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Jimsolo wrote:Chaos. Specifically, Chaos Marines. They have very little in the way of logic to justify their motivations or their methods of operation.

You're talking about the forces of Chaos, why on earth would logic have anything to do with that?

However, that said, there is some logic, especially for the non-cult legions. Many see themselves as the betrayed rather than the betrayers, they see it was their efforts, their blood and their sacrifice that built what turned out to be a lie while others reaped all the reward and they (percieve) that when no longer needed they were brutally betrayed, and the only purpose and point to their existence is revenge as they know nothing but war and battle.

Grey Templar wrote:

Thats like saying that Slavery in the United States was all the greedy white land owner's fault. Everyone forgets the Muslim slave traders who actually supplied slaves and had been doing so for hundreds of years.

Which is in turn is somewhat ridiculous. Yeah, that slave trade existed, it's not exactly forgotten over there, and still exists to some extent, but it doesn't mean that the plantation owners in the US weren't aware of what they were buying and what they were doing with such people and going out of their way to come up with every imagineable justification to continue that state of affairs long after importation was ceased.






The faction that used to annoy me the most was SM's in general. Still do to some extent. There's a lot of wankery going on with SM fluff that's taken them from the techy-looking psychoindoctrinated xenophobic super soldier warrior monk to the Knight in Shining Space Armor with UltraMarySue(tm) superpowers and more and more medieval looking armor & accessories.

However, even after that, the specific fluff for each successive marine release has become sillier, crossing the line from "badass" to "bad internet fanfiction/8 year old's comic stories". Space Wolves however I think take the cake. Between an incredibly abuseable army list where just about all the primary units of the army seem to be "like other marines...but BETTER! and CHEAPER!...and with MORE OPTIONS!" and awful naming conventions hammered to the point of nausea, and confused/contradictory fluff where they can't decide if they want to be Space Pranksters, Tough Guys with Hearts of Gold, GrimDark Vikings, Brooding Executioners, Space Berzerekers, or Drunken Bards, the faction is just...awful.

Void__Dragon wrote:
The Chaos Gods were deliberately blocking and shrouding his foresight.

Wait.... How can they do that if you said multiple times that they don't have free will?

You know the Emperor protects the Tau...

Brother Coa wrote:Wait.... How can they do that if you said multiple times that they don't have free will?

They are sentient, to an extent.

But their nature, their very existence, is determined by mortals. That is why I don't think they have true free will, only the illusion of it.

The only factions I dislike are non-Nightlord CSM, Orks, tyranids, SOB, Dark Angels, GK and Black Templars.

Other than that, I like all the other factions, even the minor ones. A lot.

I either love or hate any factions, I am never "kinda alright" with any factions.

Having read only a limited amount of fluff, I was curious to know if anyone else gets frustrated with any particular 40k faction, and what makes them so annoying.

No specific in-universe factions... but definitely some of their real-world fans.

Eldar and Freaking Nids.

Nids and Necrons. Both are typically used as fodder, and since their threat is an integral part of their identity, they end up feeling hollow and unfinished. When a Tyranid invasion arrives at a planet, it should be the next freaking apocalypse, not practice for the Hydras. Necrons are treated with more dignity, but they still tend to get their bumper stickers handed to them.

At least the other antagonists all have more of a character, so when they lose I still enjoyed reading about them. Bugs and robots are supposedly two of the most powerful and fear-inducing factions, but the fiction never shows it.

Also, I wish Black Library authors wouldn't default to the Mechanicus all the time for traitors and weak links. "Oh look, another unstable machine priest. Guess how long it'll take before he gets someone killed!"

Squats. I can't believe some people actually want them back.

nomotog wrote:So the eldar we see now are like Amish elder? (If you know who the Amish are)

But seriously, actually you could say there are many similarities. Of course they are not the same, but some of the principles are there actually.
All my knowledge of Amish comes from movies and the internets so I may not have a proper view on them.

Brother Coa wrote:The difference is that Eldar are like that from the very beginning, and Humanity became like that after every alien race ( except Tau ) tried to eradicate them ( Age of Strife ). And I know Imperium are racist, I was talking about Humanity. And seeing how individuals act sometimes I would say that not all of Humanity is racist toward aliens. While all Eldar are.

Seriously? You are so biased that you make up such wrong statements? Still, no comment about being jerks vs exterminating other races. I seriously chuckle at how subjective this view is.
We kill them because we are better, we are OK. They think they are better and are arrogant, those idiots!

