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starraptor wrote:I'm just going to apoligise (sorry for my spelling) if I sounded judgemental. The thing is I know Tau suck at close combat that doesn't make marine good at close combat though. And when you have 183 plus models firing at maybe 50 yes Orks out shoot you. And of course TH/SS are Great close combat unit but thats 1 unit in the entire codex. Sorry if I got off topic

NP, we all get off topic now and then

@ the terminator thing tho, they are the only GREAT non-HQ non dread CC unit, but there are a lot of really good ones. Normal termies are still good at CC, Assault marines are good at CC, Sergeants are good at CC, Vanguard vets are good at CC etc.


Back on topic, a pet peeve of mine is when players bring too few dice. Ork player with 3000 pts and five dice=not fun.

People who pretend to not be concentrating when you make a good roll, so you have to roll it again; people who actually aren't concentrating and challenge myself and the other spectators who have just tried to tell him that he needs to take a few saves, or that his dreadnought got blown up, and it ends up that I have to re-roll everything.

And sore winners, the ones who have to go around shouting and whooping about how they killed ABC or how XYZ died. I'm fine with a 'yes!' or an arm pump, but leaping around the store like a 7-year old on a sugar high, pestering everyone and telling them what happened regardless of whether or not they're interested, is just taking the piss.

Amazing, I got unlucky and my slann blew himself up, failing rolls to save him on 2+s, on the second turn of the game. Congratulations, you killed my Chaos Knights. Will you stop acting like you stopped the Storm of Chaos using a halberdier and a gnoblar and get on with the game please?

Those red measuring sticks you get in the AOBR set i hate them especially when some one (accidentlys) pre measures with them.

I normally only play with friends so don't really get any problems.

Although I did have a game at Warhammer World this weekend when a blue shirt decided to try and out "WAGHH" a gamer. They obviously knew each and just stared each other in the face and shout at the top of their voices causing the whole place to silence.

This kinda gak is what gives gamers a stupid name.

If you're on this message board then epic fail to you Sir.

gr1m_dan wrote:I normally only play with friends so don't really get any problems.

Although I did have a game at Warhammer World this weekend when a blue shirt decided to try and out "WAGHH" a gamer. They obviously knew each and just stared each other in the face and shout at the top of their voices causing the whole place to silence.

This kinda gak is what gives gamers a stupid name.

If you're on this message board then epic fail to you Sir.

They probably thought it was really funny... the same kind of guy who laughs at the top of his lungs when remembering some ork fluff he read... sigh

WAAAAAAAAAAAGG!


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H!

That and blood for the blood god. It's not enough I have to see the damn phrase in the fluff so many times, but I have to hear idiots screaming it in the middle of a crowded mall. Yeah, makes me want to hide my head from onlookers and ask myself why am I even here.

I played a scenario game today and a guy came up and started saying we were playing it wrong, that jobs shouldn't be used like that and proceeded to start picking up models like he owned the place. If people ask to look at my models, I will happily allow it but don't approach the table and start grabbing my stuff. That's a great way to get dread socked.

-cgmckenzie

cgmckenzie wrote:I played a scenario game today and a guy came up and started saying we were playing it wrong, that jobs shouldn't be used like that and proceeded to start picking up models like he owned the place. If people ask to look at my models, I will happily allow it but don't approach the table and start grabbing my stuff. That's a great way to get dread socked.

-cgmckenzie

Ya, touching my stuff with out my permission is not ok with me, and I will say something about it!

Another thing that annoys me are braggarts. I'm happy your mommy bought you a Titan, some of us have bills to pay!

AustonT wrote:Simple math proves out Orks cannot outshooot marines Orks Bs is what 2? I'm so lazy and certain you're wrong I wont even reach above my desk to check. Then they have to wound, then the SM player has armor saves.
Orks on the recieving end of just bolters get hit more than 50% wounded around the same And mostly don't get saves.
I assume we are talking about a Boyz horde here.

