...how can someone hate, crazy, drunk space vikings? They are pure awesome...

They don't number around 12,000 and their fleet is not bigger than the Segmentum Fleet.

actually they do number round 12,000 sorry dude.

The current codex says that Ragnar's company at about 200 strong is the second largest. If we assume the other companies are an average of say, 150 strong to be generous, and that Grimnar's is 300 strong, that puts us at exactly 2000 Space Wolves.

G00fySmiley wrote:

Doomsdave wrote:

Vaktathi wrote:

Doomsdave wrote:It's inconceivable that anything in the SW codex can offend reason more than the slowed concept of Orks in space.

Because the Orks aren't taking themselves seriously. Everything about the Orks is upfront with its sillyness in a way that fits the setting.

It just seems silly to demand serious and thoughtful fluff from a universe that can contain Orks.

I like orks but then again I'm a pretty silly guy.

I don't see orks as "silly" at all. They fulfill the role of the barbarians, living only too fight. Using ramshackle vehicles to close the distance, guns chosen for their noise rather than effectiveness, cc weapons that could cleave a man in half. Silly indeed.



Anyway, on the space wolves. The biggest thing I dislike would have to be people referring to them as 'Space Puppies'. Seriously? is it meant to be funny?

People calling them 'crazy drunk space vikings' and using that as an excuse too like them.

1. Fluff (as represented in Horus Heresy). In short, they're hypocritical bullies.

2. Codex power. It's a shame because there are a lot of well-implemented flavourful units, but Kelly clearly undercosted units in at least four of the FoC sections (rune priests, grey hunters, thunderwolves, longfangs) leading inevitably to too many cheesy cookie-cutter lists.

That said, I'm still happier to see any iteration of the Wolves across the table than chimera-spam or blood angels' razor/predator spam.

Grey elder wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:

Botten3 wrote:Please explain your reasoning clearly, I would like to hear your reasoning.

I like them?

But I think it is generally because they have the most marines ( around 12.000 ), bigger fleet ( even from the Segmentum fleet ), some kind of weird faith ( they even battle SoB because of it ) and because they are sometimes dickheads... ( they are compared to furies to )

But come on guys...how can someone hate, crazy, drunk space vikings? They are pure awesome...

They don't number around 12,000 and their fleet is not bigger than the Segmentum Fleet.

actually they do number round 12,000 sorry dude.

No, they do not. The second largest Great Company, Blackmane's IIIRC, numbers around 200, this is either in Index Astartes or your own fething codex.

Drunken space vikings sounds are pretty stupid. No offense to players or fans.