Brother Coa wrote:Quite, just see DoW II campaign.
Idranel: We shall destroy that Human world of Meridian and then the Hive Fleet wll turn around and Ulthve will be spared.
Random Eldar: But why wouldn't we ally ourselves with Humans? It seems that they are planing on making weapon against Tyranids, a weapon that can be used...
Idranel: No, because that would be un-Eldar behavior. Besides, my vision showed me that we shall be victorious!!!

And we all know what happened in the end...

Actually I didn't know how this ended. Never finished DoW2 and just played it a bit. But you are right. One wrong Eldar in a Space Marine oriented game. How shocking and not a plot armour at all!
Because you know, it would make a great game where they would ally themselves and you couldn't fight Eldar. Even better - alliance with Orks too. Yes, let's make a game where you have many alliances and not many enemies. Our enemies will be logical, smart and they will see their wrong-doings. Everybody will love this game.

Brother Coa wrote:This was epic fail for Eldars. I mean, Eldrad saw that Horus was fallen but failed to see that Fulgrim has fallen to?
And when Fulgrim slaughter his warriors he tought that Imperium ahs done that?

Epic fail for a race that can see into the future...

I see even Horus Heresy, is fail on Eldar part. Half of space marines turned to chaos. Primarchs forged and created to be rays of hope for humanity turning to chaos. Huge war, bloodshed, destruction, treachery.
One Eldar trying to warn the humans and not foreseeing everything. Not a single Primarch or even the great Emperor had any idea what is happening. Epic fail on Eldar part indeed.

Can't you see that it's YOU who pointed out two Eldar who tried to help or ally with humans and yet you still think they are much, much more racist towards IoM than the other way around. Some inconsistency with the part I bolded? Can you give me a quote of a Space Marine suggesting alliance with Eldar in DoW2? But yeah. Some Eldar thinking about alliance with humans - all Eldar are bad. Space Marines just killing any Eldar they came upon - IoM is good.
Even your signature is "racist" towards other races Can you be more biased?

Psienesis wrote:

Having read only a limited amount of fluff, I was curious to know if anyone else gets frustrated with any particular 40k faction, and what makes them so annoying.

No specific in-universe factions... but definitely some of their real-world fans.

Generally this.

Void__Dragon wrote:
They are sentient, to an extent.

But their nature, their very existence, is determined by mortals. That is why I don't think they have true free will, only the illusion of it.

No not at all ( sarcasm ).
They just instrumented the greatest civil war in the galaxy, turning a son against his father.
They probably instrumented Fall of the Eldar to ( aldo we have no info about that ).

Don't be fulled, they are truly sentient. Our emotions are only like a fuel to them, and my sentience is not dependable on a food or water I am eating.
Why are different emotions affecting different Chaos God, who knows? But I can assure you that they are very intelligent beings who use every trickery in the book to sway mortal souls to their side.

But your opinion is your opinion and I will respect that.

Glowcat wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:Definitly Eldar.

For a Race that did the most to screw the Galaxy over, they sure are snooty and arrogant little .

That's not exactly fair. The Eldar who are the snootiest are those of the Craftworlds which didn't spiral into decadence along with their empire. The Dark Eldar were the ones who screwed everything up and then threw another crazy party afterwords.

QFT.

My least favourite race has to be either SW or BA. I simply cannot stand all the s*** involved in these armies. SW are worse admittedly, but BA are just... grrrrrr.

Macok wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:The difference is that Eldar are like that from the very beginning, and Humanity became like that after every alien race ( except Tau ) tried to eradicate them ( Age of Strife ). And I know Imperium are racist, I was talking about Humanity. And seeing how individuals act sometimes I would say that not all of Humanity is racist toward aliens. While all Eldar are.

Seriously? You are so biased that you make up such wrong statements? Still, no comment about being jerks vs exterminating other races. I seriously chuckle at how subjective this view is.
We kill them because we are better, we are OK. They think they are better and are arrogant, those idiots!

Brother Coa wrote:Quite, just see DoW II campaign.
Idranel: We shall destroy that Human world of Meridian and then the Hive Fleet wll turn around and Ulthve will be spared.
Random Eldar: But why wouldn't we ally ourselves with Humans? It seems that they are planing on making weapon against Tyranids, a weapon that can be used...
Idranel: No, because that would be un-Eldar behavior. Besides, my vision showed me that we shall be victorious!!!

And we all know what happened in the end...

