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im2randomghgh wrote:

purplefood wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

purplefood wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

purplefood wrote:I kinda like all of them...
The only ones that annoy me a little bit are the Tau and that's only because of their naivety. Even then it's not that annoying because of how their fluff seems to be going.

I don't see it as naivety so much as inexperience. Because the mistakes they're making are mistakes that are to be expected. If they were illogical courses of action, then I would consider it naive.

Naivety is lack of experience...

When I think of naive I think more of a lack of wisdom or judgement based on inexperience, rather than inexperience in and of itself

It was their first encounter with chaos correct?
They had a lack of wisdom and judgement due to their inexperience with chaos.
It's an understandable mistake but it is them being naive.

What lack of wisdom did they have?

They didn't know Slannesh is a chaos god. They therefore assumed he was the immediate commander of the local chaos forces.

purplefood wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

purplefood wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

purplefood wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

purplefood wrote:I kinda like all of them...
The only ones that annoy me a little bit are the Tau and that's only because of their naivety. Even then it's not that annoying because of how their fluff seems to be going.

I don't see it as naivety so much as inexperience. Because the mistakes they're making are mistakes that are to be expected. If they were illogical courses of action, then I would consider it naive.

Naivety is lack of experience...

When I think of naive I think more of a lack of wisdom or judgement based on inexperience, rather than inexperience in and of itself

It was their first encounter with chaos correct?
They had a lack of wisdom and judgement due to their inexperience with chaos.
It's an understandable mistake but it is them being naive.

What lack of wisdom did they have?

They didn't know Slannesh is a chaos god. They therefore assumed he was the immediate commander of the local chaos forces.

What the hell does that have to do with wisdom??? That is, at the VERY BEST, a lack of intelligence jks.

seriously tho, it has nothing to do with wisdom.

im2randomghgh wrote:

purplefood wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

purplefood wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

purplefood wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

purplefood wrote:I kinda like all of them...
The only ones that annoy me a little bit are the Tau and that's only because of their naivety. Even then it's not that annoying because of how their fluff seems to be going.

I don't see it as naivety so much as inexperience. Because the mistakes they're making are mistakes that are to be expected. If they were illogical courses of action, then I would consider it naive.

Naivety is lack of experience...

When I think of naive I think more of a lack of wisdom or judgement based on inexperience, rather than inexperience in and of itself

It was their first encounter with chaos correct?
They had a lack of wisdom and judgement due to their inexperience with chaos.
It's an understandable mistake but it is them being naive.

What lack of wisdom did they have?

They didn't know Slannesh is a chaos god. They therefore assumed he was the immediate commander of the local chaos forces.

What the hell does that have to do with wisdom??? That is, at the VERY BEST, a lack of intelligence jks.

seriously tho, it has nothing to do with wisdom.

having knowledge or information as to facts, circumstances, etc.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/wise
They are naive. It's a character flaw. It's a good thing.

im2randomghgh wrote:

purplefood wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

purplefood wrote:I kinda like all of them...
The only ones that annoy me a little bit are the Tau and that's only because of their naievity. Even then it's not that annoying because of how their fluff seems to be going.

I don't see it as naivety so much as inexperience. Because the mistakes they're making are mistakes that are to be expected. If they were illogical courses of action, then I would consider it naive.

Naievity is lack of experience...

When I think of naive I think more of a lack of wisdom or judgement based on inexperience, rather than inexperience in and of itself

Don't confuse them. Naiveity is lack of experience, Ignorence is Bliss you might say.

Stupidity is doing something irrational or inspite of knowledge.



the Tau have a hefty does of both.

When they tried to assimilate Orks into the Greater Good, that was Naiveity. When they trusted the Dark Eldar, that was Stupidity. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

The Tau got burned with the Orks and they didn't think to apply said knowledge to any other races they encountered. They assume each race is a blank slate when all the major races are in direct competition with each other.

Right now Space Marines because in my area that is practically the only army you can play against
And it annoys the hell out of me

Wow, I post something, forget about it for a couple weeks, and when I come back there are seven pages of discussion. That' s a nice surprise.