Actually its the other way around - point for point boyz outshoot marines, mainly because they are essentially 18" stormbolters, meaning Orks can advance and fire at full effect, or retreat the same, forcing the marines to either move and forgo shooting or stay static and get shredded.

This assumes youre actually playing a game, and therefore have some form of cover - an Ork in 4+ cover is 40% of the cost for only 1/6th less durability

Hi all.
My main pet peeve is when players keep calling strategic chioces 'tactics'.

Deployment options are strategic, army list chioces are strategic.

40k is a strategy heavy game.Play it and enjoy the strategy , but PLEASE stop calling strategy ' tactics'.

(Tactics are in game chioces,eg target selection, deciding not to move so you can use a heavy weapon, etc.)

nosferatu1001 wrote:

AustonT wrote:Simple math proves out Orks cannot outshooot marines Orks Bs is what 2? I'm so lazy and certain you're wrong I wont even reach above my desk to check. Then they have to wound, then the SM player has armor saves.
Orks on the recieving end of just bolters get hit more than 50% wounded around the same And mostly don't get saves.
I assume we are talking about a Boyz horde here.

Actually its the other way around - point for point boyz outshoot marines, mainly because they are essentially 18" stormbolters, meaning Orks can advance and fire at full effect, or retreat the same, forcing the marines to either move and forgo shooting or stay static and get shredded.

This assumes youre actually playing a game, and therefore have some form of cover - an Ork in 4+ cover is 40% of the cost for only 1/6th less durability

You are asserting two things that do not go hand in hand. Advancing and staying in cover. If a SM player allows Orks to take cover, negating a large part of thier weakness he deserves to lose that firefight. Since it's far more likely that an Ork mob will not be in cover after advancing, Orks on the offense are at a serious disadvantage. If you emplace your boys in a static defense (and I defy you to find room to put 150 boyz in cover) as a sort of Green gunline, I can only assume that any SM player would just go around and attack to boys not in cover.
It's not that you don't have a point, you do. But 40k is a situational game. On an open field with no terrain comparing armies isn't fair either. But assuming that you will ALWAYS have cover, and depending on it doesn't make sense either.

People who make soft accusations of cheating when you are winning. Generally this entails asking to borrow your codex so they can double check everything rule you have been playing, and recalculate your points, because the only reason that they could be loosing this badly is that you are cheating. Funny how the rules and points added up right until he got whipped in that multiple assault involving half his army.

That's not ver fair, well ok it is but...I ask to see unit entries in newer codexes I dont own. I own almost every codex but skipped out on DE and GK. I asked to see a couple entries after a doubles game after that book was released. Not cuz I thought he was cheating (great player, friendly, etc) but because he laid the rape stick to half my army in one turn... I wanted to know what to stay away from.

When my opponent knows the rules so little that he tries to tell me that it's illegal to multi-assault with my seer council...

Rather irritating that I have to pull out the rulebook for almost every game and show the EXACT same thing.

Iranna.

Auston - what, because cheap grots dont exist? Or a line of 30 boys screening every single shooting unit you have behind them?

I find with 25% cover that you are more likely to be in cover than not.

Try it, run the maths, and note that sheer volume of fire (60 shots basic vs 9) does you in.

AustonT wrote:That's not ver fair, well ok it is but...I ask to see unit entries in newer codexes I dont own. I own almost every codex but skipped out on DE and GK. I asked to see a couple entries after a doubles game after that book was released. Not cuz I thought he was cheating (great player, friendly, etc) but because he laid the rape stick to half my army in one turn... I wanted to know what to stay away from.

You see, what I was talking about wasn't asking to see a few unit entries, but when halfway through the game the opponent asks for your codex, takes the copy of your army list you handed him, and a calculator and starts adding with a scowl. Then when he discovers he can't get you DQ'ed for an illegal list, goes over every special rule you've been using looking for loopholes. It dramatically slows down that game and reeks of bad sportsmanship. It's a peeve that's fresh in my mind due to it happening at two different events this summer.