Actually I didn't know how this ended. Never finished DoW2 and just played it a bit. But you are right. One wrong Eldar in a Space Marine oriented game. How shocking and not a plot armour at all!
Because you know, it would make a great game where they would ally themselves and you couldn't fight Eldar. Even better - alliance with Orks too. Yes, let's make a game where you have many alliances and not many enemies. Our enemies will be logical, smart and they will see their wrong-doings. Everybody will love this game.

Brother Coa wrote:This was epic fail for Eldars. I mean, Eldrad saw that Horus was fallen but failed to see that Fulgrim has fallen to?
And when Fulgrim slaughter his warriors he tought that Imperium ahs done that?

Epic fail for a race that can see into the future...

I see even Horus Heresy, is fail on Eldar part. Half of space marines turned to chaos. Primarchs forged and created to be rays of hope for humanity turning to chaos. Huge war, bloodshed, destruction, treachery.
One Eldar trying to warn the humans and not foreseeing everything. Not a single Primarch or even the great Emperor had any idea what is happening. Epic fail on Eldar part indeed.

Can't you see that it's YOU who pointed out two Eldar who tried to help or ally with Humans and yet you still think they are much, much more racist towards IoM than the other way around. Some inconsistency with the part I bolded?

Seriously, to argue with an Eldar fan. Everything I will say you will just ignore...

But to conclude:
a) Eldar are racist, Humans are racist to. But Humans will join some factions, some individuals would probably fight to protect it ( Sturnn in Winter Assault ). When did you heard about the Eldar saving a Human world or a colony? Or putting it's life on a line to protect Humans or any other being? ( Kraken doesn't count even if they probably saved hundreds of Imperial and non-Imperial Worlds on a cost of their own Craftworld, they were just in a way of Hive Fleet and couldn't run away... ).
b) I never said Horus Heresy was Eldar fault, but it was their fail not being able to foresee the future ( like they know how to do that, mostly that "visions of the future" get's them all killed and turn on completely different ). They were able to see Horus falling, but they weren't able to see others? An instead they rushed to Terra they go to some backwater world and tried to spoke to a Fallen Primarch ( who carried a Daemon Sword - odd that they Eldar didn't sense Daemon in it ). And of course they tried to aid the Humans even if they hate them - because if Horus won entire galaxy would be one big Eye of Terror. And I doubt that even their Craftworlds would protect them in that hell world.
c) Eldar are a dying race, they should retreat to the edges of the galaxy and try to repopulate, to save their race and their civilization. But no.... ( sarcasm ), we all must fight and die because we are to proud to lay down and do nothing ( again - sarcasm ). Every other race would try to survive, but they chose not to ( even if they have a chance ) and they chose to fight a losing battle to the vey last of their own race. I am sorry but every race that put's pride ahead of survival don't deserve to live at all, life is a precious things and they throw them away like that ( don't mentioned Imperials in this, they are not the ones who are on edge of extinction ).

Can you give me a quote of a Space Marine suggesting alliance with Eldar in DoW2? But yeah. Some Eldar thinking about alliance with humans - all Eldar are bad. Space Marines just killing any Eldar they came upon - IoM is good.

Cyrus said in DoW 2 ( you would know this if you finished the game ) after they killed Eldar leader and summoned Avatar:
"If only the Eldar had pointed their wrath toward Hive Fleet..." Meaning that they would be willing to join forces with them, Eldar even had objective - to save their long last Craftworld on Typhon Primaris. But no - Eldar must be arogant and proud prick that they are not to join with Humans but to fight against them as well. And I wondered why Imperials don't trust them...

Even your signature is "racist" towards other races Can you be more biased?

And what is exactly racist there? And even if it is it's none of your god business.
I quoted the Kan's sentence about the Tau because some people are implementing that Tau are so awesome they can take Heven and Hell without a casualties.

I hate space wolves so much... that I'm starting to hate on vikings in general.

Brother Coa wrote:

Macok wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:The difference is that Eldar are like that from the very beginning, and Humanity became like that after every alien race ( except Tau ) tried to eradicate them ( Age of Strife ). And I know Imperium are racist, I was talking about Humanity. And seeing how individuals act sometimes I would say that not all of Humanity is racist toward aliens. While all Eldar are.

Seriously? You are so biased that you make up such wrong statements? Still, no comment about being jerks vs exterminating other races. I seriously chuckle at how subjective this view is.
We kill them because we are better, we are OK. They think they are better and are arrogant, those idiots!

Brother Coa wrote:Quite, just see DoW II campaign.
Idranel: We shall destroy that Human world of Meridian and then the Hive Fleet wll turn around and Ulthve will be spared.
Random Eldar: But why wouldn't we ally ourselves with Humans? It seems that they are planing on making weapon against Tyranids, a weapon that can be used...
Idranel: No, because that would be un-Eldar behavior. Besides, my vision showed me that we shall be victorious!!!