Anyways, I wanted to add that in addition to being annoyed by the Ad Mech, I really can't stand the Space Wolfs. Let's ignore how much I hate their codex and stupid op rules, and just examine their fluff. I'm reading through the Horus Heresy book "A Thousand Sons". As far as I can tell, the Space Wolfs are not only hypocrites, but also almost directly responsible for the fall of the Thousand Sons legion to chaos. Lets look at those two things. Firstly, they are hypocrites 'cause they argue that all psykers should be done away with, and the Thousand Sons are traitors for still using psykers. But its totally okay for the Space Wolfs to have their 'rune priests'. I think Mangus even points this out to Russ who says something like 'no, rune priests are different 'cause their power comes from the Fenris, not the warp' or something like that. HYPOCRITES!. Secondly, if they hadn't have pushed the whole anti psyker thing (again, huge hypocrites about that) would Mangus have been able to warn the Emperor through more traditional means of communication rather then and basically screwing all of the Emperor's plans up?

I really dislike space wolfs. The only time I'm happy to see someone playing space wolfs is when its a two vs two battle, and my team mate is rolling SW. It usually makes for a really easy game.

Someone here likened Space Wolves to Space Hipsters. The analogy was pretty spot-on.

I believe it went something like: "Psykers are bad, we don't use them and neither should you. Our Rune Priests use the natural cycles of life and death on Fenris. You've probably never heard of it..."

But yeah, they aren't so much hypocritical in that regard as they are completely in denial or just hopelessly ignorant.

Void__Dragon wrote:Someone here likened Space Wolves to Space Hipsters. The analogy was pretty spot-on.

I believe it went something like: "Psykers are bad, we don't use them and neither should you. Our Rune Priests use the natural cycles of life and death on Fenris. You've probably never heard of it..."

But yeah, they aren't so much hypocritical in that regard as they are completely in denial or just hopelessly ignorant.

but that massive ignorance is their greatest strength. they never doubt their ways and they will never change them. they have all the answers to their own world and a singular will to punish that which does not fit into those ideals. that makes them some of the greatest fighters the emperor has at his disposal. in 40k ignorance is a virtue.

English Assassin wrote:The Adeptus Mechanicus, like the Administratum and (to an extent) the Ecclesiarchy are doomed to be protrayed as annoyances - usually secondary ones - because they have no tabletop armies, and there is thus no playerbase to whom to appeal (or to avoid offending) by writing them as heroic or competent.

:: ahem ::

Somebody needs to read up on Sisters of Battle.

Back on topic, I guess it'd have to be the Inquisition in general. They're just such meanieheads in the way they go about their business, torturing innocents and whatnot. Also, they didn't give me any cookies.

Orks. I hate Orks. I hate their look, I hate their fluff, I hate their play style. There isn't anything that I like about Orks, I would be a far happier person if they were removed from 40k altogether, and never seen again.
I don't believe they have any place in the setting, and are just here for comedic relief. While comedic relief is ok, when there is an entire race/faction based around it, I start to get annoyed. Nothing about their codex can be taken seriously.
Now, the concept itself is an excellent one, I just think that the naming and fluff is all wrong. Instead of Orks, come up with something original, like EVERY other race in the game. Give them a name from the setting, and don't import one from virtually every other fantasy/sci-fi game in existence. Unit names are ridiculous as well. Boyz. Seriously? And spelling everything as wrong as possible just makes it worse.
I like the idea of an unstoppable horde of war loving monsters, that's cool, but they need to be taken seriously. Come up with some truly original names, spell them correctly, and don't try as hard as you can to make the entire faction look like it was created by a team of five year olds.

Flaming_Spider wrote:Orks. I hate Orks. I hate their look, I hate their fluff, I hate their play style. There isn't anything that I like about Orks, I would be a far happier person if they were removed from 40k altogether, and never seen again.
I don't believe they have any place in the setting, and are just here for comedic relief. While comedic relief is ok, when there is an entire race/faction based around it, I start to get annoyed. Nothing about their codex can be taken seriously.
Now, the concept itself is an excellent one, I just think that the naming and fluff is all wrong. Instead of Orks, come up with something original, like EVERY other race in the game. Give them a name from the setting, and don't import one from virtually every other fantasy/sci-fi game in existence. Unit names are ridiculous as well. Boyz. Seriously? And spelling everything as wrong as possible just makes it worse.
I like the idea of an unstoppable horde of war loving monsters, that's cool, but they need to be taken seriously. Come up with some truly original names, spell them correctly, and don't try as hard as you can to make the entire faction look like it was created by a team of five year olds.