Another peeve, when someone decided to knock your score for comp reasons at a non comp event, "you were a great sport throughout the game, and even made some intentional bad mistakes to actually make a game of this, but I'm still going to mark down your sports score because I think that unit is too powerful at this points level, and there is no comp."

AlexGrannell wrote:I hate it when people judge me and my army before I even get them out. I am only 14 but have been playing for nearly 7 years, So I know my rules and how to play but yet because I am only a child they assume I will pull out grey vanilla marines. Its a nice surprise to them because I show them my army list and shake their hand, pull out my fully painted DoA Blood Angels. The worst is when someone just ignores you or belittles you because your only a child, I have made many friends with the adults who go to my local shop but there is always one who refuses to play me. It really hurts my confidence and makes me wary to talk to or ask and adult to play, I always try to make a good impression but it never helps.

For me nothing matters but the results on the tabletop. I've seen some kids with an amazing tactical sense and plenty of adults that couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag while wearing terminator armor. Age also doesn't equate to maturity. And as with tactical sense I've seen plenty of kids mature beyond their years and many adults who act like they never left Junior High School.

In our recent FoW league one of the players was a new player and all of 10 or 11 years old. Early on we helped him learn tactics for his army, but even then he was still a fun opponent to have a game with because he was so enthusiastic about the whole concept. He ended up 5th out of about 18 in the league and we told him that with that kind of showing he is on his own next league and isn't getting any help!

Either way you can't base your own confidence and good feelings on other people. Many people just don't deal well in social situations. Many are intimidated by the most insignificant things. Many find that they only way they feel good is making others look bad. Kind of hard to do that when the 14 year old you were dissing is now stomping your army firmly into the ground. Ask adults to play. If you get attitude move on to someone else. Eventually you will find someone who will happily play you and won't prejudge you.

Skriker


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Necroshea wrote:That and blood for the blood god. It's not enough I have to see the damn phrase in the fluff so many times, but I have to hear idiots screaming it in the middle of a crowded mall. Yeah, makes me want to hide my head from onlookers and ask myself why am I even here.

Why?? They are being idiots, not you. Who cares if total strangers paint you with the same brush. You will probably never see them again in your life anyway, and they are probably at the mall for equally silly, but maybe only slightly more socially acceptable reasons than you...

Skriker

People who don't have fun playing the game and who don't want their opponents to have fun either. I can't imagine why they persist.

AlexGrannell wrote:I hate it when people judge me and my army before I even get them out. I am only 14 but have been playing for nearly 7 years, So I know my rules and how to play but yet because I am only a child they assume I will pull out grey vanilla marines. Its a nice surprise to them because I show them my army list and shake their hand, pull out my fully painted DoA Blood Angels. The worst is when someone just ignores you or belittles you because your only a child, I have made many friends with the adults who go to my local shop but there is always one who refuses to play me. It really hurts my confidence and makes me wary to talk to or ask and adult to play, I always try to make a good impression but it never helps.

Don't let people discourage you. Who cares if your 14, you like the game and you play whatever you like. If people treat you like crap ask them when they started playing. Ask them how they felt when they were knew. When I was younger and played DE I ran into that once and the guy got chewed out by other players. Those people you play with sound immature and are probably just scared they might get steam rolled by a 14 year old, which is not something to be embarrased about anyways.

People who say your army is overpowered and then grab you codex without permission and flick through it only to see they are wrong

On a friendly game at me FLGS, I asked another player if I could use a custom rule for my IG, which was a special order for squads at 50% strength. This order gives them the furious charge rule, and forces them to assault the nearest possible unit. He was fine with it, and so the game went on normally. He drop pods a squad of tac marines in front of my gunline, and guns down all but 4 of my guardsmen. I pass the leadership check, then roll the special order which I pass. They charge the tac squad, and end up killing 3 of them before being eliminated. The game continues, and I end up winning. He then immediately goes on a rant on how I used a "stupid cheating made up rule!" that made it unfair for him. I even explained it to him before game.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Auston - what, because cheap grots dont exist? Or a line of 30 boys screening every single shooting unit you have behind them?