And we all know what happened in the end...

Actually I didn't know how this ended. Never finished DoW2 and just played it a bit. But you are right. One wrong Eldar in a Space Marine oriented game. How shocking and not a plot armour at all!
Because you know, it would make a great game where they would ally themselves and you couldn't fight Eldar. Even better - alliance with Orks too. Yes, let's make a game where you have many alliances and not many enemies. Our enemies will be logical, smart and they will see their wrong-doings. Everybody will love this game.

Brother Coa wrote:This was epic fail for Eldars. I mean, Eldrad saw that Horus was fallen but failed to see that Fulgrim has fallen to?
And when Fulgrim slaughter his warriors he tought that Imperium ahs done that?

Epic fail for a race that can see into the future...

I see even Horus Heresy, is fail on Eldar part. Half of space marines turned to chaos. Primarchs forged and created to be rays of hope for humanity turning to chaos. Huge war, bloodshed, destruction, treachery.
One Eldar trying to warn the humans and not foreseeing everything. Not a single Primarch or even the great Emperor had any idea what is happening. Epic fail on Eldar part indeed.

Can't you see that it's YOU who pointed out two Eldar who tried to help or ally with Humans and yet you still think they are much, much more racist towards IoM than the other way around. Some inconsistency with the part I bolded?

Seriously, to argue with an Eldar fan. Everything I will say you will just ignore...

But to conclude:
a) Eldar are racist, Humans are racist to. But Humans will join some factions, some individuals would probably fight to protect it ( Sturnn in Winter Assault ). When did you heard about the Eldar saving a Human world or a colony? Or putting it's life on a line to protect Humans or any other being? ( Kraken doesn't count even if they probably saved hundreds of Imperial and non-Imperial Worlds on a cost of their own Craftworld, they were just in a way of Hive Fleet and couldn't run away... ).
b) I never said Horus Heresy was Eldar fault, but it was their fail not being able to foresee the future ( like they know how to do that, mostly that "visions of the future" get's them all killed and turn on completely different ). They were able to see Horus falling, but they weren't able to see others? An instead they rushed to Terra they go to some backwater world and tried to spoke to a Fallen Primarch ( who carried a Daemon Sword - odd that they Eldar didn't sense Daemon in it ). And of course they tried to aid the Humans even if they hate them - because if Horus won entire galaxy would be one big Eye of Terror. And I doubt that even their Craftworlds would protect them in that hell world.
c) Eldar are a dying race, they should retreat to the edges of the galaxy and try to repopulate, to save their race and their civilization. But no.... ( sarcasm ), we all must fight and die because we are to proud to lay down and do nothing ( again - sarcasm ). Every other race would try to survive, but they chose not to ( even if they have a chance ) and they chose to fight a losing battle to the vey last of their own race. I am sorry but every race that put's pride ahead of survival don't deserve to live at all, life is a precious things and they throw them away like that ( don't mentioned Imperials in this, they are not the ones who are on edge of extinction ).

Can you give me a quote of a Space Marine suggesting alliance with Eldar in DoW2? But yeah. Some Eldar thinking about alliance with humans - all Eldar are bad. Space Marines just killing any Eldar they came upon - IoM is good.

Cyrus said in DoW 2 ( you would know this if you finished the game ) after they killed Eldar leader and summoned Avatar:
"If only the Eldar had pointed their wrath toward Hive Fleet..." Meaning that they would be willing to join forces with them, Eldar even had objective - to save their long last Craftworld on Typhon Primaris. But no - Eldar must be arogant and proud prick that they are not to join with Humans but to fight against them as well. And I wondered why Imperials don't trust them...

Even your signature is "racist" towards other races Can you be more biased?

And what is exactly racist there? And even if it is it's none of your god business.
I quoted the Kan's sentence about the Tau because some people are implementing that Tau are so awesome they can take Heven and Hell without a casualties.

You are basing all your arguments on a single videogame, DOW II. Don't you think that's a bit limited. Eldar are arrogant and cocky yes, but definately not as racist as the IoM. And you can't call me an Eldar fanboy because I play both.

Whilst Eldar are racist and trying to manipulate other races to ensure their survival, you don't exactly see them embarking on raging crusades (like the BT) to kill everything that isn't of their race. The IoM is all about being xenophobic and racist, I mean "purge the xenos"? Can't get much clearer than that. Eldar just say "we will use the lesser races to ensure that we survive for a bit longer".