I used to think this. Then I played with them. I now have named every Nob and up in my army. Even my grot orderly has a name. I love them that much.

KilroyKiljoy wrote:

Flaming_Spider wrote:Orks. I hate Orks. I hate their look, I hate their fluff, I hate their play style. There isn't anything that I like about Orks, I would be a far happier person if they were removed from 40k altogether, and never seen again.
I don't believe they have any place in the setting, and are just here for comedic relief. While comedic relief is ok, when there is an entire race/faction based around it, I start to get annoyed. Nothing about their codex can be taken seriously.
Now, the concept itself is an excellent one, I just think that the naming and fluff is all wrong. Instead of Orks, come up with something original, like EVERY other race in the game. Give them a name from the setting, and don't import one from virtually every other fantasy/sci-fi game in existence. Unit names are ridiculous as well. Boyz. Seriously? And spelling everything as wrong as possible just makes it worse.
I like the idea of an unstoppable horde of war loving monsters, that's cool, but they need to be taken seriously. Come up with some truly original names, spell them correctly, and don't try as hard as you can to make the entire faction look like it was created by a team of five year olds.

I used to think this. Then I played with them. I now have named every Nob and up in my army. Even my grot orderly has a name. I love them that much.

I have played them, had a 2000 point army, but I could not get over the "HURR DURR" nature of the codex.

partly blood angels and necrons when they made a partial alliance, its just the blood angels had almost no purpose in that, the necrons would kill everything whenever either the nids or BA came into view without care until there ALL dead, not just the nids, also I generally dont like tau, its like the kid at school so desperate for friends, asks every person if they want to be friends, or races in this case, I also interpret that on fanatical christianity as in, do as I say or I'll hit you approach.

so yeah, tau mostly, but just that piece of background, it has no place of respect in my book, and should never have been written.

IXBEHEMOTHXI wrote:partly blood angels and necrons when they made a partial alliance, its just the blood angels had almost no purpose in that, the necrons would kill everything whenever either the nids or BA came into view without care until there ALL dead, not just the nids, also I generally dont like tau, its like the kid at school so desperate for friends, asks every person if they want to be friends, or races in this case, I also interpret that on fanatical christianity as in, do as I say or I'll hit you approach.

so yeah, tau mostly, but just that piece of background, it has no place of respect in my book, and should never have been written.

We're all upset over it, but all we can do is ignore it and move on. And then rage when the Necron 'Dex comes out with even worse fluff.

Oh yeah, Its not the major reason BA and cron fluff gets to me, its just a good example of how you can have an awsome sounding army, and just write a piece of crap to ruin a rather major part of backstory, so its not really to do with the army itself, its more or less how GW let that get published, it just thoughtless and out of context to the rest of the backstory for the BA.

Flaming_Spider wrote:Orks. I hate Orks. I hate their look, I hate their fluff, I hate their play style. There isn't anything that I like about Orks, I would be a far happier person if they were removed from 40k altogether, and never seen again.
I don't believe they have any place in the setting, and are just here for comedic relief. While comedic relief is ok, when there is an entire race/faction based around it, I start to get annoyed. Nothing about their codex can be taken seriously.
Now, the concept itself is an excellent one, I just think that the naming and fluff is all wrong. Instead of Orks, come up with something original, like EVERY other race in the game. Give them a name from the setting, and don't import one from virtually every other fantasy/sci-fi game in existence. Unit names are ridiculous as well. Boyz. Seriously? And spelling everything as wrong as possible just makes it worse.
I like the idea of an unstoppable horde of war loving monsters, that's cool, but they need to be taken seriously. Come up with some truly original names, spell them correctly, and don't try as hard as you can to make the entire faction look like it was created by a team of five year olds.