I find with 25% cover that you are more likely to be in cover than not.

Try it, run the maths, and note that sheer volume of fire (60 shots basic vs 9) does you in.

Unless the orks are taking cover more than 18" away and less than 24" away.

I think my biggest peeve when a new book comes out and a player that has played said army starts complaining about it before he even fields an army with it. Well my X got hosed and "man my Y won't work anymore" or it figures that my favorite unit is worthless now. Sheeze just field them and enjoy yourself. There is usually some ryhme and reason the rules were changed.

moom241 wrote:On a friendly game at me FLGS, I asked another player if I could use a custom rule for my IG, which was a special order for squads at 50% strength. This order gives them the furious charge rule, and forces them to assault the nearest possible unit. He was fine with it, and so the game went on normally. He drop pods a squad of tac marines in front of my gunline, and guns down all but 4 of my guardsmen. I pass the leadership check, then roll the special order which I pass. They charge the tac squad, and end up killing 3 of them before being eliminated. The game continues, and I end up winning. He then immediately goes on a rant on how I used a "stupid cheating made up rule!" that made it unfair for him. I even explained it to him before game.

Especially stupid since he could have said no...

I ran into something similar once, from the other side. A kid I was playing (12 or so, though that is not super important) asked If he could use a special upgrade for his IG sergeant that gives his +1 BS for a small point increase (5pts or something like that) and then he resolved each and every hit from all his models at BS4 for the entirety of the game, only have paid +5pts once. When I asked him why he insisted on breaking the game, he said "You can't prove that my rule was only for the one sergeant, they won't believe you" When I brought over an employee, guess who was believed? Score one for honesty.


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AzureDeath wrote:I think my biggest peeve when a new book comes out and a player that has played said army starts complaining about it before he even fields an army with it. Well my X got hosed and "man my Y won't work anymore" or it figures that my favorite unit is worthless now. Sheeze just field them and enjoy yourself. There is usually some ryhme and reason the rules were changed.

I know right? If the changes are radical enough to make one strategy that was previously viable useless, then adopt another strategy. And have fun, doesn't matter if you win except in tournys.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Auston - what, because cheap grots dont exist? Or a line of 30 boys screening every single shooting unit you have behind them?

I find with 25% cover that you are more likely to be in cover than not.

Try it, run the maths, and note that sheer volume of fire (60 shots basic vs 9) does you in.

I did sit here and math it out. Orks lose the same number without cover to marines, but attrition is a bitch. 300 boys can outshoot 105 TSM with just bolters (1800 points). I stand corrected and withdraw my rather arrogant statement.

#1: Whining about anything. Yes, I see that your tervigon quit making gaunts on turn 1. It sucks that you don't get more "free" models, move on.

#2: Trying something funny with the dice.
a) quickly picking up the "hits" while leaving "misses" on the table.
b) not actually shaking them, just doing a little flip or dropping them straight.
c) Dice do NOT get cover. Please roll them in the open. That said, if I'm not paying attention that's my problem and I deserve whatever happens.
d) *minor* rolling the dice off of the table. Come on, it's a pretty big surface...

#3: Not being prepared to play. No written list, No codex, No game.

#4: Opponent constantly distracted. An example is asking me to reroll something that happened in the open and they had decided to turn away while my turn was going.

#5: An unknown third party offering advice. Please wait until it's over, I really don't care how you'd play it right now. In the post game, sure bring it on.

#6: An unknown party picking up one of my models. I'll be happy to let you look them over, just ask first.

I once faced one opponent, a young Ork player, who insisted that his Ork Boyz had a 5 up Invunerable save. Turns out he didn't even have the Codex.

I used to play a kid who ran Orks, who would measure each boy as he moved them. Man that movement phase takes forever.

Everyone at the store had the same trouble, and I think we as a whole finally broke him of the habit.

I won a painting contest at my FLGS, and left my beautiful railhead in the display case in the store, because I can always buy another, and I like the idea of people who don't know where to start with their painting being able to get some ideas when I am not around to help (I like to help people with their painting in my FLGS)