And the Eldar are just arrogant because they're bitter about their fate. they hate to see how their noble ancestors (not the fall guys, way before that), once ruled the galaxy and that they have fallen so low that they cannot stop what they deem to be lesser races from taking the galaxy for themselves. Notably the IoM.

Lets not forget that the IoM and Eldar still sometimes join forces against a common enemy. No matter what DoWII may say.

Lord Rogukiel wrote:
You are basing all your arguments on a single videogame, DOW II. Don't you think that's a bit limited. Eldar are arrogant and cocky yes, but definately not as racist as the IoM. And you can't call me an Eldar fanboy because I play both.

Whilst Eldar are racist and trying to manipulate other races to ensure their survival, you don't exactly see them embarking on raging crusades (like the BT) to kill everything that isn't of their race. The IoM is all about being xenophobic and racist, I mean "purge the xenos"? Can't get much clearer than that. Eldar just say "we will use the lesser races to ensure that we survive for a bit longer".

And the Eldar are just arrogant because they're bitter about their fate. they hate to see how their noble ancestors (not the fall guys, way before that), once ruled the galaxy and that they have fallen so low that they cannot stop what they deem to be lesser races from taking the galaxy for themselves. Notably the IoM.

Lets not forget that the IoM and Eldar still sometimes join forces against a common enemy. No matter what DoWII may say.

No, I am basing my argument on a Eldar race as a whole. But the truth is, even dough Eldar are racist - Human hate is much more bigger than theirs...
And in DoW II Humans were willing to join with the Eldar, but Eldar didn't bother and just attacked...
And you can't call my views limited because I am Eldar fan to. Even dough they are racist and arrogant to the end, I am amazed at their determination to fight even dough they are dying. And they are also battling against Chaos, and even sometimes join with Humans to beat them together. I am annoyed by their arrogance, and not just theirs - Imperial one to. But I love both factions.

@Brother Coa
I am Eldar fan, so what? I also like IoM, but I'm not going to bluntly state something as wrong as "Eldar are more racist than IoM".
IoM is known for purging and exterminating many alien races. That has been stated many times and is a common knowledge. Can you say the same about Eldar? Can you in fact say they've exterminated *one* race? But you still somehow try to say that Eldar are more racist just because they are gratuitously not helping others?

And ignore? I personally thought I was too nitpicky.. What exactly did I ignore..? It is you who is ignoring the fact that extermination is worse than just being high and mighty.

And your DoW2 example proved what? That neither race went to the other and said: "Hey! Let's stop fighting and battle Tyranid together." Is it Eldar fault? Yes. But you ignore the fact that it is also SM fault because they didn't do it either. All blame is put on the Eldar, but why? They acted exactly the same.

And for a person who quotes "Pain is temporary, honor is forever" you are bashing Eldar because they are too proud?
You do have a "pansy elf, magic mushroom, or commie frog" quote and say you don't like a race for thinking lowly of other races?

a) How about 13th crusade. And when did you hear about IoM saving any Eldar colony? Or any xeno colony in fact. Because you know, "purge the xeno scum" says quite clearly who is the biggest xenophobic race in 40k.
b) Again, not even Primachs could sense those corruptions. Where Eldrad failed, IoM failed 100 times more.
c) There is no safe edge of galaxy. There is no magical place in wh40k where you can just go and be happy forever. They have to fight because there is no other choice in this world. At least all their efforts are made to not be devoured by Slaanesh. One of the biggest IoM's policy is to exterminate xenos. Somehow still Eldar are the racist ones.

What you fail to understand that given the chance Eldar would not fight humans. They gain nothing from this fight. IoM on the other hand is so xenophobic that given the chance they would wipe out all the xenos.

Edit: Hmmm.. Somehow I missed your post.. Just to be precise, I am not trying to start a war here, or be a jackass. I think that IoM's policy towards other races should stay, it gives this world something interesting going on. It's just that somehow I think that the view of wh40k is taken only from human perspective. Whenever the chance I like to defend the 'underdogs' in this setting. I also hope that I didn't sound rude or like a jackass. I've been told I sound much more aggressive on the internet. That is not what I intend to do.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say the ravens didnt ask for help because...erm...they're freaking Space Marines; they're "above" asking for xeno help, the eldar, while arrogant, are not...at least entirely

Brother Coa wrote:

Void__Dragon wrote:
They are sentient, to an extent.

But their nature, their very existence, is determined by mortals. That is why I don't think they have true free will, only the illusion of it.