If you don't get Orks, then you don't get 40k. They're one of the few things still relatively true to the original source material as the game has evolved, and provide some often much needed humbling to many factions in the game.

And in case you haven't noticed, 40k is practically nothing *but* importations from everything else. We have Space C'thulu's, Space Knights, Space Elves (yes, Eldar were called that once), HR Geiger Aliens, Space Werewolves, etc. 40k is a Fantasy-In-SPAAAAAAAAAACE game, always has been. There's humongous importations of stuff from Dune, Starship Troopers, C'thulu mythos, Star Wars, Age of Sail stuff, Conan, etc.

Tyranids are generally less HR Geiger and more Heinlein, with the exception of the Genestealers and that Parasitic rippers guy from the new codex.

who are the space cthulus, Necrons?

CthuluIsSpy wrote:who are the space cthulus, Necrons?

I'd say that Chaos is more of a Lovecraftian entity then Necrons.

Coolyo294 wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:who are the space cthulus, Necrons?

I'd say that Chaos is more of a Lovecraftian entity then Necrons.

what about the C'tan? They're likened to the mythos quite often, it seems.

Vaktathi wrote:

Flaming_Spider wrote:Orks. I hate Orks. I hate their look, I hate their fluff, I hate their play style. There isn't anything that I like about Orks, I would be a far happier person if they were removed from 40k altogether, and never seen again.
I don't believe they have any place in the setting, and are just here for comedic relief. While comedic relief is ok, when there is an entire race/faction based around it, I start to get annoyed. Nothing about their codex can be taken seriously.
Now, the concept itself is an excellent one, I just think that the naming and fluff is all wrong. Instead of Orks, come up with something original, like EVERY other race in the game. Give them a name from the setting, and don't import one from virtually every other fantasy/sci-fi game in existence. Unit names are ridiculous as well. Boyz. Seriously? And spelling everything as wrong as possible just makes it worse.
I like the idea of an unstoppable horde of war loving monsters, that's cool, but they need to be taken seriously. Come up with some truly original names, spell them correctly, and don't try as hard as you can to make the entire faction look like it was created by a team of five year olds.

If you don't get Orks, then you don't get 40k. They're one of the few things still relatively true to the original source material as the game has evolved, and provide some often much needed humbling to many factions in the game.

And in case you haven't noticed, 40k is practically nothing *but* importations from everything else. We have Space C'thulu's, Space Knights, Space Elves (yes, Eldar were called that once), HR Geiger Aliens, Space Werewolves, etc. 40k is a Fantasy-In-SPAAAAAAAAAACE game, always has been. There's humongous importations of stuff from Dune, Starship Troopers, C'thulu mythos, Star Wars, Age of Sail stuff, Conan, etc.

while everything may be imported, they are not named as such. And Orks are the only race that has retained this nonsense.

Flaming_Spider wrote:

Vaktathi wrote:

Flaming_Spider wrote:Orks. I hate Orks. I hate their look, I hate their fluff, I hate their play style. There isn't anything that I like about Orks, I would be a far happier person if they were removed from 40k altogether, and never seen again.
I don't believe they have any place in the setting, and are just here for comedic relief. While comedic relief is ok, when there is an entire race/faction based around it, I start to get annoyed. Nothing about their codex can be taken seriously.
Now, the concept itself is an excellent one, I just think that the naming and fluff is all wrong. Instead of Orks, come up with something original, like EVERY other race in the game. Give them a name from the setting, and don't import one from virtually every other fantasy/sci-fi game in existence. Unit names are ridiculous as well. Boyz. Seriously? And spelling everything as wrong as possible just makes it worse.
I like the idea of an unstoppable horde of war loving monsters, that's cool, but they need to be taken seriously. Come up with some truly original names, spell them correctly, and don't try as hard as you can to make the entire faction look like it was created by a team of five year olds.

If you don't get Orks, then you don't get 40k. They're one of the few things still relatively true to the original source material as the game has evolved, and provide some often much needed humbling to many factions in the game.

And in case you haven't noticed, 40k is practically nothing *but* importations from everything else. We have Space C'thulu's, Space Knights, Space Elves (yes, Eldar were called that once), HR Geiger Aliens, Space Werewolves, etc. 40k is a Fantasy-In-SPAAAAAAAAAACE game, always has been. There's humongous importations of stuff from Dune, Starship Troopers, C'thulu mythos, Star Wars, Age of Sail stuff, Conan, etc.

while everything may be imported, they are not named as such. And Orks are the only race that has retained this nonsense.

If you want to nit-pick, then not exactly. WHB has Orcs, W40K has Orks.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Coolyo294 wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:who are the space cthulus, Necrons?

I'd say that Chaos is more of a Lovecraftian entity then Necrons.

what about the C'tan? They're likened to the mythos quite often, it seems.

Good point, but I think that Chaos is more Lovecraftian sheerly because it has cults. You can't be a Lovecraftian entity without a vicious cult worshipping you.

Coolyo294 wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Coolyo294 wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:who are the space cthulus, Necrons?

I'd say that Chaos is more of a Lovecraftian entity then Necrons.

what about the C'tan? They're likened to the mythos quite often, it seems.

Good point, but I think that Chaos is more Lovecraftian sheerly because it has cults. You can't be a Lovecraftian entity without a vicious cult worshipping you.

Errr Ad Mech? Void Dragon of Mars?

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Coolyo294 wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Coolyo294 wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:who are the space cthulus, Necrons?

I'd say that Chaos is more of a Lovecraftian entity then Necrons.

what about the C'tan? They're likened to the mythos quite often, it seems.

Good point, but I think that Chaos is more Lovecraftian sheerly because it has cults. You can't be a Lovecraftian entity without a vicious cult worshipping you.

Errr Ad Mech? Void Dragon of Mars?

But that's only one small section of the Mechanicus. The Cults of Chaos are much larger and widespread.

Coolyo294 wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Coolyo294 wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Coolyo294 wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:who are the space cthulus, Necrons?

I'd say that Chaos is more of a Lovecraftian entity then Necrons.

what about the C'tan? They're likened to the mythos quite often, it seems.

Good point, but I think that Chaos is more Lovecraftian sheerly because it has cults. You can't be a Lovecraftian entity without a vicious cult worshipping you.

Errr Ad Mech? Void Dragon of Mars?

But that's only one small section of the Mechanicus. The Cults of Chaos are much larger and widespread.

Ah, good point. Still an awesome idea though. Hope it finds it's way into the codex. Skitarri meatshield FTW!

Any back on topic, It would be the craftworld Eldar irk me the most. The new GK come close, for being a bunch of Mary Sues.

Dark Eldar, I can never get a clean victory vs them.

KilroyKiljoy wrote:

Flaming_Spider wrote:

Vaktathi wrote:

Flaming_Spider wrote:Orks. I hate Orks. I hate their look, I hate their fluff, I hate their play style. There isn't anything that I like about Orks, I would be a far happier person if they were removed from 40k altogether, and never seen again.
I don't believe they have any place in the setting, and are just here for comedic relief. While comedic relief is ok, when there is an entire race/faction based around it, I start to get annoyed. Nothing about their codex can be taken seriously.
Now, the concept itself is an excellent one, I just think that the naming and fluff is all wrong. Instead of Orks, come up with something original, like EVERY other race in the game. Give them a name from the setting, and don't import one from virtually every other fantasy/sci-fi game in existence. Unit names are ridiculous as well. Boyz. Seriously? And spelling everything as wrong as possible just makes it worse.
I like the idea of an unstoppable horde of war loving monsters, that's cool, but they need to be taken seriously. Come up with some truly original names, spell them correctly, and don't try as hard as you can to make the entire faction look like it was created by a team of five year olds.

If you don't get Orks, then you don't get 40k. They're one of the few things still relatively true to the original source material as the game has evolved, and provide some often much needed humbling to many factions in the game.

And in case you haven't noticed, 40k is practically nothing *but* importations from everything else. We have Space C'thulu's, Space Knights, Space Elves (yes, Eldar were called that once), HR Geiger Aliens, Space Werewolves, etc. 40k is a Fantasy-In-SPAAAAAAAAAACE game, always has been. There's humongous importations of stuff from Dune, Starship Troopers, C'thulu mythos, Star Wars, Age of Sail stuff, Conan, etc.

while everything may be imported, they are not named as such. And Orks are the only race that has retained this nonsense.