No not at all ( sarcasm ).
They just instrumented the greatest civil war in the galaxy, turning a son against his father.
They probably instrumented Fall of the Eldar to ( aldo we have no info about that ).

Don't be fulled, they are truly sentient. Our emotions are only like a fuel to them, and my sentience is not dependable on a food or water I am eating.
Why are different emotions affecting different Chaos God, who knows? But I can assure you that they are very intelligent beings who use every trickery in the book to sway mortal souls to their side.

But your opinion is your opinion and I will respect that.

Agree with MOST of what you said, but the Horus Heresy was not the greatest civil war in the galaxy.

The Fall was bigger.

The Men of Iron was bigger.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@ Macok, Eldar are the underdogs? You ARE aware of the Tau, right?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Lord Rogukiel wrote:

Glowcat wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:Definitly Eldar.

For a Race that did the most to screw the Galaxy over, they sure are snooty and arrogant little .

That's not exactly fair. The Eldar who are the snootiest are those of the Craftworlds which didn't spiral into decadence along with their empire. The Dark Eldar were the ones who screwed everything up and then threw another crazy party afterwords.

QFT.

My least favourite race has to be either SW or BA. I simply cannot stand all the s*** involved in these armies. SW are worse admittedly, but BA are just... grrrrrr.

*ahem*

FLYING LIBRARIAN DREADNOUGHTS AND LONG FANG SPAM! hate the armies on the tt, but don't mind the fluff, really.

Bugs. There fluff is just plain stupid. Giant space bugs that came from another galaxy to eat us..
And te fluff that there is no way for the Galaxy to defeat them. laaaaame.

I take it you didn't like Independence day, or the various movies on the same theme that came before that

Similar shtick.

All you need is the biological equivilent of an Apple laptop and we're good


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, all the armies are undefeatable/going to take over the galaxy/ continuously expanding in this setting..

Except the Tau

And the Imperium. They are losing ground, losing their grasp on technology and losing the Emperor (it's hinted..not fact) but somehow still winnign almost every recorded battle? THAT's lame.

Then again, it's the IOM doing the recording..so likely a lot of stuff is on the cutting room floor

Macok wrote:There is no safe edge of galaxy. There is no magical place in wh40k where you can just go and be happy forever.

Halo Zone?
Halo Stars?

Brother Coa wrote:

Macok wrote:There is no safe edge of galaxy. There is no magical place in wh40k where you can just go and be happy forever.

Halo Zone?
Halo Stars?

A group of dead stars outside of the Emperor's light that could be inhabited by deadly creatures, perfectly safe.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

im2randomghgh wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:

Void__Dragon wrote:
They are sentient, to an extent.

But their nature, their very existence, is determined by mortals. That is why I don't think they have true free will, only the illusion of it.

No not at all ( sarcasm ).
They just instrumented the greatest civil war in the galaxy, turning a son against his father.
They probably instrumented Fall of the Eldar to ( aldo we have no info about that ).

Don't be fulled, they are truly sentient. Our emotions are only like a fuel to them, and my sentience is not dependable on a food or water I am eating.
Why are different emotions affecting different Chaos God, who knows? But I can assure you that they are very intelligent beings who use every trickery in the book to sway mortal souls to their side.

But your opinion is your opinion and I will respect that.

Agree with MOST of what you said, but the Horus Heresy was not the greatest civil war in the galaxy.

The Fall was bigger.

The Men of Iron was bigger.

Hmm. The Fall wasn't a civil war but ok.
The Men of Iron has nearly no information regarding it. All we know is that it was a war between humanity and sapient machines that humanity won. In terms of how the galaxy was affected, the Heresy is by far the most important.

iproxtaco wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:

Macok wrote:There is no safe edge of galaxy. There is no magical place in wh40k where you can just go and be happy forever.

Halo Zone?
Halo Stars?

A group of dead stars outside of the Emperor's light that could be inhabited by deadly creatures, perfectly safe.

Dead Stars?
Halo Zone is zone of stars that are beyond light of Astronomicon. There is even saying that some alien civilizations already exist there..
Halo Stars are stars on the edge of the galaxy. I imagine that most of them are inhabited by feral Orks, some of them may be lost Human colonies. But I imagine that fairly great number of them is safe to some extend ( and Eldar have advanced tech, why should they be feared of local wild creatures ).

The only dead star I know in the galaxy are one in galactic center, the most new stars are formed in center and on the edge were the clusters of gas are located.