If you want to nit-pick, then not exactly. WHB has Orcs, W40K has Orks.

I agree with the idea that Orks are as quintessential as Space Marines to 40k.

Space Marines is not an original name. GW just dropped the Colonial part of Colonial Space Marines from the Alien series. Eldar is the name of one of the Elvish lines in the Tolkien Mythos. Necron, Tyranids and Ultramarines are all completely uninspired and unimaginative names. Nothing in 40k is particularly original, it's just a fun(fun being the keyword, which you seem to have a problem with) mishmash of different influences to give background to a game.

If orks aren't grimdark enough for you you should probably just buy a couple boxes of Malifuax models and lock yourself in your room with your Sisters of Mercy cds.

Oakenshield wrote:

KilroyKiljoy wrote:

Flaming_Spider wrote:

Vaktathi wrote:

Flaming_Spider wrote:Orks. I hate Orks. I hate their look, I hate their fluff, I hate their play style. There isn't anything that I like about Orks, I would be a far happier person if they were removed from 40k altogether, and never seen again.
I don't believe they have any place in the setting, and are just here for comedic relief. While comedic relief is ok, when there is an entire race/faction based around it, I start to get annoyed. Nothing about their codex can be taken seriously.
Now, the concept itself is an excellent one, I just think that the naming and fluff is all wrong. Instead of Orks, come up with something original, like EVERY other race in the game. Give them a name from the setting, and don't import one from virtually every other fantasy/sci-fi game in existence. Unit names are ridiculous as well. Boyz. Seriously? And spelling everything as wrong as possible just makes it worse.
I like the idea of an unstoppable horde of war loving monsters, that's cool, but they need to be taken seriously. Come up with some truly original names, spell them correctly, and don't try as hard as you can to make the entire faction look like it was created by a team of five year olds.

If you don't get Orks, then you don't get 40k. They're one of the few things still relatively true to the original source material as the game has evolved, and provide some often much needed humbling to many factions in the game.

And in case you haven't noticed, 40k is practically nothing *but* importations from everything else. We have Space C'thulu's, Space Knights, Space Elves (yes, Eldar were called that once), HR Geiger Aliens, Space Werewolves, etc. 40k is a Fantasy-In-SPAAAAAAAAAACE game, always has been. There's humongous importations of stuff from Dune, Starship Troopers, C'thulu mythos, Star Wars, Age of Sail stuff, Conan, etc.

while everything may be imported, they are not named as such. And Orks are the only race that has retained this nonsense.

If you want to nit-pick, then not exactly. WHB has Orcs, W40K has Orks.

I agree with the idea that Orks are as quintessential as Space Marines to 40k.

Space Marines is not an original name. GW just dropped the Colonial part of Colonial Space Marines from the Alien series. Eldar is the name of one of the Elvish lines in the Tolkien Mythos. Necron, Tyranids and Ultramarines are all completely uninspired and unimaginative names. Nothing in 40k is particularly original, it's just a fun(fun being the keyword, which you seem to have a problem with) mishmash of different influences to give background to a game.

If orks aren't grimdark enough for you you should probably just buy a couple boxes of Malifuax models and lock yourself in your room with your Sisters of Mercy cds.

Hahaha. That comment made me laugh. I love Malifaux.

Anyway, I wasn't saying fun should be abolished, I take no issue with it, and I wasn't saying everything in 40k is completely original. All I was trying to say is that I wished Orks took itself a little more seriously, as opposed to being a giant joke.

Thats kind of the point,

It's all fun and games until someone loses a head

You CAN play less wacky orks. Play a Goff horde doing the green version of nazi storm troopers, with black vehicles and regimented troops. Goffs have no sense of humour

Orks are much less of a joke if you avoid the wackier random units, and run them as a darker, cruder version of the third Reich or Stalin's USSR ...

I run a multi-clan army, but i've seen a brilliant painting and conversion ork army done up as WW2 german, which they already have a heavy dose of in the background and models if you look closely, especially the older ones.