[Mod Edit - Please do not use that word as a pejorative here on Dakka Dakka - thanks!] knights:

Reason:

Why bother making an army which penalises another army, for "the fluff" I find it a chore to fight them because of this.

Brother Coa wrote:

Macok wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:The difference is that Eldar are like that from the very beginning, and Humanity became like that after every alien race ( except Tau ) tried to eradicate them ( Age of Strife ). And I know Imperium are racist, I was talking about Humanity. And seeing how individuals act sometimes I would say that not all of Humanity is racist toward aliens. While all Eldar are.

Seriously? You are so biased that you make up such wrong statements? Still, no comment about being jerks vs exterminating other races. I seriously chuckle at how subjective this view is.
We kill them because we are better, we are OK. They think they are better and are arrogant, those idiots!

Brother Coa wrote:Quite, just see DoW II campaign.
Idranel: We shall destroy that Human world of Meridian and then the Hive Fleet wll turn around and Ulthve will be spared.
Random Eldar: But why wouldn't we ally ourselves with Humans? It seems that they are planing on making weapon against Tyranids, a weapon that can be used...
Idranel: No, because that would be un-Eldar behavior. Besides, my vision showed me that we shall be victorious!!!

And we all know what happened in the end...

Actually I didn't know how this ended. Never finished DoW2 and just played it a bit. But you are right. One wrong Eldar in a Space Marine oriented game. How shocking and not a plot armour at all!
Because you know, it would make a great game where they would ally themselves and you couldn't fight Eldar. Even better - alliance with Orks too. Yes, let's make a game where you have many alliances and not many enemies. Our enemies will be logical, smart and they will see their wrong-doings. Everybody will love this game.

Brother Coa wrote:This was epic fail for Eldars. I mean, Eldrad saw that Horus was fallen but failed to see that Fulgrim has fallen to?
And when Fulgrim slaughter his warriors he tought that Imperium ahs done that?

Epic fail for a race that can see into the future...

I see even Horus Heresy, is fail on Eldar part. Half of space marines turned to chaos. Primarchs forged and created to be rays of hope for humanity turning to chaos. Huge war, bloodshed, destruction, treachery.
One Eldar trying to warn the humans and not foreseeing everything. Not a single Primarch or even the great Emperor had any idea what is happening. Epic fail on Eldar part indeed.

Can't you see that it's YOU who pointed out two Eldar who tried to help or ally with Humans and yet you still think they are much, much more racist towards IoM than the other way around. Some inconsistency with the part I bolded?

Seriously, to argue with an Eldar fan. Everything I will say you will just ignore...

But to conclude:
a) Eldar are racist, Humans are racist to. But Humans will join some factions, some individuals would probably fight to protect it ( Sturnn in Winter Assault ). When did you heard about the Eldar saving a Human world or a colony? Or putting it's life on a line to protect Humans or any other being? ( Kraken doesn't count even if they probably saved hundreds of Imperial and non-Imperial Worlds on a cost of their own Craftworld, they were just in a way of Hive Fleet and couldn't run away... ).
b) I never said Horus Heresy was Eldar fault, but it was their fail not being able to foresee the future ( like they know how to do that, mostly that "visions of the future" get's them all killed and turn on completely different ). They were able to see Horus falling, but they weren't able to see others? An instead they rushed to Terra they go to some backwater world and tried to spoke to a Fallen Primarch ( who carried a Daemon Sword - odd that they Eldar didn't sense Daemon in it ). And of course they tried to aid the Humans even if they hate them - because if Horus won entire galaxy would be one big Eye of Terror. And I doubt that even their Craftworlds would protect them in that hell world.
c) Eldar are a dying race, they should retreat to the edges of the galaxy and try to repopulate, to save their race and their civilization. But no.... ( sarcasm ), we all must fight and die because we are to proud to lay down and do nothing ( again - sarcasm ). Every other race would try to survive, but they chose not to ( even if they have a chance ) and they chose to fight a losing battle to the vey last of their own race. I am sorry but every race that put's pride ahead of survival don't deserve to live at all, life is a precious things and they throw them away like that ( don't mentioned Imperials in this, they are not the ones who are on edge of extinction ).

Can you give me a quote of a Space Marine suggesting alliance with Eldar in DoW2? But yeah. Some Eldar thinking about alliance with humans - all Eldar are bad. Space Marines just killing any Eldar they came upon - IoM is good.

Cyrus said in DoW 2 ( you would know this if you finished the game ) after they killed Eldar leader and summoned Avatar:
"If only the Eldar had pointed their wrath toward Hive Fleet..." Meaning that they would be willing to join forces with them, Eldar even had objective - to save their long last Craftworld on Typhon Primaris. But no - Eldar must be arogant and proud prick that they are not to join with Humans but to fight against them as well. And I wondered why Imperials don't trust them...

Even your signature is "racist" towards other races Can you be more biased?

And what is exactly racist there? And even if it is it's none of your god business.
I quoted the Kan's sentence about the Tau because some people are implementing that Tau are so awesome they can take Heven and Hell without a casualties.[/quote]

Ah I remember the days when I used to kick tau butt with CSM without losing a casualty...

Bwolf999 wrote:Bugs. There fluff is just plain stupid. Giant space bugs that came from another galaxy to eat us..
And te fluff that there is no way for the Galaxy to defeat them. laaaaame.

The fluff isn't laaaaame its just WAAC for WAAC players.

iproxtaco wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:

Macok wrote:There is no safe edge of galaxy. There is no magical place in wh40k where you can just go and be happy forever.

Halo Zone?
Halo Stars?

A group of dead stars outside of the Emperor's light that could be inhabited by deadly creatures, perfectly safe.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

im2randomghgh wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:

Void__Dragon wrote:
They are sentient, to an extent.

But their nature, their very existence, is determined by mortals. That is why I don't think they have true free will, only the illusion of it.

No not at all ( sarcasm ).
They just instrumented the greatest civil war in the galaxy, turning a son against his father.
They probably instrumented Fall of the Eldar to ( aldo we have no info about that ).

Don't be fulled, they are truly sentient. Our emotions are only like a fuel to them, and my sentience is not dependable on a food or water I am eating.
Why are different emotions affecting different Chaos God, who knows? But I can assure you that they are very intelligent beings who use every trickery in the book to sway mortal souls to their side.

But your opinion is your opinion and I will respect that.

Agree with MOST of what you said, but the Horus Heresy was not the greatest civil war in the galaxy.

The Fall was bigger.

The Men of Iron was bigger.

Hmm. The Fall wasn't a civil war but ok.
The Men of Iron has nearly no information regarding it. All we know is that it was a war between humanity and sapient machines that humanity won. In terms of how the galaxy was affected, the Heresy is by far the most important.

Okay, I admit that the fall wasn't a civil war AS SUCH, but it was still much bigger.

@ MoI: More lives were destroyed by the MoI uprising than during the HH. Imagine if every servitor in the galaxy went flying rodent gak crazy. Evil astartes aren't looking si bad now, are they?

Was it? I'm not entirely sure about that. It was one single event that killed off most of the Eldar, I'm not sure it was bigger or more important.

I'll say it again though, anything regarding the Men of Iron is speculation. It was a highly destructive war, yes, but numbers or its scale is not known.

iproxtaco wrote:Was it? I'm not entirely sure about that. It was one single event that killed off most of the Eldar, I'm not sure it was bigger or more important.

I'll say it again though, anything regarding the Men of Iron is speculation. It was a highly destructive war, yes, but numbers or its scale is not known.

it WAS more important, because it created a god. Without the power of this god added to the others, the HH COULDN'T have happened.

And numbers are also unknown for the HH, but the scale of the MOI was galactic. According to the note, they were used for each and every aspect of human life. They were the only military force commanded by humans other than the Pilots of ships and warmachines.

Brother Coa wrote:No not at all ( sarcasm ).
They just instrumented the greatest civil war in the galaxy, turning a son against his father.
They probably instrumented Fall of the Eldar to ( aldo we have no info about that ).

Don't be fulled, they are truly sentient. Our emotions are only like a fuel to them, and my sentience is not dependable on a food or water I am eating.
Why are different emotions affecting different Chaos God, who knows? But I can assure you that they are very intelligent beings who use every trickery in the book to sway mortal souls to their side.

But your opinion is your opinion and I will respect that.

The mortal races of the galaxy are so far below them that holding them morally responsible for killing them is like holding someone morally responsible for spraying disinfectent on a window. And frankly, the Emperor made it so pitifully easy for Chaos that it would almost be a crime for them not to of instigated the Horus Heresy. But beyond that, they didn't give much of a care about the galaxy before the Emperor threatened their power.

The Fall of the Eldar was the work of the Dark Eldar, no one else's.

Emotions created them, they are bound to them, shackled to them, defined by them. Nurgle and Tzeentch in particular are very far removed from mortal concepts of morality.

Brother Coa wrote:But the truth is, even dough Eldar are racist - Human hate is much more bigger than theirs...

Yet the Eldar are still more racist? Interesting...